Go North East | January 2022 Service Changes
Go North East | January 2022 Service Changes
(23 Jan 2022, 5:32 pm)Bazza Not pointless to the worker working 9-5 Monday-Friday
(23 Jan 2022, 5:32 pm)Bazza Not pointless to the worker working 9-5 Monday-Friday
(23 Jan 2022, 5:32 pm)Bazza Not pointless to the worker working 9-5 Monday-FridayShows a total lack of imagination by the council. Clinging to this idea that 9-5 is a thing. Yet more backwards thinking from those who want even more control of the network
(23 Jan 2022, 5:32 pm)Bazza Not pointless to the worker working 9-5 Monday-FridayShows a total lack of imagination by the council. Clinging to this idea that 9-5 is a thing. Yet more backwards thinking from those who want even more control of the network
(23 Jan 2022, 8:46 pm)Ambassador Shows a total lack of imagination by the council. Clinging to this idea that 9-5 is a thing. Yet more backwards thinking from those who want even more control of the network
(24 Jan 2022, 4:30 pm)GNE6312 On bus times the X22 is down as returning from the 30th, hopefully this Is true as tbh the X22 seemed to get a decent loading on some journeys.
(24 Jan 2022, 4:30 pm)GNE6312 On bus times the X22 is down as returning from the 30th, hopefully this Is true as tbh the X22 seemed to get a decent loading on some journeys.
(24 Jan 2022, 7:01 pm)busmanT X22 shows up as not running on the 30th, and several days I've checked in early February, on the Go North East websiteSeems like Washington is going back to Normal timetables on Feb5th.
https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/services/GNE/X22?date=2022-02-06&direction=outbound
(24 Jan 2022, 7:01 pm)busmanT X22 shows up as not running on the 30th, and several days I've checked in early February, on the Go North East websiteSeems like Washington is going back to Normal timetables on Feb5th.
https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/services/GNE/X22?date=2022-02-06&direction=outbound
(30 Jan 2022, 11:01 pm)Adrian My thoughts on the X84/X85 changes: https://www.busesandbeyond.co.uk/2022/01...or-hexham/
Comments/views welcome.
(30 Jan 2022, 11:01 pm)Adrian My thoughts on the X84/X85 changes: https://www.busesandbeyond.co.uk/2022/01...or-hexham/
Comments/views welcome.
(30 Jan 2022, 11:20 pm)Thomas12 I still however feel like the X85 is a victim of the X9/X10 coaches not working out - maybe it would still be here if not?
(30 Jan 2022, 11:20 pm)Thomas12 I still however feel like the X85 is a victim of the X9/X10 coaches not working out - maybe it would still be here if not?
(30 Jan 2022, 11:20 pm)Thomas12 Great report, I really enjoyed reading that - thanks for sharing! Hope you make some more reports in the futureAnd X9/X10 were a victim off Oxford, and they sent dodgy coaches, god knows what they'll send back to keep 6377.
Just looked at the new 684 timetable, and it's good to see the 685 journeys included. I noticed the wording is 'At the moment, single and return tickets can only be used on the route for which they are bought'. This suggests that something may be in the pipeline to have mutual ticket acceptance?
Also, just a note on your point about coordination of the services. I think the coordination is more aimed at Heddon-Newcastle, rather than Hexham-Newcastle. I'm not sure what the best approach would be here, but I guess it's either one or the other based on the timings and different routes of the two services.
I still however feel like the X85 is a victim of the X9/X10 coaches not working out - maybe it would still be here if not?
(30 Jan 2022, 11:20 pm)Thomas12 Great report, I really enjoyed reading that - thanks for sharing! Hope you make some more reports in the futureAnd X9/X10 were a victim off Oxford, and they sent dodgy coaches, god knows what they'll send back to keep 6377.
Just looked at the new 684 timetable, and it's good to see the 685 journeys included. I noticed the wording is 'At the moment, single and return tickets can only be used on the route for which they are bought'. This suggests that something may be in the pipeline to have mutual ticket acceptance?
Also, just a note on your point about coordination of the services. I think the coordination is more aimed at Heddon-Newcastle, rather than Hexham-Newcastle. I'm not sure what the best approach would be here, but I guess it's either one or the other based on the timings and different routes of the two services.
I still however feel like the X85 is a victim of the X9/X10 coaches not working out - maybe it would still be here if not?
