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Peterlee Purples | New Re-Brand For Peterlee's Bus Service.

Peterlee Purples | New Re-Brand For Peterlee's Bus Service.

 
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Keeiajs

563891

1,026
14 Nov 2021, 12:09 am #21
(13 Nov 2021, 11:56 pm)Wybus Regarding the 55, X1 being on top of each other

Surely if the 55 was changed to run 5 minutes earlier and the X1 changed to run 15 minutes later, (I.e same times as now, just changing which journeys run to Peterlee/Dalton Park) there would be a better split of services

From Easington Lane it would be 09 (55), 24 (X1), 39 (55), 47 (62)
And from Peterlee it would be 17 (62), 29 (55), 45 (X1), 59 (55)

Also if the X6 was moved to run half an hour later than currently it would both give a better spacing of journeys between Seaham and Sunderland with the 62 than currently, and also mean the 38A doesn’t need to be interworked with it?
Tbf is the X1 Peterlee/Dalton Park journeys were switched that would be for the better, as the X1 to Newcastle from DP comes the same time as the X10 to Newcastle, same with the X9 coming 10 mins earlier.

Bring back the X7, Peterlee - DP - Down Deneside (Avenue) - Dawdone - Seaham - Grangetown Asda - Essen Way - Premier RD - Straight Dwon the A690 Stopping at Sunderland College/Burn park - Sunderland
Keeiajs
14 Nov 2021, 12:09 am #21

(13 Nov 2021, 11:56 pm)Wybus Regarding the 55, X1 being on top of each other

Surely if the 55 was changed to run 5 minutes earlier and the X1 changed to run 15 minutes later, (I.e same times as now, just changing which journeys run to Peterlee/Dalton Park) there would be a better split of services

From Easington Lane it would be 09 (55), 24 (X1), 39 (55), 47 (62)
And from Peterlee it would be 17 (62), 29 (55), 45 (X1), 59 (55)

Also if the X6 was moved to run half an hour later than currently it would both give a better spacing of journeys between Seaham and Sunderland with the 62 than currently, and also mean the 38A doesn’t need to be interworked with it?
Tbf is the X1 Peterlee/Dalton Park journeys were switched that would be for the better, as the X1 to Newcastle from DP comes the same time as the X10 to Newcastle, same with the X9 coming 10 mins earlier.

Bring back the X7, Peterlee - DP - Down Deneside (Avenue) - Dawdone - Seaham - Grangetown Asda - Essen Way - Premier RD - Straight Dwon the A690 Stopping at Sunderland College/Burn park - Sunderland

Dan

Site Administrator

18,100
14 Nov 2021, 6:00 am #22
(13 Nov 2021, 11:56 pm)Wybus Regarding the 55, X1 being on top of each other

Surely if the 55 was changed to run 5 minutes earlier and the X1 changed to run 15 minutes later, (I.e same times as now, just changing which journeys run to Peterlee/Dalton Park) there would be a better split of services

From Easington Lane it would be 09 (55), 24 (X1), 39 (55), 47 (62)
And from Peterlee it would be 17 (62), 29 (55), 45 (X1), 59 (55)

Also if the X6 was moved to run half an hour later than currently it would both give a better spacing of journeys between Seaham and Sunderland with the 62 than currently, and also mean the 38A doesn’t need to be interworked with it?


Whilst I agree with all these comments about co-ordination, there are reasons behind it.

For the 55, the timetable is driven by shift patterns at Doxford International. In a new world post-Covid where patronage here is far less with remote work continuing, it is perhaps time to move away from that and look at where co-ordination would be beneficial to more customers. For me personally, it would be more advantageous to customers to offer a 7-8 minute frequency headway from East Herrington into Sunderland (with the 20 and X20), but you could also look at something like the X1, 55 and 62.

The 62 elsewhere on its route is a difficult one to fix, due to the interworking cycle. There have been comments about poor co-ordination between the 62 and X6 but when the two services interwork, you’re very limited in what you can do without adding an extra bus to the cycle.

It’s absolutely not about trying to kill off any service but there’s more to consider than one specific corridor.

The other favourite on here is the poor co-ordination of the 71 and 78 between Chester-le-Street and Great Lumley - but when the timetable for the 78 is co-ordinated with the 8, and the 8 is co-ordinated with the 35 from Castletown to Sunderland, and the 35 is co-ordinated with something else on another section of its route, it all gets quite tricky to achieve. Ironically a lot of the network is driven by bus station departure times, such as Durham where there aren’t enough stands to meet the service provision.


