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Enviro 400MMC's for the X10

Enviro 400MMC's for the X10

 
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20 Dec 2021, 1:50 am #41
(20 Dec 2021, 1:43 am)Keeiajs If they were to order new buses, I would stick E200's on them, high spec. You would have the route extended to the Metro to add 20 mins, give 20 mins laypver at hexham and newcastle and sorted every 60 mins.

I think Eldon Square had a massive effect, I think it has with the 56 aswell,
When did the 56 serve Eldon Square?

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streetdeckfan
20 Dec 2021, 1:50 am #41

(20 Dec 2021, 1:43 am)Keeiajs If they were to order new buses, I would stick E200's on them, high spec. You would have the route extended to the Metro to add 20 mins, give 20 mins laypver at hexham and newcastle and sorted every 60 mins.

I think Eldon Square had a massive effect, I think it has with the 56 aswell,
When did the 56 serve Eldon Square?

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk

Keeiajs

563891

1,026
20 Dec 2021, 1:52 am #42
(20 Dec 2021, 1:50 am)streetdeckfan When did the 56 serve Eldon Square?

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It did used back in 2012, got upgraded to double deckers and the passenger numbers have dwindled since really, from Sunderland it used to be really busy, now your lucky in 6 people are waiting, went fron every 10 to every 15
Keeiajs
20 Dec 2021, 1:52 am #42

(20 Dec 2021, 1:50 am)streetdeckfan When did the 56 serve Eldon Square?

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk
It did used back in 2012, got upgraded to double deckers and the passenger numbers have dwindled since really, from Sunderland it used to be really busy, now your lucky in 6 people are waiting, went fron every 10 to every 15

20 Dec 2021, 1:59 am #43
(20 Dec 2021, 1:52 am)Keeiajs It did used back in 2012, got upgraded to double deckers and the passenger numbers have dwindled since really, from Sunderland it used to be really busy, now your lucky in 6 people are waiting, went fron every 10 to every 15

It's always left from on-street stops - https://northeastbuses.co.uk/bygone/asse...ly2006.pdf
omnicity4659
20 Dec 2021, 1:59 am #43

(20 Dec 2021, 1:52 am)Keeiajs It did used back in 2012, got upgraded to double deckers and the passenger numbers have dwindled since really, from Sunderland it used to be really busy, now your lucky in 6 people are waiting, went fron every 10 to every 15

It's always left from on-street stops - https://northeastbuses.co.uk/bygone/asse...ly2006.pdf

20 Dec 2021, 8:00 am #44
56 or the 187/8 never even served Eldon Square at all. 56/56A always went from Pilgrim Street / Market Street area of Newcastle whilst the 187/8 only ran to Gateshead.

Please feel free to visit my Flickr page - https://www.flickr.com/photos/gjm-photogenic/
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Rapidsnap
20 Dec 2021, 8:00 am #44

56 or the 187/8 never even served Eldon Square at all. 56/56A always went from Pilgrim Street / Market Street area of Newcastle whilst the 187/8 only ran to Gateshead.


Please feel free to visit my Flickr page - https://www.flickr.com/photos/gjm-photogenic/
Who needs heroes anyway? Villians have more fun.

20 Dec 2021, 8:36 am #45
Update on this
The X85 and X9 will be withdrawn, the X10/10E will become a PVR requirement of 4 which this will see the ‘Knackered’ Coaches withdrawn and replaced with the X-Lines Orange 400MMC. we should see a new X-Lines for the X84
KingSlayerRBLX
20 Dec 2021, 8:36 am #45

Update on this
The X85 and X9 will be withdrawn, the X10/10E will become a PVR requirement of 4 which this will see the ‘Knackered’ Coaches withdrawn and replaced with the X-Lines Orange 400MMC. we should see a new X-Lines for the X84

Adrian



9,566
20 Dec 2021, 8:49 am #46
Interesting move, if that is the case. Not only do Hexham lose their "major upgrade with £1million investment from Go North East", but arguably you're downgrading the X9/X10 in the process.

It's worth referring back to the press release back in February and reading the statements made at the time.
  • "From today, Go North East has introduced luxury coaches on its premium X10 express route that runs between Middlesbrough and Newcastle via the A19, serving Stockton, Norton, Billingham, Peterlee, Dalton Park, Heworth and Gateshead."
  • These coaches provide extra comfort and a first-class travel experience, running fast and direct along the A19."
  • and that "The route is cheaper and more luxurious than the train, with a return ticket costing just £8 between Middlesbrough and Newcastle, and unlimited travel available for £8.50 a day or £35 a week."

The quote from the company representative was that:
“We’re delighted to be upgrading our X10 service into our X-lines regional bus network with the introduction of these luxury coaches on our Middlesbrough to Newcastle express route.
These coaches provide extra comfort and a first-class travel experience, running fast and direct along the A19.
“They will also play an important part in delivering congestion-busting low-carbon travel to help support the economic recovery of the region.”


There's a lot of emphasis there on luxury coaches and a first-class travel experience, even making the statement that it is more luxurious than the train. Are we now reverting back to a 'second-class' travel experience?

I think the upgrade of the X9/X10 to coaches was an excellent move and one likely to attract commuters away from the train. There's an automatic perception amongst the general public that coach travel is a step up from service bus travel, and in my opinion it needs something innovative like this to attract people away from the train.

What hasn't been on the operator's side is the pandemic, and perhaps if the route out of it panned out as expected in early 2021 we'd have seen a different response. Instead though, these have lasted a mere 10 months. We're not even on the road out of a pandemic yet, so not only is this barely even short-termism, it's almost a defeatist attitude that passenger numbers are never going to return. What happened to all the growth ambitions and targets (based on pre-pandemic numbers) being shouted about in the Bus Service Improvement Plan? That appears to have lasted all of five minutes.

