Night Buses
Night Buses
(29 Jun 2022, 7:07 pm)Andreos1 Where would the demand for those routes come from? Apart from the nighttime economy in Newcastle, they wouldn't pass by any major employers who have a 24hr operation - like Nissan or Amazon.Honestly I think you have 3 amazing ideas here.
It's telling that those sites are all near main roads (to aid distribution of goods) and it's also telling that public transport operators don't use the same road networks to help aid the workforce.
If there's a nighttime network that's going to work, operators need to think outside the box and maybe even offer something which is different to the daytime network.
Whilst a Seaham - Sunderland via Ryhope Road works during the day - a variation of that route in peaks or on a night would offer so much more.
60X: A morning and evening peak version of the 60 via the A19 and Doxford International in to Sunderland.
60N: Night time version via Nissan and Follingsby to Newcastle would offer so much more than what we see now and would could play a part in making a 24hr network successful.
Couple that with say a 27X and 27N between Shields and Newcastle via Monkton Business Park and/or Boldon Business Park, Nissan and/or Amazon and you've instantly opened up a network that has the potential to work during the day, peaks and night.
(29 Jun 2022, 7:07 pm)Andreos1 Where would the demand for those routes come from? Apart from the nighttime economy in Newcastle, they wouldn't pass by any major employers who have a 24hr operation - like Nissan or Amazon.Honestly I think you have 3 amazing ideas here.
It's telling that those sites are all near main roads (to aid distribution of goods) and it's also telling that public transport operators don't use the same road networks to help aid the workforce.
If there's a nighttime network that's going to work, operators need to think outside the box and maybe even offer something which is different to the daytime network.
Whilst a Seaham - Sunderland via Ryhope Road works during the day - a variation of that route in peaks or on a night would offer so much more.
60X: A morning and evening peak version of the 60 via the A19 and Doxford International in to Sunderland.
60N: Night time version via Nissan and Follingsby to Newcastle would offer so much more than what we see now and would could play a part in making a 24hr network successful.
Couple that with say a 27X and 27N between Shields and Newcastle via Monkton Business Park and/or Boldon Business Park, Nissan and/or Amazon and you've instantly opened up a network that has the potential to work during the day, peaks and night.
(29 Jun 2022, 7:07 pm)Andreos1 Where would the demand for those routes come from? Apart from the nighttime economy in Newcastle, they wouldn't pass by any major employers who have a 24hr operation - like Nissan or Amazon.
It's telling that those sites are all near main roads (to aid distribution of goods) and it's also telling that public transport operators don't use the same road networks to help aid the workforce.
If there's a nighttime network that's going to work, operators need to think outside the box and maybe even offer something which is different to the daytime network.
Whilst a Seaham - Sunderland via Ryhope Road works during the day - a variation of that route in peaks or on a night would offer so much more.
60X: A morning and evening peak version of the 60 via the A19 and Doxford International in to Sunderland.
60N: Night time version via Nissan and Follingsby to Newcastle would offer so much more than what we see now and would could play a part in making a 24hr network successful.
Couple that with say a 27X and 27N between Shields and Newcastle via Monkton Business Park and/or Boldon Business Park, Nissan and/or Amazon and you've instantly opened up a network that has the potential to work during the day, peaks and night.
(29 Jun 2022, 7:07 pm)Andreos1 Where would the demand for those routes come from? Apart from the nighttime economy in Newcastle, they wouldn't pass by any major employers who have a 24hr operation - like Nissan or Amazon.
It's telling that those sites are all near main roads (to aid distribution of goods) and it's also telling that public transport operators don't use the same road networks to help aid the workforce.
If there's a nighttime network that's going to work, operators need to think outside the box and maybe even offer something which is different to the daytime network.
Whilst a Seaham - Sunderland via Ryhope Road works during the day - a variation of that route in peaks or on a night would offer so much more.
60X: A morning and evening peak version of the 60 via the A19 and Doxford International in to Sunderland.
60N: Night time version via Nissan and Follingsby to Newcastle would offer so much more than what we see now and would could play a part in making a 24hr network successful.