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Dan
14 Nov 2021, 6:00 am #22

(13 Nov 2021, 11:56 pm)Wybus Regarding the 55, X1 being on top of each other

Surely if the 55 was changed to run 5 minutes earlier and the X1 changed to run 15 minutes later, (I.e same times as now, just changing which journeys run to Peterlee/Dalton Park) there would be a better split of services

From Easington Lane it would be 09 (55), 24 (X1), 39 (55), 47 (62)
And from Peterlee it would be 17 (62), 29 (55), 45 (X1), 59 (55)

Also if the X6 was moved to run half an hour later than currently it would both give a better spacing of journeys between Seaham and Sunderland with the 62 than currently, and also mean the 38A doesn’t need to be interworked with it?


Whilst I agree with all these comments about co-ordination, there are reasons behind it.

For the 55, the timetable is driven by shift patterns at Doxford International. In a new world post-Covid where patronage here is far less with remote work continuing, it is perhaps time to move away from that and look at where co-ordination would be beneficial to more customers. For me personally, it would be more advantageous to customers to offer a 7-8 minute frequency headway from East Herrington into Sunderland (with the 20 and X20), but you could also look at something like the X1, 55 and 62.

The 62 elsewhere on its route is a difficult one to fix, due to the interworking cycle. There have been comments about poor co-ordination between the 62 and X6 but when the two services interwork, you’re very limited in what you can do without adding an extra bus to the cycle.

It’s absolutely not about trying to kill off any service but there’s more to consider than one specific corridor.

The other favourite on here is the poor co-ordination of the 71 and 78 between Chester-le-Street and Great Lumley - but when the timetable for the 78 is co-ordinated with the 8, and the 8 is co-ordinated with the 35 from Castletown to Sunderland, and the 35 is co-ordinated with something else on another section of its route, it all gets quite tricky to achieve. Ironically a lot of the network is driven by bus station departure times, such as Durham where there aren’t enough stands to meet the service provision.


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Andreos1



14,155
14 Nov 2021, 11:20 am #23
(14 Nov 2021, 6:00 am)Dan Whilst I agree with all these comments about co-ordination, there are reasons behind it.

For the 55, the timetable is driven by shift patterns at Doxford International. In a new world post-Covid where patronage here is far less with remote work continuing, it is perhaps time to move away from that and look at where co-ordination would be beneficial to more customers. For me personally, it would be more advantageous to customers to offer a 7-8 minute frequency headway from East Herrington into Sunderland (with the 20 and X20), but you could also look at something like the X1, 55 and 62.

The 62 elsewhere on its route is a difficult one to fix, due to the interworking cycle. There have been comments about poor co-ordination between the 62 and X6 but when the two services interwork, you’re very limited in what you can do without adding an extra bus to the cycle.

It’s absolutely not about trying to kill off any service but there’s more to consider than one specific corridor.

The other favourite on here is the poor co-ordination of the 71 and 78 between Chester-le-Street and Great Lumley - but when the timetable for the 78 is co-ordinated with the 8, and the 8 is co-ordinated with the 35 from Castletown to Sunderland, and the 35 is co-ordinated with something else on another section of its route, it all gets quite tricky to achieve. Ironically a lot of the network is driven by bus station departure times, such as Durham where there aren’t enough stands to meet the service provision.


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Which means naff all in the grand scheme of things, when the 71 is stand-alone and could easily have its timetable tweaked to improve its headway with the 78.

The 35 fits around the 8, which fits around the 78 (no major timetable changes with the latter for many a year if I remember correctly - always a quarter to and quarter past from Park Lane with the 638 being bottom of the hour and 777 top of the hour). 
Absolutely nothing to do with the 71 running. That's just poor planning. Or not?

'Illegitimis non carborundum'
Andreos1
14 Nov 2021, 11:20 am #23

(14 Nov 2021, 6:00 am)Dan Whilst I agree with all these comments about co-ordination, there are reasons behind it.

For the 55, the timetable is driven by shift patterns at Doxford International. In a new world post-Covid where patronage here is far less with remote work continuing, it is perhaps time to move away from that and look at where co-ordination would be beneficial to more customers. For me personally, it would be more advantageous to customers to offer a 7-8 minute frequency headway from East Herrington into Sunderland (with the 20 and X20), but you could also look at something like the X1, 55 and 62.

