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Go North East respond after bus drivers hit out over pay rise

Go North East respond after bus drivers hit out over pay rise

 
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MurdnunoC



3,965
06 Jul 2021, 2:30 pm #21
(06 Jul 2021, 1:25 pm)streetdeckfan For me it's down to working with people, it's something I just can't tolerate! I don't think I'd last a day before kicking off with someone.

Supposing everyone held the same opinions as you about working with the public, how would you convince someone to consider driving a bus as a career option? How would you sell the bus industry to someone who might have other career prospects?
MurdnunoC
06 Jul 2021, 2:30 pm #21

(06 Jul 2021, 1:25 pm)streetdeckfan For me it's down to working with people, it's something I just can't tolerate! I don't think I'd last a day before kicking off with someone.

Supposing everyone held the same opinions as you about working with the public, how would you convince someone to consider driving a bus as a career option? How would you sell the bus industry to someone who might have other career prospects?

JP6004



1,833
06 Jul 2021, 2:36 pm #22
(06 Jul 2021, 2:24 pm)GNE6312 That's shocking. GNE should be held accountable for that. If they have enough money to pointlessly repaint & rebrand buses then they have enough to pay staff. Besides stagecoach have no brands and most their buses are bog standard yet they still get passengers. Arriva have a relatively old fleet with few liveries (only MAX, the 2 Sapphire liveries & their 3 corporate liveries) yet they get alot of passengers so they can't say branding brings passengers. Not to mention they could have saved the money to pay staff by not replacing the 15 plate buses on the red kite last year.
The Streetdecks were due to arrive late 2019 and were delayed due to issues at Wright. Then the start of pandemic delayed delivery again. However, they would of saved a lot with some of the order being diverted away from the NE.

(06 Jul 2021, 1:48 pm)Storx Nice to see the usual lot are defending GNE at all costs as usual. The wage for GNE is absolutely crap especially those at a starter wage of £18,300 which is below the Living Wage of £18,525. Good on them for wanting more especially when they didn't get a wage increase in 2020.  In context Stagecoach have jobs available at £9.91/hour which works out at £19,066.84 a year rising to £22876.36 after 5 years.

There's no excuse not paying above the living wage.
I wouldnt turn my nose up at it. New starters at my current kind-of not anymore work place was only £17,500
Edited 06 Jul 2021, 2:39 pm by JP6004.
JP6004
06 Jul 2021, 2:36 pm #22

(06 Jul 2021, 2:24 pm)GNE6312 That's shocking. GNE should be held accountable for that. If they have enough money to pointlessly repaint & rebrand buses then they have enough to pay staff. Besides stagecoach have no brands and most their buses are bog standard yet they still get passengers. Arriva have a relatively old fleet with few liveries (only MAX, the 2 Sapphire liveries & their 3 corporate liveries) yet they get alot of passengers so they can't say branding brings passengers. Not to mention they could have saved the money to pay staff by not replacing the 15 plate buses on the red kite last year.
The Streetdecks were due to arrive late 2019 and were delayed due to issues at Wright. Then the start of pandemic delayed delivery again. However, they would of saved a lot with some of the order being diverted away from the NE.

(06 Jul 2021, 1:48 pm)Storx Nice to see the usual lot are defending GNE at all costs as usual. The wage for GNE is absolutely crap especially those at a starter wage of £18,300 which is below the Living Wage of £18,525. Good on them for wanting more especially when they didn't get a wage increase in 2020.  In context Stagecoach have jobs available at £9.91/hour which works out at £19,066.84 a year rising to £22876.36 after 5 years.

There's no excuse not paying above the living wage.
I wouldnt turn my nose up at it. New starters at my current kind-of not anymore work place was only £17,500

Chris 1



238
06 Jul 2021, 2:41 pm #23
(06 Jul 2021, 2:24 pm)GNE6312 That's shocking. GNE should be held accountable for that. If they have enough money to pointlessly repaint & rebrand buses then they have enough to pay staff. Besides stagecoach have no brands and most their buses are bog standard yet they still get passengers. Arriva have a relatively old fleet with few liveries (only MAX, the 2 Sapphire liveries & their 3 corporate liveries) yet they get alot of passengers so they can't say branding brings passengers. Not to mention they could have saved the money to pay staff by not replacing the 15 plate buses on the red kite last year.

Not that it helps the bus drivers' lot, but new vehicles, refurbishment/repainting will be capital costs.  Pay doesn't come from capital.

