ZEBRA zero-emission buses scheme launched
ZEBRA zero-emission buses scheme launched
(29 Oct 2021, 7:35 pm)Keeiajs Would be nice to see Deptford get some electric buses possibly for the 60/20 or 56 (seems to be the most popular Sunderland routes)
(29 Oct 2021, 7:35 pm)Keeiajs Would be nice to see Deptford get some electric buses possibly for the 60/20 or 56 (seems to be the most popular Sunderland routes)
(29 Oct 2021, 6:35 pm)Michael In Martijn's live update tonight, he has confirmed they've bid for buses.... 77 bid
50 for GNE and rest for Durham/Northumberland council contracts.
https://www.facebook.com/100009920923911...3754764936 - from 2:15
Also, it looks like all of the future GNE buses order will be electric - so no more streetdecks/Streetlites by the look of it - but electric buses are double the price of Diesel buses.
(29 Oct 2021, 6:35 pm)Michael In Martijn's live update tonight, he has confirmed they've bid for buses.... 77 bid
50 for GNE and rest for Durham/Northumberland council contracts.
https://www.facebook.com/100009920923911...3754764936 - from 2:15
Also, it looks like all of the future GNE buses order will be electric - so no more streetdecks/Streetlites by the look of it - but electric buses are double the price of Diesel buses.
(29 Oct 2021, 8:56 pm)Malarkey Looks like the bid for the initial 50 Buses will be for the Tyne Valley Ten, Angel 21 & Cobalt & Coast 309/310/311 as the PVR for these services is 50, the other 27 will be the X-Lines X5/X15 & Durham P&R/Cathedral Bus Services and then Tynedale Links Network in Hexham which was what originally documented.But really they need to be looking at the millage of the double deckers and how that battery degreds over time.
I think in the interests of fleet standardisation they'll order either Wright Streetdeck Electroliners or the new Volvo BZL following demonstration then i'd think they'd likely stick with Yutong for any single deck orders but then again the smallest Yutong is 10.8m which is what is Voltra's at the moment, so I would therefore think potentially they may order some 9.6m BYD E200EV's.
(29 Oct 2021, 8:56 pm)Malarkey Looks like the bid for the initial 50 Buses will be for the Tyne Valley Ten, Angel 21 & Cobalt & Coast 309/310/311 as the PVR for these services is 50, the other 27 will be the X-Lines X5/X15 & Durham P&R/Cathedral Bus Services and then Tynedale Links Network in Hexham which was what originally documented.But really they need to be looking at the millage of the double deckers and how that battery degreds over time.
I think in the interests of fleet standardisation they'll order either Wright Streetdeck Electroliners or the new Volvo BZL following demonstration then i'd think they'd likely stick with Yutong for any single deck orders but then again the smallest Yutong is 10.8m which is what is Voltra's at the moment, so I would therefore think potentially they may order some 9.6m BYD E200EV's.
(29 Oct 2021, 7:39 pm)Michael 56 is a long route, not sure they would do from 5am till midnight (services during the night are Streetlites)Along with removing the barriers of electric buses being cost prohibitive at the moment (operators seem to not to buy them unless the exchequer helps them out), we probably need more creative thinking in how to deliver zero emissions public transport.
How many miles can the Yutong's go before they need charging?
What about the other electric buses, you can buy, how long do they last?
(29 Oct 2021, 7:39 pm)Michael 56 is a long route, not sure they would do from 5am till midnight (services during the night are Streetlites)Along with removing the barriers of electric buses being cost prohibitive at the moment (operators seem to not to buy them unless the exchequer helps them out), we probably need more creative thinking in how to deliver zero emissions public transport.
How many miles can the Yutong's go before they need charging?
What about the other electric buses, you can buy, how long do they last?
(31 Oct 2021, 12:33 am)Adrian Along with removing the barriers of electric buses being cost prohibitive at the moment (operators seem to not to buy them unless the exchequer helps them out), we probably need more creative thinking in how to deliver zero emissions public transport.