There's also the question of reliability, and if the normal commuter loads had returned early 2021, they'd have been in the same reliability league as before the B9TLs were withdrawn. Pissed off commuters and hardly an advert for the service.

I've personally no issues with the Enviro 400MMCs, and whilst I think their introduction was a real boost for the X84/X85, they're a downgrade from the 'luxury coaches providing a first-class travel experience' on the X9/X10. A case of your words coming back to bite you?

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Adrian
20 Dec 2021, 8:49 am #46

Interesting move, if that is the case. Not only do Hexham lose their "major upgrade with £1million investment from Go North East", but arguably you're downgrading the X9/X10 in the process.

It's worth referring back to the press release back in February and reading the statements made at the time.

  • "From today, Go North East has introduced luxury coaches on its premium X10 express route that runs between Middlesbrough and Newcastle via the A19, serving Stockton, Norton, Billingham, Peterlee, Dalton Park, Heworth and Gateshead."
  • These coaches provide extra comfort and a first-class travel experience, running fast and direct along the A19."
  • and that "The route is cheaper and more luxurious than the train, with a return ticket costing just £8 between Middlesbrough and Newcastle, and unlimited travel available for £8.50 a day or £35 a week."

The quote from the company representative was that:
“We’re delighted to be upgrading our X10 service into our X-lines regional bus network with the introduction of these luxury coaches on our Middlesbrough to Newcastle express route.
These coaches provide extra comfort and a first-class travel experience, running fast and direct along the A19.
“They will also play an important part in delivering congestion-busting low-carbon travel to help support the economic recovery of the region.”


There's a lot of emphasis there on luxury coaches and a first-class travel experience, even making the statement that it is more luxurious than the train. Are we now reverting back to a 'second-class' travel experience?

I think the upgrade of the X9/X10 to coaches was an excellent move and one likely to attract commuters away from the train. There's an automatic perception amongst the general public that coach travel is a step up from service bus travel, and in my opinion it needs something innovative like this to attract people away from the train.

What hasn't been on the operator's side is the pandemic, and perhaps if the route out of it panned out as expected in early 2021 we'd have seen a different response. Instead though, these have lasted a mere 10 months. We're not even on the road out of a pandemic yet, so not only is this barely even short-termism, it's almost a defeatist attitude that passenger numbers are never going to return. What happened to all the growth ambitions and targets (based on pre-pandemic numbers) being shouted about in the Bus Service Improvement Plan? That appears to have lasted all of five minutes.

There's also the question of reliability, and if the normal commuter loads had returned early 2021, they'd have been in the same reliability league as before the B9TLs were withdrawn. Pissed off commuters and hardly an advert for the service.

I've personally no issues with the Enviro 400MMCs, and whilst I think their introduction was a real boost for the X84/X85, they're a downgrade from the 'luxury coaches providing a first-class travel experience' on the X9/X10. A case of your words coming back to bite you?


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Storx



4,482
20 Dec 2021, 9:04 am #47
Just shows what people think of buses in comparison to trains even known people defend them to death on here.

Both the routes between Hexham and Newcastle and Middlesbrough and Newcastle are absolutely rammed lately with people complaining they can't get on with some kid who fainted because of how bad it was last week.

Not surprised at Hexham there's way too many options with trains 3x an hour (best option), x84, x85 and 685 but dropping to a Versa is a serious downgrade. I wouldn't want to spend more than 20 minutes on them nevermind an hour. Horrid rattley things suited for city work.
Storx
20 Dec 2021, 9:04 am #47

Just shows what people think of buses in comparison to trains even known people defend them to death on here.

Both the routes between Hexham and Newcastle and Middlesbrough and Newcastle are absolutely rammed lately with people complaining they can't get on with some kid who fainted because of how bad it was last week.

Not surprised at Hexham there's way too many options with trains 3x an hour (best option), x84, x85 and 685 but dropping to a Versa is a serious downgrade. I wouldn't want to spend more than 20 minutes on them nevermind an hour. Horrid rattley things suited for city work.

Andreos1



14,155
20 Dec 2021, 9:17 am #48
(20 Dec 2021, 8:49 am)Adrian Interesting move, if that is the case. Not only do Hexham lose their "major upgrade with £1million investment from Go North East", but arguably you're downgrading the X9/X10 in the process.

It's worth referring back to the press release back in February and reading the statements made at the time.
  • "From today, Go North East has introduced luxury coaches on its premium X10 express route that runs between Middlesbrough and Newcastle via the A19, serving Stockton, Norton, Billingham, Peterlee, Dalton Park, Heworth and Gateshead."
  • These coaches provide extra comfort and a first-class travel experience, running fast and direct along the A19."
  • and that "The route is cheaper and more luxurious than the train, with a return ticket costing just £8 between Middlesbrough and Newcastle, and unlimited travel available for £8.50 a day or £35 a week."

The quote from the company representative was that:
“We’re delighted to be upgrading our X10 service into our X-lines regional bus network with the introduction of these luxury coaches on our Middlesbrough to Newcastle express route.
These coaches provide extra comfort and a first-class travel experience, running fast and direct along the A19.
“They will also play an important part in delivering congestion-busting low-carbon travel to help support the economic recovery of the region.”


There's a lot of emphasis there on luxury coaches and a first-class travel experience, even making the statement that it is more luxurious than the train. Are we now reverting back to a 'second-class' travel experience?

I think the upgrade of the X9/X10 to coaches was an excellent move and one likely to attract commuters away from the train. There's an automatic perception amongst the general public that coach travel is a step up from service bus travel, and in my opinion it needs something innovative like this to attract people away from the train.

