Pricing
Pricing
I don't imagine that there are an awful lot of people who currently use cars to work that will be open to switching to the bus - there's likely a reason they started using a car in the first place. As has been said the cost for people will likely always be cheaper than running a car, however when folk need to start changing bus or when the bus takes twice the time a car does then no amount of USBs and tables will be of benefit.
The challenge, at least from my point of view, is getting people to use the buses for leisure in evenings and on weekends. More attractive evening ticket options are likely the best way to go about that - coupled with half decent evening frequencies. Weekends are easier to target - parking in Newcastle, for example, is horrendous when Newcastle are playing at home and people are more likely to want to have a drink on a weekend as well.
(03 Mar 2020, 2:37 pm)mb134 I don't imagine that there are an awful lot of people who currently use cars to work that will be open to switching to the bus - there's likely a reason they started using a car in the first place. As has been said the cost for people will likely always be cheaper than running a car, however when folk need to start changing bus or when the bus takes twice the time a car does then no amount of USBs and tables will be of benefit.
The challenge, at least from my point of view, is getting people to use the buses for leisure in evenings and on weekends. More attractive evening ticket options are likely the best way to go about that - coupled with half decent evening frequencies. Weekends are easier to target - parking in Newcastle, for example, is horrendous when Newcastle are playing at home and people are more likely to want to have a drink on a weekend as well.
(03 Mar 2020, 2:37 pm)mb134 I don't imagine that there are an awful lot of people who currently use cars to work that will be open to switching to the bus - there's likely a reason they started using a car in the first place. As has been said the cost for people will likely always be cheaper than running a car, however when folk need to start changing bus or when the bus takes twice the time a car does then no amount of USBs and tables will be of benefit.
The challenge, at least from my point of view, is getting people to use the buses for leisure in evenings and on weekends. More attractive evening ticket options are likely the best way to go about that - coupled with half decent evening frequencies. Weekends are easier to target - parking in Newcastle, for example, is horrendous when Newcastle are playing at home and people are more likely to want to have a drink on a weekend as well.
I completely agree, i have 2 routes in front of my house that can have me at the metrocentre in 36 mins. I would at this moment in time never use them. Its simply too expensive when you already have a car sat outside the house.
I genuinely do not believe that i would consider the bus to be a viable option into the metro/newcastle for leisure unless it was £1 each way, £2 at an absolute push. No way would that be commercially viable for any operator.
(03 Mar 2020, 2:52 pm)WheelBus1986 I completely agree, i have 2 routes in front of my house that can have me at the metrocentre in 36 mins. I would at this moment in time never use them. Its simply too expensive when you already have a car sat outside the house.
I genuinely do not believe that i would consider the bus to be a viable option into the metro/newcastle for leisure unless it was £1 each way, £2 at an absolute push. No way would that be commercially viable for any operator.
(03 Mar 2020, 2:52 pm)WheelBus1986 I completely agree, i have 2 routes in front of my house that can have me at the metrocentre in 36 mins. I would at this moment in time never use them. Its simply too expensive when you already have a car sat outside the house.
I genuinely do not believe that i would consider the bus to be a viable option into the metro/newcastle for leisure unless it was £1 each way, £2 at an absolute push. No way would that be commercially viable for any operator.
To be honest young people will never give up cars for buses, I was doing some digging and I saw that the red kite route used to have Omnicitys, to go from Omnicitys to Streetlites is a real downgrade and people notice these things, leather and WiFi can't disguise from the fact, the bus is noticeably smaller and more uncomfortable. There seems to be a heavy drinking culture up this way so I imagine weekend tickets is the way forward or some sort of promotion for clubbers is an avenue.
(03 Mar 2020, 8:06 pm)Big O To be honest young people will never give up cars for buses, I was doing some digging and I saw that the red kite route used to have Omnicitys, to go from Omnicitys to Streetlites is a real downgrade and people notice these things, leather and WiFi can't disguise from the fact, the bus is noticeably smaller and more uncomfortable. There seems to be a heavy drinking culture up this way so I imagine weekend tickets is the way forward or some sort of promotion for clubbers is an avenue.That's part of the reason for the introduction of the 24 hour tickets as well as the 5 for £5 in the evening type tickets.