The 62 elsewhere on its route is a difficult one to fix, due to the interworking cycle. There have been comments about poor co-ordination between the 62 and X6 but when the two services interwork, you’re very limited in what you can do without adding an extra bus to the cycle.

It’s absolutely not about trying to kill off any service but there’s more to consider than one specific corridor.

The other favourite on here is the poor co-ordination of the 71 and 78 between Chester-le-Street and Great Lumley - but when the timetable for the 78 is co-ordinated with the 8, and the 8 is co-ordinated with the 35 from Castletown to Sunderland, and the 35 is co-ordinated with something else on another section of its route, it all gets quite tricky to achieve. Ironically a lot of the network is driven by bus station departure times, such as Durham where there aren’t enough stands to meet the service provision.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Which means naff all in the grand scheme of things, when the 71 is stand-alone and could easily have its timetable tweaked to improve its headway with the 78.

The 35 fits around the 8, which fits around the 78 (no major timetable changes with the latter for many a year if I remember correctly - always a quarter to and quarter past from Park Lane with the 638 being bottom of the hour and 777 top of the hour). 
Absolutely nothing to do with the 71 running. That's just poor planning. Or not?


'Illegitimis non carborundum'

Keeiajs

563891

1,026
14 Nov 2021, 12:29 pm #24
(14 Nov 2021, 6:00 am)Dan Whilst I agree with all these comments about co-ordination, there are reasons behind it.

For the 55, the timetable is driven by shift patterns at Doxford International. In a new world post-Covid where patronage here is far less with remote work continuing, it is perhaps time to move away from that and look at where co-ordination would be beneficial to more customers. For me personally, it would be more advantageous to customers to offer a 7-8 minute frequency headway from East Herrington into Sunderland (with the 20 and X20), but you could also look at something like the X1, 55 and 62.

The 62 elsewhere on its route is a difficult one to fix, due to the interworking cycle. There have been comments about poor co-ordination between the 62 and X6 but when the two services interwork, you’re very limited in what you can do without adding an extra bus to the cycle.

It’s absolutely not about trying to kill off any service but there’s more to consider than one specific corridor.

The other favourite on here is the poor co-ordination of the 71 and 78 between Chester-le-Street and Great Lumley - but when the timetable for the 78 is co-ordinated with the 8, and the 8 is co-ordinated with the 35 from Castletown to Sunderland, and the 35 is co-ordinated with something else on another section of its route, it all gets quite tricky to achieve. Ironically a lot of the network is driven by bus station departure times, such as Durham where there aren’t enough stands to meet the service provision.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think the 35/X20/55 are all badly timed leaving Sunderland to West Park (a690) all leaving between 10 mins of each other, down the same set of road, leaving the 20 for 40 mins to cover the busy section. They could all be retimed especially the X20. And the 8/78 leaving Stanley is about 5 mins apart. 
Aswell the X1 is so badly timed with the X10/X9 to Newcaslte, if you switch the times that they go to Peterlee & dalton park that will solve that.
Keeiajs
14 Nov 2021, 12:29 pm #24

(14 Nov 2021, 6:00 am)Dan Whilst I agree with all these comments about co-ordination, there are reasons behind it.

For the 55, the timetable is driven by shift patterns at Doxford International. In a new world post-Covid where patronage here is far less with remote work continuing, it is perhaps time to move away from that and look at where co-ordination would be beneficial to more customers. For me personally, it would be more advantageous to customers to offer a 7-8 minute frequency headway from East Herrington into Sunderland (with the 20 and X20), but you could also look at something like the X1, 55 and 62.

The 62 elsewhere on its route is a difficult one to fix, due to the interworking cycle. There have been comments about poor co-ordination between the 62 and X6 but when the two services interwork, you’re very limited in what you can do without adding an extra bus to the cycle.

It’s absolutely not about trying to kill off any service but there’s more to consider than one specific corridor.

The other favourite on here is the poor co-ordination of the 71 and 78 between Chester-le-Street and Great Lumley - but when the timetable for the 78 is co-ordinated with the 8, and the 8 is co-ordinated with the 35 from Castletown to Sunderland, and the 35 is co-ordinated with something else on another section of its route, it all gets quite tricky to achieve. Ironically a lot of the network is driven by bus station departure times, such as Durham where there aren’t enough stands to meet the service provision.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think the 35/X20/55 are all badly timed leaving Sunderland to West Park (a690) all leaving between 10 mins of each other, down the same set of road, leaving the 20 for 40 mins to cover the busy section. They could all be retimed especially the X20. And the 8/78 leaving Stanley is about 5 mins apart. 
Aswell the X1 is so badly timed with the X10/X9 to Newcaslte, if you switch the times that they go to Peterlee & dalton park that will solve that.

