North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses
North East BSIP: £804 Million Pound Plan For North East Buses
(04 Apr 2022, 5:51 pm)Rob44 From bbc
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60987796
(04 Apr 2022, 5:51 pm)Rob44 From bbc
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60987796
(04 Apr 2022, 3:57 pm)Adrian "Tobyn Hughes, Managing Director, Transport North East, said: “This announcement is great news for the region. The government has clearly recognised how important bus and Metro services are to the North East."
Really?We've been given around 20% of what we stated is required, yet Tobyn is still celebrating it as some great recognition of the North East. It's no wonder we politically struggle to get transport investment in the region, when we're always asking for a golden ticket, but happy to take a kick up the backside instead.
"This has been recognised by a funding award of £163.5 million over three years. This breaks down as £73,758,353 capital to prioritise buses on busy routes, and £89,762,819 revenue to support improved fares and services for local people – one of the highest allocations in the country."
The original split in the plan was -
£495.6 million of this funding is capital, to fund new bus priority infrastructure, waiting facilities, new buses, and new ITS equipment. (61.6%)
£123.6 million of this funding is revenue support, to subsidise the continuation of existing services in light of Covid-related financial shortfalls. (15.4%)
£184.7 million of this funding is revenue support to support the introduction of lower and expanded route networks (23.0%)
With the split Transport North East are confirming today, that's around 45% on infrastructure (such as bus priority) and 55% on subsidising bus services, with the aim of improving the networks and delivering lower fares. Given that is over three years, I'm not convinced the money will go very far at all...
(04 Apr 2022, 3:57 pm)Adrian "Tobyn Hughes, Managing Director, Transport North East, said: “This announcement is great news for the region. The government has clearly recognised how important bus and Metro services are to the North East."
Really?
"This has been recognised by a funding award of £163.5 million over three years. This breaks down as £73,758,353 capital to prioritise buses on busy routes, and £89,762,819 revenue to support improved fares and services for local people – one of the highest allocations in the country."
The original split in the plan was -
£495.6 million of this funding is capital, to fund new bus priority infrastructure, waiting facilities, new buses, and new ITS equipment. (61.6%)
£123.6 million of this funding is revenue support, to subsidise the continuation of existing services in light of Covid-related financial shortfalls. (15.4%)
£184.7 million of this funding is revenue support to support the introduction of lower and expanded route networks (23.0%)
With the split Transport North East are confirming today, that's around 45% on infrastructure (such as bus priority) and 55% on subsidising bus services, with the aim of improving the networks and delivering lower fares. Given that is over three years, I'm not convinced the money will go very far at all...
(04 Apr 2022, 8:00 pm)busmanT We should be rejoicing at the amount the North East has been given!
(bearing in mind that there is also £600m waiting for the North East in the City Region Sustainable Travel Settlement, once the region gets its act together on an elected mayor).
Although it's not the full amount asked for (local authorities always overbid of course) £89.7m (almost £30m per year) will go a long way towards improving services and reducing fares. It would, for example, fund an extra 150 all day buses (7 days per week) without any offsetting revenue!
And almost £74m on bus priority measures will see some significant improvement in journey times for bus passengers - provided that local councillors don't object to individual schemes.
I wonder what the "new and consistent brand for The Partnership that will be applied across the network, so that it becomes a recognisable symbol of public transport for the North East" will be?
It does, of course, need the operators to play their part through the Enhanced Partnership.
https://www.transportnortheast.gov.uk/wp..._FINAL.pdf
https://www.transportnortheast.gov.uk/en...rtnership/
(04 Apr 2022, 8:00 pm)busmanT We should be rejoicing at the amount the North East has been given!
(bearing in mind that there is also £600m waiting for the North East in the City Region Sustainable Travel Settlement, once the region gets its act together on an elected mayor).
Although it's not the full amount asked for (local authorities always overbid of course) £89.7m (almost £30m per year) will go a long way towards improving services and reducing fares. It would, for example, fund an extra 150 all day buses (7 days per week) without any offsetting revenue!
And almost £74m on bus priority measures will see some significant improvement in journey times for bus passengers - provided that local councillors don't object to individual schemes.
I wonder what the "new and consistent brand for The Partnership that will be applied across the network, so that it becomes a recognisable symbol of public transport for the North East" will be?
It does, of course, need the operators to play their part through the Enhanced Partnership.
https://www.transportnortheast.gov.uk/wp..._FINAL.pdf
https://www.transportnortheast.gov.uk/en...rtnership/
Mixed feelings….it’s a positive step but it’s handing to money to Gannon and Hughes. The Gateshead Central Taxis equivalent of leadership.
