Route Development | Network Expansion & New Services

57 Replies, 3351 Views

(14 Jan 2022, 10:51 am)Thomas12 Wrote: I'd say the 309/310/311 have decent passenger numbers on the common section of the route (i.e Battle Hill to Newcastle). After that it varies I'd say, they can be busy, but then other times dead.


I think the 1 is fine as it is. I don't see much value in coordinating it with the 22 as they take different routes for most of the way.

Curtailing it at North Shields isn't a good idea. Would leave areas without a route.
Yea that's true between North Shields and Whitley Bay. There's still a lot who use it. If this was the case. Arriva would have to re route the 306 and make it serve Whitley Bay full time
(14 Jan 2022, 12:39 am)OrangeArrow49 Wrote: Could the 1 terminate in Newcastle, and be curtailed at North Shields? Renumbered 301. Maybe it could be coordinated with the 22 between Newcastle and Wallsend?

I'm not really suggesting this but if we're ditching buses and working together around there then it should be the 1 between North Shields and Gateshead with the 22 split into a 22 and 23, with the 22 being the current route and the 23 doing North Shields to Newcastle via the route 1 but going direct to Fossway from Appleby Gardens then continuing to Throckley.

The 10 minute service to Cobalt / Silverlink is overkill and 9 buses along there doing similar calling patterns is also overkill. 6 buses an hour with 3 buses doing each of the localised areas is more than enough.

The 310 could easily be extended to do the other half of the route.
One for Andreos but I’d imagine the route planning was based on Cobalt being the UKs biggest business park…

How hybrid will impact is another matter, it obviously sees demand for a service but imagine it could be cut back. Then again it probably brings more revenue then backstreet insert north Tyneside council Estate here does
Wistfully stuck in the 90s
(13 Jan 2022, 11:29 pm)Thomas12 Wrote: Why would they extend the 1 to Blyth? The numbers on the 309 are hardly ground-breaking to start with. If anything, I would suggest reducing the frequency of the 309.
The 309/310/311 are fine as they are as are the 306/308 although I'd say pull the 306 out of Battle Hill and keep both the 306/308 on the Coast Road running a 10 min combined frequency.

But with BSIP, harmonising the times of the 308 & 309 would make sense and would give roughly on common sections of route:

- 10 minute combined frequency during the day
- 30 minute combined frequency during evenings
- 15 minute combined frequency on Sundays
(15 Jan 2022, 3:30 pm)L469 YVK Wrote: The 309/310/311 are fine as they are as are the 306/308 although I'd say pull the 306 out of Battle Hill and keep both the 306/308 on the Coast Road running a 10 min combined frequency.

But with BSIP, harmonising the times of the 308 & 309 would make sense and would give roughly on common sections of route:

- 10 minute combined frequency during the day
- 30 minute combined frequency during evenings
- 15 minute combined frequency on Sundays
Why take the 306 out of Battle Hill, surely that’s where the passengers are? When it was taken out of BH previously, they soon put it back again.
(16 Jan 2022, 11:22 am)RMF1254 Wrote: Why take the 306 out of Battle Hill, surely that’s where the passengers are? When it was taken out of BH previously, they soon put it back again.
They initially took it out as they replaced that part with the X8 & X9.

However, they were both scaled back and having an 'exact' combined 7-8 minute service on the Coast Road only was overkill. 

But a combined 10 minute service between Billy Mill and Newcastle with both services on the Coast Road via Holy Cross / St Peter's wouldn't be overkill as such.

The 306 is an oddball in Battle Hill given that GNE have 9x buses per hour to Newcastle now.
(16 Jan 2022, 11:48 am)L469 YVK Wrote: They initially took it out as they replaced that part with the X8 & X9.

However, they were both scaled back and having an 'exact' combined 7-8 minute service on the Coast Road only was overkill. 

But a combined 10 minute service between Billy Mill and Newcastle with both services on the Coast Road via Holy Cross / St Peter's wouldn't be overkill as such.