(30 Jan 2022, 11:01 pm)Adrian My thoughts on the X84/X85 changes: https://www.busesandbeyond.co.uk/2022/01...or-hexham/An enjoyable read as ever. I think to an extent the improvements on the Tyne Valley
Comments/views welcome.
(30 Jan 2022, 11:01 pm)Adrian My thoughts on the X84/X85 changes: https://www.busesandbeyond.co.uk/2022/01...or-hexham/An enjoyable read as ever. I think to an extent the improvements on the Tyne Valley
Comments/views welcome.
I think the issue with the X85 is quite straightforward and has nothing to do with branding, the timetable or any of the creature comforts onboard.
GNE ordered new buses in good faith before covid, then the pandmic hit and then the buses arrived for the X85. New buses + improved rail offer + falling passenger number probably meant the numbers didn't stack up to keep new buses on there. Repayments for vehicles didn't stop during covid after all.
Remember you usually put new buses on your busiest routes due to the higher route costings.
(30 Jan 2022, 11:01 pm)Adrian My thoughts on the X84/X85 changes: https://www.busesandbeyond.co.uk/2022/01...or-hexham/
Comments/views welcome.
(30 Jan 2022, 11:01 pm)Adrian My thoughts on the X84/X85 changes: https://www.busesandbeyond.co.uk/2022/01...or-hexham/
Comments/views welcome.
(31 Jan 2022, 7:02 am)DeltaMan I think the issue with the X85 is quite straightforward and has nothing to do with branding, the timetable or any of the creature comforts onboard.The initial intention for the X84/X85 was to cascade the Volvo B5TLs (now on the X21) then previously allocated to the X9/X10 with the X9/X10 getting either ADL E400MMC / Scania N250UD E400MMC or OM936 StreetDeck
GNE ordered new buses in good faith before covid, then the pandmic hit and then the buses arrived for the X85. New buses + improved rail offer + falling passenger number probably meant the numbers didn't stack up to keep new buses on there. Repayments for vehicles didn't stop during covid after all.
Remember you usually put new buses on your busiest routes due to the higher route costings.
(31 Jan 2022, 7:02 am)DeltaMan I think the issue with the X85 is quite straightforward and has nothing to do with branding, the timetable or any of the creature comforts onboard.The initial intention for the X84/X85 was to cascade the Volvo B5TLs (now on the X21) then previously allocated to the X9/X10 with the X9/X10 getting either ADL E400MMC / Scania N250UD E400MMC or OM936 StreetDeck
GNE ordered new buses in good faith before covid, then the pandmic hit and then the buses arrived for the X85. New buses + improved rail offer + falling passenger number probably meant the numbers didn't stack up to keep new buses on there. Repayments for vehicles didn't stop during covid after all.
Remember you usually put new buses on your busiest routes due to the higher route costings.
(30 Jan 2022, 11:20 pm)Thomas12 Great report, I really enjoyed reading that - thanks for sharing! Hope you make some more reports in the future
Just looked at the new 684 timetable, and it's good to see the 685 journeys included. I noticed the wording is 'At the moment, single and return tickets can only be used on the route for which they are bought'. This suggests that something may be in the pipeline to have mutual ticket acceptance?
Also, just a note on your point about coordination of the services. I think the coordination is more aimed at Heddon-Newcastle, rather than Hexham-Newcastle. I'm not sure what the best approach would be here, but I guess it's either one or the other based on the timings and different routes of the two services.
I still however feel like the X85 is a victim of the X9/X10 coaches not working out - maybe it would still be here if not?
(31 Jan 2022, 12:50 am)Ambassador An enjoyable read as ever. I think to an extent the improvements on the Tyne Valley
line will have also impacted the X85, trains will always outrank the bus in terms of preference for a leisure commuter.
You raise a good point on the effectiveness of branding. You look at the profitable routes across the region like the 39/40, 21 etc they all pass major population centres but they are all historic, they make money in spite of the bus companies input not because of it. Nobody boards the 21 because it has a table with a checkers board, it’s nonsense. The tables are a hindrance.
I think at some point we’ll move away from nonsense like tables and focus on what matters. Pricing, convenience and reliability…I can see it on a generic Ray Stenning branding now.
(31 Jan 2022, 7:02 am)DeltaMan I think the issue with the X85 is quite straightforward and has nothing to do with branding, the timetable or any of the creature comforts onboard.
GNE ordered new buses in good faith before covid, then the pandmic hit and then the buses arrived for the X85. New buses + improved rail offer + falling passenger number probably meant the numbers didn't stack up to keep new buses on there. Repayments for vehicles didn't stop during covid after all.
