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North East Buses Local Bus Scene Operations, Management & Infrastructure Nexus Tenders - May 2021

Nexus Tenders - May 2021

Nexus Tenders - May 2021

 
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Adrian



9,566
09 May 2021, 4:12 pm #81
(09 May 2021, 2:43 pm)Ambassador Let’s be honest here, nobody outside this group cares about the missed mileage, vehicle presentation or awful on board musical choices.

And why? Because these are barely used tendered routes used by low socio economic folk and of no economic value to anyone. They could complain but the routes are a nuisance, they don’t generate enough profit and in honesty the users are less likely to vocalise their complain.

It’s not right but it’s a sad truth.

Vehicle presentation and maybe musical choice I probably agree with you on, but I'd suggest that those waiting for the said bus would care about missed mileage. 

Under 'Bus back better', Local Authorities and PTEs have a key role to play in increasing patronage on buses. Poorly presented buses, I would suggest, does not encourage prolonged usage of the bus or for new customers to try the bus. Those travelling will be doing so out of necessity.

Some operators are trying extremely hard to improve the presentation of buses and to make them more appealing. Others are doing nothing.

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Adrian
09 May 2021, 4:12 pm #81

(09 May 2021, 2:43 pm)Ambassador Let’s be honest here, nobody outside this group cares about the missed mileage, vehicle presentation or awful on board musical choices.

And why? Because these are barely used tendered routes used by low socio economic folk and of no economic value to anyone. They could complain but the routes are a nuisance, they don’t generate enough profit and in honesty the users are less likely to vocalise their complain.

It’s not right but it’s a sad truth.

Vehicle presentation and maybe musical choice I probably agree with you on, but I'd suggest that those waiting for the said bus would care about missed mileage. 

Under 'Bus back better', Local Authorities and PTEs have a key role to play in increasing patronage on buses. Poorly presented buses, I would suggest, does not encourage prolonged usage of the bus or for new customers to try the bus. Those travelling will be doing so out of necessity.

Some operators are trying extremely hard to improve the presentation of buses and to make them more appealing. Others are doing nothing.


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09 May 2021, 4:58 pm #82
(09 May 2021, 2:43 pm)Ambassador Let’s be honest here, nobody outside this group cares about the missed mileage, vehicle presentation or awful on board musical choices.

And why? Because these are barely used tendered routes used by low socio economic folk and of no economic value to anyone. They could complain but the routes are a nuisance, they don’t generate enough profit and in honesty the users are less likely to vocalise their complain.

It’s not right but it’s a sad truth.

I'd argue those routes are just as important, if not more so than just about any commercial route, and having access to a reliable bus service is probably even more important for those 'low socio economic folk'. If my bus doesn't turn up and I need to be somewhere, I can easily afford to just get a taxi, or call someone for a lift. If that happens to somebody who doesn't have a lot of money, and doesn't have someone who can give them a lift at the drop of a hat, then they're up a creek!

What if the place they needed to get to was a hospital appointment, or even a job interview which would potentially allow them to afford to live somewhere better. Their entire existence basically depends on a lazy GCT driver not thinking "fuck it, they're just poor people, I need to get back early for me tea so I'll just miss out that estate"

Having said that, I was in some iffy looking estate Darlington yesterday picking something up from Marketplace, and I'd happily let the people I saw be cut off from the rest of us!
streetdeckfan
09 May 2021, 4:58 pm #82

(09 May 2021, 2:43 pm)Ambassador Let’s be honest here, nobody outside this group cares about the missed mileage, vehicle presentation or awful on board musical choices.

And why? Because these are barely used tendered routes used by low socio economic folk and of no economic value to anyone. They could complain but the routes are a nuisance, they don’t generate enough profit and in honesty the users are less likely to vocalise their complain.

It’s not right but it’s a sad truth.

I'd argue those routes are just as important, if not more so than just about any commercial route, and having access to a reliable bus service is probably even more important for those 'low socio economic folk'. If my bus doesn't turn up and I need to be somewhere, I can easily afford to just get a taxi, or call someone for a lift. If that happens to somebody who doesn't have a lot of money, and doesn't have someone who can give them a lift at the drop of a hat, then they're up a creek!