I spotted this video on YouTube from Germany, where they have an electric highway used by trucks. Some of the range issues could perhaps be solved by having similar overhead lines, with the dual purpose of being used for fast charging buses whilst in a section and for trams too.
https://youtu.be/_3P_S7pL7Yg
Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
(31 Oct 2021, 12:33 am)Adrian Along with removing the barriers of electric buses being cost prohibitive at the moment (operators seem to not to buy them unless the exchequer helps them out), we probably need more creative thinking in how to deliver zero emissions public transport.
I spotted this video on YouTube from Germany, where they have an electric highway used by trucks. Some of the range issues could perhaps be solved by having similar overhead lines, with the dual purpose of being used for fast charging buses whilst in a section and for trams too.
https://youtu.be/_3P_S7pL7Yg
Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
(31 Oct 2021, 12:33 am)Adrian Along with removing the barriers of electric buses being cost prohibitive at the moment (operators seem to not to buy them unless the exchequer helps them out), we probably need more creative thinking in how to deliver zero emissions public transport.Reducing/and or extending battery life would be idealy served by pantographs collecting from halos at bus stations, as is in use elsewhere. Trams need to come back, the metro can't expand west now. buses could feed from ole as trolley buses used to leaving the battery for dead sections as the metro proposed for Durham.
I spotted this video on YouTube from Germany, where they have an electric highway used by trucks. Some of the range issues could perhaps be solved by having similar overhead lines, with the dual purpose of being used for fast charging buses whilst in a section and for trams too.
https://youtu.be/_3P_S7pL7Yg
Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
(31 Oct 2021, 12:33 am)Adrian Along with removing the barriers of electric buses being cost prohibitive at the moment (operators seem to not to buy them unless the exchequer helps them out), we probably need more creative thinking in how to deliver zero emissions public transport.Reducing/and or extending battery life would be idealy served by pantographs collecting from halos at bus stations, as is in use elsewhere. Trams need to come back, the metro can't expand west now. buses could feed from ole as trolley buses used to leaving the battery for dead sections as the metro proposed for Durham.
I spotted this video on YouTube from Germany, where they have an electric highway used by trucks. Some of the range issues could perhaps be solved by having similar overhead lines, with the dual purpose of being used for fast charging buses whilst in a section and for trams too.
https://youtu.be/_3P_S7pL7Yg
Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
(31 Oct 2021, 7:32 am)Storx Hydrogen will be the future for vans, buses and trucks imo. The tech and the demand just isn't there but I'm pretty certain it'll become more mainstream when the petrol stations realise that petrol is finished. After all they need something to sell and with Shell and the likes on board they'll soon appear.The issue is that on-demand hydrogen production is fairly inefficient, and iirc, hydrogen is for the most part currently just a byproduct of fossil fuel production.
(31 Oct 2021, 7:32 am)Storx Hydrogen will be the future for vans, buses and trucks imo. The tech and the demand just isn't there but I'm pretty certain it'll become more mainstream when the petrol stations realise that petrol is finished. After all they need something to sell and with Shell and the likes on board they'll soon appear.The issue is that on-demand hydrogen production is fairly inefficient, and iirc, hydrogen is for the most part currently just a byproduct of fossil fuel production.
(31 Oct 2021, 11:31 am)streetdeckfan The issue is that on-demand hydrogen production is fairly inefficient, and iirc, hydrogen is for the most part currently just a byproduct of fossil fuel production.
Obviously if the electricity used to generate hydrogen was green it wouldn't be too bad, but I'd imagine if they had their own on-site generation they'd end up using power from the grid which isn't so green.
The advantage of hydrogen is due to its far superior energy density compared to lithium based batteries the ranges can be a lot further, making them actually usable
Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk
(31 Oct 2021, 11:31 am)streetdeckfan The issue is that on-demand hydrogen production is fairly inefficient, and iirc, hydrogen is for the most part currently just a byproduct of fossil fuel production.
Obviously if the electricity used to generate hydrogen was green it wouldn't be too bad, but I'd imagine if they had their own on-site generation they'd end up using power from the grid which isn't so green.
