X21 B5 reliability
X21 B5 reliability
(01 May 2022, 10:19 am)GNE6312 New cascade for the X21Doesn't need all that! If Consett's rotas were changed as well as the X30/X31 & X70/X71/X72 interworking patterns with the X30/X31 standalone, it would just be a case of swapping 9x E400MMC and 9x B5TL. StreetDecks would be backup at CLS for the E400MMCs and 6334/35 would take a spare role at Consett. Obviously another low height spare would be needed at Consett for the X30/X31.
6308-14 back to Riverside and repainted for the East Gateshead loop to be allocated to the 93/94
6335/34 to wherever needs them as spares repainted to 2019 livery or back to EYMS
6155-61 to CLS, refurbished with headrests and the red moquette to be added with extra padding (to make the seats like the EYMS coasters and X93 B9s) tables & USB chargers added, repainted to X-lines blue for the X21
6001/49 to have tables added and repainted to X-lines blue for the X21
Prehaps for spares give those Ex Scotland B9s a euro 6 conversion and refurbish one or two of them to X-lines spec for spares
(01 May 2022, 10:19 am)GNE6312 New cascade for the X21Doesn't need all that! If Consett's rotas were changed as well as the X30/X31 & X70/X71/X72 interworking patterns with the X30/X31 standalone, it would just be a case of swapping 9x E400MMC and 9x B5TL. StreetDecks would be backup at CLS for the E400MMCs and 6334/35 would take a spare role at Consett. Obviously another low height spare would be needed at Consett for the X30/X31.
6308-14 back to Riverside and repainted for the East Gateshead loop to be allocated to the 93/94
6335/34 to wherever needs them as spares repainted to 2019 livery or back to EYMS
6155-61 to CLS, refurbished with headrests and the red moquette to be added with extra padding (to make the seats like the EYMS coasters and X93 B9s) tables & USB chargers added, repainted to X-lines blue for the X21
6001/49 to have tables added and repainted to X-lines blue for the X21
Prehaps for spares give those Ex Scotland B9s a euro 6 conversion and refurbish one or two of them to X-lines spec for spares
(01 May 2022, 3:01 pm)L469 YVK Doesn't need all that! If Consett's rotas were changed as well as the X30/X31 & X70/X71/X72 interworking patterns with the X30/X31 standalone, it would just be a case of swapping 9x E400MMC and 9x B5TL. StreetDecks would be backup at CLS for the E400MMCs and 6334/35 would take a spare role at Consett. Obviously another low height spare would be needed at Consett for the X30/X31.
(01 May 2022, 3:01 pm)L469 YVK Doesn't need all that! If Consett's rotas were changed as well as the X30/X31 & X70/X71/X72 interworking patterns with the X30/X31 standalone, it would just be a case of swapping 9x E400MMC and 9x B5TL. StreetDecks would be backup at CLS for the E400MMCs and 6334/35 would take a spare role at Consett. Obviously another low height spare would be needed at Consett for the X30/X31.
(01 May 2022, 10:19 am)GNE6312 New cascade for the X21
6308-14 back to Riverside and repainted for the East Gateshead loop to be allocated to the 93/94
6335/34 to wherever needs them as spares repainted to 2019 livery or back to EYMS
6155-61 to CLS, refurbished with headrests and the red moquette to be added with extra padding (to make the seats like the EYMS coasters and X93 B9s) tables & USB chargers added, repainted to X-lines blue for the X21
6001/49 to have tables added and repainted to X-lines blue for the X21
Prehaps for spares give those Ex Scotland B9s a euro 6 conversion and refurbish one or two of them to X-lines spec for spares
(01 May 2022, 10:19 am)GNE6312 New cascade for the X21
6308-14 back to Riverside and repainted for the East Gateshead loop to be allocated to the 93/94
6335/34 to wherever needs them as spares repainted to 2019 livery or back to EYMS
6155-61 to CLS, refurbished with headrests and the red moquette to be added with extra padding (to make the seats like the EYMS coasters and X93 B9s) tables & USB chargers added, repainted to X-lines blue for the X21
6001/49 to have tables added and repainted to X-lines blue for the X21
Prehaps for spares give those Ex Scotland B9s a euro 6 conversion and refurbish one or two of them to X-lines spec for spares
(01 May 2022, 10:19 am)GNE6312 New cascade for the X21Would 6155-61 be able to do the X21,because I think not.
