North Shields Regeneration Plan
North Shields Regeneration Plan
(01 Sep 2023, 9:18 pm)Ambassador Is it really an infrastructure development of note though?
You’ve (well not you directly of course) built an interchange station nobody wanted. Buses served the centre, the metro station is what it is and the ferry is so badly integrated you’d be better off swimming.
The compelling reason to visit has to be the retail or bespoke offering which doesn’t exist. Fish Quay is car and taxi heavy and North Shields town centre is an utter dive.
The sensible investment would have been to lower rates, encourage investment in the town, open up bespoke retail, leisure etc then think about a shiny new interchange.
(01 Sep 2023, 9:18 pm)Ambassador Is it really an infrastructure development of note though?
You’ve (well not you directly of course) built an interchange station nobody wanted. Buses served the centre, the metro station is what it is and the ferry is so badly integrated you’d be better off swimming.
The compelling reason to visit has to be the retail or bespoke offering which doesn’t exist. Fish Quay is car and taxi heavy and North Shields town centre is an utter dive.
The sensible investment would have been to lower rates, encourage investment in the town, open up bespoke retail, leisure etc then think about a shiny new interchange.
(01 Sep 2023, 10:06 pm)Storx It's a waste of money imo, the only place where bus stations should exist is where people are realistically going to swap methods of transport. Beyond that does it really matter. The vast majority of people won't spend more than 10 minutes there anyway and if they have to walk further it's arguably it's a negative in the case for North Shields.The former PTEs are obsessed with having bus stations. In Nexus case it’s to encourage more people to travel by Metro by having buses stop outside at Metro stations.
Personally, I'd much rather be able to get off at Nile Street then have the choice to get on at Bedford Street or near the library, now I wouldn't have that choice and must use the bus station miles away from the library for example.
It's a very British thing to build bus stations, similar could've been said for South Shields aswell which arguably could've been built as a massive loop around the town letting people choose where they actually want to be rather than being told where to go.
(01 Sep 2023, 10:06 pm)Storx It's a waste of money imo, the only place where bus stations should exist is where people are realistically going to swap methods of transport. Beyond that does it really matter. The vast majority of people won't spend more than 10 minutes there anyway and if they have to walk further it's arguably it's a negative in the case for North Shields.The former PTEs are obsessed with having bus stations. In Nexus case it’s to encourage more people to travel by Metro by having buses stop outside at Metro stations.
Personally, I'd much rather be able to get off at Nile Street then have the choice to get on at Bedford Street or near the library, now I wouldn't have that choice and must use the bus station miles away from the library for example.
It's a very British thing to build bus stations, similar could've been said for South Shields aswell which arguably could've been built as a massive loop around the town letting people choose where they actually want to be rather than being told where to go.
(02 Sep 2023, 7:51 am)busmanT The former PTEs are obsessed with having bus stations. In Nexus case it’s to encourage more people to travel by Metro by having buses stop outside at Metro stations.
(02 Sep 2023, 7:51 am)busmanT The former PTEs are obsessed with having bus stations. In Nexus case it’s to encourage more people to travel by Metro by having buses stop outside at Metro stations.
What worries me now though is that if they see this as a resounding success (which they probably will), then i wonder how long it'll be before another one pops up in another dying town like Wallsend, cus imo, when Wilkos shuts its doors, i wonder how long the rest of the Beacon Centre will last, theres already plenty of empty shops, whoever said it (cant remember who) but rents/taxes should of been lowered to encourage growth, before spaffing millions on a bus station, and that wasted space where all the plants and seats are, could of been put to better use imo, like a small indoor market joined onto the bus station, nobody is gonna wanna use that bus station, especially when all the scum come out to play
(01 Sep 2023, 10:06 pm)Storx It's a waste of money imo, the only place where bus stations should exist is where people are realistically going to swap methods of transport. Beyond that does it really matter. The vast majority of people won't spend more than 10 minutes there anyway and if they have to walk further it's arguably it's a negative in the case for North Shields.
Personally, I'd much rather be able to get off at Nile Street then have the choice to get on at Bedford Street or near the library, now I wouldn't have that choice and must use the bus station miles away from the library for example.