The advantage of hydrogen is due to its far superior energy density compared to lithium based batteries the ranges can be a lot further, making them actually usable
Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk
(31 Oct 2021, 11:31 am)streetdeckfan The issue is that on-demand hydrogen production is fairly inefficient, and iirc, hydrogen is for the most part currently just a byproduct of fossil fuel production.
Obviously if the electricity used to generate hydrogen was green it wouldn't be too bad, but I'd imagine if they had their own on-site generation they'd end up using power from the grid which isn't so green.
The advantage of hydrogen is due to its far superior energy density compared to lithium based batteries the ranges can be a lot further, making them actually usable
Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk
(31 Oct 2021, 11:31 am)streetdeckfan The issue is that on-demand hydrogen production is fairly inefficient, and iirc, hydrogen is for the most part currently just a byproduct of fossil fuel production.
Obviously if the electricity used to generate hydrogen was green it wouldn't be too bad, but I'd imagine if they had their own on-site generation they'd end up using power from the grid which isn't so green.
The advantage of hydrogen is due to its far superior energy density compared to lithium based batteries the ranges can be a lot further, making them actually usable
Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk
(31 Oct 2021, 7:32 am)Storx Hydrogen will be the future for vans, buses and trucks imo. The tech and the demand just isn't there but I'm pretty certain it'll become more mainstream when the petrol stations realise that petrol is finished. After all they need something to sell and with Shell and the likes on board they'll soon appear.
(31 Oct 2021, 7:45 am)54APhotography Reducing/and or extending battery life would be idealy served by pantographs collecting from halos at bus stations, as is in use elsewhere. Trams need to come back, the metro can't expand west now. buses could feed from ole as trolley buses used to leaving the battery for dead sections as the metro proposed for Durham.
(31 Oct 2021, 11:31 am)streetdeckfan The issue is that on-demand hydrogen production is fairly inefficient, and iirc, hydrogen is for the most part currently just a byproduct of fossil fuel production.
Obviously if the electricity used to generate hydrogen was green it wouldn't be too bad, but I'd imagine if they had their own on-site generation they'd end up using power from the grid which isn't so green.
The advantage of hydrogen is due to its far superior energy density compared to lithium based batteries the ranges can be a lot further, making them actually usable
Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk
(31 Oct 2021, 7:32 am)Storx Hydrogen will be the future for vans, buses and trucks imo. The tech and the demand just isn't there but I'm pretty certain it'll become more mainstream when the petrol stations realise that petrol is finished. After all they need something to sell and with Shell and the likes on board they'll soon appear.
(31 Oct 2021, 7:45 am)54APhotography Reducing/and or extending battery life would be idealy served by pantographs collecting from halos at bus stations, as is in use elsewhere. Trams need to come back, the metro can't expand west now. buses could feed from ole as trolley buses used to leaving the battery for dead sections as the metro proposed for Durham.
(31 Oct 2021, 11:31 am)streetdeckfan The issue is that on-demand hydrogen production is fairly inefficient, and iirc, hydrogen is for the most part currently just a byproduct of fossil fuel production.
Obviously if the electricity used to generate hydrogen was green it wouldn't be too bad, but I'd imagine if they had their own on-site generation they'd end up using power from the grid which isn't so green.
The advantage of hydrogen is due to its far superior energy density compared to lithium based batteries the ranges can be a lot further, making them actually usable
Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk
Working it out, it will be 1x spare per group of routes out of the initial 50x (1:15, 1:16, 1:16 ratios)
What will happen regarding Chester & Percy Main depots? Will they have the infrastructure or will temporary outstations / compounds be setup until newer depots are built?
(31 Oct 2021, 6:59 pm)L469 YVK Working it out, it will be 1x spare per group of routes out of the initial 50x (1:15, 1:16, 1:16 ratios)
What will happen regarding Chester & Percy Main depots? Will they have the infrastructure or will temporary outstations / compounds be setup until newer depots are built?
(31 Oct 2021, 6:59 pm)L469 YVK Working it out, it will be 1x spare per group of routes out of the initial 50x (1:15, 1:16, 1:16 ratios)
What will happen regarding Chester & Percy Main depots? Will they have the infrastructure or will temporary outstations / compounds be setup until newer depots are built?