Couple that with say a 27X and 27N between Shields and Newcastle via Monkton Business Park and/or Boldon Business Park, Nissan and/or Amazon and you've instantly opened up a network that has the potential to work during the day, peaks and night.
Don’t forget GNE and other bus companies are a business, and all businesses are there to make profit, only way night services will run is when the local authorities pay for those services, GNE took on those night services hoping to attract the right passengers, but only a handful of passengers are not going to pay for use and maintenance of the bus being used, plus drivers wages.
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Its worth pointing out that Stagecoach couldn't even make night buses pay on a Friday and Saturday to the most popular parts of Newcastle that they serve. They certainly couldn't be accused of not offering a comprehensive daytime network in the city either to get people in to town.
(29 Jun 2022, 8:58 pm)cbma06 Don’t forget GNE and other bus companies are a business, and all businesses are there to make profit, only way night services will run is when the local authorities pay for those services, GNE took on those night services hoping to attract the right passengers, but only a handful of passengers are not going to pay for use and maintenance of the bus being used, plus drivers wages.
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(29 Jun 2022, 8:58 pm)cbma06 Don’t forget GNE and other bus companies are a business, and all businesses are there to make profit, only way night services will run is when the local authorities pay for those services, GNE took on those night services hoping to attract the right passengers, but only a handful of passengers are not going to pay for use and maintenance of the bus being used, plus drivers wages.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
(29 Jun 2022, 9:55 pm)Drifter60 Yes of course it’s got to make business sense - no one’s expecting a load of night buses going here, there and everywhere by next Tuesday. But perhaps looking at things a bit more realistically about who the target customers are and where they’re coming and going from. We’re told the 60 running to/from Parkside to Sunderland didn’t make enough money. Kudos to GNE for trying it, of course. But perhaps, as others have said, it wasn’t really an overly attractive proposition. There’s not that much in the way of employment sites, business parks or even nighttime leisure venues on the 60 route so I can certainly see why it hasn’t worked as well. Whereas the N21 serves Durham and Newcastle city centres bringing people to/from both locations, crucially at both end of the route so less scope for empty return trips. The same with 56 between Sunderland and Newcastle and also a main employment site with Nissan and on some trips connections at Concord to Follingsby Amazon iirc. So it’s easy to see where the 60 fell down. Having said that, I am surprised somewhat that some of the Saturday/Sunday early morning trips on the 60 haven’t managed to make some money - bringing people home after a night out in Sunderland.
(29 Jun 2022, 9:55 pm)Drifter60 Yes of course it’s got to make business sense - no one’s expecting a load of night buses going here, there and everywhere by next Tuesday. But perhaps looking at things a bit more realistically about who the target customers are and where they’re coming and going from. We’re told the 60 running to/from Parkside to Sunderland didn’t make enough money. Kudos to GNE for trying it, of course. But perhaps, as others have said, it wasn’t really an overly attractive proposition. There’s not that much in the way of employment sites, business parks or even nighttime leisure venues on the 60 route so I can certainly see why it hasn’t worked as well. Whereas the N21 serves Durham and Newcastle city centres bringing people to/from both locations, crucially at both end of the route so less scope for empty return trips. The same with 56 between Sunderland and Newcastle and also a main employment site with Nissan and on some trips connections at Concord to Follingsby Amazon iirc. So it’s easy to see where the 60 fell down. Having said that, I am surprised somewhat that some of the Saturday/Sunday early morning trips on the 60 haven’t managed to make some money - bringing people home after a night out in Sunderland.
(30 Jun 2022, 6:13 am)deanmachine I am surprised that they haven't kept the Friday and Saturday 60s. Unless it's a quiet night in Sunderland they do take quite a lot of people in my experience.Many of the routes being cancelled are actually quite busy at times - the 28 at Beamish opening and closing times being one - but clearly don’t make enough money for GNE’s shareholders.
(30 Jun 2022, 6:13 am)deanmachine I am surprised that they haven't kept the Friday and Saturday 60s. Unless it's a quiet night in Sunderland they do take quite a lot of people in my experience.Many of the routes being cancelled are actually quite busy at times - the 28 at Beamish opening and closing times being one - but clearly don’t make enough money for GNE’s shareholders.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The reason the night 'network' failed is because there just weren't enough services, it's alright if happen to live and work/play on one of the select routes, but if you don't, then its pointless.