(06 Jul 2021, 2:36 pm)JP6004
I wouldnt turn my nose up at it. New starters at my current kind-of not anymore work place was only £17,500

For some people it they can make it work.  Throw in a mortgage, couple of kids maybe and a bit of debt and it won't go far enough.
Edited 06 Jul 2021, 2:43 pm by Chris 1.
Chris 1
06 Jul 2021, 2:41 pm #23

(06 Jul 2021, 2:24 pm)GNE6312 That's shocking. GNE should be held accountable for that. If they have enough money to pointlessly repaint & rebrand buses then they have enough to pay staff. Besides stagecoach have no brands and most their buses are bog standard yet they still get passengers. Arriva have a relatively old fleet with few liveries (only MAX, the 2 Sapphire liveries & their 3 corporate liveries) yet they get alot of passengers so they can't say branding brings passengers. Not to mention they could have saved the money to pay staff by not replacing the 15 plate buses on the red kite last year.

Not that it helps the bus drivers' lot, but new vehicles, refurbishment/repainting will be capital costs.  Pay doesn't come from capital.

(06 Jul 2021, 2:36 pm)JP6004
I wouldnt turn my nose up at it. New starters at my current kind-of not anymore work place was only £17,500

For some people it they can make it work.  Throw in a mortgage, couple of kids maybe and a bit of debt and it won't go far enough.

Storx



4,482
06 Jul 2021, 2:44 pm #24
(06 Jul 2021, 2:24 pm)GNE6312 That's shocking. GNE should be held accountable for that. If they have enough money to pointlessly repaint & rebrand buses then they have enough to pay staff. Besides stagecoach have no brands and most their buses are bog standard yet they still get passengers. Arriva have a relatively old fleet with few liveries (only MAX, the 2 Sapphire liveries & their 3 corporate liveries) yet they get alot of passengers so they can't say branding brings passengers. Not to mention they could have saved the money to pay staff by not replacing the 15 plate buses on the red kite last year.

Yeah it's what they're trying to say don't think they mean outright literally tho but I can imagine it being a, 'we want more money,' - 'sorry no money can't do that' - 'well why you repainting everything...?' scenario.

Must say that was basic salary there so excluding any overtime and was just using figures online (GNE site and a job application for SNE) so they might vary a bit in reality but obviously drivers aren't happy. The reviews of ex GNE staff leave a lot to be desired aswell. Stagecoach and Arriva being equally as bad but a lot of mentions of pay for GNE and favourites getting the overtime with unhealthy working hours which is never a good mix for morale.
Storx
06 Jul 2021, 2:44 pm #24

(06 Jul 2021, 2:24 pm)GNE6312 That's shocking. GNE should be held accountable for that. If they have enough money to pointlessly repaint & rebrand buses then they have enough to pay staff. Besides stagecoach have no brands and most their buses are bog standard yet they still get passengers. Arriva have a relatively old fleet with few liveries (only MAX, the 2 Sapphire liveries & their 3 corporate liveries) yet they get alot of passengers so they can't say branding brings passengers. Not to mention they could have saved the money to pay staff by not replacing the 15 plate buses on the red kite last year.

Yeah it's what they're trying to say don't think they mean outright literally tho but I can imagine it being a, 'we want more money,' - 'sorry no money can't do that' - 'well why you repainting everything...?' scenario.

Must say that was basic salary there so excluding any overtime and was just using figures online (GNE site and a job application for SNE) so they might vary a bit in reality but obviously drivers aren't happy. The reviews of ex GNE staff leave a lot to be desired aswell. Stagecoach and Arriva being equally as bad but a lot of mentions of pay for GNE and favourites getting the overtime with unhealthy working hours which is never a good mix for morale.

JP6004



1,833
06 Jul 2021, 2:45 pm #25
(06 Jul 2021, 2:41 pm)Chris 1 Not that it helps the bus drivers' lot, but new vehicles, refurbishment/repainting will be capital costs.  Pay doesn't come from capital.


For some people it they can make it work.  Throw in a mortgage, couple of kids maybe and a bit of debt and it won't go far enough.
Better than no job though
JP6004
06 Jul 2021, 2:45 pm #25

(06 Jul 2021, 2:41 pm)Chris 1 Not that it helps the bus drivers' lot, but new vehicles, refurbishment/repainting will be capital costs.  Pay doesn't come from capital.


For some people it they can make it work.  Throw in a mortgage, couple of kids maybe and a bit of debt and it won't go far enough.
Better than no job though

Chris 1



238
06 Jul 2021, 2:50 pm #26
(06 Jul 2021, 2:30 pm)MurdnunoC Supposing everyone held the same opinions as you about working with the public, how would you convince someone to consider driving a bus as a career option? How would you sell the bus industry to someone who might have other career prospects?
HR departments are waiting with baited breath!

I think the key word there is convince.  You'd struggle to 'convince' anyone!  I've always considered bus driving as a vocation type of job.  The industry - generally - doesn't have a very good reputation for treating staff very well and that's before you deal with the punters.  Given the responsibilities of the job, and the repercussions if it all goes horribly wrong then remuneration should be higher. 