(03 Mar 2020, 8:06 pm)Big O To be honest young people will never give up cars for buses, I was doing some digging and I saw that the red kite route used to have Omnicitys, to go from Omnicitys to Streetlites is a real downgrade and people notice these things, leather and WiFi can't disguise from the fact, the bus is noticeably smaller and more uncomfortable. There seems to be a heavy drinking culture up this way so I imagine weekend tickets is the way forward or some sort of promotion for clubbers is an avenue.That's part of the reason for the introduction of the 24 hour tickets as well as the 5 for £5 in the evening type tickets.
(03 Mar 2020, 3:05 pm)streetdeckfan If you already have the car, that's the major expense already covered (unless it's on finance). And I don't think many people would want to get rid of their car and switch to bus fully. If you have 2 cars, maybe selling one and travelling by bus would be viable as you would still have a car for 'emergencies'
What they need to focus on is getting young people to use the bus before they get a car. And in that respect, I think having high spec vehicles, with WiFi, USB charging, comfortable seats is the only option. If your only experience of a bus is what crap they use on scholars services, then you'd never want to travel by bus (I know because I was in that exact situation. After I left school, I didn't use the bus for a good year or two, until they started getting the Streetlites and I never used the X21 until they got the StreetDecks)
(03 Mar 2020, 3:05 pm)streetdeckfan If you already have the car, that's the major expense already covered (unless it's on finance). And I don't think many people would want to get rid of their car and switch to bus fully. If you have 2 cars, maybe selling one and travelling by bus would be viable as you would still have a car for 'emergencies'
What they need to focus on is getting young people to use the bus before they get a car. And in that respect, I think having high spec vehicles, with WiFi, USB charging, comfortable seats is the only option. If your only experience of a bus is what crap they use on scholars services, then you'd never want to travel by bus (I know because I was in that exact situation. After I left school, I didn't use the bus for a good year or two, until they started getting the Streetlites and I never used the X21 until they got the StreetDecks)
(03 Mar 2020, 9:07 pm)Andreos1 The costs for our cars are fixed.
There's only additional fuel that we need to pay for, as and when we need it.
As I've said repeatedly, I can charge my phone and listen to my music in the car.
EldestC passed his test last year and can do the same in his car even though its 10 years old. It takes him 10 mins to drive to see his girlfriend, rather than an hour and two buses.
MrsC has the same facilities in her car.
Three individuals that could switch a percentage of their journeys to public transport.
If it's not financially attractive to do so, then those percentage of journeys will be at the smaller end of the scale and that's with me having worked in transport and who classes himself as an enthusiast.
(03 Mar 2020, 9:07 pm)Andreos1 The costs for our cars are fixed.
There's only additional fuel that we need to pay for, as and when we need it.
As I've said repeatedly, I can charge my phone and listen to my music in the car.
EldestC passed his test last year and can do the same in his car even though its 10 years old. It takes him 10 mins to drive to see his girlfriend, rather than an hour and two buses.
MrsC has the same facilities in her car.
Three individuals that could switch a percentage of their journeys to public transport.
If it's not financially attractive to do so, then those percentage of journeys will be at the smaller end of the scale and that's with me having worked in transport and who classes himself as an enthusiast.
"The problem with reducing fares is that buses are very expensive to buy.
"So, if we're going to buy more of them, which is absolutely what we should be doing, then we do need help with funding for that"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-51791445
"The problem with reducing fares is that buses are very expensive to buy.
"So, if we're going to buy more of them, which is absolutely what we should be doing, then we do need help with funding for that"
(08 Mar 2020, 8:47 pm)Andreos1 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-51791445
Really?
Appreciate there isn't a public breakdown of how much profit was made in the North East last year, but there's detail of the group profit and revenue in this link.
https://www.go-ahead.com/media/press-rel...-june-2019
It's almost as if they're scraping down the back of the sofa for spare pound coins
(08 Mar 2020, 8:47 pm)Andreos1 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-51791445
Really?
