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Emergency Service Changes from 25th September 2021

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Dan

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18,114
04 Oct 2021, 11:38 am #21
(04 Oct 2021, 11:35 am)stagecoachbusdepot X-lines: don't drive, get stranded.


Hilarious.

Ironic that operators are working closely with one another through NEbus currently and Go North East has the lowest amount of lost mileage between the three major operators, and are leading the way in terms of passenger communications - yet Go North East gets the most backlash because they are the most honest.


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Dan
04 Oct 2021, 11:38 am #21

(04 Oct 2021, 11:35 am)stagecoachbusdepot X-lines: don't drive, get stranded.


Hilarious.

Ironic that operators are working closely with one another through NEbus currently and Go North East has the lowest amount of lost mileage between the three major operators, and are leading the way in terms of passenger communications - yet Go North East gets the most backlash because they are the most honest.


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Train8261



1,016
04 Oct 2021, 1:45 pm #22
(04 Oct 2021, 11:38 am)Dan Hilarious.

Ironic that operators are working closely with one another through NEbus currently and Go North East has the lowest amount of lost mileage between the three major operators, and are leading the way in terms of passenger communications - yet Go North East gets the most backlash because they are the most honest.


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It's 2021 that's what happens now and it's annoying to see tbh
Train8261
04 Oct 2021, 1:45 pm #22

(04 Oct 2021, 11:38 am)Dan Hilarious.

Ironic that operators are working closely with one another through NEbus currently and Go North East has the lowest amount of lost mileage between the three major operators, and are leading the way in terms of passenger communications - yet Go North East gets the most backlash because they are the most honest.


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It's 2021 that's what happens now and it's annoying to see tbh

big mac



430
04 Oct 2021, 2:02 pm #23
(04 Oct 2021, 9:00 am)Wybus This is not great in today's short notice cancellations

X-lines X30 | X31:

From Newcastle: 07:45, 10:15, 10:35, 10:55, 14:35, 16:00, 16:40.
From Stanley: 07:10, 08:34, 10:39, 10:59, 11:20, 15:22, 16:47, 17:30, 19:15, 19:55.

Three consecutive departures meaning no service from 9:55 to 11:15
Yes especially when they say in the information that they will try not to cancel consecutive journeys. Two on the bounce obviously isn't great but three...

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big mac
04 Oct 2021, 2:02 pm #23

(04 Oct 2021, 9:00 am)Wybus This is not great in today's short notice cancellations

X-lines X30 | X31:

From Newcastle: 07:45, 10:15, 10:35, 10:55, 14:35, 16:00, 16:40.
From Stanley: 07:10, 08:34, 10:39, 10:59, 11:20, 15:22, 16:47, 17:30, 19:15, 19:55.

Three consecutive departures meaning no service from 9:55 to 11:15
Yes especially when they say in the information that they will try not to cancel consecutive journeys. Two on the bounce obviously isn't great but three...

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Dan

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18,114
04 Oct 2021, 2:45 pm #24
(04 Oct 2021, 2:02 pm)big mac Yes especially when they say in the information that they will try not to cancel consecutive journeys. Two on the bounce obviously isn't great but three...

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Three demonstrates the world we’re living in currently, and is only known about because of the open and honest communications from the company published the night prior to allow customers to make alternative arrangements for their planned journeys?

I’m sure every effort was made not to cancel consecutive journeys - but staff may not be willing (or be able to, in terms of driving hours and legal rest) to swap shifts from the one they’ve been rostered, or it may have resulted in something even more significant being cancelled (ie a first or last bus).

There was a report elsewhere on the forum that one of Gateshead Central Taxis’ Nexus-secured contracts did not operate AT ALL one day last week, presumably due to similar issues being faced.

During a national labour shortage (affecting not just the bus industry!), every effort is being made to avoid disruption. A labour shortage in the public transport industry is of course much more inconvenient than a labour shortage in retail, or in fast food for example (where all products mightn’t be available or customers may have to wait longer than normal).

Arriva and Stagecoach are suffering similar issues, albeit on a much wider scale, but I’m yet to see any discussion about their cancelled journeys?


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Dan
04 Oct 2021, 2:45 pm #24

(04 Oct 2021, 2:02 pm)big mac Yes especially when they say in the information that they will try not to cancel consecutive journeys. Two on the bounce obviously isn't great but three...

Sent from my moto g(8) power lite using Tapatalk


Three demonstrates the world we’re living in currently, and is only known about because of the open and honest communications from the company published the night prior to allow customers to make alternative arrangements for their planned journeys?

I’m sure every effort was made not to cancel consecutive journeys - but staff may not be willing (or be able to, in terms of driving hours and legal rest) to swap shifts from the one they’ve been rostered, or it may have resulted in something even more significant being cancelled (ie a first or last bus).

There was a report elsewhere on the forum that one of Gateshead Central Taxis’ Nexus-secured contracts did not operate AT ALL one day last week, presumably due to similar issues being faced.