I suppose to make it an attractive proposition, you'd have to highlight the freedom, the relative autonomy and the flexibility that shift work can bring.  Though no matter how hard you try, you're always going to struggle to sell driving around Leam Lane at night as an attractive proposition...

(06 Jul 2021, 2:45 pm)JP6004 Better than no job though
It is, but if the comparison is no job then surely as soon as something else comes up paying more money then you're average bus driver with no affinity to the industry will just jump ship.  And who can blame them?  It just exacerbates the problem.
Edited 06 Jul 2021, 2:54 pm by Chris 1.
Chris 1
06 Jul 2021, 2:50 pm #26

(06 Jul 2021, 2:30 pm)MurdnunoC Supposing everyone held the same opinions as you about working with the public, how would you convince someone to consider driving a bus as a career option? How would you sell the bus industry to someone who might have other career prospects?
HR departments are waiting with baited breath!

I think the key word there is convince.  You'd struggle to 'convince' anyone!  I've always considered bus driving as a vocation type of job.  The industry - generally - doesn't have a very good reputation for treating staff very well and that's before you deal with the punters.  Given the responsibilities of the job, and the repercussions if it all goes horribly wrong then remuneration should be higher. 

I suppose to make it an attractive proposition, you'd have to highlight the freedom, the relative autonomy and the flexibility that shift work can bring.  Though no matter how hard you try, you're always going to struggle to sell driving around Leam Lane at night as an attractive proposition...

(06 Jul 2021, 2:45 pm)JP6004 Better than no job though
It is, but if the comparison is no job then surely as soon as something else comes up paying more money then you're average bus driver with no affinity to the industry will just jump ship.  And who can blame them?  It just exacerbates the problem.

Stanleyone

6358

451
06 Jul 2021, 4:11 pm #27
Going back many years when I first started in the industry you would find many drivers would do tour/private hire work in the summer (that's where the money was) and then do local service work in the winter.
Now in my opinion some of those that sit in the higher positions seem to easily forget what it was like as a driver, not forgetting the university trained manager whose never driven in service telling a 40 year veteran how the job should be done and you start on the slippery slope of low morale. Add in the poor shift patterns finish 00.30ish and back in for 9.30am and you'll see why some drivers are choosing a more attractive work/life balance.
Stanleyone
06 Jul 2021, 4:11 pm #27

Going back many years when I first started in the industry you would find many drivers would do tour/private hire work in the summer (that's where the money was) and then do local service work in the winter.
Now in my opinion some of those that sit in the higher positions seem to easily forget what it was like as a driver, not forgetting the university trained manager whose never driven in service telling a 40 year veteran how the job should be done and you start on the slippery slope of low morale. Add in the poor shift patterns finish 00.30ish and back in for 9.30am and you'll see why some drivers are choosing a more attractive work/life balance.

Andreos1



14,155
06 Jul 2021, 7:35 pm #28
(06 Jul 2021, 2:50 pm)Chris 1 HR departments are waiting with baited breath!

I think the key word there is convince.  You'd struggle to 'convince' anyone!  I've always considered bus driving as a vocation type of job.  The industry - generally - doesn't have a very good reputation for treating staff very well and that's before you deal with the punters.  Given the responsibilities of the job, and the repercussions if it all goes horribly wrong then remuneration should be higher. 

I suppose to make it an attractive proposition, you'd have to highlight the freedom, the relative autonomy and the flexibility that shift work can bring.  Though no matter how hard you try, you're always going to struggle to sell driving around Leam Lane at night as an attractive proposition...

It is, but if the comparison is no job then surely as soon as something else comes up paying more money then you're average bus driver with no affinity to the industry will just jump ship.  And who can blame them?  It just exacerbates the problem. 

I think the attrition seen in low wage environments probably back that theory up.
Regardless of the sector.

If someone can get 20p an hour extra up the road with a competitor, the chances are they will go to the competitor up the road. Particularly if money is the motivating or driving factor.

I often see and hear of organisations desperate to reduce staff turnover. They will do all sorts to try and reduce it. Except make the wage attractive or in some cases - competitive.

'Illegitimis non carborundum'
Andreos1
06 Jul 2021, 7:35 pm #28

(06 Jul 2021, 2:50 pm)Chris 1 HR departments are waiting with baited breath!

I think the key word there is convince.  You'd struggle to 'convince' anyone!  I've always considered bus driving as a vocation type of job.  The industry - generally - doesn't have a very good reputation for treating staff very well and that's before you deal with the punters.  Given the responsibilities of the job, and the repercussions if it all goes horribly wrong then remuneration should be higher. 