The 306 is an oddball in Battle Hill given that GNE have 9x buses per hour to Newcastle now.
Quicker route to North Shields, also direct service to Tynemouth and the seafront, not everyone goes to  Newcastle. Also 306 is quicker to Newcastle than the 310/311 as they go via High Farm. There’s always going to be a lot of buses from Battle Hill on the Coast Rd to Newcastle bearing in mind the number of places they serve at the coast, merging into basically into one route from the Jolly Bowman stop.
Tbh I'm shocked how bad Tynemouth & Cullercoats are badly connected with bus services. Tynemouth has the 306 from Newcastle and The 1 which takes quite a while to get there plus the walk from Tynemouth metro to the beach is about 10/15 minutes walk

Yea they have the metro but so what. You can't always rely on the Metro (same with the bus) but Cullercoats is a badly missing for bus service. Cullercoats during the summer is really busy and could do with a bus service down there. Yea the 1 runs near it but that's it. A route along the coast that follow the road that the seasider took would make profit
(16 Jan 2022, 1:24 pm)Train8261 Wrote: Tbh I'm shocked how bad Tynemouth & Cullercoats are badly connected with bus services. Tynemouth has the 306 from Newcastle and The 1 which takes quite a while to get there plus the walk from Tynemouth metro to the beach is about 10/15 minutes walk

Yea they have the metro but so what. You can't always rely on the Metro (same with the bus) but Cullercoats is a badly missing for bus service. Cullercoats during the summer is really busy and could do with a bus service down there. Yea the 1 runs near it but that's it. A route along the coast that follow the road that the seasider took would make profit

North Tyneside is a relatively well off area in the North East with the only real pockets of social deprivation around North Shields and Wallswnd. This makes tough bus operating territory for the rest of the area when the Metro is also there. 

Personally, I think some of the W buses and other local services could/should be scrapped/replaced with something linking the coastal communities not seeved by the 308/309 with North Tyneside Hospital, Cobalt and Silverlink
(16 Jan 2022, 3:05 pm)DeltaMan Wrote: North Tyneside is a relatively well off area in the North East with the only real pockets of social deprivation around North Shields and Wallswnd. This makes tough bus operating territory for the rest of the area when the Metro is also there. 

Not forgetting the Metro is perceived to be the 'free' option - you have to pay to get on a bus!
North Tyneside is a difficult place to serve by bus because of the Metro. The only main line bus services from the coast seems to be the Coast Rd services as they they don’t follow the route of the Metro. The Coaster used to be more more direct but since Metro it now wanders around Walkerville, Fossway, Howdon and Marden, instead of using the main roads, same with old United services from the coast which ran via Shiremoor, Forest Hall etc. The old 346/347 from Whitley Bay to Newcastle ran every 15 minutes with double deckers or big single deckers. The equivalent service 51 now runs hourly, covering a lot of the same route but using mini buses. The old Tyneside route (313) ran every 10 minutes with double deckersvirtually in a straight line from Newcastle to North Shields, this has mainly disappeared, only the 11 from Wallsend to North Shields covers some of it. It generally follows the Metro and as Dan says, some don’t think they have to pay to use it!. As for the Little Coasters, yes they are needed by some people who don’t need to go to Newcastle and at certain times of the day they carry decent loads of passengers.
Tbh the only bus on the Little Coasters network that works against the metro kinda is the 42A. If a failed train is withdrawn from service anywhere after Fawdon. The 42A is the only service that links all the rest of the stations but doesn't anymore due it being only once an hour. The 42A works more of a metrolink

Gne could work with Nexus to find out what changes could be done to bring the Little Coasters network to be a reliable service that could see passengers numbers increase. Put it out to the public. Have them decided on the 11/19/41/41A/42/42A to see what changes they would like. Passengers are the key importance or at least that's what the word at GNE is to get people back on board. But you can't really do that if your not letting the passengers decided.

I remember the 5th of September service changes. The backlash gne got was terrible cause a lot of the service changes they put up were (low passenger numbers or not enough money) I remember the 71 was gonna be withdrawn but nope it changed and still stays to this day
(16 Jan 2022, 4:47 pm)Train8261 Wrote: Tbh the only bus on the Little Coasters network that works against the metro kinda is the 42A. If a failed train is withdrawn from service anywhere after Fawdon. The 42A is the only service that links all the rest of the stations but doesn't anymore due it being only once an hour. The 42A works more of a metrolink

Gne could work with Nexus to find out what changes could be done to bring the Little Coasters network to be a reliable service that could see passengers numbers increase. Put it out to the public. Have them decided on the 11/19/41/41A/42/42A to see what changes they would like. Passengers are the key importance or at least that's what the word at GNE is to get people back on board. But you can't really do that if your not letting the passengers decided.