6308-14 back to Riverside and repainted for the East Gateshead loop to be allocated to the 93/94
6335/34 to wherever needs them as spares repainted to 2019 livery or back to EYMS
6155-61 to CLS, refurbished with headrests and the red moquette to be added with extra padding (to make the seats like the EYMS coasters and X93 B9s) tables & USB chargers added, repainted to X-lines blue for the X21
6001/49 to have tables added and repainted to X-lines blue for the X21
Prehaps for spares give those Ex Scotland B9s a euro 6 conversion and refurbish one or two of them to X-lines spec for spares
(01 May 2022, 10:19 am)GNE6312 New cascade for the X21Would 6155-61 be able to do the X21,because I think not.
6308-14 back to Riverside and repainted for the East Gateshead loop to be allocated to the 93/94
6335/34 to wherever needs them as spares repainted to 2019 livery or back to EYMS
6155-61 to CLS, refurbished with headrests and the red moquette to be added with extra padding (to make the seats like the EYMS coasters and X93 B9s) tables & USB chargers added, repainted to X-lines blue for the X21
6001/49 to have tables added and repainted to X-lines blue for the X21
Prehaps for spares give those Ex Scotland B9s a euro 6 conversion and refurbish one or two of them to X-lines spec for spares
(01 May 2022, 3:04 pm)Dan It also doesn’t need all that.
I saw no post on this forum the other day when 8/9 Volvo B5s were on the X21, the only one absent being 6308.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
(01 May 2022, 3:04 pm)Dan It also doesn’t need all that.
I saw no post on this forum the other day when 8/9 Volvo B5s were on the X21, the only one absent being 6308.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
(01 May 2022, 3:53 pm)streetdeckfan I don't know what the sudden obsession with swapping vehicles on the X21. I'm not the biggest B5 fan, but as a regular of the route I'm perfectly content with them for now.
Plus, as my crude reliability table the other day showed, they're not even that unreliable!
I know you probably can't say, but was I anywhere near close with the figures?
(01 May 2022, 3:53 pm)streetdeckfan I don't know what the sudden obsession with swapping vehicles on the X21. I'm not the biggest B5 fan, but as a regular of the route I'm perfectly content with them for now.
Plus, as my crude reliability table the other day showed, they're not even that unreliable!
I know you probably can't say, but was I anywhere near close with the figures?
(01 May 2022, 7:40 pm)Jimmi "Sudden obsession?!"
Stand-ins of a different type are inevitable on the X21 considering all of the B5TLs form part of the allocation so only takes one to be missing, looks worse with all the 16 plates of similar spec now being sent to Washington depot which only really leaves the ex Lothian B9s and OmniDekka's left to allocate, 6331 is another (maybe 6332/3 if they return to CLS in future?).
Much the same story with the also apparent unreliable Xlines X20 Citaros, looking on bustimes.org, only 5330 was missing from service yesterday (which hasn't been out since March 23rd).
(01 May 2022, 7:40 pm)Jimmi "Sudden obsession?!"
Stand-ins of a different type are inevitable on the X21 considering all of the B5TLs form part of the allocation so only takes one to be missing, looks worse with all the 16 plates of similar spec now being sent to Washington depot which only really leaves the ex Lothian B9s and OmniDekka's left to allocate, 6331 is another (maybe 6332/3 if they return to CLS in future?).
Much the same story with the also apparent unreliable Xlines X20 Citaros, looking on bustimes.org, only 5330 was missing from service yesterday (which hasn't been out since March 23rd).
(01 May 2022, 7:51 pm)MurdnunoC I think the sudden obsession stems from some posters on this forum spending far too much time monitoring BusTimes for any anomalies in services, then posting as fact as if they've witnessed it with their own eyes.By montering bus times do you mean a 20 second check, while I am seeing where the X21 is that I am getting.
(01 May 2022, 7:51 pm)MurdnunoC I think the sudden obsession stems from some posters on this forum spending far too much time monitoring BusTimes for any anomalies in services, then posting as fact as if they've witnessed it with their own eyes.By montering bus times do you mean a 20 second check, while I am seeing where the X21 is that I am getting.
(01 May 2022, 7:51 pm)MurdnunoC I think the sudden obsession stems from some posters on this forum spending far too much time monitoring BusTimes for any anomalies in services, then posting as fact as if they've witnessed it with their own eyes.
(01 May 2022, 7:51 pm)MurdnunoC I think the sudden obsession stems from some posters on this forum spending far too much time monitoring BusTimes for any anomalies in services, then posting as fact as if they've witnessed it with their own eyes.
(01 May 2022, 3:04 pm)Dan It also doesn’t need all that.But why have Arriva used them as their choice of vehicle on the Ashington & Alnwick 'X' routes? The E400 classics allocated to the X15/X18 have done well although well overdue for replacement now given the nature of their work, and they're about to receive 19x E400MMC.