I suppose to make it an attractive proposition, you'd have to highlight the freedom, the relative autonomy and the flexibility that shift work can bring.  Though no matter how hard you try, you're always going to struggle to sell driving around Leam Lane at night as an attractive proposition...

It is, but if the comparison is no job then surely as soon as something else comes up paying more money then you're average bus driver with no affinity to the industry will just jump ship.  And who can blame them?  It just exacerbates the problem. 

I think the attrition seen in low wage environments probably back that theory up.
Regardless of the sector.

If someone can get 20p an hour extra up the road with a competitor, the chances are they will go to the competitor up the road. Particularly if money is the motivating or driving factor.

I often see and hear of organisations desperate to reduce staff turnover. They will do all sorts to try and reduce it. Except make the wage attractive or in some cases - competitive.


'Illegitimis non carborundum'

big mac



430
06 Jul 2021, 9:00 pm #29
(06 Jul 2021, 2:24 pm)GNE6312 That's shocking. GNE should be held accountable for that. If they have enough money to pointlessly repaint & rebrand buses then they have enough to pay staff. Besides stagecoach have no brands and most their buses are bog standard yet they still get passengers. Arriva have a relatively old fleet with few liveries (only MAX, the 2 Sapphire liveries & their 3 corporate liveries) yet they get alot of passengers so they can't say branding brings passengers. Not to mention they could have saved the money to pay staff by not replacing the 15 plate buses on the red kite last year.
With the branding, if GNE painted all of their buses in corporate livery and had no brands at all, would this really have an effect on the amount of passengers using the service? I think it would hardly make any difference to the loadings at all. The average punter couldn't care less what colour the vehicle is, provided it is going where they need to go.

Sent from my moto g(8) power lite using Tapatalk
big mac
06 Jul 2021, 9:00 pm #29

(06 Jul 2021, 2:24 pm)GNE6312 That's shocking. GNE should be held accountable for that. If they have enough money to pointlessly repaint & rebrand buses then they have enough to pay staff. Besides stagecoach have no brands and most their buses are bog standard yet they still get passengers. Arriva have a relatively old fleet with few liveries (only MAX, the 2 Sapphire liveries & their 3 corporate liveries) yet they get alot of passengers so they can't say branding brings passengers. Not to mention they could have saved the money to pay staff by not replacing the 15 plate buses on the red kite last year.
With the branding, if GNE painted all of their buses in corporate livery and had no brands at all, would this really have an effect on the amount of passengers using the service? I think it would hardly make any difference to the loadings at all. The average punter couldn't care less what colour the vehicle is, provided it is going where they need to go.

Sent from my moto g(8) power lite using Tapatalk

L469 YVK



3,544
06 Jul 2021, 9:28 pm #30
(06 Jul 2021, 2:24 pm)GNE6312 That's shocking. GNE should be held accountable for that. If they have enough money to pointlessly repaint & rebrand buses then they have enough to pay staff. Besides stagecoach have no brands and most their buses are bog standard yet they still get passengers. Arriva have a relatively old fleet with few liveries (only MAX, the 2 Sapphire liveries & their 3 corporate liveries) yet they get alot of passengers so they can't say branding brings passengers. Not to mention they could have saved the money to pay staff by not replacing the 15 plate buses on the red kite last year.
Stagecoach will always make money due to the demographic of most of their routes (i.e mainly City Centre).


Martijn's reasoning behind the original pre-pandemic investment and subsequent refreshes (funded by a different budget) make sense. Both will create growth.

Arriva choosing to run deckers in limp mode chasing each other through Cramlington or a tarted up B7TL will only provide a short term gain. In fact, Arriva in Blyth & Ashington will be in serious trouble if they don't improve their offering and adapt to customer expectations before BTR goes live.
L469 YVK
06 Jul 2021, 9:28 pm #30

(06 Jul 2021, 2:24 pm)GNE6312 That's shocking. GNE should be held accountable for that. If they have enough money to pointlessly repaint & rebrand buses then they have enough to pay staff. Besides stagecoach have no brands and most their buses are bog standard yet they still get passengers. Arriva have a relatively old fleet with few liveries (only MAX, the 2 Sapphire liveries & their 3 corporate liveries) yet they get alot of passengers so they can't say branding brings passengers. Not to mention they could have saved the money to pay staff by not replacing the 15 plate buses on the red kite last year.
Stagecoach will always make money due to the demographic of most of their routes (i.e mainly City Centre).


Martijn's reasoning behind the original pre-pandemic investment and subsequent refreshes (funded by a different budget) make sense. Both will create growth.

Arriva choosing to run deckers in limp mode chasing each other through Cramlington or a tarted up B7TL will only provide a short term gain. In fact, Arriva in Blyth & Ashington will be in serious trouble if they don't improve their offering and adapt to customer expectations before BTR goes live.