What hasn't been on the operator's side is the pandemic, and perhaps if the route out of it panned out as expected in early 2021 we'd have seen a different response. Instead though, these have lasted a mere 10 months. We're not even on the road out of a pandemic yet, so not only is this barely even short-termism, it's almost a defeatist attitude that passenger numbers are never going to return. What happened to all the growth ambitions and targets (based on pre-pandemic numbers) being shouted about in the Bus Service Improvement Plan? That appears to have lasted all of five minutes.

There's also the question of reliability, and if the normal commuter loads had returned early 2021, they'd have been in the same reliability league as before the B9TLs were withdrawn. Pissed off commuters and hardly an advert for the service.

I've personally no issues with the Enviro 400MMCs, and whilst I think their introduction was a real boost for the X84/X85, they're a downgrade from the 'luxury coaches providing a first-class travel experience' on the X9/X10. A case of your words coming back to bite you?

You've done what I was going to do when I got a spare 10mins!

There's something not quite right about all of this based on the snippet of info from Dan and all of the information/blurb and marketing issued at the beginning of the year.

Reliability may be a factor, but it definitely smacks of short-termism and does nothing to entice those passengers (commuting or otherwise) out of their cars or off the train.
As someone whizzing (I use the term loosely) up and down the A19 several times a week, public transport would be an option - if there was something to connect to and got me to the end point quickly at either end (say Heworth or a point between there & Dalton Park and Middlesbrough). There isn't, so unless I have all the time in the world, I don't use it. 
Ditto the train at Durham, Newcastle, Heworth, Sunderland or Seaham.
I imagine most people are in a similar position, in that they too don't study/work/live in the town/city centres served by the X9/10 and that has to be a factor in this apparent drop in popularity. 

There's been times when I've seen cars waiting at Norton, dropping and collecting people for the X10. Maybe people have found an alternative to being inconvenienced? Maybe circumstances have forced their hand?

I mentioned external factors on passenger numbers the other day in the forum. There's bound to be some internal factors relating to this X9/10 white flag.

'Illegitimis non carborundum'
Andreos1
20 Dec 2021, 9:17 am #48

(20 Dec 2021, 8:49 am)Adrian Interesting move, if that is the case. Not only do Hexham lose their "major upgrade with £1million investment from Go North East", but arguably you're downgrading the X9/X10 in the process.

It's worth referring back to the press release back in February and reading the statements made at the time.
  • "From today, Go North East has introduced luxury coaches on its premium X10 express route that runs between Middlesbrough and Newcastle via the A19, serving Stockton, Norton, Billingham, Peterlee, Dalton Park, Heworth and Gateshead."
  • These coaches provide extra comfort and a first-class travel experience, running fast and direct along the A19."
  • and that "The route is cheaper and more luxurious than the train, with a return ticket costing just £8 between Middlesbrough and Newcastle, and unlimited travel available for £8.50 a day or £35 a week."

The quote from the company representative was that:
“We’re delighted to be upgrading our X10 service into our X-lines regional bus network with the introduction of these luxury coaches on our Middlesbrough to Newcastle express route.
These coaches provide extra comfort and a first-class travel experience, running fast and direct along the A19.
“They will also play an important part in delivering congestion-busting low-carbon travel to help support the economic recovery of the region.”


There's a lot of emphasis there on luxury coaches and a first-class travel experience, even making the statement that it is more luxurious than the train. Are we now reverting back to a 'second-class' travel experience?

I think the upgrade of the X9/X10 to coaches was an excellent move and one likely to attract commuters away from the train. There's an automatic perception amongst the general public that coach travel is a step up from service bus travel, and in my opinion it needs something innovative like this to attract people away from the train.

What hasn't been on the operator's side is the pandemic, and perhaps if the route out of it panned out as expected in early 2021 we'd have seen a different response. Instead though, these have lasted a mere 10 months. We're not even on the road out of a pandemic yet, so not only is this barely even short-termism, it's almost a defeatist attitude that passenger numbers are never going to return. What happened to all the growth ambitions and targets (based on pre-pandemic numbers) being shouted about in the Bus Service Improvement Plan? That appears to have lasted all of five minutes.

There's also the question of reliability, and if the normal commuter loads had returned early 2021, they'd have been in the same reliability league as before the B9TLs were withdrawn. Pissed off commuters and hardly an advert for the service.

I've personally no issues with the Enviro 400MMCs, and whilst I think their introduction was a real boost for the X84/X85, they're a downgrade from the 'luxury coaches providing a first-class travel experience' on the X9/X10. A case of your words coming back to bite you?

You've done what I was going to do when I got a spare 10mins!

There's something not quite right about all of this based on the snippet of info from Dan and all of the information/blurb and marketing issued at the beginning of the year.

Reliability may be a factor, but it definitely smacks of short-termism and does nothing to entice those passengers (commuting or otherwise) out of their cars or off the train.
As someone whizzing (I use the term loosely) up and down the A19 several times a week, public transport would be an option - if there was something to connect to and got me to the end point quickly at either end (say Heworth or a point between there & Dalton Park and Middlesbrough). There isn't, so unless I have all the time in the world, I don't use it. 
Ditto the train at Durham, Newcastle, Heworth, Sunderland or Seaham.
I imagine most people are in a similar position, in that they too don't study/work/live in the town/city centres served by the X9/10 and that has to be a factor in this apparent drop in popularity. 

There's been times when I've seen cars waiting at Norton, dropping and collecting people for the X10. Maybe people have found an alternative to being inconvenienced? Maybe circumstances have forced their hand?

I mentioned external factors on passenger numbers the other day in the forum. There's bound to be some internal factors relating to this X9/10 white flag.


'Illegitimis non carborundum'

20 Dec 2021, 9:22 am #49
(20 Dec 2021, 8:49 am)Adrian Interesting move, if that is the case. Not only do Hexham lose their "major upgrade with £1million investment from Go North East", but arguably you're downgrading the X9/X10 in the process.