Remember you usually put new buses on your busiest routes due to the higher route costings.
(31 Jan 2022, 8:05 am)xpm a good round up of the issues there.
when the old Sunday service used to run in the days of darts, it was simply a feeder service for the the 74a service, although often did pick up a fair number of people through the villages and through throckley/Lemington.
the 9.30/10.30 ish buses out of Hexham pre pandemic most days would often be full depending on who got through Hexham first - in the days of the scanias there was little passenger loyalty - just whatever turned up first for most twirlies, although it did have many regulars and regular season ticket holders. Fast forward to when the bus station moved location, there was initially a big drop off because twirlies didn’t want to have to walk to the ‘new’ bus station. Combine this and turnover of drivers periodically, and problems with ticket acceptance, timetable changes etc led to gne losing almost all of their business passengers to the Arriva x85 at the time, despite them running anything that happened to be spare in the garage that day.
ENCTS passengers were not overly keen when the new citaros came into service as despite their refurb, their seats were rock hard and uncomfortable for most. Add to this serious reliability issues with the third party eminox system which resulted in the buses derating frequently in service.
the encts never, and still have not returned in anything like the numbers they used too - particularly for the 9.30/10.30 busy journeys. There also isn’t the same level of tourist traffic that used it as a feeder to get the ad122 bus either, even though this year they dropped the tickets finally to a sensible level. The other variable is turnover of drivers. There are some excellent drivers at Hexham depot, but when you start to have new drivers on the route, particularly inexperienced drivers. It’s a tight route both in terms of time and width of road and margin for error is very small. Passengers on the route for the most part are quite canny but don’t tolerate poor service or tardiness if there’s another option.
Apart from morning and afternoon peaks solo would be fine and easier to operate on these routes.
(30 Jan 2022, 11:20 pm)Thomas12 Great report, I really enjoyed reading that - thanks for sharing! Hope you make some more reports in the future
Just looked at the new 684 timetable, and it's good to see the 685 journeys included. I noticed the wording is 'At the moment, single and return tickets can only be used on the route for which they are bought'. This suggests that something may be in the pipeline to have mutual ticket acceptance?
Also, just a note on your point about coordination of the services. I think the coordination is more aimed at Heddon-Newcastle, rather than Hexham-Newcastle. I'm not sure what the best approach would be here, but I guess it's either one or the other based on the timings and different routes of the two services.
I still however feel like the X85 is a victim of the X9/X10 coaches not working out - maybe it would still be here if not?
(31 Jan 2022, 12:50 am)Ambassador An enjoyable read as ever. I think to an extent the improvements on the Tyne Valley
line will have also impacted the X85, trains will always outrank the bus in terms of preference for a leisure commuter.
You raise a good point on the effectiveness of branding. You look at the profitable routes across the region like the 39/40, 21 etc they all pass major population centres but they are all historic, they make money in spite of the bus companies input not because of it. Nobody boards the 21 because it has a table with a checkers board, it’s nonsense. The tables are a hindrance.
I think at some point we’ll move away from nonsense like tables and focus on what matters. Pricing, convenience and reliability…I can see it on a generic Ray Stenning branding now.
(31 Jan 2022, 7:02 am)DeltaMan I think the issue with the X85 is quite straightforward and has nothing to do with branding, the timetable or any of the creature comforts onboard.
GNE ordered new buses in good faith before covid, then the pandmic hit and then the buses arrived for the X85. New buses + improved rail offer + falling passenger number probably meant the numbers didn't stack up to keep new buses on there. Repayments for vehicles didn't stop during covid after all.
Remember you usually put new buses on your busiest routes due to the higher route costings.
(31 Jan 2022, 8:05 am)xpm a good round up of the issues there.
when the old Sunday service used to run in the days of darts, it was simply a feeder service for the the 74a service, although often did pick up a fair number of people through the villages and through throckley/Lemington.
the 9.30/10.30 ish buses out of Hexham pre pandemic most days would often be full depending on who got through Hexham first - in the days of the scanias there was little passenger loyalty - just whatever turned up first for most twirlies, although it did have many regulars and regular season ticket holders. Fast forward to when the bus station moved location, there was initially a big drop off because twirlies didn’t want to have to walk to the ‘new’ bus station. Combine this and turnover of drivers periodically, and problems with ticket acceptance, timetable changes etc led to gne losing almost all of their business passengers to the Arriva x85 at the time, despite them running anything that happened to be spare in the garage that day.