Storx



4,482
06 Jul 2021, 9:49 pm #31
(06 Jul 2021, 9:28 pm)L469 YVK Stagecoach will always make money due to the demographic of most of their routes (i.e mainly City Centre).


Martijn's reasoning behind the original pre-pandemic investment and subsequent refreshes (funded by a different budget) make sense. Both will create growth.

Arriva choosing to run deckers in limp mode chasing each other through Cramlington or a tarted up B7TL will only provide a short term gain. In fact, Arriva in Blyth & Ashington will be in serious trouble if they don't improve their offering and adapt to customer expectations before BTR goes live.

Go North East bus drivers are moaning about wages which could potentially lead to strikes but you turn it onto Arriva as usual.

As a customer, I'd rather have a bus company with 10 year old totally adequate buses on, which turns up, than a bus company with brand new buses sitting in a depot somewhere because their drivers are on strike.
Storx
06 Jul 2021, 9:49 pm #31

(06 Jul 2021, 9:28 pm)L469 YVK Stagecoach will always make money due to the demographic of most of their routes (i.e mainly City Centre).


Martijn's reasoning behind the original pre-pandemic investment and subsequent refreshes (funded by a different budget) make sense. Both will create growth.

Arriva choosing to run deckers in limp mode chasing each other through Cramlington or a tarted up B7TL will only provide a short term gain. In fact, Arriva in Blyth & Ashington will be in serious trouble if they don't improve their offering and adapt to customer expectations before BTR goes live.

Go North East bus drivers are moaning about wages which could potentially lead to strikes but you turn it onto Arriva as usual.

As a customer, I'd rather have a bus company with 10 year old totally adequate buses on, which turns up, than a bus company with brand new buses sitting in a depot somewhere because their drivers are on strike.

06 Jul 2021, 11:49 pm #32
(06 Jul 2021, 9:55 am)Andreos1 Really?
Even when you add in the associated design costs (Stenning needs to make a living too - even if the designs are copied and pasted from elsewhere or created using the automatic livery generator), fuel/plus drivers to get to and from Blackburn, raw materials and labour costs... That's just off the top of my head. 
Sure there will be other numbers which need to be accounted for too.


Does make you wonder how much extra an hour per employee that budget could have funded - as you say when you add up design consultancy, up anddown to Blackburn, then even just the presumably low cost of the vinyls to change swoop into stripe - it is not going to be an insignificant sum (after all when people have suggested painting a bus for X I am sure Martijn has talked about the prohibitive cost of doing so for one vehicle never mind a fleet of hundreds).  Have no idea though whether that would still transalte to just a few pence an hour per employee when it was numbercrunched.  Transparency about that with the workforce might help to alleviate some of the tensions, if indeed the rebranding and repainting obesession is small fry in terms of potential money to save.

Worth noting as well that while in that video Martijn categorically states Go North East is "not making a profit" and that "none of the bus industry is making a profit yet", the preliminary year end results for Stagecoach (UK Bus operations) for 2020-21 suggests the latter statement is untrue.  Page 10 of this report for anyone interested makes it clear that while massively reduced, the UK Bus division of Stagecoach actually made over £24 million operating profit in the year to May 2021.  While some of this appears to be related to the Government grant funding, it is still being reported (and therefore presumably retained) as profit, contributing to share values etc.

On the flip side, a 2% payrise for any organisation (except maybe Zoom and other IT/tech companies!) in the current climate is pretty generous.  The salaries quoted for drivers are comparable to the lower paid end of the NHS workforce, including some nurses - all of whome have likewise been working pretty hard through the pandemic - and are likely being rewarded with 1% rise.  Not to mention the rest of the public sector...
stagecoachbusdepot
06 Jul 2021, 11:49 pm #32

(06 Jul 2021, 9:55 am)Andreos1 Really?
Even when you add in the associated design costs (Stenning needs to make a living too - even if the designs are copied and pasted from elsewhere or created using the automatic livery generator), fuel/plus drivers to get to and from Blackburn, raw materials and labour costs... That's just off the top of my head. 
Sure there will be other numbers which need to be accounted for too.


Does make you wonder how much extra an hour per employee that budget could have funded - as you say when you add up design consultancy, up anddown to Blackburn, then even just the presumably low cost of the vinyls to change swoop into stripe - it is not going to be an insignificant sum (after all when people have suggested painting a bus for X I am sure Martijn has talked about the prohibitive cost of doing so for one vehicle never mind a fleet of hundreds).  Have no idea though whether that would still transalte to just a few pence an hour per employee when it was numbercrunched.  Transparency about that with the workforce might help to alleviate some of the tensions, if indeed the rebranding and repainting obesession is small fry in terms of potential money to save.