During a national labour shortage (affecting not just the bus industry!), every effort is being made to avoid disruption. A labour shortage in the public transport industry is of course much more inconvenient than a labour shortage in retail, or in fast food for example (where all products mightn’t be available or customers may have to wait longer than normal).

Arriva and Stagecoach are suffering similar issues, albeit on a much wider scale, but I’m yet to see any discussion about their cancelled journeys?


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Drifter60



551
04 Oct 2021, 4:11 pm #25
(04 Oct 2021, 2:45 pm)Dan Three demonstrates the world we’re living in currently, and is only known about because of the open and honest communications from the company published the night prior to allow customers to make alternative arrangements for their planned journeys?

I’m sure every effort was made not to cancel consecutive journeys - but staff may not be willing (or be able to, in terms of driving hours and legal rest) to swap shifts from the one they’ve been rostered, or it may have resulted in something even more significant being cancelled (ie a first or last bus).

There was a report elsewhere on the forum that one of Gateshead Central Taxis’ Nexus-secured contracts did not operate AT ALL one day last week, presumably due to similar issues being faced.

During a national labour shortage (affecting not just the bus industry!), every effort is being made to avoid disruption. A labour shortage in the public transport industry is of course much more inconvenient than a labour shortage in retail, or in fast food for example (where all products mightn’t be available or customers may have to wait longer than normal).

Arriva and Stagecoach are suffering similar issues, albeit on a much wider scale, but I’m yet to see any discussion about their cancelled journeys?


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I happen to agree it’s somewhat unfair that GNE get a small amount of backlash when other operators could be accused of hiding how many journeys aren’t running right now. However, does that mitigate the fact three consecutive X30’s have been cancelled? No not all. Everyday Jane isn’t going to know or care about the complexity of this, all they’ll see is no X30 buses for more than hour meanwhile a couple of X1 leave, a handful of 21s leave etc. It looks a little short sighted. But as you point out I hope and expect every effort was done too avoid that but perhaps wasn’t possible. As for this forum the initial poster seem to be just making an observation and then a tongue in cheek comment. I certainly didn’t think it was overly critical. Overall social media seems to be largely positive towards GNE and people seem to be taking the cancellations in their stride. I’m not sure if drivers on the roads are facing a tougher job?
Drifter60
04 Oct 2021, 4:11 pm #25

(04 Oct 2021, 2:45 pm)Dan Three demonstrates the world we’re living in currently, and is only known about because of the open and honest communications from the company published the night prior to allow customers to make alternative arrangements for their planned journeys?

I’m sure every effort was made not to cancel consecutive journeys - but staff may not be willing (or be able to, in terms of driving hours and legal rest) to swap shifts from the one they’ve been rostered, or it may have resulted in something even more significant being cancelled (ie a first or last bus).

There was a report elsewhere on the forum that one of Gateshead Central Taxis’ Nexus-secured contracts did not operate AT ALL one day last week, presumably due to similar issues being faced.

During a national labour shortage (affecting not just the bus industry!), every effort is being made to avoid disruption. A labour shortage in the public transport industry is of course much more inconvenient than a labour shortage in retail, or in fast food for example (where all products mightn’t be available or customers may have to wait longer than normal).

Arriva and Stagecoach are suffering similar issues, albeit on a much wider scale, but I’m yet to see any discussion about their cancelled journeys?


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I happen to agree it’s somewhat unfair that GNE get a small amount of backlash when other operators could be accused of hiding how many journeys aren’t running right now. However, does that mitigate the fact three consecutive X30’s have been cancelled? No not all. Everyday Jane isn’t going to know or care about the complexity of this, all they’ll see is no X30 buses for more than hour meanwhile a couple of X1 leave, a handful of 21s leave etc. It looks a little short sighted. But as you point out I hope and expect every effort was done too avoid that but perhaps wasn’t possible. As for this forum the initial poster seem to be just making an observation and then a tongue in cheek comment. I certainly didn’t think it was overly critical. Overall social media seems to be largely positive towards GNE and people seem to be taking the cancellations in their stride. I’m not sure if drivers on the roads are facing a tougher job?

peter



993
04 Oct 2021, 5:45 pm #26
(04 Oct 2021, 2:45 pm)Dan Three demonstrates the world we’re living in currently, and is only known about because of the open and honest communications from the company published the night prior to allow customers to make alternative arrangements for their planned journeys?

I’m sure every effort was made not to cancel consecutive journeys - but staff may not be willing (or be able to, in terms of driving hours and legal rest) to swap shifts from the one they’ve been rostered, or it may have resulted in something even more significant being cancelled (ie a first or last bus).

There was a report elsewhere on the forum that one of Gateshead Central Taxis’ Nexus-secured contracts did not operate AT ALL one day last week, presumably due to similar issues being faced.