DeltaMan



556
14 Nov 2021, 1:21 pm #25
(14 Nov 2021, 11:20 am)Andreos1 Which means naff all in the grand scheme of things, when the 71 is stand-alone and could easily have its timetable tweaked to improve its headway with the 78.

The 35 fits around the 8, which fits around the 78 (no major timetable changes with the latter for many a year if I remember correctly - always a quarter to and quarter past from Park Lane with the 638 being bottom of the hour and 777 top of the hour). 
Absolutely nothing to do with the 71 running. That's just poor planning. Or not?

The 71 is a complete red herring in this instance as the cycle time of the 71 doing Chester-Seaham-Chester (120 mins). So a nice round number. But it's out of sync with the 78 doing Chester-Sunderland-Chester (92mins without layover at Chester) So you'd have to change the 78 timetable and everything else that may interfere with it fit the 71 in better.
DeltaMan
14 Nov 2021, 1:21 pm #25

(14 Nov 2021, 11:20 am)Andreos1 Which means naff all in the grand scheme of things, when the 71 is stand-alone and could easily have its timetable tweaked to improve its headway with the 78.

The 35 fits around the 8, which fits around the 78 (no major timetable changes with the latter for many a year if I remember correctly - always a quarter to and quarter past from Park Lane with the 638 being bottom of the hour and 777 top of the hour). 
Absolutely nothing to do with the 71 running. That's just poor planning. Or not?

The 71 is a complete red herring in this instance as the cycle time of the 71 doing Chester-Seaham-Chester (120 mins). So a nice round number. But it's out of sync with the 78 doing Chester-Sunderland-Chester (92mins without layover at Chester) So you'd have to change the 78 timetable and everything else that may interfere with it fit the 71 in better.

N1cholas



243
14 Nov 2021, 1:27 pm #26
(14 Nov 2021, 12:29 pm)Keeiajs I think the 35/X20/55 are all badly timed leaving Sunderland to West Park (a690) all leaving between 10 mins of each other, down the same set of road, leaving the 20 for 40 mins to cover the busy section. They could all be retimed especially the X20. And the 8/78 leaving Stanley is about 5 mins apart. 
Aswell the X1 is so badly timed with the X10/X9 to Newcaslte, if you switch the times that they go to Peterlee & dalton park that will solve that.
The 35 and X20 are both half hourly services so how is the 20 left with the section on its own for 40 mins? the 20 runs every 15 mins so even if the X20 is retimed 5 mins later there is still a chance the 20 and X20 will run behind each other from park lane to the board inn and vice versa, the 35 serves sunderland royal hospital so offers different connections to the 20 so passengers will wait for the 35 if that is where they need to be, then you have all the stagecoach services running up ad down durham road too, there is plenty of choice for users to use up durham road so retiming a couple will make no difference at all to this busy corridor
N1cholas
14 Nov 2021, 1:27 pm #26

(14 Nov 2021, 12:29 pm)Keeiajs I think the 35/X20/55 are all badly timed leaving Sunderland to West Park (a690) all leaving between 10 mins of each other, down the same set of road, leaving the 20 for 40 mins to cover the busy section. They could all be retimed especially the X20. And the 8/78 leaving Stanley is about 5 mins apart. 
Aswell the X1 is so badly timed with the X10/X9 to Newcaslte, if you switch the times that they go to Peterlee & dalton park that will solve that.
The 35 and X20 are both half hourly services so how is the 20 left with the section on its own for 40 mins? the 20 runs every 15 mins so even if the X20 is retimed 5 mins later there is still a chance the 20 and X20 will run behind each other from park lane to the board inn and vice versa, the 35 serves sunderland royal hospital so offers different connections to the 20 so passengers will wait for the 35 if that is where they need to be, then you have all the stagecoach services running up ad down durham road too, there is plenty of choice for users to use up durham road so retiming a couple will make no difference at all to this busy corridor

Storx



4,482
14 Nov 2021, 1:51 pm #27
The timetables are the least of the issues imo on this type of corridors. The thing that is worse is the numbers being all over the place so people will just let them go anyway regardless as it's a different number totally so 'probably' takes another route.