Appreciate there isn't a public breakdown of how much profit was made in the North East last year, but there's detail of the group profit and revenue in this link.
https://www.go-ahead.com/media/press-rel...-june-2019
It's almost as if they're scraping down the back of the sofa for spare pound coins
(08 Mar 2020, 9:00 pm)streetdeckfan GNE haven't submitted their accounts for 2019 just yet, but in 2018 they made a profit of about £4 million after taxes
To put that in to perspective, they spent about £8 million on the StreetDecks that haven't arrived yet
Actually, reading a more, that's the year they bought EY, so I wonder if that's taken in to account. Frankly it's been far too long since I did my accountancy course to remember how to read them!
(08 Mar 2020, 9:00 pm)streetdeckfan GNE haven't submitted their accounts for 2019 just yet, but in 2018 they made a profit of about £4 million after taxes
To put that in to perspective, they spent about £8 million on the StreetDecks that haven't arrived yet
Actually, reading a more, that's the year they bought EY, so I wonder if that's taken in to account. Frankly it's been far too long since I did my accountancy course to remember how to read them!
Having travelled on the 21 to Chester-le-Street for a shopping visit to Tesco last week, I asked my Mother how much she reckoned it cost me to get from Barley Mow to Chester-le-Street.
She said £1.20. It's actually £2.30.
Her reaction: WHAT, to get to Chester!?
This is exactly why she uses her car, and I suspect many others. £2.30 for a 5 minute journey!
(14 Apr 2020, 8:22 am)LeeCalder Having travelled on the 21 to Chester-le-Street for a shopping visit to Tesco last week, I asked my Mother how much she reckoned it cost me to get from Barley Mow to Chester-le-Street.
She said £1.20. It's actually £2.30.
Her reaction: WHAT, to get to Chester!?
This is exactly why she uses her car, and I suspect many others. £2.30 for a 5 minute journey!
(14 Apr 2020, 8:22 am)LeeCalder Having travelled on the 21 to Chester-le-Street for a shopping visit to Tesco last week, I asked my Mother how much she reckoned it cost me to get from Barley Mow to Chester-le-Street.
She said £1.20. It's actually £2.30.
Her reaction: WHAT, to get to Chester!?
This is exactly why she uses her car, and I suspect many others. £2.30 for a 5 minute journey!
(14 Apr 2020, 12:19 pm)streetdeckfan As I understand it, it's not necessarily about the distance of the journey, but about how many fare stages it goes through (Is that the correct terminology?)
While I don't know exactly how it works, I believe the price is determined by how many main stops you pass, that's why if you look at your ticket the 'valid to' it may not necessarily be the stop you asked for. I don't know if it still works the same as I haven't bought a ticket in years, but the 'boarding stage' might be miles away from where you boarded as that would be the start of that 'stage'.
After a quick play around with the fare calculator, it seems you were just on the wrong edge of the fare stage as it's the same price from the far end of Birtley as it is from Barley Mow
Barley Mow to CLS ~1.5 miles £2.30
Birtley Coach and Horses to CLS ~3.3 miles also £2.30
It'd be quite interesting to see what is the furthest you can go for each ticket price, I'd imagine it would vary greatly by area!
To go from Bishop Auckland to West Auckland, for instance, which is a distance of ~4 miles is only £1.60
(14 Apr 2020, 12:19 pm)streetdeckfan As I understand it, it's not necessarily about the distance of the journey, but about how many fare stages it goes through (Is that the correct terminology?)
While I don't know exactly how it works, I believe the price is determined by how many main stops you pass, that's why if you look at your ticket the 'valid to' it may not necessarily be the stop you asked for. I don't know if it still works the same as I haven't bought a ticket in years, but the 'boarding stage' might be miles away from where you boarded as that would be the start of that 'stage'.
After a quick play around with the fare calculator, it seems you were just on the wrong edge of the fare stage as it's the same price from the far end of Birtley as it is from Barley Mow
Barley Mow to CLS ~1.5 miles £2.30
Birtley Coach and Horses to CLS ~3.3 miles also £2.30
It'd be quite interesting to see what is the furthest you can go for each ticket price, I'd imagine it would vary greatly by area!