It's a very British thing to build bus stations, similar could've been said for South Shields aswell which arguably could've been built as a massive loop around the town letting people choose where they actually want to be rather than being told where to go.
(01 Sep 2023, 10:06 pm)Storx It's a waste of money imo, the only place where bus stations should exist is where people are realistically going to swap methods of transport. Beyond that does it really matter. The vast majority of people won't spend more than 10 minutes there anyway and if they have to walk further it's arguably it's a negative in the case for North Shields.
Personally, I'd much rather be able to get off at Nile Street then have the choice to get on at Bedford Street or near the library, now I wouldn't have that choice and must use the bus station miles away from the library for example.
It's a very British thing to build bus stations, similar could've been said for South Shields aswell which arguably could've been built as a massive loop around the town letting people choose where they actually want to be rather than being told where to go.
(02 Sep 2023, 11:17 am)V514DFT What worries me now though is that if they see this as a resounding success (which they probably will), then i wonder how long it'll be before another one pops up in another dying town like Wallsend, cus imo, when Wilkos shuts its doors, i wonder how long the rest of the Beacon Centre will last, theres already plenty of empty shops, whoever said it (cant remember who) but rents/taxes should of been lowered to encourage growth, before spaffing millions on a bus station, and that wasted space where all the plants and seats are, could of been put to better use imo, like a small indoor market joined onto the bus station, nobody is gonna wanna use that bus station, especially when all the scum come out to play
(02 Sep 2023, 11:17 am)V514DFT What worries me now though is that if they see this as a resounding success (which they probably will), then i wonder how long it'll be before another one pops up in another dying town like Wallsend, cus imo, when Wilkos shuts its doors, i wonder how long the rest of the Beacon Centre will last, theres already plenty of empty shops, whoever said it (cant remember who) but rents/taxes should of been lowered to encourage growth, before spaffing millions on a bus station, and that wasted space where all the plants and seats are, could of been put to better use imo, like a small indoor market joined onto the bus station, nobody is gonna wanna use that bus station, especially when all the scum come out to play
(02 Sep 2023, 12:07 pm)RMF1254 Wallsend already has a bus station, just a shame that operators have pulled some services out of it. I think there are plans to revitalise it and make it more pleasant!
(02 Sep 2023, 12:07 pm)RMF1254 Wallsend already has a bus station, just a shame that operators have pulled some services out of it. I think there are plans to revitalise it and make it more pleasant!
New transport hub and town square opens in North Shields with official ceremony
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...g-27640062
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-66696440
(02 Sep 2023, 7:51 am)busmanT The former PTEs are obsessed with having bus stations. In Nexus case it’s to encourage more people to travel by Metro by having buses stop outside at Metro stations.
(02 Sep 2023, 7:51 am)busmanT The former PTEs are obsessed with having bus stations. In Nexus case it’s to encourage more people to travel by Metro by having buses stop outside at Metro stations.
(02 Sep 2023, 5:03 pm)Storx See, I could get that if it was a sensible place to connect but can't really see where anyone would want to.
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Personally I always think bus stations are bad as one of the massive advantages of buses is they can get right into the heart of the city and stop at numerous spots which a car can't where you usually have to park away from where you want to be. So let's say if it was Newcastle, you could get your bus from Gosforth right through to Central Station and then gradually head back to the top end of Northumberland Street and get on (which you can do with the Metro). Once you start sticking a bus station at places like Haymarket it loses that advantage over the car, so why bother?
It's even worse if it's somewhere like Sunderland, Durham and Bishop Auckland where all 3 bus stations are in the backend of nowhere and the car actually has an advantage.
I know I've mentioned it before but it works well in Darlington where you can get on/off at Northgate but then have the choice to use Tubwell Row instead which are pretty much both ends of the town. I'd also love to see some councils to reverse some pedestrianisation schemes and get buses closer to the action in some places aswell.
(02 Sep 2023, 6:21 pm)RMF1254 Which was what Wallsend was when Metro opened, most services either called or terminated there with staff facilities on site. Deregulation put a stop to all that!
(02 Sep 2023, 5:03 pm)Storx See, I could get that if it was a sensible place to connect but can't really see where anyone would want to.