They need to have at least one night service to each major town, even if it's a 2-3 hourly service
(29 Jun 2022, 9:55 pm)Drifter60 Yes of course it’s got to make business sense - no one’s expecting a load of night buses going here, there and everywhere by next Tuesday. But perhaps looking at things a bit more realistically about who the target customers are and where they’re coming and going from. We’re told the 60 running to/from Parkside to Sunderland didn’t make enough money. Kudos to GNE for trying it, of course. But perhaps, as others have said, it wasn’t really an overly attractive proposition. There’s not that much in the way of employment sites, business parks or even nighttime leisure venues on the 60 route so I can certainly see why it hasn’t worked as well. Whereas the N21 serves Durham and Newcastle city centres bringing people to/from both locations, crucially at both end of the route so less scope for empty return trips. The same with 56 between Sunderland and Newcastle and also a main employment site with Nissan and on some trips connections at Concord to Follingsby Amazon iirc. So it’s easy to see where the 60 fell down. Having said that, I am surprised somewhat that some of the Saturday/Sunday early morning trips on the 60 haven’t managed to make some money - bringing people home after a night out in Sunderland.It's like fitting a square peg in a round hole and they act all surprised when it doesn't fit and they give up trying.
(29 Jun 2022, 9:55 pm)Drifter60 Yes of course it’s got to make business sense - no one’s expecting a load of night buses going here, there and everywhere by next Tuesday. But perhaps looking at things a bit more realistically about who the target customers are and where they’re coming and going from. We’re told the 60 running to/from Parkside to Sunderland didn’t make enough money. Kudos to GNE for trying it, of course. But perhaps, as others have said, it wasn’t really an overly attractive proposition. There’s not that much in the way of employment sites, business parks or even nighttime leisure venues on the 60 route so I can certainly see why it hasn’t worked as well. Whereas the N21 serves Durham and Newcastle city centres bringing people to/from both locations, crucially at both end of the route so less scope for empty return trips. The same with 56 between Sunderland and Newcastle and also a main employment site with Nissan and on some trips connections at Concord to Follingsby Amazon iirc. So it’s easy to see where the 60 fell down. Having said that, I am surprised somewhat that some of the Saturday/Sunday early morning trips on the 60 haven’t managed to make some money - bringing people home after a night out in Sunderland.It's like fitting a square peg in a round hole and they act all surprised when it doesn't fit and they give up trying.
I like the idea of night buses (and any public transport for that matter - a private car and a taxi is available 24/7 so why shouldn't public transport?) however I feel you would need a more substantial network than now to make it more user friendly.
On a side note, would a 24 hour metro service work/be more successful than a handful of buses?
(30 Jun 2022, 9:17 am)morritt89 I like the idea of night buses (and any public transport for that matter - a private car and a taxi is available 24/7 so why shouldn't public transport?) however I feel you would need a more substantial network than now to make it more user friendly.
On a side note, would a 24 hour metro service work/be more successful than a handful of buses?
(30 Jun 2022, 9:17 am)morritt89 I like the idea of night buses (and any public transport for that matter - a private car and a taxi is available 24/7 so why shouldn't public transport?) however I feel you would need a more substantial network than now to make it more user friendly.
On a side note, would a 24 hour metro service work/be more successful than a handful of buses?
(30 Jun 2022, 9:17 am)morritt89 I like the idea of night buses (and any public transport for that matter - a private car and a taxi is available 24/7 so why shouldn't public transport?) however I feel you would need a more substantial network than now to make it more user friendly.I'd love it to happen. But for the reasons mentioned above and the lack of buses that will take people those last few miles, I can't see it happening.
On a side note, would a 24 hour metro service work/be more successful than a handful of buses?
(30 Jun 2022, 9:17 am)morritt89 I like the idea of night buses (and any public transport for that matter - a private car and a taxi is available 24/7 so why shouldn't public transport?) however I feel you would need a more substantial network than now to make it more user friendly.I'd love it to happen. But for the reasons mentioned above and the lack of buses that will take people those last few miles, I can't see it happening.