I remember the 5th of September service changes. The backlash gne got was terrible cause a lot of the service changes they put up were (low passenger numbers or not enough money) I remember the 71 was gonna be withdrawn but nope it changed and still stays to this day

Hopefully the Bus Service Improvement Plan/Network review will do just that! Problem with surveys and stuff is you get people suggesting all sorts of ideas who never actually use the service so then it ends up being unprofitable. 

The only reason the 71 wasn't withdrawn and stays till this day is because Durham County Council stepped in to fund it.
(16 Jan 2022, 5:11 pm)peter Wrote: Hopefully the Bus Service Improvement Plan/Network review will do just that! Problem with surveys and stuff is you get people suggesting all sorts of ideas who never actually use the service so then it ends up being unprofitable. 

The only reason the 71 wasn't withdrawn and stays till this day is because Durham County Council stepped in to fund it.
But the fact gne nexus don't do anything about the Little Coasters network really annoys me. They could do what there doing with the rest of the services. Sit down and have a chat to see what changes they can implement then let the public decide

Make changes or ideas that the public would want not just because your losing passengers
(16 Jan 2022, 5:41 pm)Train8261 Wrote: But the fact gne nexus don't do anything about the Little Coasters network really annoys me. They could do what there doing with the rest of the services. Sit down and have a chat to see what changes they can implement then let the public decide

Make changes or ideas that the public would want not just because your losing passengers
That'll never happen,but you cant just blame GNE,the big 3 are all as bad as each other,more interested in competing rather than thinking of the customers
Kind Regards
Tez
(16 Jan 2022, 4:47 pm)Train8261 Wrote: Tbh the only bus on the Little Coasters network that works against the metro kinda is the 42A. If a failed train is withdrawn from service anywhere after Fawdon. The 42A is the only service that links all the rest of the stations but doesn't anymore due it being only once an hour. The 42A works more of a metrolink

Gne could work with Nexus to find out what changes could be done to bring the Little Coasters network to be a reliable service that could see passengers numbers increase. Put it out to the public. Have them decided on the 11/19/41/41A/42/42A to see what changes they would like. Passengers are the key importance or at least that's what the word at GNE is to get people back on board. But you can't really do that if your not letting the passengers decided.

I remember the 5th of September service changes. The backlash gne got was terrible cause a lot of the service changes they put up were (low passenger numbers or not enough money) I remember the 71 was gonna be withdrawn but nope it changed and still stays to this day
The problem is networks hardly change because of a fear of backlash from the very users operators depend on. This article sums up the problem nicely https://humantransit.org/2018/09/why-you...prove.html
(16 Jan 2022, 10:19 pm)DeltaMan Wrote: The problem is networks hardly change because of a fear of backlash from the very users operators depend on. This article sums up the problem nicely https://humantransit.org/2018/09/why-you...prove.html
This article could be described as 'bus consultant blames the public for not improving or changing the network'. 

It's interesting to see that sort of behavior beyond the confines of NE based operators.
'Illegitimis non carborundum'
Could BSIP see the return of 'joint' operated services for certain routes?

If Arriva & GNE decided to work together, they could put both the 308 & 309 under one banner............CoastCityLinks

- Both operated by electric vehicles to the exact same specification.

- Both interworking with each other to improve efficiencies.

- Single fare structure with single & return prices the same. Ability to sell each other's tickets but tickets branded 'CoastCityLinks' rather than Arriva or Go North East to reduce confusion. QR code technology available to differentiate as well as description of tickets.

- GNE pick up the very early morning journeys starting from Whitley Bay, New York or Billy Mill to Newcastle as well as the early morning journeys towards the Coast. Likewise, Arriva pick up the early & late journeys to and from Blyth to reduce dead mileage.

- Up to every 10 mins combined Mon-Sat. Every 30 mins combined evenings, every 15 mins combined Sundays.

Evening departures from Newcastle would be:
- xx:07 - 309 (last bus 23:07)
- xx:37 - 308 (last bus 23:37)