It's worth referring back to the press release back in February and reading the statements made at the time.
  • "From today, Go North East has introduced luxury coaches on its premium X10 express route that runs between Middlesbrough and Newcastle via the A19, serving Stockton, Norton, Billingham, Peterlee, Dalton Park, Heworth and Gateshead."
  • These coaches provide extra comfort and a first-class travel experience, running fast and direct along the A19."
  • and that "The route is cheaper and more luxurious than the train, with a return ticket costing just £8 between Middlesbrough and Newcastle, and unlimited travel available for £8.50 a day or £35 a week."

The quote from the company representative was that:
“We’re delighted to be upgrading our X10 service into our X-lines regional bus network with the introduction of these luxury coaches on our Middlesbrough to Newcastle express route.
These coaches provide extra comfort and a first-class travel experience, running fast and direct along the A19.
“They will also play an important part in delivering congestion-busting low-carbon travel to help support the economic recovery of the region.”


There's a lot of emphasis there on luxury coaches and a first-class travel experience, even making the statement that it is more luxurious than the train. Are we now reverting back to a 'second-class' travel experience?

I think the upgrade of the X9/X10 to coaches was an excellent move and one likely to attract commuters away from the train. There's an automatic perception amongst the general public that coach travel is a step up from service bus travel, and in my opinion it needs something innovative like this to attract people away from the train.

What hasn't been on the operator's side is the pandemic, and perhaps if the route out of it panned out as expected in early 2021 we'd have seen a different response. Instead though, these have lasted a mere 10 months. We're not even on the road out of a pandemic yet, so not only is this barely even short-termism, it's almost a defeatist attitude that passenger numbers are never going to return. What happened to all the growth ambitions and targets (based on pre-pandemic numbers) being shouted about in the Bus Service Improvement Plan? That appears to have lasted all of five minutes.

There's also the question of reliability, and if the normal commuter loads had returned early 2021, they'd have been in the same reliability league as before the B9TLs were withdrawn. Pissed off commuters and hardly an advert for the service.

I've personally no issues with the Enviro 400MMCs, and whilst I think their introduction was a real boost for the X84/X85, they're a downgrade from the 'luxury coaches providing a first-class travel experience' on the X9/X10. A case of your words coming back to bite you?
Agree entirely, the B11RT/Elite is a superb coach and it does seem those are particularly unsuited. Megabus run older B11R/Elites and they are still better than Levante, on distances that make the Oxford run and X9/10 seem like doddles. In Scotland they operate a more varied pattern and they do ok. The train service between Newcastle and Middlesbrough is abysmal, all year round, with capacity rarely matching numbers, the coach was the way to win business, bunging a bus on will have a negative effect, regardless of how high spec that bus is.
54APhotography
20 Dec 2021, 9:22 am #49

(20 Dec 2021, 8:49 am)Adrian Interesting move, if that is the case. Not only do Hexham lose their "major upgrade with £1million investment from Go North East", but arguably you're downgrading the X9/X10 in the process.

It's worth referring back to the press release back in February and reading the statements made at the time.
  • "From today, Go North East has introduced luxury coaches on its premium X10 express route that runs between Middlesbrough and Newcastle via the A19, serving Stockton, Norton, Billingham, Peterlee, Dalton Park, Heworth and Gateshead."
  • These coaches provide extra comfort and a first-class travel experience, running fast and direct along the A19."
  • and that "The route is cheaper and more luxurious than the train, with a return ticket costing just £8 between Middlesbrough and Newcastle, and unlimited travel available for £8.50 a day or £35 a week."

The quote from the company representative was that:
“We’re delighted to be upgrading our X10 service into our X-lines regional bus network with the introduction of these luxury coaches on our Middlesbrough to Newcastle express route.
These coaches provide extra comfort and a first-class travel experience, running fast and direct along the A19.
“They will also play an important part in delivering congestion-busting low-carbon travel to help support the economic recovery of the region.”


There's a lot of emphasis there on luxury coaches and a first-class travel experience, even making the statement that it is more luxurious than the train. Are we now reverting back to a 'second-class' travel experience?

I think the upgrade of the X9/X10 to coaches was an excellent move and one likely to attract commuters away from the train. There's an automatic perception amongst the general public that coach travel is a step up from service bus travel, and in my opinion it needs something innovative like this to attract people away from the train.

What hasn't been on the operator's side is the pandemic, and perhaps if the route out of it panned out as expected in early 2021 we'd have seen a different response. Instead though, these have lasted a mere 10 months. We're not even on the road out of a pandemic yet, so not only is this barely even short-termism, it's almost a defeatist attitude that passenger numbers are never going to return. What happened to all the growth ambitions and targets (based on pre-pandemic numbers) being shouted about in the Bus Service Improvement Plan? That appears to have lasted all of five minutes.

There's also the question of reliability, and if the normal commuter loads had returned early 2021, they'd have been in the same reliability league as before the B9TLs were withdrawn. Pissed off commuters and hardly an advert for the service.

I've personally no issues with the Enviro 400MMCs, and whilst I think their introduction was a real boost for the X84/X85, they're a downgrade from the 'luxury coaches providing a first-class travel experience' on the X9/X10. A case of your words coming back to bite you?
Agree entirely, the B11RT/Elite is a superb coach and it does seem those are particularly unsuited. Megabus run older B11R/Elites and they are still better than Levante, on distances that make the Oxford run and X9/10 seem like doddles. In Scotland they operate a more varied pattern and they do ok. The train service between Newcastle and Middlesbrough is abysmal, all year round, with capacity rarely matching numbers, the coach was the way to win business, bunging a bus on will have a negative effect, regardless of how high spec that bus is.