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Personally I always think bus stations are bad as one of the massive advantages of buses is they can get right into the heart of the city and stop at numerous spots which a car can't where you usually have to park away from where you want to be. So let's say if it was Newcastle, you could get your bus from Gosforth right through to Central Station and then gradually head back to the top end of Northumberland Street and get on (which you can do with the Metro). Once you start sticking a bus station at places like Haymarket it loses that advantage over the car, so why bother?
It's even worse if it's somewhere like Sunderland, Durham and Bishop Auckland where all 3 bus stations are in the backend of nowhere and the car actually has an advantage.
I know I've mentioned it before but it works well in Darlington where you can get on/off at Northgate but then have the choice to use Tubwell Row instead which are pretty much both ends of the town. I'd also love to see some councils to reverse some pedestrianisation schemes and get buses closer to the action in some places aswell.
(02 Sep 2023, 6:21 pm)RMF1254 Which was what Wallsend was when Metro opened, most services either called or terminated there with staff facilities on site. Deregulation put a stop to all that!
(02 Sep 2023, 8:47 pm)Adrian Having a bus station doesn't stop buses serving the heart of town and city centres, I'd say it actually improves their ability to do so, if done correctly.
You can use Durham as an example, seeing as they're temporarily without a bus station. North Road is chaos, and you can't get moved. The buses struggle to get on correct stands, and there's no space for layovers or welfare facilities for staff.
Attracting people back to town and city centres is a huge part of regeneration programmes, and transport stations play a role in that. A proper, dry and safe waiting environment, rather than being stood out in the rain.
I don't buy the argument that the bus stations are in the back end of nowhere. Sunderland Interchange is a very short walk from the Bridges, Eldon Square is part of Eldon Square shopping centre and a couple minutes walk from Northumberland Street, and Durham is a 5 minute walk from the market place.
I'm not sure why people can go to these centres, walk round for hours shopping, then suddenly lose their ability to walk the short distance back to a bus station?
I do think bus stations could be additionally complimented by running a city circular service in and out of the bus stations. This may provide additional support to the elderly and disabled. Durham has it with the Cathedral bus, Sunderland has it (to a degree) with the 700, but nothing in Newcastle.
Hopefully, one on the fix list, when we get franchising...!
Sent from my SM-S916B using Tapatalk
(02 Sep 2023, 8:47 pm)Adrian Having a bus station doesn't stop buses serving the heart of town and city centres, I'd say it actually improves their ability to do so, if done correctly.
You can use Durham as an example, seeing as they're temporarily without a bus station. North Road is chaos, and you can't get moved. The buses struggle to get on correct stands, and there's no space for layovers or welfare facilities for staff.
Attracting people back to town and city centres is a huge part of regeneration programmes, and transport stations play a role in that. A proper, dry and safe waiting environment, rather than being stood out in the rain.
I don't buy the argument that the bus stations are in the back end of nowhere. Sunderland Interchange is a very short walk from the Bridges, Eldon Square is part of Eldon Square shopping centre and a couple minutes walk from Northumberland Street, and Durham is a 5 minute walk from the market place.
I'm not sure why people can go to these centres, walk round for hours shopping, then suddenly lose their ability to walk the short distance back to a bus station?
I do think bus stations could be additionally complimented by running a city circular service in and out of the bus stations. This may provide additional support to the elderly and disabled. Durham has it with the Cathedral bus, Sunderland has it (to a degree) with the 700, but nothing in Newcastle.
Hopefully, one on the fix list, when we get franchising...!
Sent from my SM-S916B using Tapatalk
Slightly off subject, but when I am travelling around, I am quite surprised how many places in Yorkshire have bus stations and they seem to love them down there. Thinking of Heckmondwike, Castleford and Cleckheaton to name a couple.
I do think some of them are quite a way from the main shopping centres too like Wakefield but that one, everytime I have been there always seems well used.
(03 Sep 2023, 7:31 am)citaro5284 Slightly off subject, but when I am travelling around, I am quite surprised how many places in Yorkshire have bus stations and they seem to love them down there. Thinking of Heckmondwike, Castleford and Cleckheaton to name a couple.