During a national labour shortage (affecting not just the bus industry!), every effort is being made to avoid disruption. A labour shortage in the public transport industry is of course much more inconvenient than a labour shortage in retail, or in fast food for example (where all products mightn’t be available or customers may have to wait longer than normal).

Arriva and Stagecoach are suffering similar issues, albeit on a much wider scale, but I’m yet to see any discussion about their cancelled journeys?


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Because GNE publicly declare which journeys are being cancelled you get plenty of criticism on here and likely elsewhere from people who won't actually be using the affected services. With ANE and SNE who give no prior information, the only people who can complain are the people who turn up for the journeys and find no bus turns up. I know I personally would rather know what's happening in advance so I could either alter my plan or make alternative travel arrangements than be left stranded with no prior notice.
peter
04 Oct 2021, 5:45 pm #26

(04 Oct 2021, 2:45 pm)Dan Three demonstrates the world we’re living in currently, and is only known about because of the open and honest communications from the company published the night prior to allow customers to make alternative arrangements for their planned journeys?

I’m sure every effort was made not to cancel consecutive journeys - but staff may not be willing (or be able to, in terms of driving hours and legal rest) to swap shifts from the one they’ve been rostered, or it may have resulted in something even more significant being cancelled (ie a first or last bus).

There was a report elsewhere on the forum that one of Gateshead Central Taxis’ Nexus-secured contracts did not operate AT ALL one day last week, presumably due to similar issues being faced.

During a national labour shortage (affecting not just the bus industry!), every effort is being made to avoid disruption. A labour shortage in the public transport industry is of course much more inconvenient than a labour shortage in retail, or in fast food for example (where all products mightn’t be available or customers may have to wait longer than normal).

Arriva and Stagecoach are suffering similar issues, albeit on a much wider scale, but I’m yet to see any discussion about their cancelled journeys?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Because GNE publicly declare which journeys are being cancelled you get plenty of criticism on here and likely elsewhere from people who won't actually be using the affected services. With ANE and SNE who give no prior information, the only people who can complain are the people who turn up for the journeys and find no bus turns up. I know I personally would rather know what's happening in advance so I could either alter my plan or make alternative travel arrangements than be left stranded with no prior notice.

Ambassador



1,849
04 Oct 2021, 10:39 pm #27
again tin hat on as this is a close subject to some members and their employers but devils advocate here. 

I’m Go North East. I’m well run. My PR team are a bit lacking but in all, I’m well run by MG.

I run a campaign saying better than ever…then I follow that up with a glossy X Lines campaign. 

I then through not fault of my own cancel a load of services including a lot on my shiny new well advertised X Lines route  however, I knew this was coming. Now either my ops team ain’t talking to my commercial team or someone is making bad calls or being ignored.

Do I put my hands up and say, yeah, bad PR move should have thought this through, you know, like my operations director tweeting about all our great North run resource during resource related service cuts or do I point at other operators who haven’t run high profile campaigns and kept their head down? 

for every marketing win for go north east…genuinely not sure how the marketing team or agency are still in a job, it’s horrible advice.
Wistfully stuck in the 90s
Ambassador
04 Oct 2021, 10:39 pm #27

again tin hat on as this is a close subject to some members and their employers but devils advocate here. 

I’m Go North East. I’m well run. My PR team are a bit lacking but in all, I’m well run by MG.

I run a campaign saying better than ever…then I follow that up with a glossy X Lines campaign. 

I then through not fault of my own cancel a load of services including a lot on my shiny new well advertised X Lines route  however, I knew this was coming. Now either my ops team ain’t talking to my commercial team or someone is making bad calls or being ignored.

Do I put my hands up and say, yeah, bad PR move should have thought this through, you know, like my operations director tweeting about all our great North run resource during resource related service cuts or do I point at other operators who haven’t run high profile campaigns and kept their head down? 

for every marketing win for go north east…genuinely not sure how the marketing team or agency are still in a job, it’s horrible advice.

Wistfully stuck in the 90s

Dan

Website
Site Administrator

18,114
05 Oct 2021, 5:09 am #28
(04 Oct 2021, 10:39 pm)Ambassador again tin hat on as this is a close subject to some members and their employers but devils advocate here. 

I’m Go North East. I’m well run. My PR team are a bit lacking but in all, I’m well run by MG.

I run a campaign saying better than ever…then I follow that up with a glossy X Lines campaign. 

I then through not fault of my own cancel a load of services including a lot on my shiny new well advertised X Lines route  however, I knew this was coming. Now either my ops team ain’t talking to my commercial team or someone is making bad calls or being ignored.

Do I put my hands up and say, yeah, bad PR move should have thought this through, you know, like my operations director tweeting about all our great North run resource during resource related service cuts or do I point at other operators who haven’t run high profile campaigns and kept their head down? 

for every marketing win for go north east…genuinely not sure how the marketing team or agency are still in a job, it’s horrible advice.