Worth noting as well that while in that video Martijn categorically states Go North East is "not making a profit" and that "none of the bus industry is making a profit yet", the preliminary year end results for Stagecoach (UK Bus operations) for 2020-21 suggests the latter statement is untrue.  Page 10 of this report for anyone interested makes it clear that while massively reduced, the UK Bus division of Stagecoach actually made over £24 million operating profit in the year to May 2021.  While some of this appears to be related to the Government grant funding, it is still being reported (and therefore presumably retained) as profit, contributing to share values etc.

On the flip side, a 2% payrise for any organisation (except maybe Zoom and other IT/tech companies!) in the current climate is pretty generous.  The salaries quoted for drivers are comparable to the lower paid end of the NHS workforce, including some nurses - all of whome have likewise been working pretty hard through the pandemic - and are likely being rewarded with 1% rise.  Not to mention the rest of the public sector...

mb134



4,131
07 Jul 2021, 1:59 am #33
(06 Jul 2021, 9:28 pm)L469 YVK Arriva choosing to run deckers in limp mode chasing each other through Cramlington or a tarted up B7TL will only provide a short term gain. In fact, Arriva in Blyth & Ashington will be in serious trouble if they don't improve their offering and adapt to customer expectations before BTR goes live.

Not sure what the relevance of this is in a GNE pay thread like.

I highly doubt they will be in "serious trouble" - as has been pointed out more times than I can remember, there are other passenger flows that those depots serve other than to Newcastle (and even then, folk will still use the bus given the somewhat limited nature of the train for some areas). The line, to me, is very much targeting car users over bus passengers. 

You also seem to have an issue with "tarted up" B7s - yet never seen to have a response when it's pointed out that companies such as Transdev are "tarting up" similarly aged B7s. They also aren't really "choosing" to do so, the hand is somewhat forced by the lack of cash from DB.
mb134
07 Jul 2021, 1:59 am #33

(06 Jul 2021, 9:28 pm)L469 YVK Arriva choosing to run deckers in limp mode chasing each other through Cramlington or a tarted up B7TL will only provide a short term gain. In fact, Arriva in Blyth & Ashington will be in serious trouble if they don't improve their offering and adapt to customer expectations before BTR goes live.

Not sure what the relevance of this is in a GNE pay thread like.

I highly doubt they will be in "serious trouble" - as has been pointed out more times than I can remember, there are other passenger flows that those depots serve other than to Newcastle (and even then, folk will still use the bus given the somewhat limited nature of the train for some areas). The line, to me, is very much targeting car users over bus passengers. 

You also seem to have an issue with "tarted up" B7s - yet never seen to have a response when it's pointed out that companies such as Transdev are "tarting up" similarly aged B7s. They also aren't really "choosing" to do so, the hand is somewhat forced by the lack of cash from DB.

Dan

Site Administrator

18,100
07 Jul 2021, 4:42 am #34
(06 Jul 2021, 9:49 pm)Storx Go North East bus drivers are moaning about wages which could potentially lead to strikes but you turn it onto Arriva as usual.

As a customer, I'd rather have a bus company with 10 year old totally adequate buses on, which turns up, than a bus company with brand new buses sitting in a depot somewhere because their drivers are on strike.



Just for transparency and balance, Arriva’s pay ballot results were on 1 July and 81% of their drivers rejected the 1.5% pay deal offer. 87% have said they’d be willing to strike over this.

Stagecoach have also rejected their pay offer of a 1% pay rise (although they had a 2% payrise last year as part of a two-year deal, so is actually 3% between the two years).

So unfortunately Arriva’s 10 year old bus mightn’t turn up either.


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Dan
07 Jul 2021, 4:42 am #34

(06 Jul 2021, 9:49 pm)Storx Go North East bus drivers are moaning about wages which could potentially lead to strikes but you turn it onto Arriva as usual.

As a customer, I'd rather have a bus company with 10 year old totally adequate buses on, which turns up, than a bus company with brand new buses sitting in a depot somewhere because their drivers are on strike.



Just for transparency and balance, Arriva’s pay ballot results were on 1 July and 81% of their drivers rejected the 1.5% pay deal offer. 87% have said they’d be willing to strike over this.

Stagecoach have also rejected their pay offer of a 1% pay rise (although they had a 2% payrise last year as part of a two-year deal, so is actually 3% between the two years).

So unfortunately Arriva’s 10 year old bus mightn’t turn up either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Adrian



9,566
07 Jul 2021, 8:16 am #35
(06 Jul 2021, 1:48 pm)Storx There's no excuse not paying above the living wage.