ENCTS passengers were not overly keen when the new citaros came into service as despite their refurb, their seats were rock hard and uncomfortable for most. Add to this serious reliability issues with the third party eminox system which resulted in the buses derating frequently in service.
the encts never, and still have not returned in anything like the numbers they used too - particularly for the 9.30/10.30 busy journeys. There also isn’t the same level of tourist traffic that used it as a feeder to get the ad122 bus either, even though this year they dropped the tickets finally to a sensible level. The other variable is turnover of drivers. There are some excellent drivers at Hexham depot, but when you start to have new drivers on the route, particularly inexperienced drivers. It’s a tight route both in terms of time and width of road and margin for error is very small. Passengers on the route for the most part are quite canny but don’t tolerate poor service or tardiness if there’s another option.
Apart from morning and afternoon peaks solo would be fine and easier to operate on these routes.
(31 Jan 2022, 5:23 pm)Adrian On coordination: I'm not sure what the thinking would be behind aligning the eastbound timetable only between Heddon-Newcastle. I'd say it's more of a coincidence than anything that it's aligned, and that the reason it's not aligned out of Hexham is to reduce the amount of waste in the duties. That of course doesn't help the customer.
(31 Jan 2022, 5:23 pm)Adrian On coordination: I'm not sure what the thinking would be behind aligning the eastbound timetable only between Heddon-Newcastle. I'd say it's more of a coincidence than anything that it's aligned, and that the reason it's not aligned out of Hexham is to reduce the amount of waste in the duties. That of course doesn't help the customer.
(31 Jan 2022, 5:32 pm)Dan It's impossible to co-ordinate the 684/685 completely: the 684 has an end-to-end journey time of 1hr 8m, whereas the 685 has an end-to-end journey time of 51m.Dan looking at the X85, on the AD122 buses seems to be quite good, with only 8 seats remaining, could if it kept like this possible have a double decker or a E200 operating it on a evening, and that could operate a 'peak' 10 instead of the dead run from Hexham to Newcastle. And on morning, send a 10 running X85 down, and turning into 10.
To co-ordinate the times from Hexham, you'd then have an uneven spread of departures out of Newcastle. The latter is more likely to cause an issue as departures in Eldon Square are governed by strict guidelines to avoid stand clashes.
So effectively the timetable is co-ordinated both east and westbound between Heddon-on-the-Wall and Newcastle, but if you just miss a 685, customers have the option of catching the 684 half an hour later, but they'll only arrive into Hexham 13 minutes earlier than the 685 which follows half an hour afterwards.
The X84/X85 have never been co-ordinated well either and it's because the X84 (and now 684) was always the slower of the two.
(31 Jan 2022, 5:32 pm)Dan It's impossible to co-ordinate the 684/685 completely: the 684 has an end-to-end journey time of 1hr 8m, whereas the 685 has an end-to-end journey time of 51m.Dan looking at the X85, on the AD122 buses seems to be quite good, with only 8 seats remaining, could if it kept like this possible have a double decker or a E200 operating it on a evening, and that could operate a 'peak' 10 instead of the dead run from Hexham to Newcastle. And on morning, send a 10 running X85 down, and turning into 10.
To co-ordinate the times from Hexham, you'd then have an uneven spread of departures out of Newcastle. The latter is more likely to cause an issue as departures in Eldon Square are governed by strict guidelines to avoid stand clashes.
So effectively the timetable is co-ordinated both east and westbound between Heddon-on-the-Wall and Newcastle, but if you just miss a 685, customers have the option of catching the 684 half an hour later, but they'll only arrive into Hexham 13 minutes earlier than the 685 which follows half an hour afterwards.
The X84/X85 have never been co-ordinated well either and it's because the X84 (and now 684) was always the slower of the two.
(31 Jan 2022, 5:37 pm)Omega54 Dan looking at the X85, on the AD122 buses seems to be quite good, with only 8 seats remaining, could if it kept like this possible have a double decker or a E200 operating it on a evening, and that could operate a 'peak' 10 instead of the dead run from Hexham to Newcastle. And on morning, send a 10 running X85 down, and turning into 10.
(31 Jan 2022, 5:37 pm)Omega54 Dan looking at the X85, on the AD122 buses seems to be quite good, with only 8 seats remaining, could if it kept like this possible have a double decker or a E200 operating it on a evening, and that could operate a 'peak' 10 instead of the dead run from Hexham to Newcastle. And on morning, send a 10 running X85 down, and turning into 10.