I don’t think the situation is/was quite as you’ve depicted it there, otherwise I’d have agreed with you. I’m not sure that the national labour shortage was quite as easy to predict as is being alluded here, either? Go North East were in a much better position than most operators (even running services on their behalf) for a long time, as the staff shortage at Go North East in its infancy was driven by sickness. Clearly as sickness runs on, reliance on overtime is tricky as staff get overtime fatigue.

Licences being held up by the DVLA is also a big contributor - the bus industry naturally has a high turnover (potential reasons for this have been discussed in another thread), and when there’s a blockage at the DVLA meaning licences aren’t being renewed, this extra time before new starters can begin is also quite damaging. However, and indeed as you say, another factor outside of GNE’s control.

It wasn’t the Operations Director that Tweeted, it was an Operations Manager (big difference, but I took the point at the time). What he’s chosen to do on his own Twitter feed isn’t aligned to that of the wider PR strategy by Go North East.

When X-lines was being promoted, there was far fewer (barely any) journey cancellations. The world has moved on and all marketing was put on hold - that is clear to see from the social media feed alone, where journey cancellations and ‘#BeKind’ is all that is being promoted currently. I don’t think it’s that much of an own goal, and the only ones using the #BetterThanEver campaign against the company are enthusiasts (who probably aren’t even affected by the journey cancellations anyway).

All that said, in the grand scheme of things (over 8000 journeys being operated daily), the situation seems to be improving daily. Hopefully we’re over the worst of it now, but I still think other operators have a long way to go.

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Dan
05 Oct 2021, 5:09 am #28

(04 Oct 2021, 10:39 pm)Ambassador again tin hat on as this is a close subject to some members and their employers but devils advocate here. 

I’m Go North East. I’m well run. My PR team are a bit lacking but in all, I’m well run by MG.

I run a campaign saying better than ever…then I follow that up with a glossy X Lines campaign. 

I then through not fault of my own cancel a load of services including a lot on my shiny new well advertised X Lines route  however, I knew this was coming. Now either my ops team ain’t talking to my commercial team or someone is making bad calls or being ignored.

Do I put my hands up and say, yeah, bad PR move should have thought this through, you know, like my operations director tweeting about all our great North run resource during resource related service cuts or do I point at other operators who haven’t run high profile campaigns and kept their head down? 

for every marketing win for go north east…genuinely not sure how the marketing team or agency are still in a job, it’s horrible advice.

I don’t think the situation is/was quite as you’ve depicted it there, otherwise I’d have agreed with you. I’m not sure that the national labour shortage was quite as easy to predict as is being alluded here, either? Go North East were in a much better position than most operators (even running services on their behalf) for a long time, as the staff shortage at Go North East in its infancy was driven by sickness. Clearly as sickness runs on, reliance on overtime is tricky as staff get overtime fatigue.

Licences being held up by the DVLA is also a big contributor - the bus industry naturally has a high turnover (potential reasons for this have been discussed in another thread), and when there’s a blockage at the DVLA meaning licences aren’t being renewed, this extra time before new starters can begin is also quite damaging. However, and indeed as you say, another factor outside of GNE’s control.

It wasn’t the Operations Director that Tweeted, it was an Operations Manager (big difference, but I took the point at the time). What he’s chosen to do on his own Twitter feed isn’t aligned to that of the wider PR strategy by Go North East.

When X-lines was being promoted, there was far fewer (barely any) journey cancellations. The world has moved on and all marketing was put on hold - that is clear to see from the social media feed alone, where journey cancellations and ‘#BeKind’ is all that is being promoted currently. I don’t think it’s that much of an own goal, and the only ones using the #BetterThanEver campaign against the company are enthusiasts (who probably aren’t even affected by the journey cancellations anyway).

All that said, in the grand scheme of things (over 8000 journeys being operated daily), the situation seems to be improving daily. Hopefully we’re over the worst of it now, but I still think other operators have a long way to go.

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Andreos1



14,200
05 Oct 2021, 8:30 am #29
(04 Oct 2021, 10:39 pm)Ambassador again tin hat on as this is a close subject to some members and their employers but devils advocate here. 

I’m Go North East. I’m well run. My PR team are a bit lacking but in all, I’m well run by MG.

I run a campaign saying better than ever…then I follow that up with a glossy X Lines campaign. 

I then through not fault of my own cancel a load of services including a lot on my shiny new well advertised X Lines route  however, I knew this was coming. Now either my ops team ain’t talking to my commercial team or someone is making bad calls or being ignored.

Do I put my hands up and say, yeah, bad PR move should have thought this through, you know, like my operations director tweeting about all our great North run resource during resource related service cuts or do I point at other operators who haven’t run high profile campaigns and kept their head down? 

for every marketing win for go north east…genuinely not sure how the marketing team or agency are still in a job, it’s horrible advice.