Completely agree with this, but I had thought Go-Ahead voluntarily committed to paying the Living Wage years ago? I can find something from 2016 about it, but also this blog post from 2019: https://www.go-ahead.com/media/blog/why-...odie-brian

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Adrian
07 Jul 2021, 8:16 am #35

(06 Jul 2021, 1:48 pm)Storx There's no excuse not paying above the living wage.

Completely agree with this, but I had thought Go-Ahead voluntarily committed to paying the Living Wage years ago? I can find something from 2016 about it, but also this blog post from 2019: https://www.go-ahead.com/media/blog/why-...odie-brian


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Storx



4,482
07 Jul 2021, 10:05 am #36
(07 Jul 2021, 8:16 am)Adrian Completely agree with this, but I had thought Go-Ahead voluntarily committed to paying the Living Wage years ago? I can find something from 2016 about it, but also this blog post from 2019: https://www.go-ahead.com/media/blog/why-...odie-brian

Yeah they did by the looks of it but just over. But since they didn't have any rise in 2020 it's now gone under slightly and the 2% won't cover it. It's where the 4% is coming from by the looks of it.

Using a 37.5 hourly week as it's either 37/38 hours depending on the company and the base rate of £18,300

2019 - Hourly Rate: £9.38 / Living Wage: £9.30
2020 - Hourly Rate: £9.38 / Living Wage: £9.50
2021 - Hourly Rate: £9.57 (+2%) / Living Wage: N/A  but likely to be roughly £9.70 at least (it usually goes up 20-30p)

With a 4% increase it would £9.76 an hour which would likely cover it.

To put it in context you get £9.55 to work in Tesco and ones a hell of a lot easier than the other - obviously there's no wage increases over the years like you get with buses though to make it balanced.

As Dan has said above Arriva are obviously having the same problems but no surprise they're having problems again (especially with Durham already being on strike over wages very recently) and the different wages between depots which is asking for trouble anyway.

Also JP6004 the £17,500 is an awful wage must be right on minimum wage I guess? Otherwise it's just ever slightly over using the same 37.5 hours that's £8.97 / week which is well under the living wage.
Storx
07 Jul 2021, 10:05 am #36

(07 Jul 2021, 8:16 am)Adrian Completely agree with this, but I had thought Go-Ahead voluntarily committed to paying the Living Wage years ago? I can find something from 2016 about it, but also this blog post from 2019: https://www.go-ahead.com/media/blog/why-...odie-brian

Yeah they did by the looks of it but just over. But since they didn't have any rise in 2020 it's now gone under slightly and the 2% won't cover it. It's where the 4% is coming from by the looks of it.

Using a 37.5 hourly week as it's either 37/38 hours depending on the company and the base rate of £18,300

2019 - Hourly Rate: £9.38 / Living Wage: £9.30
2020 - Hourly Rate: £9.38 / Living Wage: £9.50
2021 - Hourly Rate: £9.57 (+2%) / Living Wage: N/A  but likely to be roughly £9.70 at least (it usually goes up 20-30p)

With a 4% increase it would £9.76 an hour which would likely cover it.

To put it in context you get £9.55 to work in Tesco and ones a hell of a lot easier than the other - obviously there's no wage increases over the years like you get with buses though to make it balanced.

As Dan has said above Arriva are obviously having the same problems but no surprise they're having problems again (especially with Durham already being on strike over wages very recently) and the different wages between depots which is asking for trouble anyway.

Also JP6004 the £17,500 is an awful wage must be right on minimum wage I guess? Otherwise it's just ever slightly over using the same 37.5 hours that's £8.97 / week which is well under the living wage.

JP6004



1,833
07 Jul 2021, 10:19 am #37
(07 Jul 2021, 10:05 am)Storx Yeah they did by the looks of it but just over. But since they didn't have any rise in 2020 it's now gone under slightly and the 2% won't cover it. It's where the 4% is coming from by the looks of it.

Using a 37.5 hourly week as it's either 37/38 hours depending on the company and the base rate of £18,300

2019 - Hourly Rate: £9.38 / Living Wage: £9.30
2020 - Hourly Rate: £9.38 / Living Wage: £9.50
2021 - Hourly Rate: £9.57 (+2%) / Living Wage: N/A  but likely to be roughly £9.70 at least (it usually goes up 20-30p)

With a 4% increase it would £9.76 an hour which would likely cover it.

To put it in context you get £9.55 to work in Tesco and ones a hell of a lot easier than the other - obviously there's no wage increases over the years like you get with buses though to make it balanced.

As Dan has said above Arriva are obviously having the same problems but no surprise they're having problems again (especially with Durham already being on strike over wages very recently) and the different wages between depots which is asking for trouble anyway.