20 Dec 2021, 9:34 am #50
I get the feeling this is only just the start of the cost cutting going forwards.
deanmachine
20 Dec 2021, 9:34 am #50

I get the feeling this is only just the start of the cost cutting going forwards.

L469 YVK



3,544
20 Dec 2021, 9:46 am #51
(20 Dec 2021, 12:11 am)Keeiajs Some Questions 
- What is happening with X84/5 (fleet allocation) ?
- What will the X9/10 get allocation wise?
- What will happen to the coaches
- Is GNE getting anything from other operators.

21 is another prime example ussed to be every 15 mins to Durham, now eveery 30 mins.
- Unsure about X84/X85 allocation.
- X9 & X10 will get 6352-55 and if total PVR remains at 7x. (minus the temp full day X10E revisions), 6338-40 will likely fill the rest.
- Coaches will no doubt be returned somewhere and or sold.
- I doubt it unless older deckers for Misc work etc.

21 was initially dropped before COVID due to X21 frequency increase.

(20 Dec 2021, 1:04 am)mb134 Possibly - I know ANEs have Voith boxes, think GNE might have ZF?

From travelling on both though, acceleration seems pretty similar and ultimately it's the same power unit so you'd hope they have similar gearing.
ANE used to order ZF boxes for the Classic E400. However, ZF & Stop/Start (=BSOG requirement) was not available until 2019. Therefore 7541-52 were Voith boxes.

All of GNE/EY E400MMCs as well as Transdev's since 2019 have been ZF boxes.

(20 Dec 2021, 1:28 am)Train8261 Someone finally said it
The 311 will never be withdrawn with the 310 doing a loop around Hadrian Park instead. The 311 has it's purpose for the simple reason that the 309/310/311 can offer a higher combined frequency on a lower PVR than the 309/310 previously did alone. Not also taking into account the extra cost of running the 'oddball' 57 that no one wanted to use as it didn't serve Haymarket.
Edited 20 Dec 2021, 9:56 am by L469 YVK.
L469 YVK
20 Dec 2021, 9:46 am #51

(20 Dec 2021, 12:11 am)Keeiajs Some Questions 
- What is happening with X84/5 (fleet allocation) ?
- What will the X9/10 get allocation wise?
- What will happen to the coaches
- Is GNE getting anything from other operators.

21 is another prime example ussed to be every 15 mins to Durham, now eveery 30 mins.
- Unsure about X84/X85 allocation.
- X9 & X10 will get 6352-55 and if total PVR remains at 7x. (minus the temp full day X10E revisions), 6338-40 will likely fill the rest.
- Coaches will no doubt be returned somewhere and or sold.
- I doubt it unless older deckers for Misc work etc.

21 was initially dropped before COVID due to X21 frequency increase.

(20 Dec 2021, 1:04 am)mb134 Possibly - I know ANEs have Voith boxes, think GNE might have ZF?

From travelling on both though, acceleration seems pretty similar and ultimately it's the same power unit so you'd hope they have similar gearing.
ANE used to order ZF boxes for the Classic E400. However, ZF & Stop/Start (=BSOG requirement) was not available until 2019. Therefore 7541-52 were Voith boxes.

All of GNE/EY E400MMCs as well as Transdev's since 2019 have been ZF boxes.

(20 Dec 2021, 1:28 am)Train8261 Someone finally said it
The 311 will never be withdrawn with the 310 doing a loop around Hadrian Park instead. The 311 has it's purpose for the simple reason that the 309/310/311 can offer a higher combined frequency on a lower PVR than the 309/310 previously did alone. Not also taking into account the extra cost of running the 'oddball' 57 that no one wanted to use as it didn't serve Haymarket.

morritt89



221
20 Dec 2021, 10:02 am #52
I hate to agree but I think there will be more cuts before further expansion and development.

I wonder what will happen to the Northern Coaching coaches, will there be sold as I cannot think of any immediate long term regular use for them (or at least them all)? Maybe they could go to the training school replacing the Scania buses currently used?

Back to the coach v bus argument on the X10 there are pluses and minuses for each but surely there's nothing saying the interior of a bus can be as 'luxury' as that of a coach? Also, wheelchair loading onto a coach is very time consuming (ive done the training) so therefore a bus has this advantage as well. Overall its a downgrade especially when you think of the fanfare when the coaches were launched however in these strange times we should acknowledge that GNE are giving the service a chance (even if its not very attractive or likely to attract car users) rather than just throw the towel in altogether.
morritt89
20 Dec 2021, 10:02 am #52

I hate to agree but I think there will be more cuts before further expansion and development.

I wonder what will happen to the Northern Coaching coaches, will there be sold as I cannot think of any immediate long term regular use for them (or at least them all)? Maybe they could go to the training school replacing the Scania buses currently used?

Back to the coach v bus argument on the X10 there are pluses and minuses for each but surely there's nothing saying the interior of a bus can be as 'luxury' as that of a coach? Also, wheelchair loading onto a coach is very time consuming (ive done the training) so therefore a bus has this advantage as well. Overall its a downgrade especially when you think of the fanfare when the coaches were launched however in these strange times we should acknowledge that GNE are giving the service a chance (even if its not very attractive or likely to attract car users) rather than just throw the towel in altogether.

Keeiajs

563891

1,026
20 Dec 2021, 11:06 am #53
With there only being 4, are they keeping the X10 for the foreseeable future, as I think most buses will fill to capacity, and if social distancing returns (which Bojo is considering) it will just be a utter disaster. 

But what will be the spare's? Also get that back into Eldon Square. Are they planning a order for some Scania E400 MMC, or Six Cylinder Streetdecks.