I think what got me, was the alleged 'I'm alright Jack' mentality within GNE. Or at least from certain individuals within the organisation and their army of sycophants. I mean fans. Fans! That's the word. Fans.
Almost an arrogance that they were OK, other companies were struggling and it was far from acceptable for them to struggle - but Super GNE would step in and save the day if needed. 
Then karma (?) came and bit them on the bum.
'Illegitimis non carborundum'
Andreos1
05 Oct 2021, 8:30 am #29

(04 Oct 2021, 10:39 pm)Ambassador again tin hat on as this is a close subject to some members and their employers but devils advocate here. 

I’m Go North East. I’m well run. My PR team are a bit lacking but in all, I’m well run by MG.

I run a campaign saying better than ever…then I follow that up with a glossy X Lines campaign. 

I then through not fault of my own cancel a load of services including a lot on my shiny new well advertised X Lines route  however, I knew this was coming. Now either my ops team ain’t talking to my commercial team or someone is making bad calls or being ignored.

Do I put my hands up and say, yeah, bad PR move should have thought this through, you know, like my operations director tweeting about all our great North run resource during resource related service cuts or do I point at other operators who haven’t run high profile campaigns and kept their head down? 

for every marketing win for go north east…genuinely not sure how the marketing team or agency are still in a job, it’s horrible advice.

I think what got me, was the alleged 'I'm alright Jack' mentality within GNE. Or at least from certain individuals within the organisation and their army of sycophants. I mean fans. Fans! That's the word. Fans.
Almost an arrogance that they were OK, other companies were struggling and it was far from acceptable for them to struggle - but Super GNE would step in and save the day if needed. 
Then karma (?) came and bit them on the bum.

'Illegitimis non carborundum'

Dan

Website
Site Administrator

18,114
05 Oct 2021, 8:54 am #30
(05 Oct 2021, 8:30 am)Andreos1 I think what got me, was the alleged 'I'm alright Jack' mentality within GNE. Or at least from certain individuals within the organisation and their army of sycophants. I mean fans. Fans! That's the word. Fans.
Almost an arrogance that they were OK, other companies were struggling and it was far from acceptable for them to struggle - but Super GNE would step in and save the day if needed. 
Then karma (?) came and bit them on the bum.

I’m not sure I’ve seen any of the alleged ‘arrogance’ that is being mooted here? Could you provide some examples, please?

You could argue that there’s been some mutual back-patting among operators within the NEbus group, showing how brilliantly things can work with better collaboration, but I’m not sure this has ever stemmed into ‘arrogance’ as you claim.

As enthusiasts on this forum, we have seen a lot of criticism of Gateshead Central Taxis, who have had a staff shortage that long pre-dated the current national labour shortage. We, as enthusiasts and indeed as customers too (in some cases), were critical of this, and recognised that customers deserved better.

We’re seeing similar levels of criticism for Go North East now - some of it justified, perhaps not all. Peter quite succinctly made that point above.


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Dan
05 Oct 2021, 8:54 am #30

(05 Oct 2021, 8:30 am)Andreos1 I think what got me, was the alleged 'I'm alright Jack' mentality within GNE. Or at least from certain individuals within the organisation and their army of sycophants. I mean fans. Fans! That's the word. Fans.
Almost an arrogance that they were OK, other companies were struggling and it was far from acceptable for them to struggle - but Super GNE would step in and save the day if needed. 
Then karma (?) came and bit them on the bum.

I’m not sure I’ve seen any of the alleged ‘arrogance’ that is being mooted here? Could you provide some examples, please?

You could argue that there’s been some mutual back-patting among operators within the NEbus group, showing how brilliantly things can work with better collaboration, but I’m not sure this has ever stemmed into ‘arrogance’ as you claim.

As enthusiasts on this forum, we have seen a lot of criticism of Gateshead Central Taxis, who have had a staff shortage that long pre-dated the current national labour shortage. We, as enthusiasts and indeed as customers too (in some cases), were critical of this, and recognised that customers deserved better.

We’re seeing similar levels of criticism for Go North East now - some of it justified, perhaps not all. Peter quite succinctly made that point above.


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Andreos1



14,200
05 Oct 2021, 9:21 am #31
(05 Oct 2021, 8:54 am)Dan I’m not sure I’ve seen any of the alleged ‘arrogance’ that is being mooted here? Could you provide some examples, please?

You could argue that there’s been some mutual back-patting among operators within the NEbus group, showing how brilliantly things can work with better collaboration, but I’m not sure this has ever stemmed into ‘arrogance’ as you claim.

As enthusiasts on this forum, we have seen a lot of criticism of Gateshead Central Taxis, who have had a staff shortage that long pre-dated the current national labour shortage. We, as enthusiasts and indeed as customers too (in some cases), were critical of this, and recognised that customers deserved better.

We’re seeing similar levels of criticism for Go North East now - some of it justified, perhaps not all. Peter quite succinctly made that point above.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You mean you've not heard any comments from colleagues or seen any comments or emails about these other operators?
Howay man Dan. I thought a guy like yourself would have his finger on the button and know exactly what is being said and who has been saying it. 