On a side note, would a 24 hour metro service work/be more successful than a handful of buses?
(30 Jun 2022, 9:26 am)Storx The problem with a 24 hour Metro is there's maintenance which happens overnight which would suddenly become very difficult such as leaf clearing in the winter or doing rail grinding etc. There's quite a bit which is done. It's why there's very limited rail anywhere overnight and most tracks have blockades for times, some which involve the wires being turned off.Nexus could, of course, secure Metro replacement bus services to provide a night service over the Metro routes if they thought they would attract passengers.
(30 Jun 2022, 9:26 am)Storx The problem with a 24 hour Metro is there's maintenance which happens overnight which would suddenly become very difficult such as leaf clearing in the winter or doing rail grinding etc. There's quite a bit which is done. It's why there's very limited rail anywhere overnight and most tracks have blockades for times, some which involve the wires being turned off.Nexus could, of course, secure Metro replacement bus services to provide a night service over the Metro routes if they thought they would attract passengers.
(30 Jun 2022, 10:43 am)busmanT Nexus could, of course, secure Metro replacement bus services to provide a night service over the Metro routes if they thought they would attract passengers.
(30 Jun 2022, 10:43 am)busmanT Nexus could, of course, secure Metro replacement bus services to provide a night service over the Metro routes if they thought they would attract passengers.
(30 Jun 2022, 10:43 am)busmanT Nexus could, of course, secure Metro replacement bus services to provide a night service over the Metro routes if they thought they would attract passengers.Exactly this. If there was enough demand or "social need" then NEXUS would cover the Metro routes using "N" buses, like London with night buses shadowing tube lines. That was, until the late 2000s the extent of night buses in London anyway!
(30 Jun 2022, 10:43 am)busmanT Nexus could, of course, secure Metro replacement bus services to provide a night service over the Metro routes if they thought they would attract passengers.Exactly this. If there was enough demand or "social need" then NEXUS would cover the Metro routes using "N" buses, like London with night buses shadowing tube lines. That was, until the late 2000s the extent of night buses in London anyway!
(30 Jun 2022, 10:43 am)busmanT Nexus could, of course, secure Metro replacement bus services to provide a night service over the Metro routes if they thought they would attract passengers.
(30 Jun 2022, 10:43 am)busmanT Nexus could, of course, secure Metro replacement bus services to provide a night service over the Metro routes if they thought they would attract passengers.
(30 Jun 2022, 3:37 pm)deanmachine The only problem is the cost of funding the service using the existing ticketing, there's no way Nexus could afford it. I think it would work great however, have a bus run the North Tyneside loop, with an N27 complementing the existing 56 (no need to run a service on the Sunderland line, just allow metro tickets to be used on the existing 56). That could be a basis for an extended night bus network if it was successful.The 1 would be a good one since it does cover Monument to Whitley Bay but after that gne don't cover any of the stations (bar the 19 to Northumberland Park)
(30 Jun 2022, 3:37 pm)deanmachine The only problem is the cost of funding the service using the existing ticketing, there's no way Nexus could afford it. I think it would work great however, have a bus run the North Tyneside loop, with an N27 complementing the existing 56 (no need to run a service on the Sunderland line, just allow metro tickets to be used on the existing 56). That could be a basis for an extended night bus network if it was successful.The 1 would be a good one since it does cover Monument to Whitley Bay but after that gne don't cover any of the stations (bar the 19 to Northumberland Park)
(30 Jun 2022, 3:40 pm)Aaron21 The 1 would be a good one since it does cover Monument to Whitley Bay but after that gne don't cover any of the stations (bar the 19 to Northumberland Park)
(30 Jun 2022, 3:40 pm)Aaron21 The 1 would be a good one since it does cover Monument to Whitley Bay but after that gne don't cover any of the stations (bar the 19 to Northumberland Park)
I presume places i.e. Team Valley, Scotswood Road, Norham Road, etc... wouldnt justify a night service even though theres factories.