Until our regionally xenophobic leaders get over themselves and accept a North East Mayor as opposed to Sunderland and Gateshead having panic attacks about their minuscule importance becoming even more minuscule and Newcastle stealing their lunch money the sooner we can move on and actually grow. It’s going to be a labour mayor regardless (low turnout will guarantee it) so they may as well crack on with it.
And more funding of Metro which is increasingly looking like a 21st century nice to have white elephant.
(04 Apr 2022, 8:54 pm)Adrian It's probably unhelpful to look at the proposed CRSTS as making up the BSIP shortfall here, given that the two schemes funding are completely separate - as are the objectives of each. In my opinion, it's only been put together in the DfT's press release to cloud over that the Bus Back Better funding was slashed from £3bn to just over £1bn.This is the bit I am struggling to get my head around. It's quite a significant amount of money to allocate and I genuinely think it could be better spent on something else.
If we ever get our hands on the CRSTS money, there'll only be a fraction of it spent on buses, the sheer scope of what that money has to cover, including funding to councils to maintain and repair the existing state of their roads. Tees Valley are allocating around £40m of their £310m to buses.
We also know that Transport North East's major objective is the reopening of the Leamside and extension of Metro services, which will presumably have to come out of this money.
The almost £74m on bus priority is of course a good thing, but there's now a big decision to choose which of the schemes listed in the BSIP gets funding. Two of the most expensive schemes, West Newcastle and the Coast Road, are likely to be the most deserving, but I'd expect other councillors to argue support for schemes within their authority area.
I'm not convinced the near £89m over 3 years will go very, nor will it be sustainable, unless there's rapid growth like we've never seen before. The example of 150 extra buses running all day, 7 days a week, sounds great, but it doesn't take into account the ambition around fare reduction and capping. I don't think its unfair to assume that operators won't be taking a financial hit out of the good of their heart, and a proportion of the money is going to have to subsidise these cheaper fares and price caps.
£163m is clearly better than nothing at all, but rejoicing in acceptance of 20% funding doesn't exactly match the ambition of the BSIP!
Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
(04 Apr 2022, 8:54 pm)Adrian It's probably unhelpful to look at the proposed CRSTS as making up the BSIP shortfall here, given that the two schemes funding are completely separate - as are the objectives of each. In my opinion, it's only been put together in the DfT's press release to cloud over that the Bus Back Better funding was slashed from £3bn to just over £1bn.This is the bit I am struggling to get my head around. It's quite a significant amount of money to allocate and I genuinely think it could be better spent on something else.
If we ever get our hands on the CRSTS money, there'll only be a fraction of it spent on buses, the sheer scope of what that money has to cover, including funding to councils to maintain and repair the existing state of their roads. Tees Valley are allocating around £40m of their £310m to buses.
We also know that Transport North East's major objective is the reopening of the Leamside and extension of Metro services, which will presumably have to come out of this money.
The almost £74m on bus priority is of course a good thing, but there's now a big decision to choose which of the schemes listed in the BSIP gets funding. Two of the most expensive schemes, West Newcastle and the Coast Road, are likely to be the most deserving, but I'd expect other councillors to argue support for schemes within their authority area.
I'm not convinced the near £89m over 3 years will go very, nor will it be sustainable, unless there's rapid growth like we've never seen before. The example of 150 extra buses running all day, 7 days a week, sounds great, but it doesn't take into account the ambition around fare reduction and capping. I don't think its unfair to assume that operators won't be taking a financial hit out of the good of their heart, and a proportion of the money is going to have to subsidise these cheaper fares and price caps.
£163m is clearly better than nothing at all, but rejoicing in acceptance of 20% funding doesn't exactly match the ambition of the BSIP!
Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
https://www.facebook.com/100064365174416...sn=scwspmo
Didn't listen to it through, but some interesting comments and perceptions exist across the country. Mentions of the NE in there too.
(05 Apr 2022, 6:34 pm)Unber43 Are companies allowed to buy new buses, as Martjin Said they aren't allowed to upgrade/improving current services and are only for new initiativesLooking at the information that's been shared in documents and press releases - it's an awful lot of money for investment and improvement to services, if there isn't an allocation or option to purchase new vehicles.