What if the place they needed to get to was a hospital appointment, or even a job interview which would potentially allow them to afford to live somewhere better. Their entire existence basically depends on a lazy GCT driver not thinking "fuck it, they're just poor people, I need to get back early for me tea so I'll just miss out that estate"

Having said that, I was in some iffy looking estate Darlington yesterday picking something up from Marketplace, and I'd happily let the people I saw be cut off from the rest of us!

Storx



4,481
09 May 2021, 5:20 pm #83
(09 May 2021, 2:43 pm)Ambassador Let’s be honest here, nobody outside this group cares about the missed mileage, vehicle presentation or awful on board musical choices.

And why? Because these are barely used tendered routes used by low socio economic folk and of no economic value to anyone. They could complain but the routes are a nuisance, they don’t generate enough profit and in honesty the users are less likely to vocalise their complain.

It’s not right but it’s a sad truth.

I don't really want to turn this into a politics thread but the subsidised services are more the opposite way imo and tend to serve more affluent areas rather than the poor areas (especially North of the Tyne). The W1/W2/W3/59/359/11/19/42/42A/S1/S2(Morpeth)/6/74/33/33A/553/K1/K2/M71/T2 all serve pretty much affluent areas throughout the whole of their routes.

I'd say the reason people don't complain is because they're empty as all the places they serve all have very high car usage or are using the Metro instead. There's only really the 41, T1, T3 and 335 which serve those type of places and even then the 335 serves some better areas on the Western side of the route.
Storx
09 May 2021, 5:20 pm #83

(09 May 2021, 2:43 pm)Ambassador Let’s be honest here, nobody outside this group cares about the missed mileage, vehicle presentation or awful on board musical choices.

And why? Because these are barely used tendered routes used by low socio economic folk and of no economic value to anyone. They could complain but the routes are a nuisance, they don’t generate enough profit and in honesty the users are less likely to vocalise their complain.

It’s not right but it’s a sad truth.

I don't really want to turn this into a politics thread but the subsidised services are more the opposite way imo and tend to serve more affluent areas rather than the poor areas (especially North of the Tyne). The W1/W2/W3/59/359/11/19/42/42A/S1/S2(Morpeth)/6/74/33/33A/553/K1/K2/M71/T2 all serve pretty much affluent areas throughout the whole of their routes.

I'd say the reason people don't complain is because they're empty as all the places they serve all have very high car usage or are using the Metro instead. There's only really the 41, T1, T3 and 335 which serve those type of places and even then the 335 serves some better areas on the Western side of the route.

Ambassador



1,820
09 May 2021, 7:41 pm #84
Sorry folks, I wasn’t clear. I agree these services are critical to those communities they serve but politically for Nexus or local councils, there is no political benefit at all to fight for them and that’s the game in play here and that’s why we are in the place we are with them.

I can’t see Bus Back Better being anything than a few key marginals or Tory controlled areas getting a wee boost or Low Fell getting a shiny new bus lane to please the chattering classes.

Call me an Andreas level of cynicism but hey ho!

Wistfully stuck in the 90s
Ambassador
09 May 2021, 7:41 pm #84

Sorry folks, I wasn’t clear. I agree these services are critical to those communities they serve but politically for Nexus or local councils, there is no political benefit at all to fight for them and that’s the game in play here and that’s why we are in the place we are with them.

I can’t see Bus Back Better being anything than a few key marginals or Tory controlled areas getting a wee boost or Low Fell getting a shiny new bus lane to please the chattering classes.

Call me an Andreas level of cynicism but hey ho!


Wistfully stuck in the 90s

09 May 2021, 8:47 pm #85
My mam has used GCT in the last few weeks (described as "are they the grey and red buses?"). She works at the Pharmacy at NT Hospital, and normally she gets the first bus (308/309/335) from there to either Cobalt or Willington Square then catch the 22 down. On the one occasion GCT arrived first with the 335 so she caught it to Cobalt, she complained to me that they are complete rip offs (although using more colourful language) charging £2.30 for the trip from NT Hospital to Cobalt where as it's only £1.70 on GNE. So she said she's sticking to waiting for the 309 to Cobalt instead. BTW my mam is an infrequent bus user and only uses the bus if she's unable to get a lift to / from work or if she's off to Toon, she isn't bothered about all the bells and whistles of wi-fi etc, she just wants to get there.