I saw no post on this forum the other day when 8/9 Volvo B5s were on the X21, the only one absent being 6308.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
(01 May 2022, 3:04 pm)Dan It also doesn’t need all that.But why have Arriva used them as their choice of vehicle on the Ashington & Alnwick 'X' routes? The E400 classics allocated to the X15/X18 have done well although well overdue for replacement now given the nature of their work, and they're about to receive 19x E400MMC.
I saw no post on this forum the other day when 8/9 Volvo B5s were on the X21, the only one absent being 6308.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
(02 May 2022, 9:32 am)L469 YVK But why have Arriva used them as their choice of vehicle on the Ashington & Alnwick 'X' routes? The E400 classics allocated to the X15/X18 have done well although well overdue for replacement now given the nature of their work, and they're about to receive 19x E400MMC.
(02 May 2022, 9:32 am)L469 YVK But why have Arriva used them as their choice of vehicle on the Ashington & Alnwick 'X' routes? The E400 classics allocated to the X15/X18 have done well although well overdue for replacement now given the nature of their work, and they're about to receive 19x E400MMC.
(02 May 2022, 10:11 am)mb134 The Ashington express routes (bar the X21/22) are arguably much more demanding than the GNE X21 - the X14 up at Thropton is very hilly, the X15 is constant foot down on the A1, the X18 is rural NSL roads virtually the entire way combined with A1 flogging north of Belford, and the X20 is a combination of the X15 and X18 in that it's constant foot down for the southern section and NSL country roads north of Ashington.But that shows how good they are. Okay they're not perfect but they do the job very well within reasonable limits.
Aside from this being more demanding than the GNE X21, there was no B5TL available when they first started gaining E400s and at this point fleet standardisation is probably reasonably important.
(02 May 2022, 10:11 am)mb134 The Ashington express routes (bar the X21/22) are arguably much more demanding than the GNE X21 - the X14 up at Thropton is very hilly, the X15 is constant foot down on the A1, the X18 is rural NSL roads virtually the entire way combined with A1 flogging north of Belford, and the X20 is a combination of the X15 and X18 in that it's constant foot down for the southern section and NSL country roads north of Ashington.But that shows how good they are. Okay they're not perfect but they do the job very well within reasonable limits.
Aside from this being more demanding than the GNE X21, there was no B5TL available when they first started gaining E400s and at this point fleet standardisation is probably reasonably important.
Other than the short stretch on the A1, and the northbound A167 section after the Honest Lawyer, I don't think the X21 is that demanding of a route. I think there are 2 proper hills on the route (Croxdale and Coundon), the rest of it is just relatively flat 50/60mph roads. Which, is no problem at all for a B5 since long higher speed stretches are where smaller displacement engines are suited. You only really need the 'power' of a larger engine if the route has a lot of hills, as it can generate the torque needed to push the vehicle up without putting as much stress on the engine, whereas a smaller engine would rely on the turbo more to generate that torque.
E400s would be nothing short of overkill for the route, and no doubt use more fuel. From about 2 seconds of googling, the E400s get around 6mpg, the B5s 8mpg, and the StreetDecks 9mpg, obviously this depends on the route, but I'd imagine the fact the B5s have a gearbox that is suited to driving faster than 30mph, unlike the StreetDecks, the B5s probably end up around the same if not a bit better fuel wise than the StreetDecks on the X21.
I Appreciate the downstairs space that the B5s offer. I will go upstairs if I have plenty of time to get down and have very little to carry but prefer not to and sometimes just plain can't.
(02 May 2022, 11:01 am)L469 YVK But that shows how good they are. Okay they're not perfect but they do the job very well within reasonable limits.
(02 May 2022, 11:01 am)L469 YVK But that shows how good they are. Okay they're not perfect but they do the job very well within reasonable limits.
(02 May 2022, 11:31 am)streetdeckfan E400s would be nothing short of overkill for the route, and no doubt use more fuel. From about 2 seconds of googling, the E400s get around 6mpg, the B5s 8mpg, and the StreetDecks 9mpg, obviously this depends on the route, but I'd imagine the fact the B5s have a gearbox that is suited to driving faster than 30mph, unlike the StreetDecks, the B5s probably end up around the same if not a bit better fuel wise than the StreetDecks on the X21.Well if that's the case, why didn't GNE & EY follow Lothian and order the B5TL chassis with the ADL E400MMC bodywork rather than ordering the integral Dennis Trident 2 / Cummins chassis especially given the MCV B5TLs that EY already have?