To go from Bishop Auckland to West Auckland, for instance, which is a distance of ~4 miles is only £1.60
(14 Apr 2020, 12:37 pm)LeeCalder I'm well aware of how fare stages work, thanks...
Try telling that to a non-bus user and regardless of the explanation they'll still think it's too expensive.
(14 Apr 2020, 12:37 pm)LeeCalder I'm well aware of how fare stages work, thanks...
Try telling that to a non-bus user and regardless of the explanation they'll still think it's too expensive.
(14 Apr 2020, 12:46 pm)streetdeckfan Maybe if GNE published a fares table that showed how the tickets work it would be a lot less confusing!Its not so much the fare stages its also the luxury of wi fi. Tables.double decker with a view etc.
I've said many times in this topic that if you're just doing quick hop on-hop off journeys, buses aren't exactly the best value for money, but when you compare it to the full price of running a car (insurance, tax, fuel, depreciation etc.) they're still not 'expensive'.
Sure, if you already have a car then it may seem expensive, but if you don't have one, then it's still cheaper to pay the single ticket price, and if you use it regularly, it's waaay cheaper to buy a multi use ticket.
(14 Apr 2020, 12:46 pm)streetdeckfan Maybe if GNE published a fares table that showed how the tickets work it would be a lot less confusing!Its not so much the fare stages its also the luxury of wi fi. Tables.double decker with a view etc.
I've said many times in this topic that if you're just doing quick hop on-hop off journeys, buses aren't exactly the best value for money, but when you compare it to the full price of running a car (insurance, tax, fuel, depreciation etc.) they're still not 'expensive'.
Sure, if you already have a car then it may seem expensive, but if you don't have one, then it's still cheaper to pay the single ticket price, and if you use it regularly, it's waaay cheaper to buy a multi use ticket.
(14 Apr 2020, 12:46 pm)streetdeckfan Maybe if GNE published a fares table that showed how the tickets work it would be a lot less confusing!
I've said many times in this topic that if you're just doing quick hop on-hop off journeys, buses aren't exactly the best value for money, but when you compare it to the full price of running a car (insurance, tax, fuel, depreciation etc.) they're still not 'expensive'.
Sure, if you already have a car then it may seem expensive, but if you don't have one, then it's still cheaper to pay the single ticket price, and if you use it regularly, it's waaay cheaper to buy a multi use ticket.
(14 Apr 2020, 12:46 pm)streetdeckfan Maybe if GNE published a fares table that showed how the tickets work it would be a lot less confusing!
I've said many times in this topic that if you're just doing quick hop on-hop off journeys, buses aren't exactly the best value for money, but when you compare it to the full price of running a car (insurance, tax, fuel, depreciation etc.) they're still not 'expensive'.
Sure, if you already have a car then it may seem expensive, but if you don't have one, then it's still cheaper to pay the single ticket price, and if you use it regularly, it's waaay cheaper to buy a multi use ticket.
if someone tried to compare a bus journey of exactly the same route but one cost more (nearly 50% more) due to the bus being 5 years newer i shove the bread.........
if we are using that logic the new buses that are more fuel efficient should be dirt cheap.... and anyone who used the buses on the loop before they were getting replace should have been paying 50 quid a mile!
(14 Apr 2020, 5:12 pm)Rob44 if someone tried to compare a bus journey of exactly the same route but one cost more (nearly 50% more) due to the bus being 5 years newer i shove the bread.........
if we are using that logic the new buses that are more fuel efficient should be dirt cheap.... and anyone who used the buses on the loop before they were getting replace should have been paying 50 quid a mile!
(14 Apr 2020, 5:12 pm)Rob44 if someone tried to compare a bus journey of exactly the same route but one cost more (nearly 50% more) due to the bus being 5 years newer i shove the bread.........
if we are using that logic the new buses that are more fuel efficient should be dirt cheap.... and anyone who used the buses on the loop before they were getting replace should have been paying 50 quid a mile!
