North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses
North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses
There are numerous ways CONC reimbursements are calculated to ensure a bus operator is "no better or worse off", most of them pretty complex and non of them I am aware only look at average single fares as there has to be an assumption that some of those passholder would have bought day or weekly tickets if it wasn't for the free pass.
There is a nice 120 page guide on the DfT website for those wanting knowledge of the matter and the actual guidance for calculations
(18 Nov 2021, 9:58 pm)DeltaMan There are numerous ways CONC reimbursements are calculated to ensure a bus operator is "no better or worse off", most of them pretty complex and non of them I am aware only look at average single fares as there has to be an assumption that some of those passholder would have bought day or weekly tickets if it wasn't for the free pass.Some light bedtime reading there. No thanks lol ?
There is a nice 120 page guide on the DfT website for those wanting knowledge of the matter and the actual guidance for calculations
(18 Nov 2021, 9:58 pm)DeltaMan There are numerous ways CONC reimbursements are calculated to ensure a bus operator is "no better or worse off", most of them pretty complex and non of them I am aware only look at average single fares as there has to be an assumption that some of those passholder would have bought day or weekly tickets if it wasn't for the free pass.Some light bedtime reading there. No thanks lol ?
There is a nice 120 page guide on the DfT website for those wanting knowledge of the matter and the actual guidance for calculations
(18 Nov 2021, 8:23 pm)54APhotography Hence why I buy Day Rider Plus or All zones
(18 Nov 2021, 11:04 pm)idiot Some light bedtime reading there. No thanks lol ?
(18 Nov 2021, 8:23 pm)54APhotography Hence why I buy Day Rider Plus or All zones
(18 Nov 2021, 11:04 pm)idiot Some light bedtime reading there. No thanks lol ?
Surprised no-one has linked this but it's the plan - https://www.transportnortheast.gov.uk/wp..._FINAL.pdf
Some noticeable things:
Network One Daily Caps:
T&W - £5
Northumberland - £5
Durham - £4
All Zones - £6.80
Super Route Green (Every 10 Mins) and Red Routes (Every 5 Mins) map - P99
Night Bus Network - P102
The Bus Corridors for Improvements - P120
Park and Ride sites - P129
There's an awful lot of them planned, more than expected tbh.
P141 - A nice graph saying the reasons people aren't using the bus from the Big Bus Survey that I'm sure Andreos1 will enjoy.
(22 Nov 2021, 9:54 pm)Storx Surprised no-one has linked this but it's the plan - https://www.transportnortheast.gov.uk/wp..._FINAL.pdf
Some noticeable things:
Network One Daily Caps:
T&W - £5
Northumberland - £5
Durham - £4
All Zones - £6.80
Super Route Green (Every 10 Mins) and Red Routes (Every 5 Mins) map - P99
Night Bus Network - P102
The Bus Corridors for Improvements - P120
Park and Ride sites - P129
There's an awful lot of them planned, more than expected tbh.
P141 - A nice graph saying the reasons people aren't using the bus from the Big Bus Survey that I'm sure Andreos1 will enjoy.
(22 Nov 2021, 9:54 pm)Storx Surprised no-one has linked this but it's the plan - https://www.transportnortheast.gov.uk/wp..._FINAL.pdf
Some noticeable things:
Network One Daily Caps:
T&W - £5
Northumberland - £5
Durham - £4
All Zones - £6.80
Super Route Green (Every 10 Mins) and Red Routes (Every 5 Mins) map - P99
Night Bus Network - P102
The Bus Corridors for Improvements - P120
Park and Ride sites - P129
There's an awful lot of them planned, more than expected tbh.
P141 - A nice graph saying the reasons people aren't using the bus from the Big Bus Survey that I'm sure Andreos1 will enjoy.
(22 Nov 2021, 10:08 pm)Adrian Cheers - without going through it word for word, I think it's the same document that I have listed on my site and posted last week. The version I have was extracted out of the JTC minutes before it was published on there though, so it wasn't accessible.
I have added it to the list
(22 Nov 2021, 10:08 pm)Adrian Cheers - without going through it word for word, I think it's the same document that I have listed on my site and posted last week. The version I have was extracted out of the JTC minutes before it was published on there though, so it wasn't accessible.