Please feel free to visit my Flickr page - https://www.flickr.com/photos/gjm-photogenic/
Who needs heroes anyway? Villians have more fun.
Rapidsnap
09 May 2021, 8:47 pm #85

My mam has used GCT in the last few weeks (described as "are they the grey and red buses?"). She works at the Pharmacy at NT Hospital, and normally she gets the first bus (308/309/335) from there to either Cobalt or Willington Square then catch the 22 down. On the one occasion GCT arrived first with the 335 so she caught it to Cobalt, she complained to me that they are complete rip offs (although using more colourful language) charging £2.30 for the trip from NT Hospital to Cobalt where as it's only £1.70 on GNE. So she said she's sticking to waiting for the 309 to Cobalt instead. BTW my mam is an infrequent bus user and only uses the bus if she's unable to get a lift to / from work or if she's off to Toon, she isn't bothered about all the bells and whistles of wi-fi etc, she just wants to get there.


Please feel free to visit my Flickr page - https://www.flickr.com/photos/gjm-photogenic/
Who needs heroes anyway? Villians have more fun.

Andreos1



14,155
09 May 2021, 8:59 pm #86
(09 May 2021, 7:41 pm)Ambassador Sorry folks, I wasn’t clear. I agree these services are critical to those communities they serve but politically for Nexus or local councils, there is no political benefit at all to fight for them and that’s the game in play here and that’s why we are in the place we are with them.

I can’t see Bus Back Better being anything than a few key marginals or Tory controlled areas getting a wee boost or Low Fell getting a shiny new bus lane to please the chattering classes.

Call me an Andreas level of cynicism but hey ho! 

I prefer using the terms disdain and scepticism.

'Illegitimis non carborundum'
Andreos1
09 May 2021, 8:59 pm #86

(09 May 2021, 7:41 pm)Ambassador Sorry folks, I wasn’t clear. I agree these services are critical to those communities they serve but politically for Nexus or local councils, there is no political benefit at all to fight for them and that’s the game in play here and that’s why we are in the place we are with them.

I can’t see Bus Back Better being anything than a few key marginals or Tory controlled areas getting a wee boost or Low Fell getting a shiny new bus lane to please the chattering classes.

Call me an Andreas level of cynicism but hey ho! 

I prefer using the terms disdain and scepticism.


'Illegitimis non carborundum'

James101



649
09 May 2021, 10:43 pm #87
Out of curiosity - are there mechanisms in place to stop a hypothetical operator bidding unsustainably low to win a contract and claiming the shortfall through Coronavirus Bus Service Support Grant?
James101
09 May 2021, 10:43 pm #87

Out of curiosity - are there mechanisms in place to stop a hypothetical operator bidding unsustainably low to win a contract and claiming the shortfall through Coronavirus Bus Service Support Grant?

morritt89



221
10 May 2021, 9:40 am #88
I have only used GCT once on the 319 from Jarrow to North Shields. Journey time was minimal and I used my staff pass so couldn't mention about fares. However, as a driver for one of the big groups and one who spent quite alot of time driving tendered services (before and during Covid) I would like to make the following points:

Fares are I believe set by Nexus - an example being the 33/33A (as they were) around the docks to the City Centre in Sunderland. Fares on the 33/33A were different from the evening and Sunday service 8 when GNE operated it. 

Wifi/Next Stop and all the bells and whistles that many take for granted, don't get me wrong they are nice however Stagecoach don't have Wifi/have recently turned it off to save money and nor do they do next stop announcements. Whilst it would improve the passenger experience and benefit many groups, those that use tendered services (again from my experience) are mainly free pass holders (elderly and simply don't use the wifi etc) and many are short hops of a few stops. 