GCT did have a shortage. High staff sickness levels and people leaving due to poor management/low wages allegedly.
All during a pandemic. 
I'm not sure the issues are unique or exclusive to them either.
Maybe their lack of back office staff or a smaller engineering base, allowed it to come to the fore prior to a larger organisation who had people performing roles different to the one they normally carry out? Like engineers driving on a weekend or commercial team members out on an evening.

We all know the industry has had traditionally high attrition levels. It has done for years. 
You just need to look at the driver training fleet, open days and recruitment events held by GNE. If attrition was low - it could be argued that those events wouldn't be needed and the training fleet wouldn't be as hard pushed as they have been.
'Illegitimis non carborundum'
Andreos1
05 Oct 2021, 9:21 am #31

(05 Oct 2021, 8:54 am)Dan I’m not sure I’ve seen any of the alleged ‘arrogance’ that is being mooted here? Could you provide some examples, please?

You could argue that there’s been some mutual back-patting among operators within the NEbus group, showing how brilliantly things can work with better collaboration, but I’m not sure this has ever stemmed into ‘arrogance’ as you claim.

As enthusiasts on this forum, we have seen a lot of criticism of Gateshead Central Taxis, who have had a staff shortage that long pre-dated the current national labour shortage. We, as enthusiasts and indeed as customers too (in some cases), were critical of this, and recognised that customers deserved better.

We’re seeing similar levels of criticism for Go North East now - some of it justified, perhaps not all. Peter quite succinctly made that point above.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You mean you've not heard any comments from colleagues or seen any comments or emails about these other operators?
Howay man Dan. I thought a guy like yourself would have his finger on the button and know exactly what is being said and who has been saying it. 

GCT did have a shortage. High staff sickness levels and people leaving due to poor management/low wages allegedly.
All during a pandemic. 
I'm not sure the issues are unique or exclusive to them either.
Maybe their lack of back office staff or a smaller engineering base, allowed it to come to the fore prior to a larger organisation who had people performing roles different to the one they normally carry out? Like engineers driving on a weekend or commercial team members out on an evening.

We all know the industry has had traditionally high attrition levels. It has done for years. 
You just need to look at the driver training fleet, open days and recruitment events held by GNE. If attrition was low - it could be argued that those events wouldn't be needed and the training fleet wouldn't be as hard pushed as they have been.

'Illegitimis non carborundum'

Adrian

Website


9,583
05 Oct 2021, 9:36 am #32
(05 Oct 2021, 9:21 am)Andreos1 We all know the industry has had traditionally high attrition levels. It has done for years. 
You just need to look at the driver training fleet, open days and recruitment events held by GNE. If attrition was low - it could be argued that those events wouldn't be needed and the training fleet wouldn't be as hard pushed as they have been.

It has, and whilst other industries have also suffered, it never seems to be as bad as bus drivers. Whether that be down to pay, conditions or culture (or even a mixture of all three)

Another problem is the race to the bottom culture when bidding for public contracts. This isn't unique to transport operators, but the idea of most economically advantageous bids, leads businesses to reducing costs as much as possible in their bid for the work. The biggest cost is always going to be staff, which is why we've probably seen things like low-cost units develop, in order to 'remain competitive' to win contracts. The downside of that of course, is that you end up creating a multi-tier workforce as a result, where workers doing the same job are paid different rates of pay. The only way you'll really solve this is if sectoral collective bargaining is used, as it is in other parts of Europe.
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Adrian
05 Oct 2021, 9:36 am #32

(05 Oct 2021, 9:21 am)Andreos1 We all know the industry has had traditionally high attrition levels. It has done for years. 
You just need to look at the driver training fleet, open days and recruitment events held by GNE. If attrition was low - it could be argued that those events wouldn't be needed and the training fleet wouldn't be as hard pushed as they have been.

It has, and whilst other industries have also suffered, it never seems to be as bad as bus drivers. Whether that be down to pay, conditions or culture (or even a mixture of all three)

Another problem is the race to the bottom culture when bidding for public contracts. This isn't unique to transport operators, but the idea of most economically advantageous bids, leads businesses to reducing costs as much as possible in their bid for the work. The biggest cost is always going to be staff, which is why we've probably seen things like low-cost units develop, in order to 'remain competitive' to win contracts. The downside of that of course, is that you end up creating a multi-tier workforce as a result, where workers doing the same job are paid different rates of pay. The only way you'll really solve this is if sectoral collective bargaining is used, as it is in other parts of Europe.