I have added it to the list
The night bus network is very interesting (to me at least anyways, already being on the Deptford night rota). I do think having the same as day time routes helps a lot, and think this could help the 56 get even stronger with more links for Nissan. A few regulars already go to Newcastle and I have a feeling the have a bit of a walk home after they get off in Market Street. I'm sure other shift workers will be equally as happy, but I think there could be a few more links elsewhere in the network, an all night number 4 as well as the 20. I'm glad the night network seems to cover the whole Metro network during the night too.
Another point, a lot of these "superbus green routes" are currently at every 12 minutes or 15 minutes, I wonder if this means more investment in putting them back to every 10 minutes, as there's not many 10 minute services anymore. Take the 20 for example, there's been 4 streetlites taken out of the PVR since they were first introduced back in 2016, all of which would probably need to be put back in to make it a reliable 10 minute service again.
(23 Nov 2021, 5:45 pm)deanmachine The night bus network is very interesting (to me at least anyways, already being on the Deptford night rota). I do think having the same as day time routes helps a lot, and think this could help the 56 get even stronger with more links for Nissan. A few regulars already go to Newcastle and I have a feeling the have a bit of a walk home after they get off in Market Street. I'm sure other shift workers will be equally as happy, but I think there could be a few more links elsewhere in the network, an all night number 4 as well as the 20. I'm glad the night network seems to cover the whole Metro network during the night too.
Another point, a lot of these "superbus green routes" are currently at every 12 minutes or 15 minutes, I wonder if this means more investment in putting them back to every 10 minutes, as there's not many 10 minute services anymore. Take the 20 for example, there's been 4 streetlites taken out of the PVR since they were first introduced back in 2016, all of which would probably need to be put back in to make it a reliable 10 minute service again.
(23 Nov 2021, 5:45 pm)deanmachine The night bus network is very interesting (to me at least anyways, already being on the Deptford night rota). I do think having the same as day time routes helps a lot, and think this could help the 56 get even stronger with more links for Nissan. A few regulars already go to Newcastle and I have a feeling the have a bit of a walk home after they get off in Market Street. I'm sure other shift workers will be equally as happy, but I think there could be a few more links elsewhere in the network, an all night number 4 as well as the 20. I'm glad the night network seems to cover the whole Metro network during the night too.
Another point, a lot of these "superbus green routes" are currently at every 12 minutes or 15 minutes, I wonder if this means more investment in putting them back to every 10 minutes, as there's not many 10 minute services anymore. Take the 20 for example, there's been 4 streetlites taken out of the PVR since they were first introduced back in 2016, all of which would probably need to be put back in to make it a reliable 10 minute service again.
(22 Nov 2021, 9:54 pm)Storx Surprised no-one has linked this but it's the plan - https://www.transportnortheast.gov.uk/wp..._FINAL.pdf
Some noticeable things:
Network One Daily Caps:
T&W - £5
Northumberland - £5
Durham - £4
All Zones - £6.80
Super Route Green (Every 10 Mins) and Red Routes (Every 5 Mins) map - P99
Night Bus Network - P102
The Bus Corridors for Improvements - P120
Park and Ride sites - P129
There's an awful lot of them planned, more than expected tbh.
P141 - A nice graph saying the reasons people aren't using the bus from the Big Bus Survey that I'm sure Andreos1 will enjoy.
Despite the insights gathered from the Big Bus Conversation, there is still scope to further the research into the attitudes of people who never use the bus at all, so that we have an enhanced body of research at a regional, strategic level to drive patronage growth and modal share.
(22 Nov 2021, 9:54 pm)Storx Surprised no-one has linked this but it's the plan - https://www.transportnortheast.gov.uk/wp..._FINAL.pdf
Some noticeable things:
Network One Daily Caps:
T&W - £5
Northumberland - £5
Durham - £4
All Zones - £6.80
Super Route Green (Every 10 Mins) and Red Routes (Every 5 Mins) map - P99
Night Bus Network - P102
The Bus Corridors for Improvements - P120
Park and Ride sites - P129
There's an awful lot of them planned, more than expected tbh.
P141 - A nice graph saying the reasons people aren't using the bus from the Big Bus Survey that I'm sure Andreos1 will enjoy.
Despite the insights gathered from the Big Bus Conversation, there is still scope to further the research into the attitudes of people who never use the bus at all, so that we have an enhanced body of research at a regional, strategic level to drive patronage growth and modal share.