As I have stated elsewhere, I have driven the 79A on many occasions with passenger numbers able to be counted on one hand and sometimes zero passengers. Maybe it would be worth looking at why passenger numbers aren't there (alternative services e.g. Easington Lane to Hetton or Houghton on the X1) or just simply no demand.

It would be nice to see some other independents or even the big boys operate more Nexus services but like everything it's all about cost and Nexus will want value for money for public money and if GCT are in best place to offer that then so be it. 

Worth noting (I feel anyway) GCT seem to have fairly new buses regardless of size and type and for the main they seem to be suited to the routes they do. For quite a lot of passengers (particularly when your bus breaks down) seem to mention the age of a vehicle and how old it is. So whilst all the creature comforts we have come to expect may be missing, its still a new bus (as passengers seem to believe new buses don't breakdown).
morritt89
10 May 2021, 9:40 am #88

I have only used GCT once on the 319 from Jarrow to North Shields. Journey time was minimal and I used my staff pass so couldn't mention about fares. However, as a driver for one of the big groups and one who spent quite alot of time driving tendered services (before and during Covid) I would like to make the following points:

Fares are I believe set by Nexus - an example being the 33/33A (as they were) around the docks to the City Centre in Sunderland. Fares on the 33/33A were different from the evening and Sunday service 8 when GNE operated it. 

Wifi/Next Stop and all the bells and whistles that many take for granted, don't get me wrong they are nice however Stagecoach don't have Wifi/have recently turned it off to save money and nor do they do next stop announcements. Whilst it would improve the passenger experience and benefit many groups, those that use tendered services (again from my experience) are mainly free pass holders (elderly and simply don't use the wifi etc) and many are short hops of a few stops. 

As I have stated elsewhere, I have driven the 79A on many occasions with passenger numbers able to be counted on one hand and sometimes zero passengers. Maybe it would be worth looking at why passenger numbers aren't there (alternative services e.g. Easington Lane to Hetton or Houghton on the X1) or just simply no demand.

It would be nice to see some other independents or even the big boys operate more Nexus services but like everything it's all about cost and Nexus will want value for money for public money and if GCT are in best place to offer that then so be it. 

Worth noting (I feel anyway) GCT seem to have fairly new buses regardless of size and type and for the main they seem to be suited to the routes they do. For quite a lot of passengers (particularly when your bus breaks down) seem to mention the age of a vehicle and how old it is. So whilst all the creature comforts we have come to expect may be missing, its still a new bus (as passengers seem to believe new buses don't breakdown).

Andreos1



14,155
10 May 2021, 6:25 pm #89
(09 May 2021, 1:40 pm)Dan I suppose the difference between Gateshead Central Taxis and commercial operators, is that it's easier for customers to identify when commercial operators don't fulfil their contracts and/or commercial work, as they offer live tracking on mobile apps, and have social media pages where service updates are added during times of service disruption. For their commercial work, services are much more frequent than contracts, which run far less often and could cause more inconvenience to intending passengers if they do not operate (on-time or at all).

Of course, if Gateshead Central Taxis had fulfilled their BODS requirements on-time, this possibly wouldn't be the case...

Sorry, I thought I replied to this at the time. Just realised I hadn't. 

You make some interesting points and I agree with what you have said. Like most things, there are exceptions and you're making assumptions that passengers are able to and/or can access the social media pages or apps.

For a number of years, I've made comments on how some people are unable to access this information for various reasons.
The idea of free broadband for all at the last general election was mocked (probably by those who can afford it), yet broadband and internet poverty still continues. Regardless of any other barriers that exist. 

I've not long seen a post that the vehicle allocated to the 28 broke down and the 18.17 ex Birtley to Newcastle wasn't running.
You know the frequency of that service and you know the market it operates and you can imagine poor Betty who is off to visit her husband at the QE is standing there in the wind and rain, waiting for the bus. 
She's got no access to social media. She doesn't have a smartphone and can barely operate the little old Nokia she does have.

What makes the operator of the 28 stand out above the operator of the 23?
All Betty wants is a bus to turn up - whether it takes her to the shops or to see her husband in hospital. She just wants it to turn up.