They really need to assign blocks in particular in Sunderland and try and assign numbers so all the routes along each corridor have a block of numbers.

8/78
2/2A/39/39A/78
60/61/62/2/2A/39/39A
20/35/55/X20

8 = 8
78 = 7
2/2A = 70/71
39/39A = 72/73
60/61/62 = Leave the same
X6 = X60
35/35A = 35/34
55 = 36
20/X20 = Leave the same

Means the blocks would be instead:

7/8
7/70/71/72/73
60/61/62/70/71/72/73
20/35/36/X20

Then you can just say catch the 7's upto every 5 minutes along Chester Road or catch the 60's/70's to Grangetown similar to what everyone does with the 40's in Newcastle to Gosforth or the 60's to Killingworth. I also don't like A's for the sake of it.
Storx
14 Nov 2021, 1:51 pm #27

The timetables are the least of the issues imo on this type of corridors. The thing that is worse is the numbers being all over the place so people will just let them go anyway regardless as it's a different number totally so 'probably' takes another route.

They really need to assign blocks in particular in Sunderland and try and assign numbers so all the routes along each corridor have a block of numbers.

8/78
2/2A/39/39A/78
60/61/62/2/2A/39/39A
20/35/55/X20

8 = 8
78 = 7
2/2A = 70/71
39/39A = 72/73
60/61/62 = Leave the same
X6 = X60
35/35A = 35/34
55 = 36
20/X20 = Leave the same

Means the blocks would be instead:

7/8
7/70/71/72/73
60/61/62/70/71/72/73
20/35/36/X20

Then you can just say catch the 7's upto every 5 minutes along Chester Road or catch the 60's/70's to Grangetown similar to what everyone does with the 40's in Newcastle to Gosforth or the 60's to Killingworth. I also don't like A's for the sake of it.

Dan

Site Administrator

18,100
14 Nov 2021, 2:25 pm #28
(14 Nov 2021, 11:20 am)Andreos1 Which means naff all in the grand scheme of things, when the 71 is stand-alone and could easily have its timetable tweaked to improve its headway with the 78.

The 35 fits around the 8, which fits around the 78 (no major timetable changes with the latter for many a year if I remember correctly - always a quarter to and quarter past from Park Lane with the 638 being bottom of the hour and 777 top of the hour). 
Absolutely nothing to do with the 71 running. That's just poor planning. Or not?

The 71 was secured between Houghton-le-Spring and Seaham and ran at the times specified in the contract, so the commercially operated section between Houghton-le-Spring and Chester-le-Street ran at the times it did because of the contracted times on the other section of the route.

This means that the 78 would need to be re-timed to fit around the 71, to maintain an even headway between Chester-le-Street and Great Lumley on these services. But to do that, the 8 would also need to be re-timed, then the 35 too. The challenge with this is that the 35 is secured on an evening so needs to run at the times it does so that it easily runs onto the secured evening service without impacting on customers.

As I said before, it’s not that simple and there’s a wider context to be considered. It’s not within anyone’s interests to have a poorly planned timetable with uneven headways on common sections of route.

Appreciate customers don’t care about any of this and they’d prefer an even headway on services, but given this is an enthusiasts’ forum, we can have a greater appreciation for the logistics and why things aren’t as simple as one might think at first.


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Dan
14 Nov 2021, 2:25 pm #28

(14 Nov 2021, 11:20 am)Andreos1 Which means naff all in the grand scheme of things, when the 71 is stand-alone and could easily have its timetable tweaked to improve its headway with the 78.

The 35 fits around the 8, which fits around the 78 (no major timetable changes with the latter for many a year if I remember correctly - always a quarter to and quarter past from Park Lane with the 638 being bottom of the hour and 777 top of the hour). 
Absolutely nothing to do with the 71 running. That's just poor planning. Or not?

The 71 was secured between Houghton-le-Spring and Seaham and ran at the times specified in the contract, so the commercially operated section between Houghton-le-Spring and Chester-le-Street ran at the times it did because of the contracted times on the other section of the route.

This means that the 78 would need to be re-timed to fit around the 71, to maintain an even headway between Chester-le-Street and Great Lumley on these services. But to do that, the 8 would also need to be re-timed, then the 35 too. The challenge with this is that the 35 is secured on an evening so needs to run at the times it does so that it easily runs onto the secured evening service without impacting on customers.