(23 Nov 2021, 5:45 pm)deanmachine The night bus network is very interesting (to me at least anyways, already being on the Deptford night rota). I do think having the same as day time routes helps a lot, and think this could help the 56 get even stronger with more links for Nissan. A few regulars already go to Newcastle and I have a feeling the have a bit of a walk home after they get off in Market Street. I'm sure other shift workers will be equally as happy, but I think there could be a few more links elsewhere in the network, an all night number 4 as well as the 20. I'm glad the night network seems to cover the whole Metro network during the night too.
Another point, a lot of these "superbus green routes" are currently at every 12 minutes or 15 minutes, I wonder if this means more investment in putting them back to every 10 minutes, as there's not many 10 minute services anymore. Take the 20 for example, there's been 4 streetlites taken out of the PVR since they were first introduced back in 2016, all of which would probably need to be put back in to make it a reliable 10 minute service again.
(23 Nov 2021, 5:49 pm)Dan It’s probably more about corridors than individual routes - the 20/55/X20 for example offer a 7-8 min frequency between East Herrington and Sunderland.
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(23 Nov 2021, 5:45 pm)deanmachine The night bus network is very interesting (to me at least anyways, already being on the Deptford night rota). I do think having the same as day time routes helps a lot, and think this could help the 56 get even stronger with more links for Nissan. A few regulars already go to Newcastle and I have a feeling the have a bit of a walk home after they get off in Market Street. I'm sure other shift workers will be equally as happy, but I think there could be a few more links elsewhere in the network, an all night number 4 as well as the 20. I'm glad the night network seems to cover the whole Metro network during the night too.
Another point, a lot of these "superbus green routes" are currently at every 12 minutes or 15 minutes, I wonder if this means more investment in putting them back to every 10 minutes, as there's not many 10 minute services anymore. Take the 20 for example, there's been 4 streetlites taken out of the PVR since they were first introduced back in 2016, all of which would probably need to be put back in to make it a reliable 10 minute service again.
(23 Nov 2021, 5:49 pm)Dan It’s probably more about corridors than individual routes - the 20/55/X20 for example offer a 7-8 min frequency between East Herrington and Sunderland.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
(23 Nov 2021, 5:45 pm)deanmachine The night bus network is very interesting (to me at least anyways, already being on the Deptford night rota). I do think having the same as day time routes helps a lot, and think this could help the 56 get even stronger with more links for Nissan. A few regulars already go to Newcastle and I have a feeling the have a bit of a walk home after they get off in Market Street. I'm sure other shift workers will be equally as happy, but I think there could be a few more links elsewhere in the network, an all night number 4 as well as the 20. I'm glad the night network seems to cover the whole Metro network during the night too.Really afaik
Another point, a lot of these "superbus green routes" are currently at every 12 minutes or 15 minutes, I wonder if this means more investment in putting them back to every 10 minutes, as there's not many 10 minute services anymore. Take the 20 for example, there's been 4 streetlites taken out of the PVR since they were first introduced back in 2016, all of which would probably need to be put back in to make it a reliable 10 minute service again.
(23 Nov 2021, 5:45 pm)deanmachine The night bus network is very interesting (to me at least anyways, already being on the Deptford night rota). I do think having the same as day time routes helps a lot, and think this could help the 56 get even stronger with more links for Nissan. A few regulars already go to Newcastle and I have a feeling the have a bit of a walk home after they get off in Market Street. I'm sure other shift workers will be equally as happy, but I think there could be a few more links elsewhere in the network, an all night number 4 as well as the 20. I'm glad the night network seems to cover the whole Metro network during the night too.Really afaik
Another point, a lot of these "superbus green routes" are currently at every 12 minutes or 15 minutes, I wonder if this means more investment in putting them back to every 10 minutes, as there's not many 10 minute services anymore. Take the 20 for example, there's been 4 streetlites taken out of the PVR since they were first introduced back in 2016, all of which would probably need to be put back in to make it a reliable 10 minute service again.
(23 Nov 2021, 10:57 pm)Keeiajs Really afaik
20/60/56/X1/21 have all be cut down. They don't need any extra buses for these, they already have them, they have just been painted or some instances are still in the livery of the brand.
(23 Nov 2021, 10:57 pm)Keeiajs Really afaik
20/60/56/X1/21 have all be cut down. They don't need any extra buses for these, they already have them, they have just been painted or some instances are still in the livery of the brand.