X84 seems to be the only one reducing the frequency to every 60 mins (shame) it does deserve brand new buses like....
Keeiajs
20 Dec 2021, 11:06 am #53

With there only being 4, are they keeping the X10 for the foreseeable future, as I think most buses will fill to capacity, and if social distancing returns (which Bojo is considering) it will just be a utter disaster. 

But what will be the spare's? Also get that back into Eldon Square. Are they planning a order for some Scania E400 MMC, or Six Cylinder Streetdecks.

X84 seems to be the only one reducing the frequency to every 60 mins (shame) it does deserve brand new buses like....

Keeiajs

563891

1,026
20 Dec 2021, 11:32 am #54
(20 Dec 2021, 8:00 am)Rapidsnap 56 or the 187/8 never even served Eldon Square at all. 56/56A always went from Pilgrim Street / Market Street area of Newcastle whilst the 187/8 only ran to Gateshead.
Oh sorry, I can remember a 56 dropping me off at Eldon Square. 

Personally I believe it would help in passenger numbers, or atleast a less frequent express service as the 56 goes through every little turn.Something to compete with the X24.
Keeiajs
20 Dec 2021, 11:32 am #54

(20 Dec 2021, 8:00 am)Rapidsnap 56 or the 187/8 never even served Eldon Square at all. 56/56A always went from Pilgrim Street / Market Street area of Newcastle whilst the 187/8 only ran to Gateshead.
Oh sorry, I can remember a 56 dropping me off at Eldon Square. 

Personally I believe it would help in passenger numbers, or atleast a less frequent express service as the 56 goes through every little turn.Something to compete with the X24.

Adrian



9,566
20 Dec 2021, 11:32 am #55
(20 Dec 2021, 10:02 am)morritt89 Back to the coach v bus argument on the X10 there are pluses and minuses for each but surely there's nothing saying the interior of a bus can be as 'luxury' as that of a coach? Also, wheelchair loading onto a coach is very time consuming (ive done the training) so therefore a bus has this advantage as well. Overall its a downgrade especially when you think of the fanfare when the coaches were launched however in these strange times we should acknowledge that GNE are giving the service a chance (even if its not very attractive or likely to attract car users) rather than just throw the towel in altogether.

Perception is everything here, and there's an automatic perception amongst the general public that coach travel is a step up from service bus travel. This is really important when you're competing with the train, which is also seen as a step up from bus travel. 

Whilst I think it'll be hard to change those perceptions, for reasons I've mentioned in the past e.g. Xlines spec vs the standard 'no-frills' spec that customers will encounter more, I agree that there's nothing to say that an interior of a bus can't be as 'luxury' as a coach, but these E400MMCs aren't going to do that. I actually think that Transdev come closer to achieving this on some of their services, e.g. the City Zap between York and Leeds or the Witchway into Manchester, and the seats and layout are key to this.

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Adrian
20 Dec 2021, 11:32 am #55

(20 Dec 2021, 10:02 am)morritt89 Back to the coach v bus argument on the X10 there are pluses and minuses for each but surely there's nothing saying the interior of a bus can be as 'luxury' as that of a coach? Also, wheelchair loading onto a coach is very time consuming (ive done the training) so therefore a bus has this advantage as well. Overall its a downgrade especially when you think of the fanfare when the coaches were launched however in these strange times we should acknowledge that GNE are giving the service a chance (even if its not very attractive or likely to attract car users) rather than just throw the towel in altogether.

Perception is everything here, and there's an automatic perception amongst the general public that coach travel is a step up from service bus travel. This is really important when you're competing with the train, which is also seen as a step up from bus travel. 

Whilst I think it'll be hard to change those perceptions, for reasons I've mentioned in the past e.g. Xlines spec vs the standard 'no-frills' spec that customers will encounter more, I agree that there's nothing to say that an interior of a bus can't be as 'luxury' as a coach, but these E400MMCs aren't going to do that. I actually think that Transdev come closer to achieving this on some of their services, e.g. the City Zap between York and Leeds or the Witchway into Manchester, and the seats and layout are key to this.


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Keeiajs

563891

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20 Dec 2021, 11:37 am #56
(20 Dec 2021, 11:32 am)Adrian Perception is everything here, and there's an automatic perception amongst the general public that coach travel is a step up from service bus travel. This is really important when you're competing with the train, which is also seen as a step up from bus travel. 

Whilst I think it'll be hard to change those perceptions, for reasons I've mentioned in the past e.g. Xlines spec vs the standard 'no-frills' spec that customers will encounter more, I agree that there's nothing to say that an interior of a bus can't be as 'luxury' as a coach, but these E400MMCs aren't going to do that. I actually think that Transdev come closer to achieving this on some of their services, e.g. the City Zap between York and Leeds or the Witchway into Manchester, and the seats and layout are key to this.
In all fairness the X9/X10 were always busy when it reached eldon square. I think pulling it out of Eldon Square did absolutely no favours, I mean the X10 from Dalton Park is Quicker/same than the train and much cheaper to Newcastle, aswell as from Peterlee or Hordon Station. 
And I think it is around the same for Middesbrough and Stockton
Keeiajs
20 Dec 2021, 11:37 am #56

(20 Dec 2021, 11:32 am)Adrian Perception is everything here, and there's an automatic perception amongst the general public that coach travel is a step up from service bus travel. This is really important when you're competing with the train, which is also seen as a step up from bus travel. 