The 18.50 ex Newcastle 28 also didn't operate.
It's the only bus that will get Nigel home after a 12 hour shift at the RVI.
Nigel has a smartphone and can access social media too.
Whilst it may reassure him the 19.50 28 might rock up, neither of those things will get him home any quicker.

'Illegitimis non carborundum'
Andreos1
10 May 2021, 6:25 pm #89

(09 May 2021, 1:40 pm)Dan I suppose the difference between Gateshead Central Taxis and commercial operators, is that it's easier for customers to identify when commercial operators don't fulfil their contracts and/or commercial work, as they offer live tracking on mobile apps, and have social media pages where service updates are added during times of service disruption. For their commercial work, services are much more frequent than contracts, which run far less often and could cause more inconvenience to intending passengers if they do not operate (on-time or at all).

Of course, if Gateshead Central Taxis had fulfilled their BODS requirements on-time, this possibly wouldn't be the case...

Sorry, I thought I replied to this at the time. Just realised I hadn't. 

You make some interesting points and I agree with what you have said. Like most things, there are exceptions and you're making assumptions that passengers are able to and/or can access the social media pages or apps.

For a number of years, I've made comments on how some people are unable to access this information for various reasons.
The idea of free broadband for all at the last general election was mocked (probably by those who can afford it), yet broadband and internet poverty still continues. Regardless of any other barriers that exist. 

I've not long seen a post that the vehicle allocated to the 28 broke down and the 18.17 ex Birtley to Newcastle wasn't running.
You know the frequency of that service and you know the market it operates and you can imagine poor Betty who is off to visit her husband at the QE is standing there in the wind and rain, waiting for the bus. 
She's got no access to social media. She doesn't have a smartphone and can barely operate the little old Nokia she does have.

What makes the operator of the 28 stand out above the operator of the 23?
All Betty wants is a bus to turn up - whether it takes her to the shops or to see her husband in hospital. She just wants it to turn up.

The 18.50 ex Newcastle 28 also didn't operate.
It's the only bus that will get Nigel home after a 12 hour shift at the RVI.
Nigel has a smartphone and can access social media too.
Whilst it may reassure him the 19.50 28 might rock up, neither of those things will get him home any quicker.


'Illegitimis non carborundum'

V514DFT



2,225
10 May 2021, 11:28 pm #90
Your comments have made me wonder why bus companies dont operate an SMS service,like what taxis do,where you recieve a text confirming if your taxi is on the way,imo it would be useful,especially if you dont use social media,or have a disabilty etc

Kind Regards
Tez
V514DFT
10 May 2021, 11:28 pm #90

Your comments have made me wonder why bus companies dont operate an SMS service,like what taxis do,where you recieve a text confirming if your taxi is on the way,imo it would be useful,especially if you dont use social media,or have a disabilty etc


Kind Regards
Tez

Storx



4,481
11 May 2021, 7:58 am #91
(10 May 2021, 11:28 pm)V514DFT Your comments have made me wonder why bus companies dont operate an SMS service,like what taxis do,where you recieve a text confirming if your taxi is on the way,imo it would be useful,especially if you dont use social media,or have a disabilty etc

It's quite expensive to send texts out like. Roughly works out like 2p per every text you send via an API. It's alright for a taxi as they have the margins for 2p but for buses where fares are much lower (or they have a pass) it would soon start to mount up.
Storx
11 May 2021, 7:58 am #91

(10 May 2021, 11:28 pm)V514DFT Your comments have made me wonder why bus companies dont operate an SMS service,like what taxis do,where you recieve a text confirming if your taxi is on the way,imo it would be useful,especially if you dont use social media,or have a disabilty etc

It's quite expensive to send texts out like. Roughly works out like 2p per every text you send via an API. It's alright for a taxi as they have the margins for 2p but for buses where fares are much lower (or they have a pass) it would soon start to mount up.

11 May 2021, 9:12 am #92
(11 May 2021, 7:58 am)Storx It's quite expensive to send texts out like. Roughly works out like 2p per every text you send via an API. It's alright for a taxi as they have the margins for 2p but for buses where fares are much lower (or they have a pass) it would soon start to mount up.