I do think some of them are quite a way from the main shopping centres too like Wakefield but that one, everytime I have been there always seems well used.
(03 Sep 2023, 7:31 am)citaro5284 Slightly off subject, but when I am travelling around, I am quite surprised how many places in Yorkshire have bus stations and they seem to love them down there. Thinking of Heckmondwike, Castleford and Cleckheaton to name a couple.
I do think some of them are quite a way from the main shopping centres too like Wakefield but that one, everytime I have been there always seems well used.
(03 Sep 2023, 7:47 am)Storx Part of the West Yorkshire 'Metro' wasn't it? Must give them credit, they're by far one of the best ones around given the serious limitations they have since any form of tram / metro has been blocked in Leeds over and over again.
Complete opposite of Nexus, who half the time you question whether they actually know what they're doing with fantasy ideas and everything else pretty much failing, the fact we still don't have any form of sensible integrated ticketing is just embarrassing at this point.
£22.10 a week for unlimited uses of buses in West Yorkshire, is excellent value for money imo.
(03 Sep 2023, 7:47 am)Storx Part of the West Yorkshire 'Metro' wasn't it? Must give them credit, they're by far one of the best ones around given the serious limitations they have since any form of tram / metro has been blocked in Leeds over and over again.
Complete opposite of Nexus, who half the time you question whether they actually know what they're doing with fantasy ideas and everything else pretty much failing, the fact we still don't have any form of sensible integrated ticketing is just embarrassing at this point.
£22.10 a week for unlimited uses of buses in West Yorkshire, is excellent value for money imo.
(03 Sep 2023, 9:41 am)Rob44 i was going to say thats about the same as up here but WOW 30 quid for a all zone tyne and wear pass!!
(03 Sep 2023, 9:41 am)Rob44 i was going to say thats about the same as up here but WOW 30 quid for a all zone tyne and wear pass!!
(02 Sep 2023, 9:33 pm)Storx I have to disagree personally, I just find them generally a nuisance where they are. I'm all for proper interchanges, as I do think they are needed as you can't control timings but most the bus stations are just in the wrong place. Gateshead for example is a great interchange as it actually works with the Metro.
Park Lane on the otherhand is a long trek for example if someone is going to the Fire Station or Nando's which are both pretty reasonable reasons to be there and it's a grim waiting experience nevertheless anyway.
You have to remember your trying to fight against cars here who can go wherever they want, having a bus which can drop you off at one end of the street and then you can get on at the other end is literally a selling point. Having a bus station further away that the nearest car park is a massive negative, why bother using the bus? Not to mention if it's somewhere like Haymarket it's absolutely useless if you need to haul a case through to get on a train at Central.
Obviously we could go into the argument whether most these buses should exist AT ALL and people should be using an interchange to get onto a Metro train or tram, miles out of town, which takes you right into the heart of the city underground or on unique tracks with integrated ticketing and more frequent services on the connecting services rather than having 5 buses all trying to serve here there and everywhere but we live in Britain and public transport is just an inconvience to our politicians. It's pretty much how it works in every other country in the world and ironically Newcastle and Sunderland already have the Metro to do that, you just can't connect to it or it misses the most dense populations.
(03 Sep 2023, 7:31 am)citaro5284 Slightly off subject, but when I am travelling around, I am quite surprised how many places in Yorkshire have bus stations and they seem to love them down there. Thinking of Heckmondwike, Castleford and Cleckheaton to name a couple.
I do think some of them are quite a way from the main shopping centres too like Wakefield but that one, everytime I have been there always seems well used.
(02 Sep 2023, 9:33 pm)Storx I have to disagree personally, I just find them generally a nuisance where they are. I'm all for proper interchanges, as I do think they are needed as you can't control timings but most the bus stations are just in the wrong place. Gateshead for example is a great interchange as it actually works with the Metro.
Park Lane on the otherhand is a long trek for example if someone is going to the Fire Station or Nando's which are both pretty reasonable reasons to be there and it's a grim waiting experience nevertheless anyway.