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ne14ne1



1,514
12 Oct 2021, 9:25 am #33
“Student brands Go North East a 'waste of time' following weeks of delays”:

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...ssion=true
ne14ne1
12 Oct 2021, 9:25 am #33

“Student brands Go North East a 'waste of time' following weeks of delays”:

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...ssion=true

Train8261



1,016
12 Oct 2021, 9:41 am #34
(12 Oct 2021, 9:25 am)ne14ne1 “Student brands Go North East a 'waste of time' following weeks of delays”:

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...ssion=true
There's nothing that can be done. There's a shortage. Didn't see this much complain when Arriva had shortage back in February/March. You try to tell people There's gonna be cancellation to service and look what happens. Your (the bus company) made out to be the bad person
Train8261
12 Oct 2021, 9:41 am #34

(12 Oct 2021, 9:25 am)ne14ne1 “Student brands Go North East a 'waste of time' following weeks of delays”:

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...ssion=true
There's nothing that can be done. There's a shortage. Didn't see this much complain when Arriva had shortage back in February/March. You try to tell people There's gonna be cancellation to service and look what happens. Your (the bus company) made out to be the bad person

Andreos1



14,200
12 Oct 2021, 10:03 am #35
(12 Oct 2021, 9:41 am)Train8261 There's nothing that can be done. There's a shortage. Didn't see this much complain when Arriva had shortage back in February/March. You try to tell people There's gonna be cancellation to service and look what happens. Your (the bus company) made out to be the bad person

Poor management, low pay, naff conditions and an industry which has traditionally had high turnover. 
Nobody could have predicted the pandemic, but they could have done so much more to ensure that staff turnover was lower prior to it and that drivers didn't move on.

Remember, this is an industry which is down sizing on a regular basis. Routes are consolidated, fleets are made smaller - but recruitment events are held, training fleets are out on the road and pushed to the limits. Those recruitment and events and training fleets wouldn't need to exist if the staff turnover was low.

Operators have been caught with their pants down during the pandemic and haven't been able to stem the usual flow of leavers, with new recruits.
It's as simple as that.
'Illegitimis non carborundum'
Andreos1
12 Oct 2021, 10:03 am #35

(12 Oct 2021, 9:41 am)Train8261 There's nothing that can be done. There's a shortage. Didn't see this much complain when Arriva had shortage back in February/March. You try to tell people There's gonna be cancellation to service and look what happens. Your (the bus company) made out to be the bad person

Poor management, low pay, naff conditions and an industry which has traditionally had high turnover. 
Nobody could have predicted the pandemic, but they could have done so much more to ensure that staff turnover was lower prior to it and that drivers didn't move on.

Remember, this is an industry which is down sizing on a regular basis. Routes are consolidated, fleets are made smaller - but recruitment events are held, training fleets are out on the road and pushed to the limits. Those recruitment and events and training fleets wouldn't need to exist if the staff turnover was low.

Operators have been caught with their pants down during the pandemic and haven't been able to stem the usual flow of leavers, with new recruits.
It's as simple as that.

'Illegitimis non carborundum'

Train8261



1,016
12 Oct 2021, 10:09 am #36
(12 Oct 2021, 10:03 am)Andreos1 Poor management, low pay, naff conditions and an industry which has traditionally had high turnover. 
Nobody could have predicted the pandemic, but they could have done so much more to ensure that staff turnover was lower prior to it and that drivers didn't move on.

Remember, this is an industry which is down sizing on a regular basis. Routes are consolidated, fleets are made smaller - but recruitment events are held, training fleets are out on the road and pushed to the limits. Those recruitment and events and training fleets wouldn't need to exist if the staff turnover was low.

Operators have been caught with their pants down during the pandemic and haven't been able to stem the usual flow of leavers, with new recruits.
It's as simple as that.
But the public don't seem to understand. They want it handed to them on a silver plate. I swear half of them have ethier forgotten or just breeze past that we had a pandemic
Train8261
12 Oct 2021, 10:09 am #36

(12 Oct 2021, 10:03 am)Andreos1 Poor management, low pay, naff conditions and an industry which has traditionally had high turnover. 
Nobody could have predicted the pandemic, but they could have done so much more to ensure that staff turnover was lower prior to it and that drivers didn't move on.

Remember, this is an industry which is down sizing on a regular basis. Routes are consolidated, fleets are made smaller - but recruitment events are held, training fleets are out on the road and pushed to the limits. Those recruitment and events and training fleets wouldn't need to exist if the staff turnover was low.

Operators have been caught with their pants down during the pandemic and haven't been able to stem the usual flow of leavers, with new recruits.
It's as simple as that.
But the public don't seem to understand. They want it handed to them on a silver plate. I swear half of them have ethier forgotten or just breeze past that we had a pandemic

Adrian

Website


9,583
12 Oct 2021, 10:12 am #37
(12 Oct 2021, 10:03 am)Andreos1 Poor management, low pay, naff conditions and an industry which has traditionally had high turnover. 
Nobody could have predicted the pandemic, but they could have done so much more to ensure that staff turnover was lower prior to it and that drivers didn't move on.

Remember, this is an industry which is down sizing on a regular basis. Routes are consolidated, fleets are made smaller - but recruitment events are held, training fleets are out on the road and pushed to the limits. Those recruitment and events and training fleets wouldn't need to exist if the staff turnover was low.