As I said before, it’s not that simple and there’s a wider context to be considered. It’s not within anyone’s interests to have a poorly planned timetable with uneven headways on common sections of route.

Appreciate customers don’t care about any of this and they’d prefer an even headway on services, but given this is an enthusiasts’ forum, we can have a greater appreciation for the logistics and why things aren’t as simple as one might think at first.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Andreos1



14,155
14 Nov 2021, 3:39 pm #29
(14 Nov 2021, 2:25 pm)Dan The 71 was secured between Houghton-le-Spring and Seaham and ran at the times specified in the contract, so the commercially operated section between Houghton-le-Spring and Chester-le-Street ran at the times it did because of the contracted times on the other section of the route.

This means that the 78 would need to be re-timed to fit around the 71, to maintain an even headway between Chester-le-Street and Great Lumley on these services. But to do that, the 8 would also need to be re-timed, then the 35 too. The challenge with this is that the 35 is secured on an evening so needs to run at the times it does so that it easily runs onto the secured evening service without impacting on customers.

As I said before, it’s not that simple and there’s a wider context to be considered. It’s not within anyone’s interests to have a poorly planned timetable with uneven headways on common sections of route.

Appreciate customers don’t care about any of this and they’d prefer an even headway on services, but given this is an enthusiasts’ forum, we can have a greater appreciation for the logistics and why things aren’t as simple as one might think at first.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And the 14 years it wasn't secured (including the period when it was the 36)? What was the reasoning for the headway issue then?

I know it's a big if. Huge in fact. 
If GNE took on the Houghton - Seaham side commercially on a full time basis, then they would be able to do all sorts with it. Including managing the commercial part of the route in a more effective manner. Maybe even making it a success!
Taking on a contracted route, integrating it with a struggling commercial service and then seeing that commercial service hamstrung to the point we've been told it's not viable... Well, it's not really the best decision that's ever been made.

It's interesting you mention that the 35 timetable needs to be maintained with its secured evening counterpart.
Why doesn't the Sunday 78 tie in with its weekday equivalent?

'Illegitimis non carborundum'
Andreos1
14 Nov 2021, 3:39 pm #29

(14 Nov 2021, 2:25 pm)Dan The 71 was secured between Houghton-le-Spring and Seaham and ran at the times specified in the contract, so the commercially operated section between Houghton-le-Spring and Chester-le-Street ran at the times it did because of the contracted times on the other section of the route.

This means that the 78 would need to be re-timed to fit around the 71, to maintain an even headway between Chester-le-Street and Great Lumley on these services. But to do that, the 8 would also need to be re-timed, then the 35 too. The challenge with this is that the 35 is secured on an evening so needs to run at the times it does so that it easily runs onto the secured evening service without impacting on customers.

As I said before, it’s not that simple and there’s a wider context to be considered. It’s not within anyone’s interests to have a poorly planned timetable with uneven headways on common sections of route.

Appreciate customers don’t care about any of this and they’d prefer an even headway on services, but given this is an enthusiasts’ forum, we can have a greater appreciation for the logistics and why things aren’t as simple as one might think at first.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And the 14 years it wasn't secured (including the period when it was the 36)? What was the reasoning for the headway issue then?

I know it's a big if. Huge in fact. 
If GNE took on the Houghton - Seaham side commercially on a full time basis, then they would be able to do all sorts with it. Including managing the commercial part of the route in a more effective manner. Maybe even making it a success!
Taking on a contracted route, integrating it with a struggling commercial service and then seeing that commercial service hamstrung to the point we've been told it's not viable... Well, it's not really the best decision that's ever been made.

It's interesting you mention that the 35 timetable needs to be maintained with its secured evening counterpart.
Why doesn't the Sunday 78 tie in with its weekday equivalent?


'Illegitimis non carborundum'

Dan

Site Administrator

18,100
14 Nov 2021, 3:53 pm #30
(14 Nov 2021, 3:39 pm)Andreos1 And the 14 years it wasn't secured (including the period when it was the 36)? What was the reasoning for the headway issue then?

I know it's a big if. Huge in fact. 
If GNE took on the Houghton - Seaham side commercially, then they would be able to do all sorts with it. Including managing the commercial part of the route in a more effective manner.
Taking on a contracted route, integrating it with a struggling commercial service and then seeing that commercial service hamstrung... Well, it's not really the best decision that's ever been made.