(02 May 2022, 8:09 pm)mb134 Yes they are good, but for routes like GNEs X21 they're arguably overkill. Even for the ANE X21/22 they're arguably overkill, though the extra power does probably come in handy with the extremely tight evening/Sunday/BH timetables - and they aid with fleet flexibility (especially with the ongoing debranding).I'd say the E400 / E400MMC is the right vehicle for the X21/X22. However, that's not to say something like a StreetDeck couldn't handle the routes as GNE are using them fine on the X1 now given the extensions to Dalton Park and Peterlee.
Given GNE don't seem to be quite as big on fleet standardisation, and don't have any other routes out of CLS that are too demanding, the B5TL is arguably the perfect vehicle for their X21.
(02 May 2022, 11:31 am)streetdeckfan E400s would be nothing short of overkill for the route, and no doubt use more fuel. From about 2 seconds of googling, the E400s get around 6mpg, the B5s 8mpg, and the StreetDecks 9mpg, obviously this depends on the route, but I'd imagine the fact the B5s have a gearbox that is suited to driving faster than 30mph, unlike the StreetDecks, the B5s probably end up around the same if not a bit better fuel wise than the StreetDecks on the X21.Well if that's the case, why didn't GNE & EY follow Lothian and order the B5TL chassis with the ADL E400MMC bodywork rather than ordering the integral Dennis Trident 2 / Cummins chassis especially given the MCV B5TLs that EY already have?
(02 May 2022, 8:09 pm)mb134 Yes they are good, but for routes like GNEs X21 they're arguably overkill. Even for the ANE X21/22 they're arguably overkill, though the extra power does probably come in handy with the extremely tight evening/Sunday/BH timetables - and they aid with fleet flexibility (especially with the ongoing debranding).I'd say the E400 / E400MMC is the right vehicle for the X21/X22. However, that's not to say something like a StreetDeck couldn't handle the routes as GNE are using them fine on the X1 now given the extensions to Dalton Park and Peterlee.
Given GNE don't seem to be quite as big on fleet standardisation, and don't have any other routes out of CLS that are too demanding, the B5TL is arguably the perfect vehicle for their X21.
(03 May 2022, 8:40 pm)L469 YVK Well if that's the case, why didn't GNE & EY follow Lothian and order the B5TL chassis with the ADL E400MMC bodywork rather than ordering the integral Dennis Trident 2 / Cummins chassis especially given the MCV B5TLs that EY already have?
Are they the figures quoted and obtained from actual operators or book figures by manufacturers? You also have to remember that the ADL/Cummins option on the Enviro 400 now comes with Stop/Start too. You have to also remember that the quoted figures don't take into account specific conditions too and some vehicles might actually end up being more efficient than others depending on the route. It wasn't that too long ago that the E400 was considered the "lightweight" option over the likes of the B9TL etc.
But if you look at the current situation regardless of the vehicle types allocated, re-allocating to match the exact PVRs (and not using spare ex dealer stock vehicles to form the PVR) would make more sense
(03 May 2022, 8:40 pm)L469 YVK Well if that's the case, why didn't GNE & EY follow Lothian and order the B5TL chassis with the ADL E400MMC bodywork rather than ordering the integral Dennis Trident 2 / Cummins chassis especially given the MCV B5TLs that EY already have?
Are they the figures quoted and obtained from actual operators or book figures by manufacturers? You also have to remember that the ADL/Cummins option on the Enviro 400 now comes with Stop/Start too. You have to also remember that the quoted figures don't take into account specific conditions too and some vehicles might actually end up being more efficient than others depending on the route. It wasn't that too long ago that the E400 was considered the "lightweight" option over the likes of the B9TL etc.
But if you look at the current situation regardless of the vehicle types allocated, re-allocating to match the exact PVRs (and not using spare ex dealer stock vehicles to form the PVR) would make more sense
(03 May 2022, 9:08 pm)Storx I know Lothian got them after but as far as I'm aware the B5TL isn't for sale anymore. It's been removed from the Volvo site for awhile now. No doubt down to cost though and they're not exactly any better than the alternatives unlike the B7/B9 which are much better than what was around at the time. Tridents for example, horrid things.
(03 May 2022, 9:08 pm)Storx I know Lothian got them after but as far as I'm aware the B5TL isn't for sale anymore. It's been removed from the Volvo site for awhile now. No doubt down to cost though and they're not exactly any better than the alternatives unlike the B7/B9 which are much better than what was around at the time. Tridents for example, horrid things.