(31 Oct 2021, 9:18 pm)Michael I wonder if the other 27 will be passed around different companies for the Hexham and Northumberland contracted services? So like GNE could have them for 3 year before moving to Arriva for example or would the council have to have them stay with one company due to the deal passed over to the government for the funding.So if successful, that could see the Angel moved from Chester Le Street to Riverside? Unless the longer term plan will be to close Chester Le Street with services potentially being split between Washington/Riverside/Consett.
That's if they actually get the funding... which I doubt as its the North East...
Is there any space for the charging infrastructure at those depots?
Edit:
Found a PDF with info on about the bid for the North East
https://www.transportnortheast.gov.uk/wp...l-1-RV.pdf
(31 Oct 2021, 9:18 pm)Michael I wonder if the other 27 will be passed around different companies for the Hexham and Northumberland contracted services? So like GNE could have them for 3 year before moving to Arriva for example or would the council have to have them stay with one company due to the deal passed over to the government for the funding.So if successful, that could see the Angel moved from Chester Le Street to Riverside? Unless the longer term plan will be to close Chester Le Street with services potentially being split between Washington/Riverside/Consett.
That's if they actually get the funding... which I doubt as its the North East...
Is there any space for the charging infrastructure at those depots?
Edit:
Found a PDF with info on about the bid for the North East
https://www.transportnortheast.gov.uk/wp...l-1-RV.pdf
(31 Oct 2021, 9:18 pm)Michael I wonder if the other 27 will be passed around different companies for the Hexham and Northumberland contracted services? So like GNE could have them for 3 year before moving to Arriva for example or would the council have to have them stay with one company due to the deal passed over to the government for the funding.
That's if they actually get the funding... which I doubt as its the North East...
Is there any space for the charging infrastructure at those depots?
Edit:
Found a PDF with info on about the bid for the North East
https://www.transportnortheast.gov.uk/wp...l-1-RV.pdf
(31 Oct 2021, 9:18 pm)Michael I wonder if the other 27 will be passed around different companies for the Hexham and Northumberland contracted services? So like GNE could have them for 3 year before moving to Arriva for example or would the council have to have them stay with one company due to the deal passed over to the government for the funding.
That's if they actually get the funding... which I doubt as its the North East...
Is there any space for the charging infrastructure at those depots?
Edit:
Found a PDF with info on about the bid for the North East
https://www.transportnortheast.gov.uk/wp...l-1-RV.pdf
(31 Oct 2021, 9:18 pm)Michael I wonder if the other 27 will be passed around different companies for the Hexham and Northumberland contracted services? So like GNE could have them for 3 year before moving to Arriva for example or would the council have to have them stay with one company due to the deal passed over to the government for the funding.
That's if they actually get the funding... which I doubt as its the North East...
Is there any space for the charging infrastructure at those depots?
Edit:
Found a PDF with info on about the bid for the North East
https://www.transportnortheast.gov.uk/wp...l-1-RV.pdf
(31 Oct 2021, 9:18 pm)Michael I wonder if the other 27 will be passed around different companies for the Hexham and Northumberland contracted services? So like GNE could have them for 3 year before moving to Arriva for example or would the council have to have them stay with one company due to the deal passed over to the government for the funding.
That's if they actually get the funding... which I doubt as its the North East...
Is there any space for the charging infrastructure at those depots?
Edit:
Found a PDF with info on about the bid for the North East
https://www.transportnortheast.gov.uk/wp...l-1-RV.pdf
(31 Oct 2021, 11:13 pm)Malarkey What is interesting about the bid is that if it is successful the operations of the "Angel 21" will move to Gateshead Riverside Depot, further to that they've bid for 10 new buses for the Venture Network which has not been mentioned previously.
(31 Oct 2021, 11:13 pm)Malarkey What is interesting about the bid is that if it is successful the operations of the "Angel 21" will move to Gateshead Riverside Depot, further to that they've bid for 10 new buses for the Venture Network which has not been mentioned previously.