It's interesting you mention that the 35 timetable needs to be maintained with its secured evening counterpart.
Why doesn't the Sunday 78 tie in with its weekday equivalent?

Without wishing to get this thread too off-topic (I don't know what relevance the 71 has to Peterlee Purples), wasn't the 36 timed to co-ordinate with the 35..?
Dan
14 Nov 2021, 3:53 pm #30

(14 Nov 2021, 3:39 pm)Andreos1 And the 14 years it wasn't secured (including the period when it was the 36)? What was the reasoning for the headway issue then?

I know it's a big if. Huge in fact. 
If GNE took on the Houghton - Seaham side commercially, then they would be able to do all sorts with it. Including managing the commercial part of the route in a more effective manner.
Taking on a contracted route, integrating it with a struggling commercial service and then seeing that commercial service hamstrung... Well, it's not really the best decision that's ever been made.

It's interesting you mention that the 35 timetable needs to be maintained with its secured evening counterpart.
Why doesn't the Sunday 78 tie in with its weekday equivalent?

Without wishing to get this thread too off-topic (I don't know what relevance the 71 has to Peterlee Purples), wasn't the 36 timed to co-ordinate with the 35..?

Keeiajs

563891

1,026
14 Nov 2021, 7:05 pm #31
(14 Nov 2021, 1:27 pm)N1cholas The 35 and X20 are both half hourly services so how is the 20 left with the section on its own for 40 mins? the 20 runs every 15 mins so even if the X20 is retimed 5 mins later there is still a chance the 20 and X20 will run behind each other from park lane to the board inn and vice versa, the 35 serves sunderland royal hospital so offers different connections to the 20 so passengers will wait for the 35 if that is where they need to be, then you have all the stagecoach services running up ad down durham road too, there is plenty of choice for users to use up durham road so retiming a couple will make no difference at all to this busy corridor
In fact when the 35 leaves it meets up with X20 at Toby Carvary. And the 20 is left for arounf 40 mins, as X20/35/55 all leave within 10 mins of each other. And the 20 normally leaves with the X20 or 55.
Keeiajs
14 Nov 2021, 7:05 pm #31

(14 Nov 2021, 1:27 pm)N1cholas The 35 and X20 are both half hourly services so how is the 20 left with the section on its own for 40 mins? the 20 runs every 15 mins so even if the X20 is retimed 5 mins later there is still a chance the 20 and X20 will run behind each other from park lane to the board inn and vice versa, the 35 serves sunderland royal hospital so offers different connections to the 20 so passengers will wait for the 35 if that is where they need to be, then you have all the stagecoach services running up ad down durham road too, there is plenty of choice for users to use up durham road so retiming a couple will make no difference at all to this busy corridor
In fact when the 35 leaves it meets up with X20 at Toby Carvary. And the 20 is left for arounf 40 mins, as X20/35/55 all leave within 10 mins of each other. And the 20 normally leaves with the X20 or 55.

14 Nov 2021, 7:31 pm #32
(14 Nov 2021, 7:05 pm)Keeiajs In fact when the 35 leaves it meets up with X20 at Toby Carvary. And the 20 is left for arounf 40 mins, as X20/35/55 all leave within 10 mins of each other. And the 20 normally leaves with the X20 or 55.

It's kind of irrelevant either way, if people are going to Houghton they're going to get the X20 or 20, very rarely do people jump on the 35 or 55 even if there's a bit of a gap til the next quick bus. The 35 and 55 are more for people going to the places they exclusively serve and not Houghton itself.
deanmachine
14 Nov 2021, 7:31 pm #32

(14 Nov 2021, 7:05 pm)Keeiajs In fact when the 35 leaves it meets up with X20 at Toby Carvary. And the 20 is left for arounf 40 mins, as X20/35/55 all leave within 10 mins of each other. And the 20 normally leaves with the X20 or 55.

It's kind of irrelevant either way, if people are going to Houghton they're going to get the X20 or 20, very rarely do people jump on the 35 or 55 even if there's a bit of a gap til the next quick bus. The 35 and 55 are more for people going to the places they exclusively serve and not Houghton itself.

Keeiajs

563891

1,026
14 Nov 2021, 7:51 pm #33
(14 Nov 2021, 1:51 pm)Storx The timetables are the least of the issues imo on this type of corridors. The thing that is worse is the numbers being all over the place so people will just let them go anyway regardless as it's a different number totally so 'probably' takes another route.