This is why I'd really like to see the roll out of those E-ink timetable displays. They're low power (and solar I believe), relatively cheap, and can be updated remotely and kept up to date with live information.
streetdeckfan
11 May 2021, 9:12 am #92

(11 May 2021, 7:58 am)Storx It's quite expensive to send texts out like. Roughly works out like 2p per every text you send via an API. It's alright for a taxi as they have the margins for 2p but for buses where fares are much lower (or they have a pass) it would soon start to mount up.

This is why I'd really like to see the roll out of those E-ink timetable displays. They're low power (and solar I believe), relatively cheap, and can be updated remotely and kept up to date with live information.

Adrian



9,566
11 May 2021, 9:29 am #93
(11 May 2021, 7:58 am)Storx It's quite expensive to send texts out like. Roughly works out like 2p per every text you send via an API. It's alright for a taxi as they have the margins for 2p but for buses where fares are much lower (or they have a pass) it would soon start to mount up.
Yep, and it's difficult to control volumes.

The better solution would be proper infrastructure investment as part of the enhanced partnerships that are going to be forced upon regions.

With (most) operators now providing data to BODS, we should be able to get this information to passengers in the form of real-time info at all bus stops... not just how many minutes until your bus is due, but it should also be capable of noting delays on route or cancellations.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

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Adrian
11 May 2021, 9:29 am #93

(11 May 2021, 7:58 am)Storx It's quite expensive to send texts out like. Roughly works out like 2p per every text you send via an API. It's alright for a taxi as they have the margins for 2p but for buses where fares are much lower (or they have a pass) it would soon start to mount up.
Yep, and it's difficult to control volumes.

The better solution would be proper infrastructure investment as part of the enhanced partnerships that are going to be forced upon regions.

With (most) operators now providing data to BODS, we should be able to get this information to passengers in the form of real-time info at all bus stops... not just how many minutes until your bus is due, but it should also be capable of noting delays on route or cancellations.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


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11 May 2021, 10:20 am #94
If the 79/79A was a contract to be taken over by GCT(According to bus org) it has disappeared of the nexus website. It was put up about a week ago and its no longer on there. Does this mean Jh are keeping it
Micheal Aaron
11 May 2021, 10:20 am #94

If the 79/79A was a contract to be taken over by GCT(According to bus org) it has disappeared of the nexus website. It was put up about a week ago and its no longer on there. Does this mean Jh are keeping it

Chris 1



238
11 May 2021, 1:50 pm #95
(09 May 2021, 10:43 pm)James101 Out of curiosity - are there mechanisms in place to stop a hypothetical operator bidding unsustainably low to win a contract and claiming the shortfall through Coronavirus Bus Service Support Grant?

Is CBSSG paid for tendered services?


(08 May 2021, 6:41 am)GNE6312 Would it not be smart of nexus to limit the amount of tenders (except scholars) with each operator so that in the event that GCT runs into issues such as those mentioned above nexus won't have to rush to tender so many and also there will be no bias (or what may look like bias) to one operator as the contracts will be evenly shared out between all operators.

Not sure if it still applies, but there used to be similar stipulation in London.  Was something like no one operator could hold more than 25% of the market.
Edited 11 May 2021, 1:56 pm by Chris 1.
Chris 1
11 May 2021, 1:50 pm #95

(09 May 2021, 10:43 pm)James101 Out of curiosity - are there mechanisms in place to stop a hypothetical operator bidding unsustainably low to win a contract and claiming the shortfall through Coronavirus Bus Service Support Grant?

Is CBSSG paid for tendered services?


(08 May 2021, 6:41 am)GNE6312 Would it not be smart of nexus to limit the amount of tenders (except scholars) with each operator so that in the event that GCT runs into issues such as those mentioned above nexus won't have to rush to tender so many and also there will be no bias (or what may look like bias) to one operator as the contracts will be evenly shared out between all operators.

Not sure if it still applies, but there used to be similar stipulation in London.  Was something like no one operator could hold more than 25% of the market.

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