(31 Oct 2021, 11:13 pm)Malarkey What is interesting about the bid is that if it is successful the operations of the "Angel 21" will move to Gateshead Riverside Depot, further to that they've bid for 10 new buses for the Venture Network which has not been mentioned previously.
(31 Oct 2021, 11:13 pm)Malarkey What is interesting about the bid is that if it is successful the operations of the "Angel 21" will move to Gateshead Riverside Depot, further to that they've bid for 10 new buses for the Venture Network which has not been mentioned previously.
(31 Oct 2021, 11:13 pm)Malarkey What is interesting about the bid is that if it is successful the operations of the "Angel 21" will move to Gateshead Riverside Depot, further to that they've bid for 10 new buses for the Venture Network which has not been mentioned previously.
(01 Nov 2021, 12:42 am)Ambassador surely will see a lot of dead mileage for the amount of runs that start at Chester le Street. Tho the odd workings when the electrics inevitably have issues might be interesting!
Pre covid there, in fact probably 2015-7ish there was talk of CLS closing and a new depot at Drum Industrial Estate but it never happened. It would be sensible considering CLS can’t be expanded and doesn’t look future ready though I imagine it’s a large capital outlay at a time when they haven’t got much but they could merge Washington and CLS into Drum or another early site.
(31 Oct 2021, 11:13 pm)Malarkey What is interesting about the bid is that if it is successful the operations of the "Angel 21" will move to Gateshead Riverside Depot, further to that they've bid for 10 new buses for the Venture Network which has not been mentioned previously.
(01 Nov 2021, 12:42 am)Ambassador surely will see a lot of dead mileage for the amount of runs that start at Chester le Street. Tho the odd workings when the electrics inevitably have issues might be interesting!
Pre covid there, in fact probably 2015-7ish there was talk of CLS closing and a new depot at Drum Industrial Estate but it never happened. It would be sensible considering CLS can’t be expanded and doesn’t look future ready though I imagine it’s a large capital outlay at a time when they haven’t got much but they could merge Washington and CLS into Drum or another early site.
(01 Nov 2021, 10:18 am)Adrian There can't be much of Chester-le-Street left, if the 21 moves to Riverside? Although I appreciate that is what the document suggests.
I wonder if the age of the CLS depot has anything to do with it, along with the viability of getting charging equipment in place for EVs?
I'd guess a lot of those Chester-le-Street starting runs happen because that is where the depot is. If the 21 moved to Riverside, they'll probably just start earlier in Newcastle or Gateshead, rather than having to make the light journey to Chester-le-Street.
(01 Nov 2021, 10:18 am)Adrian There can't be much of Chester-le-Street left, if the 21 moves to Riverside? Although I appreciate that is what the document suggests.
I wonder if the age of the CLS depot has anything to do with it, along with the viability of getting charging equipment in place for EVs?
I'd guess a lot of those Chester-le-Street starting runs happen because that is where the depot is. If the 21 moved to Riverside, they'll probably just start earlier in Newcastle or Gateshead, rather than having to make the light journey to Chester-le-Street.
(01 Nov 2021, 5:07 pm)Jimmi I could see CLS depot closing in the future tbh especially if the 21 moves to Riverside, pretty much everything they operate could easily be done out of other depots, only real awkward ones are the 34/71 for driver changeovers.If the NatEx & Stagecoach merger happens it has already been suggested within Busways that Walkergate would be the depot for both brands. Guess that would be a significant loss to Chester.
Could maybe add a few extra X22 trips to save on some dead milage too.
(01 Nov 2021, 5:07 pm)Jimmi I could see CLS depot closing in the future tbh especially if the 21 moves to Riverside, pretty much everything they operate could easily be done out of other depots, only real awkward ones are the 34/71 for driver changeovers.If the NatEx & Stagecoach merger happens it has already been suggested within Busways that Walkergate would be the depot for both brands. Guess that would be a significant loss to Chester.
Could maybe add a few extra X22 trips to save on some dead milage too.