They really need to assign blocks in particular in Sunderland and try and assign numbers so all the routes along each corridor have a block of numbers.

8/78
2/2A/39/39A/78
60/61/62/2/2A/39/39A
20/35/55/X20

8 = 8
78 = 7
2/2A = 70/71
39/39A = 72/73
60/61/62 = Leave the same
X6 = X60
35/35A = 35/34
55 = 36
20/X20 = Leave the same

Means the blocks would be instead:

7/8
7/70/71/72/73
60/61/62/70/71/72/73
20/35/36/X20

Then you can just say catch the 7's upto every 5 minutes along Chester Road or catch the 60's/70's to Grangetown similar to what everyone does with the 40's in Newcastle to Gosforth or the 60's to Killingworth. I also don't like A's for the sake of it.
You could also change the peterlee purples to be renumbered. I must say the number 70-73 doesn't really work, as you have the 73 from Sunderland - Concord, and 71 seaham-cls
Keeiajs
14 Nov 2021, 7:51 pm #33

(14 Nov 2021, 1:51 pm)Storx The timetables are the least of the issues imo on this type of corridors. The thing that is worse is the numbers being all over the place so people will just let them go anyway regardless as it's a different number totally so 'probably' takes another route.

They really need to assign blocks in particular in Sunderland and try and assign numbers so all the routes along each corridor have a block of numbers.

8/78
2/2A/39/39A/78
60/61/62/2/2A/39/39A
20/35/55/X20

8 = 8
78 = 7
2/2A = 70/71
39/39A = 72/73
60/61/62 = Leave the same
X6 = X60
35/35A = 35/34
55 = 36
20/X20 = Leave the same

Means the blocks would be instead:

7/8
7/70/71/72/73
60/61/62/70/71/72/73
20/35/36/X20

Then you can just say catch the 7's upto every 5 minutes along Chester Road or catch the 60's/70's to Grangetown similar to what everyone does with the 40's in Newcastle to Gosforth or the 60's to Killingworth. I also don't like A's for the sake of it.
You could also change the peterlee purples to be renumbered. I must say the number 70-73 doesn't really work, as you have the 73 from Sunderland - Concord, and 71 seaham-cls

cbma06



2,669
14 Nov 2021, 8:58 pm #34
(14 Nov 2021, 7:51 pm)Keeiajs You could also change the peterlee purples to be renumbered. I must say the number 70-73 doesn't really work, as you have the 73 from Sunderland - Concord, and 71 seaham-cls


Could also change the brand name to little purples, then you can have the 204/204A and 59 in that brand as anyone knows if Peterlee does the 204 then you probably going to see a Peterlee purple solo on there , also the 38A service wouldn’t have Peterlee branded , you don’t see Washington mini network as Washington pinks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


cbma06
14 Nov 2021, 8:58 pm #34

(14 Nov 2021, 7:51 pm)Keeiajs You could also change the peterlee purples to be renumbered. I must say the number 70-73 doesn't really work, as you have the 73 from Sunderland - Concord, and 71 seaham-cls


Could also change the brand name to little purples, then you can have the 204/204A and 59 in that brand as anyone knows if Peterlee does the 204 then you probably going to see a Peterlee purple solo on there , also the 38A service wouldn’t have Peterlee branded , you don’t see Washington mini network as Washington pinks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Andreos1



14,155
14 Nov 2021, 9:19 pm #35
(14 Nov 2021, 3:53 pm)Dan Without wishing to get this thread too off-topic (I don't know what relevance the 71 has to Peterlee Purples), wasn't the 36 timed to co-ordinate with the 35..?

If I remember correctly, the 36 kept the same timetable on the Chester - Houghton as the original 71.

Will make sure it's in the relevant thread next time I reply to your post about the 71.
Sorry for continuing on with a subject you brought up Wink

'Illegitimis non carborundum'
Andreos1
14 Nov 2021, 9:19 pm #35

(14 Nov 2021, 3:53 pm)Dan Without wishing to get this thread too off-topic (I don't know what relevance the 71 has to Peterlee Purples), wasn't the 36 timed to co-ordinate with the 35..?

If I remember correctly, the 36 kept the same timetable on the Chester - Houghton as the original 71.

Will make sure it's in the relevant thread next time I reply to your post about the 71.
Sorry for continuing on with a subject you brought up Wink


'Illegitimis non carborundum'

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