Whilst I think it'll be hard to change those perceptions, for reasons I've mentioned in the past e.g. Xlines spec vs the standard 'no-frills' spec that customers will encounter more, I agree that there's nothing to say that an interior of a bus can't be as 'luxury' as a coach, but these E400MMCs aren't going to do that. I actually think that Transdev come closer to achieving this on some of their services, e.g. the City Zap between York and Leeds or the Witchway into Manchester, and the seats and layout are key to this.
In all fairness the X9/X10 were always busy when it reached eldon square. I think pulling it out of Eldon Square did absolutely no favours, I mean the X10 from Dalton Park is Quicker/same than the train and much cheaper to Newcastle, aswell as from Peterlee or Hordon Station. 
And I think it is around the same for Middesbrough and Stockton

20 Dec 2021, 11:54 am #57
(20 Dec 2021, 11:06 am)Keeiajs With there only being 4, are they keeping the X10 for the foreseeable future, as I think most buses will fill to capacity, and if social distancing returns (which Bojo is considering) it will just be a utter disaster. 

But what will be the spare's? Also get that back into Eldon Square. Are they planning a order for some Scania E400 MMC, or Six Cylinder Streetdecks.

X84 seems to be the only one reducing the frequency to every 60 mins (shame) it does deserve brand new buses like....
X84 could end up with 6304 - 6307
ian foster
20 Dec 2021, 11:54 am #57

(20 Dec 2021, 11:06 am)Keeiajs With there only being 4, are they keeping the X10 for the foreseeable future, as I think most buses will fill to capacity, and if social distancing returns (which Bojo is considering) it will just be a utter disaster. 

But what will be the spare's? Also get that back into Eldon Square. Are they planning a order for some Scania E400 MMC, or Six Cylinder Streetdecks.

X84 seems to be the only one reducing the frequency to every 60 mins (shame) it does deserve brand new buses like....
X84 could end up with 6304 - 6307

Keeiajs

563891

1,026
20 Dec 2021, 11:56 am #58
(20 Dec 2021, 11:54 am)ian foster X84 could end up with 6304 - 6307
Well they would only need 2, so 6332-3, whcih have been freed up since X47 was removed from X-lines Brand.

I was hoping they could increase the Angel services to Durham to every 20 mins, with 1 terminating at Durham.

(20 Dec 2021, 9:17 am)Andreos1 You've done what I was going to do when I got a spare 10mins!

There's something not quite right about all of this based on the snippet of info from Dan and all of the information/blurb and marketing issued at the beginning of the year.

Reliability may be a factor, but it definitely smacks of short-termism and does nothing to entice those passengers (commuting or otherwise) out of their cars or off the train.
As someone whizzing (I use the term loosely) up and down the A19 several times a week, public transport would be an option - if there was something to connect to and got me to the end point quickly at either end (say Heworth or a point between there and Dalton Park and Middlesbrough). There isn't, so unless I have all the time in the world, I don't use it. 
Ditto the train at Durham, Newcastle, Heworth, Sunderland or Seaham.
I imagine most people are in a similar position, in that they too don't study/work/live in the town/city centres served by the X9/10 and that has to be a factor in this apparent drop in popularity. 

There's been times when I've seen cars waiting at Norton, dropping and collecting people for the X10. Maybe people have found an alternative to being inconvenienced? Maybe circumstances have forced their hand?

I mentioned external factors on passenger numbers the other day in the forum. There's bound to be some internal factors relating to this X9/10 white flag.
When you say external factors, or due to circumstances it might be the thing that the last X10 is at 20:22, which for a lot of people is too early in Newcastle especially if they work at say eldon Square, for example the last X1 to Dalton park is 17:50, and Tbh I think that is a bit early especially with all this Christmas shopping, there should be on at 19:00 and 20:00, and the X10 the last one should be 22:00 imo.
Edited 20 Dec 2021, 11:59 am by Keeiajs.
Keeiajs
20 Dec 2021, 11:56 am #58

(20 Dec 2021, 11:54 am)ian foster X84 could end up with 6304 - 6307
Well they would only need 2, so 6332-3, whcih have been freed up since X47 was removed from X-lines Brand.

I was hoping they could increase the Angel services to Durham to every 20 mins, with 1 terminating at Durham.

(20 Dec 2021, 9:17 am)Andreos1 You've done what I was going to do when I got a spare 10mins!

There's something not quite right about all of this based on the snippet of info from Dan and all of the information/blurb and marketing issued at the beginning of the year.

Reliability may be a factor, but it definitely smacks of short-termism and does nothing to entice those passengers (commuting or otherwise) out of their cars or off the train.
As someone whizzing (I use the term loosely) up and down the A19 several times a week, public transport would be an option - if there was something to connect to and got me to the end point quickly at either end (say Heworth or a point between there and Dalton Park and Middlesbrough). There isn't, so unless I have all the time in the world, I don't use it. 
Ditto the train at Durham, Newcastle, Heworth, Sunderland or Seaham.
I imagine most people are in a similar position, in that they too don't study/work/live in the town/city centres served by the X9/10 and that has to be a factor in this apparent drop in popularity. 

There's been times when I've seen cars waiting at Norton, dropping and collecting people for the X10. Maybe people have found an alternative to being inconvenienced? Maybe circumstances have forced their hand?

I mentioned external factors on passenger numbers the other day in the forum. There's bound to be some internal factors relating to this X9/10 white flag.
When you say external factors, or due to circumstances it might be the thing that the last X10 is at 20:22, which for a lot of people is too early in Newcastle especially if they work at say eldon Square, for example the last X1 to Dalton park is 17:50, and Tbh I think that is a bit early especially with all this Christmas shopping, there should be on at 19:00 and 20:00, and the X10 the last one should be 22:00 imo.

Storx



4,482
20 Dec 2021, 12:12 pm #59
(20 Dec 2021, 11:37 am)Keeiajs In all fairness the X9/X10 were always busy when it reached eldon square. I think pulling it out of Eldon Square did absolutely no favours, I mean the X10 from Dalton Park is Quicker/same than the train and much cheaper to Newcastle, aswell as from Peterlee or Hordon Station. 
And I think it is around the same for Middesbrough and Stockton

Train: 1 hour 20 mins
Bus: 1 hour 45 mins

There's quite a big difference between Middlesbrough and Newcastle and a train will very likely take 1 hour 20 mins, a bus on the otherhand is linked to other traffic so could take much much longer and on such a long route it's not rare.