Also JP6004 the £17,500 is an awful wage must be right on minimum wage I guess? Otherwise it's just ever slightly over using the same 37.5 hours that's £8.97 / week which is well under the living wage.
Yea its not much, after a few months and you gain more experience, your grade increases to just over £19k. I remember when I first started I was on £11,800. That was many years ago. That was 37 hour week
JP6004
07 Jul 2021, 10:19 am #37

(07 Jul 2021, 10:05 am)Storx Yeah they did by the looks of it but just over. But since they didn't have any rise in 2020 it's now gone under slightly and the 2% won't cover it. It's where the 4% is coming from by the looks of it.

Using a 37.5 hourly week as it's either 37/38 hours depending on the company and the base rate of £18,300

2019 - Hourly Rate: £9.38 / Living Wage: £9.30
2020 - Hourly Rate: £9.38 / Living Wage: £9.50
2021 - Hourly Rate: £9.57 (+2%) / Living Wage: N/A  but likely to be roughly £9.70 at least (it usually goes up 20-30p)

With a 4% increase it would £9.76 an hour which would likely cover it.

To put it in context you get £9.55 to work in Tesco and ones a hell of a lot easier than the other - obviously there's no wage increases over the years like you get with buses though to make it balanced.

As Dan has said above Arriva are obviously having the same problems but no surprise they're having problems again (especially with Durham already being on strike over wages very recently) and the different wages between depots which is asking for trouble anyway.

Also JP6004 the £17,500 is an awful wage must be right on minimum wage I guess? Otherwise it's just ever slightly over using the same 37.5 hours that's £8.97 / week which is well under the living wage.
Yea its not much, after a few months and you gain more experience, your grade increases to just over £19k. I remember when I first started I was on £11,800. That was many years ago. That was 37 hour week

Andreos1



14,155
07 Jul 2021, 10:43 am #38
(07 Jul 2021, 10:19 am)JP6004 Yea its not much, after a few months and you gain more experience, your grade increases to just over £19k. I remember when I first started I was on £11,800. That was many years ago. That was 37 hour week

My first job (part time) was £2.52 an hour. Well before minimum wage was even a thing.
Although I had ambition and didn't see myself doing that on a full-time basis, the low wages ensured I didn't become too comfortable or complacent and I moved on to something else (which paid more) a few years later.

'Illegitimis non carborundum'
Andreos1
07 Jul 2021, 10:43 am #38

(07 Jul 2021, 10:19 am)JP6004 Yea its not much, after a few months and you gain more experience, your grade increases to just over £19k. I remember when I first started I was on £11,800. That was many years ago. That was 37 hour week

My first job (part time) was £2.52 an hour. Well before minimum wage was even a thing.
Although I had ambition and didn't see myself doing that on a full-time basis, the low wages ensured I didn't become too comfortable or complacent and I moved on to something else (which paid more) a few years later.


'Illegitimis non carborundum'

JP6004



1,833
07 Jul 2021, 10:52 am #39
(07 Jul 2021, 10:43 am)Andreos1 My first job (part time) was £2.52 an hour. Well before minimum wage was even a thing.
Although I had ambition and didn't see myself doing that on a full-time basis, the low wages ensured I didn't become too comfortable or complacent and I moved on to something else (which paid more) a few years later.
To be fair I could of easily found higher paid job but I was comfortable, that's why I'm still here 14yrs later! My first job was £3.20ph when I was 18. I left because I refused to work Christmas Day again!
JP6004
07 Jul 2021, 10:52 am #39

(07 Jul 2021, 10:43 am)Andreos1 My first job (part time) was £2.52 an hour. Well before minimum wage was even a thing.
Although I had ambition and didn't see myself doing that on a full-time basis, the low wages ensured I didn't become too comfortable or complacent and I moved on to something else (which paid more) a few years later.
To be fair I could of easily found higher paid job but I was comfortable, that's why I'm still here 14yrs later! My first job was £3.20ph when I was 18. I left because I refused to work Christmas Day again!

Andreos1



14,155
07 Jul 2021, 10:59 am #40
(07 Jul 2021, 10:52 am)JP6004 To be fair I could of easily found higher paid job but I was comfortable, that's why I'm still here 14yrs later! My first job was £3.20ph when I was 18. I left because I refused to work Christmas Day again!

I think there will be drivers like that, who have a similar mindset. 
There will be others who don't think like that too mind and that's probably where the issue lies.

'Illegitimis non carborundum'
Andreos1
07 Jul 2021, 10:59 am #40

(07 Jul 2021, 10:52 am)JP6004 To be fair I could of easily found higher paid job but I was comfortable, that's why I'm still here 14yrs later! My first job was £3.20ph when I was 18. I left because I refused to work Christmas Day again!

I think there will be drivers like that, who have a similar mindset. 
There will be others who don't think like that too mind and that's probably where the issue lies.


'Illegitimis non carborundum'

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