(05 Apr 2022, 6:34 pm)Unber43 Are companies allowed to buy new buses, as Martjin Said they aren't allowed to upgrade/improving current services and are only for new initiativesLooking at the information that's been shared in documents and press releases - it's an awful lot of money for investment and improvement to services, if there isn't an allocation or option to purchase new vehicles.
(07 Apr 2022, 3:55 pm)Andreos1 Looking at the information that's been shared in documents and press releases - it's an awful lot of money for investment and improvement to services, if there isn't an allocation or option to purchase new vehicles.
(07 Apr 2022, 3:55 pm)Andreos1 Looking at the information that's been shared in documents and press releases - it's an awful lot of money for investment and improvement to services, if there isn't an allocation or option to purchase new vehicles.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-62...ebook_page&at_custom1=link&at_campaign=64&at_custom4=710B604C-1C94-11ED-A9ED-5FEE2052A482&at_custom3=LR+BBC+Radio+Newcastle&at_medium=custom7
Mayor's come together and ask for more money to prop up/save routes.
Just nationalise the lot now and save all the hassle.
(15 Aug 2022, 12:46 pm)Andreos1 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-62...ebook_page&at_custom1=link&at_campaign=64&at_custom4=710B604C-1C94-11ED-A9ED-5FEE2052A482&at_custom3=LR+BBC+Radio+Newcastle&at_medium=custom7
Mayor's come together and ask for more money to prop up/save routes.
Just nationalise the lot now and save all the hassle.
(15 Aug 2022, 12:46 pm)Andreos1 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-62...ebook_page&at_custom1=link&at_campaign=64&at_custom4=710B604C-1C94-11ED-A9ED-5FEE2052A482&at_custom3=LR+BBC+Radio+Newcastle&at_medium=custom7
Mayor's come together and ask for more money to prop up/save routes.
Just nationalise the lot now and save all the hassle.
(16 Aug 2022, 3:15 pm)Ambassador I don't think there's the political will or the public appetite for nationalisation. People like the idea of it but the reality isn't all its cracked up to be. The buses in manchester will forever end up being a stick to beat Burnham with.
It doesn't help that the vast majority of passengers will be of the lower demo and less likely to vote versus a private car user eiither.
(16 Aug 2022, 3:15 pm)Ambassador I don't think there's the political will or the public appetite for nationalisation. People like the idea of it but the reality isn't all its cracked up to be. The buses in manchester will forever end up being a stick to beat Burnham with.
It doesn't help that the vast majority of passengers will be of the lower demo and less likely to vote versus a private car user eiither.
(16 Aug 2022, 3:15 pm)Ambassador I don't think there's the political will or the public appetite for nationalisation. People like the idea of it but the reality isn't all its cracked up to be. The buses in manchester will forever end up being a stick to beat Burnham with.
It doesn't help that the vast majority of passengers will be of the lower demo and less likely to vote versus a private car user eiither.
(16 Aug 2022, 7:57 pm)Andreos1 Not sure about that.
It's not as if the taxpayer isn't contributing millions in handouts to these PLCs since Covid came along.
Obviously they were already getting hundreds of thousands prior.
Might as well cut out the middle man and send it from one Government department to another, rather than continue sending it from a Government department to a clueless commercial team - so they can 'spaff it up a wall'
(16 Aug 2022, 3:15 pm)Ambassador I don't think there's the political will or the public appetite for nationalisation. People like the idea of it but the reality isn't all its cracked up to be. The buses in manchester will forever end up being a stick to beat Burnham with.
It doesn't help that the vast majority of passengers will be of the lower demo and less likely to vote versus a private car user eiither.
(16 Aug 2022, 7:57 pm)Andreos1 Not sure about that.
It's not as if the taxpayer isn't contributing millions in handouts to these PLCs since Covid came along.
Obviously they were already getting hundreds of thousands prior.
Might as well cut out the middle man and send it from one Government department to another, rather than continue sending it from a Government department to a clueless commercial team - so they can 'spaff it up a wall'
(16 Aug 2022, 8:07 pm)Adrian I think the appetite is there and is greater than it ever has been, now that we're seeing the private sector all but collapse in trying to deliver vital public services. And more so losing interest, now that their oil well has dried up.
I think 5-10 years ago, regulation of buses in Greater Manchester (or anywhere else, for that matter), would have been used as a stick to beat whichever political leader up with. The difference now is that the buses right across England are either at or beyond breaking point. Project deregulation has completely failed, and I'd bet even most of the industry, outside of the 10% club, are now accepting this as fact.