Neither have connections either. There's nothing at all in Middlesbrough and there's very little North of Newcastle either. Durham / Sunderland passengers won't be travelling via the X10 and would use the X12 or train instead. Passengers in Peterlee are more likely to have Arriva day tickets aswell since they offer more services and could use the X22 especially if they live on the route, the time it takes to change will knock off the 20 minutes in time difference.

I don't care what anyone says on here the worst train (excluding buses on rails) is better than the best conventional bus. There's more space, there's toilets, there's tables, the ride is better generally, they rarely break down, there's rarely traffic issues.

I'd take a Class 156 or Class 158 anyday over any Alexander Dennis or Wright bus with as many fancy mod cons they can attempt to squeeze on even if it cost 40% more and most of the GP will agree. As soon as the Newcastle to Middlesbrough eventually go every 30 minutes, then it's incomparable.

It's not a co-incidence the two routes competing against trains are struggling.
Storx
20 Dec 2021, 12:12 pm #59

(20 Dec 2021, 11:37 am)Keeiajs In all fairness the X9/X10 were always busy when it reached eldon square. I think pulling it out of Eldon Square did absolutely no favours, I mean the X10 from Dalton Park is Quicker/same than the train and much cheaper to Newcastle, aswell as from Peterlee or Hordon Station. 
And I think it is around the same for Middesbrough and Stockton

Train: 1 hour 20 mins
Bus: 1 hour 45 mins

There's quite a big difference between Middlesbrough and Newcastle and a train will very likely take 1 hour 20 mins, a bus on the otherhand is linked to other traffic so could take much much longer and on such a long route it's not rare.

Neither have connections either. There's nothing at all in Middlesbrough and there's very little North of Newcastle either. Durham / Sunderland passengers won't be travelling via the X10 and would use the X12 or train instead. Passengers in Peterlee are more likely to have Arriva day tickets aswell since they offer more services and could use the X22 especially if they live on the route, the time it takes to change will knock off the 20 minutes in time difference.

I don't care what anyone says on here the worst train (excluding buses on rails) is better than the best conventional bus. There's more space, there's toilets, there's tables, the ride is better generally, they rarely break down, there's rarely traffic issues.

I'd take a Class 156 or Class 158 anyday over any Alexander Dennis or Wright bus with as many fancy mod cons they can attempt to squeeze on even if it cost 40% more and most of the GP will agree. As soon as the Newcastle to Middlesbrough eventually go every 30 minutes, then it's incomparable.

It's not a co-incidence the two routes competing against trains are struggling.

Keeiajs

563891

1,026
20 Dec 2021, 12:20 pm #60
(20 Dec 2021, 12:12 pm)Storx Train: 1 hour 20 mins
Bus: 1 hour 45 mins

There's quite a big difference between Middlesbrough and Newcastle and a train will very likely take 1 hour 20 mins, a bus on the otherhand is linked to other traffic so could take much much longer and on such a long route it's not rare.

Neither have connections either. There's nothing at all in Middlesbrough and there's very little North of Newcastle either. Durham / Sunderland passengers won't be travelling via the X10 and would use the X12 or train instead. Passengers in Peterlee are more likely to have Arriva day tickets aswell since they offer more services and could use the X22 especially if they live on the route, the time it takes to change will knock off the 20 minutes in time difference.

I don't care what anyone says on here the worst train (excluding buses on rails) is better than the best conventional bus. There's more space, there's toilets, there's tables, the ride is better generally, they rarely break down, there's rarely traffic issues.

I'd take a Class 156 or Class 158 anyday over any Alexander Dennis or Wright bus with as many fancy mod cons they can attempt to squeeze on even if it cost 40% more and most of the GP will agree. As soon as the Newcastle to Middlesbrough eventually go every 30 minutes, then it's incomparable.

It's not a co-incidence the two routes competing against trains are struggling.
Maybe the X9 can return, to take it Via Durham.   However Newcastle to Middlesbrough every 30 mins I doubt it will happen atleast for the next 2 years. 
I think Eldon Square the final blow tbh.
Keeiajs
20 Dec 2021, 12:20 pm #60

(20 Dec 2021, 12:12 pm)Storx Train: 1 hour 20 mins
Bus: 1 hour 45 mins

There's quite a big difference between Middlesbrough and Newcastle and a train will very likely take 1 hour 20 mins, a bus on the otherhand is linked to other traffic so could take much much longer and on such a long route it's not rare.

Neither have connections either. There's nothing at all in Middlesbrough and there's very little North of Newcastle either. Durham / Sunderland passengers won't be travelling via the X10 and would use the X12 or train instead. Passengers in Peterlee are more likely to have Arriva day tickets aswell since they offer more services and could use the X22 especially if they live on the route, the time it takes to change will knock off the 20 minutes in time difference.

I don't care what anyone says on here the worst train (excluding buses on rails) is better than the best conventional bus. There's more space, there's toilets, there's tables, the ride is better generally, they rarely break down, there's rarely traffic issues.

I'd take a Class 156 or Class 158 anyday over any Alexander Dennis or Wright bus with as many fancy mod cons they can attempt to squeeze on even if it cost 40% more and most of the GP will agree. As soon as the Newcastle to Middlesbrough eventually go every 30 minutes, then it's incomparable.

It's not a co-incidence the two routes competing against trains are struggling.
Maybe the X9 can return, to take it Via Durham.   However Newcastle to Middlesbrough every 30 mins I doubt it will happen atleast for the next 2 years. 
I think Eldon Square the final blow tbh.

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