You have to remember your trying to fight against cars here who can go wherever they want, having a bus which can drop you off at one end of the street and then you can get on at the other end is literally a selling point. Having a bus station further away that the nearest car park is a massive negative, why bother using the bus? Not to mention if it's somewhere like Haymarket it's absolutely useless if you need to haul a case through to get on a train at Central.
Obviously we could go into the argument whether most these buses should exist AT ALL and people should be using an interchange to get onto a Metro train or tram, miles out of town, which takes you right into the heart of the city underground or on unique tracks with integrated ticketing and more frequent services on the connecting services rather than having 5 buses all trying to serve here there and everywhere but we live in Britain and public transport is just an inconvience to our politicians. It's pretty much how it works in every other country in the world and ironically Newcastle and Sunderland already have the Metro to do that, you just can't connect to it or it misses the most dense populations.
(03 Sep 2023, 7:31 am)citaro5284 Slightly off subject, but when I am travelling around, I am quite surprised how many places in Yorkshire have bus stations and they seem to love them down there. Thinking of Heckmondwike, Castleford and Cleckheaton to name a couple.
I do think some of them are quite a way from the main shopping centres too like Wakefield but that one, everytime I have been there always seems well used.
(03 Sep 2023, 6:39 pm)Adrian Is the Fire Station a long trek from Park Lane? It's only a 5 minute walk straight down and through the Bridges. Nandos, a little less so, but not a great distance at all. If you absolutely can't manage it, then there's a whole host of services from Park Lane/Stockton Road to Fawcett Street, which cuts the walk right down.
As I've said time and time again, you're never going to win the battle against cars for shoppers. Buses aren't designed to cater for shoppers; they haven't got any space for shopping, for a start. Leisure trade, then I think it's fair game, as unless you've got someone on soft drinks willing to drive, then the bus is the most effective and can be the cheapest option.
In the years ahead, I think we'll end up seeing more and more town and city centre streets become pedestrianised, in the long battle to improve air quality. Buses with renewable fuels have to be part of the solution to that, but the Great British public are also going to need to get used to using their feet more.
Even Leeds bus station, by the argument presented on here, is in the completely wrong place and at the bottom of the hill to all the shops. It doesn't seem to stop it being really well used.
(03 Sep 2023, 6:39 pm)Adrian Is the Fire Station a long trek from Park Lane? It's only a 5 minute walk straight down and through the Bridges. Nandos, a little less so, but not a great distance at all. If you absolutely can't manage it, then there's a whole host of services from Park Lane/Stockton Road to Fawcett Street, which cuts the walk right down.
As I've said time and time again, you're never going to win the battle against cars for shoppers. Buses aren't designed to cater for shoppers; they haven't got any space for shopping, for a start. Leisure trade, then I think it's fair game, as unless you've got someone on soft drinks willing to drive, then the bus is the most effective and can be the cheapest option.
In the years ahead, I think we'll end up seeing more and more town and city centre streets become pedestrianised, in the long battle to improve air quality. Buses with renewable fuels have to be part of the solution to that, but the Great British public are also going to need to get used to using their feet more.
Even Leeds bus station, by the argument presented on here, is in the completely wrong place and at the bottom of the hill to all the shops. It doesn't seem to stop it being really well used.
Creating bus hub interchanges etc is a scam...
Nexus knows this and it is why they milked the pot
We have cllrs elected locally by residents
Some cllrs get out onto committees to approve white elephants
Nexus proposes white elephants
It is approved to build
Bus stations make a profit and the money is hidden within Nexus
Sunderland interchange is a classic example
No stagecoach goes into the bus station... why? Because every bus that enters the station is charged 60p-80p for the pleasure
Same as Haymarket and Eldon Sqaure and every other bus station...
And you wonder why Stagecoach oftens opts to using stops outside of bus station due to operational issues" or altering routes to avoid bus stations like 317 for example...
Now... as an example
Haymarket bus station ...
How many buses depart an hour and times that by 70p as a ball point average...
Mitigate that with the cost of Nexus manager to run the site (goes home after 5pm) we often see arriva staff managing the site not Nexus...
Combine the income with the rent of Greggs Arriva pub M&S
And general expenses is a Nexus employee working 9-5 and electric for the lights (bins are local council)
There is a reason bus stations are built....and that is to claim poverty.