Regulation isn't without it's own challenges though, and one will be ongoing funding. We only have to look at TFL, the NHS or Councils up and down England, to see how politically motivated funding models have become. It needs a Government willing to view public transport in the same light as any other national infrastructure, and that needs to be more than a glossy strategy document.
Regulation and centralisation would be a disaster. In my opinion it'll only work with a proper devolution model and regional control of transport networks.
(16 Aug 2022, 8:07 pm)Adrian I think the appetite is there and is greater than it ever has been, now that we're seeing the private sector all but collapse in trying to deliver vital public services. And more so losing interest, now that their oil well has dried up.
I think 5-10 years ago, regulation of buses in Greater Manchester (or anywhere else, for that matter), would have been used as a stick to beat whichever political leader up with. The difference now is that the buses right across England are either at or beyond breaking point. Project deregulation has completely failed, and I'd bet even most of the industry, outside of the 10% club, are now accepting this as fact.
Regulation isn't without it's own challenges though, and one will be ongoing funding. We only have to look at TFL, the NHS or Councils up and down England, to see how politically motivated funding models have become. It needs a Government willing to view public transport in the same light as any other national infrastructure, and that needs to be more than a glossy strategy document.
Regulation and centralisation would be a disaster. In my opinion it'll only work with a proper devolution model and regional control of transport networks.
(17 Aug 2022, 10:22 am)Andreos1 Any worse than what we see now? It's going from bad to worse and whilst a devolution deal may be better long term, in the short term, someone needs to get hold of the whole thing and give it urgent life support.
Local/regional control can still happen under a centralised funding model - even before devolution (if it ever happens).
(17 Aug 2022, 10:22 am)Andreos1 Any worse than what we see now? It's going from bad to worse and whilst a devolution deal may be better long term, in the short term, someone needs to get hold of the whole thing and give it urgent life support.
Local/regional control can still happen under a centralised funding model - even before devolution (if it ever happens).
I just thought I would put it in here
Government bus service funding to continue beyond October
Up to £130 million of government funding announced to support vital bus services across England until March 2023. Measure to protect bus routes which people rely on at a time of rising costs
[/url]
[url=https://twitter.com/CBWtweets/status/1560618532739592192/photo/1]
(19 Aug 2022, 6:17 pm)Unber43 I just thought I would put it in hereI admire the governments latest funding but if the driver shortage does not improve and there is not the drivers to operate services without cancellations more service cuts will happen
Government bus service funding to continue beyond October
Up to £130 million of government funding announced to support vital bus services across England until March 2023. Measure to protect bus routes which people rely on at a time of rising costs
[/url]
[url=https://twitter.com/CBWtweets/status/1560618532739592192/photo/1]
(19 Aug 2022, 6:17 pm)Unber43 I just thought I would put it in hereI admire the governments latest funding but if the driver shortage does not improve and there is not the drivers to operate services without cancellations more service cuts will happen
Government bus service funding to continue beyond October
Up to £130 million of government funding announced to support vital bus services across England until March 2023. Measure to protect bus routes which people rely on at a time of rising costs
[/url]
[url=https://twitter.com/CBWtweets/status/1560618532739592192/photo/1]
(19 Aug 2022, 7:35 pm)N1cholas I admire the governments latest funding but if the driver shortage does not improve and there is not the drivers to operate services without cancellations more service cuts will happen
(19 Aug 2022, 7:35 pm)N1cholas I admire the governments latest funding but if the driver shortage does not improve and there is not the drivers to operate services without cancellations more service cuts will happen
(19 Aug 2022, 6:17 pm)Unber43 I just thought I would put it in here
Government bus service funding to continue beyond October
Up to £130 million of government funding announced to support vital bus services across England until March 2023. Measure to protect bus routes which people rely on at a time of rising costs
[/url]
[url=https://twitter.com/CBWtweets/status/1560618532739592192/photo/1]
(19 Aug 2022, 6:17 pm)Unber43 I just thought I would put it in here
Government bus service funding to continue beyond October
Up to £130 million of government funding announced to support vital bus services across England until March 2023. Measure to protect bus routes which people rely on at a time of rising costs
[/url]
[url=https://twitter.com/CBWtweets/status/1560618532739592192/photo/1]
(20 Aug 2022, 12:34 am)stagecoachbusdepot Bit of a shame GNE have already cut services multiple times in anticipation of the funding coming to an end.
(20 Aug 2022, 12:34 am)stagecoachbusdepot Bit of a shame GNE have already cut services multiple times in anticipation of the funding coming to an end.