(23 Nov 2021, 10:48 pm)Storx Yeah agreed mind the arguably busiest part of the Metro outside the core isn't covered at all which is a bit of a surprise from Jesmond -> Whitley Bay excluding FLE without any services to Team Valley, Cobalt or Quorum which you'd think there would be some demand. Not sure what you could do though without doing a TFL type night bus which only exists in the evening. It would arguably be better for the 22 aswell which is a bit confusing and out of area.
(23 Nov 2021, 10:48 pm)Storx Yeah agreed mind the arguably busiest part of the Metro outside the core isn't covered at all which is a bit of a surprise from Jesmond -> Whitley Bay excluding FLE without any services to Team Valley, Cobalt or Quorum which you'd think there would be some demand. Not sure what you could do though without doing a TFL type night bus which only exists in the evening. It would arguably be better for the 22 aswell which is a bit confusing and out of area.
(24 Nov 2021, 12:05 am)Storx Reading through the lines but it's not exactly clear what it is. X Lines etc are on borrowed time to be replaced by Super Route Red (Every 5 Mins), Super Route Green (Every 10 Mins), Interurban Express (Every 15 Mins), Connect (Every 30 Mins) and Rural (Less Frequent) with DRT thrown in aswell.
The X30/X31/X70/X71/X72 (GNE) X14/X15/X18 (Arriva) are all to be Interurban Express though.
The 1/2/57/57A/New 30 Min Cramington -> Morpeth (Arriva) are all to be Connect services. (Page 101)
(24 Nov 2021, 12:05 am)Storx Reading through the lines but it's not exactly clear what it is. X Lines etc are on borrowed time to be replaced by Super Route Red (Every 5 Mins), Super Route Green (Every 10 Mins), Interurban Express (Every 15 Mins), Connect (Every 30 Mins) and Rural (Less Frequent) with DRT thrown in aswell.
The X30/X31/X70/X71/X72 (GNE) X14/X15/X18 (Arriva) are all to be Interurban Express though.
The 1/2/57/57A/New 30 Min Cramington -> Morpeth (Arriva) are all to be Connect services. (Page 101)
Reading page 102. Shows Night buses. Expanding the Night network but one has me confused. 22 Newcastle to Whitley Bay via Wallsend North Shields & Tynemouth
Other routes including
43 Newcastle to Cramlington
308 Newcastle to Blyth
63 West Denton to Killingworth
X88 Newcastle to Airport
10 Newcastle to Prudhoe
97 Newcastle to Metrocentre
30 Newcastle to North Kenton
1 Coach Lane Campus to Slatyford
27 Newcastle to South Shields
39/40 Wallsend/Walkergate to Dumpling Hall/Chapel House
30 Newcastle to Silver Lonnen
(24 Nov 2021, 12:05 am)Storx Reading through the lines but it's not exactly clear what it is. X Lines etc are on borrowed time to be replaced by Super Route Red (Every 5 Mins), Super Route Green (Every 10 Mins), Interurban Express (Every 15 Mins), Connect (Every 30 Mins) and Rural (Less Frequent) with DRT thrown in aswell.
The X30/X31/X70/X71/X72 (GNE) X14/X15/X18 (Arriva) are all to be Interurban Express though.
The 1/2/57/57A/New 30 Min Cramington -> Morpeth (Arriva) are all to be Connect services. (Page 101)
(24 Nov 2021, 12:05 am)Storx Reading through the lines but it's not exactly clear what it is. X Lines etc are on borrowed time to be replaced by Super Route Red (Every 5 Mins), Super Route Green (Every 10 Mins), Interurban Express (Every 15 Mins), Connect (Every 30 Mins) and Rural (Less Frequent) with DRT thrown in aswell.
The X30/X31/X70/X71/X72 (GNE) X14/X15/X18 (Arriva) are all to be Interurban Express though.
The 1/2/57/57A/New 30 Min Cramington -> Morpeth (Arriva) are all to be Connect services. (Page 101)
I'd be interested to see where the data comes from.
I doubt that many people outside of current passengers/those with an interest engaged with Big Bus or Transport Focus. Some odditities that jumped out are journey times. Hebburn to Newcastle Central Station is listed as 51 minutes and the Metro as 22 mins whereas Hebburn to Central is 15 minutes (and should speed up slightly with MetroFlow)
I don't think the whole thing addresses the number one issue with Buses (outside of cost and convenience)....it's the beloved passenger
Other questions I have:
Realistically in a time of cuts and pulling back the covid deficit- who is funding all of the free kids travel?