Operators have been caught with their pants down during the pandemic and haven't been able to stem the usual flow of leavers, with new recruits.
It's as simple as that.

Exactly this. Its disingenuous to solely blame Brexit and Covid. They are factors yes, but by far the biggest factor is the staff retention issue right across the industry.

As you say, this is completely within the industry's control, and collectively this should have been addressed years ago.

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Adrian
12 Oct 2021, 10:12 am #37

(12 Oct 2021, 10:03 am)Andreos1 Poor management, low pay, naff conditions and an industry which has traditionally had high turnover. 
Nobody could have predicted the pandemic, but they could have done so much more to ensure that staff turnover was lower prior to it and that drivers didn't move on.

Remember, this is an industry which is down sizing on a regular basis. Routes are consolidated, fleets are made smaller - but recruitment events are held, training fleets are out on the road and pushed to the limits. Those recruitment and events and training fleets wouldn't need to exist if the staff turnover was low.

Operators have been caught with their pants down during the pandemic and haven't been able to stem the usual flow of leavers, with new recruits.
It's as simple as that.

Exactly this. Its disingenuous to solely blame Brexit and Covid. They are factors yes, but by far the biggest factor is the staff retention issue right across the industry.

As you say, this is completely within the industry's control, and collectively this should have been addressed years ago.

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Adrian

Website


9,583
12 Oct 2021, 10:13 am #38
(12 Oct 2021, 10:09 am)Train8261 But the public don't seem to understand. They want it handed to them on a silver plate. I swear half of them have ethier forgotten or just breeze past that we had a pandemic
They want the service advertised and that they're paying. That's not expecting it 'handed to them on a silver plate'

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Adrian
12 Oct 2021, 10:13 am #38

(12 Oct 2021, 10:09 am)Train8261 But the public don't seem to understand. They want it handed to them on a silver plate. I swear half of them have ethier forgotten or just breeze past that we had a pandemic
They want the service advertised and that they're paying. That's not expecting it 'handed to them on a silver plate'

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Train8261



1,016
12 Oct 2021, 10:18 am #39
(12 Oct 2021, 10:13 am)Adrian They want the service advertised and that they're paying. That's not expecting it 'handed to them on a silver plate'

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I'm saying there's people out there still complaining about it even when there given days notice. The fact is the public don't understand how bad its hit business. How many complaining did you see to Arriva when they were hit with driver shortages. Go North East are at least telling people there's gonna be service cancellations. Is any other services doing this. (Possibly not thay I've seen) yet go North East are hit with complain left right and centre.
I mean Go North East this year alone have been hit by the media a ton of times. (Pay to drivers, Cancel of service, Service changes) you name it
Edited 12 Oct 2021, 10:20 am by Train8261.
Train8261
12 Oct 2021, 10:18 am #39

(12 Oct 2021, 10:13 am)Adrian They want the service advertised and that they're paying. That's not expecting it 'handed to them on a silver plate'

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
I'm saying there's people out there still complaining about it even when there given days notice. The fact is the public don't understand how bad its hit business. How many complaining did you see to Arriva when they were hit with driver shortages. Go North East are at least telling people there's gonna be service cancellations. Is any other services doing this. (Possibly not thay I've seen) yet go North East are hit with complain left right and centre.
I mean Go North East this year alone have been hit by the media a ton of times. (Pay to drivers, Cancel of service, Service changes) you name it

Adrian

Website


9,583
12 Oct 2021, 10:31 am #40
(12 Oct 2021, 10:18 am)Train8261 I'm saying there's people out there still complaining about it even when there given days notice. The fact is the public don't understand how bad its hit business. How many complaining did you see to Arriva when they were hit with driver shortages. Go North East are at least telling people there's gonna be service cancellations. Is any other services doing this. (Possibly not thay I've seen) yet go North East are hit with complain left right and centre.
I mean Go North East this year alone have been hit by the media a ton of times. (Pay to drivers, Cancel of service, Service changes) you name it
Its not about one single operator. Its the industry as a whole, as I've said in my post.

You don't need to turn it into a competition (or more appropriately, a race to the bottom), every time someone questions the approach of your favourite operator.

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Adrian
12 Oct 2021, 10:31 am #40

(12 Oct 2021, 10:18 am)Train8261 I'm saying there's people out there still complaining about it even when there given days notice. The fact is the public don't understand how bad its hit business. How many complaining did you see to Arriva when they were hit with driver shortages. Go North East are at least telling people there's gonna be service cancellations. Is any other services doing this. (Possibly not thay I've seen) yet go North East are hit with complain left right and centre.
I mean Go North East this year alone have been hit by the media a ton of times. (Pay to drivers, Cancel of service, Service changes) you name it
Its not about one single operator. Its the industry as a whole, as I've said in my post.

You don't need to turn it into a competition (or more appropriately, a race to the bottom), every time someone questions the approach of your favourite operator.

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