How many DRT schemes do we need to run as a country before we realise they don't actually work?
They can go on with all these pipe dreams and super routes or they could just introduce capped regionwide ticketing to support the Customers they currently have.
There are shades of Project Orpheus here
(24 Nov 2021, 11:53 am)Adrian I suppose it all comes down to what the reference of "the creation of a unified brand; having a consistent approach to customer service at every point in the journey;" means, which is listed as the opportunity around branding within the BSIP document.
On one hand you could say it equates to the understanding in a Franchising model, e.g. TfL all red buses with the buses roundall, or Manchester moving towards a TfGM consistent branding with the Tram, but in a partnership, it could be like the West Yorkshire Metro example, with the logo being present at bus stations, train stations and on buses, but buses and trains still running under their own corporate branding. Either way, I hope it means a lot more than just a lucrative contract for a certain designer.
On the Xlines example though, I'd say that's something that could be expanded on and rolled out to similar services by other operators in terms of consistency.
(24 Nov 2021, 11:53 am)Adrian I suppose it all comes down to what the reference of "the creation of a unified brand; having a consistent approach to customer service at every point in the journey;" means, which is listed as the opportunity around branding within the BSIP document.
On one hand you could say it equates to the understanding in a Franchising model, e.g. TfL all red buses with the buses roundall, or Manchester moving towards a TfGM consistent branding with the Tram, but in a partnership, it could be like the West Yorkshire Metro example, with the logo being present at bus stations, train stations and on buses, but buses and trains still running under their own corporate branding. Either way, I hope it means a lot more than just a lucrative contract for a certain designer.
On the Xlines example though, I'd say that's something that could be expanded on and rolled out to similar services by other operators in terms of consistency.
(24 Nov 2021, 11:53 am)Adrian I suppose it all comes down to what the reference of "the creation of a unified brand; having a consistent approach to customer service at every point in the journey;" means, which is listed as the opportunity around branding within the BSIP document.
On one hand you could say it equates to the understanding in a Franchising model, e.g. TfL all red buses with the buses roundall, or Manchester moving towards a TfGM consistent branding with the Tram, but in a partnership, it could be like the West Yorkshire Metro example, with the logo being present at bus stations, train stations and on buses, but buses and trains still running under their own corporate branding. Either way, I hope it means a lot more than just a lucrative contract for a certain designer.
On the Xlines example though, I'd say that's something that could be expanded on and rolled out to similar services by other operators in terms of consistency.
(24 Nov 2021, 11:53 am)Adrian I suppose it all comes down to what the reference of "the creation of a unified brand; having a consistent approach to customer service at every point in the journey;" means, which is listed as the opportunity around branding within the BSIP document.
On one hand you could say it equates to the understanding in a Franchising model, e.g. TfL all red buses with the buses roundall, or Manchester moving towards a TfGM consistent branding with the Tram, but in a partnership, it could be like the West Yorkshire Metro example, with the logo being present at bus stations, train stations and on buses, but buses and trains still running under their own corporate branding. Either way, I hope it means a lot more than just a lucrative contract for a certain designer.
On the Xlines example though, I'd say that's something that could be expanded on and rolled out to similar services by other operators in terms of consistency.
Just been trying to decipher the Green and Red Routes but seems to be the following for North Tyneside / Gateshead / Newcastle:
Red Routes:
62/63 | Four Lane Ends to West Denton
306/308/309/310/311 | Haymarket to Battle Hill?
39/40
??? | Gateshead to Team Valley
??? | Newcastle to Wrekenton, assume 56 is part of it.
30/31 | Benwell to Newcastle
43/44/45/46/Q3 | Newcastle to Brunton
X77/X78/X79/X87/X88 | Newcastle to Blakelaw
Green Routes:
1/306 | North Shields to Whitley Bay
308/309 | Rake Lane to Blyth
22 | Wallsend to Throckley
1 (SNE) | Coach Lane to Slatyford
10 | Newcastle to Crawcrook
X45/X46/47 - Newcastle to Rowlands Gill
X10/X11
X21/X22
12 (SNE)
51/52
58
27
X1
21
10/11 (SNE) | Partially
Quite a few frequency increases planned there if so especially in Gateshead.
