Bus services operating with local authority funding
Bus services operating with local authority funding
(19 Jan 2022, 2:04 pm)Storx I can't see any new depot in North Tyneside, the place blatantly barely makes any money considering every route is subsidised bar the 1/309/310/311 and the last 3 are on a reduced timetable at night time because, 'North Tyneside is a low usage area during the day, never mind the evening,' and the drivers are used elsewhere as said last night.I know this was said in a different thread but it's not correct. The drivers that would normally have been driving the evening 1, 309, 310, 311, 18 and 19 etc that have now been cancelled are actually sat in the depot canteen for 5-6 hours doing nothing, there is usually 5 or so sat there
There's no chance for getting investment in a full depot out there imo unless something changes big time or there's some form of working together with other operators to save money, work with Arriva at Walkergate for example which supposedly is going to have electric charging potential but that sort of partnership is unknown.
(19 Jan 2022, 2:04 pm)Storx I can't see any new depot in North Tyneside, the place blatantly barely makes any money considering every route is subsidised bar the 1/309/310/311 and the last 3 are on a reduced timetable at night time because, 'North Tyneside is a low usage area during the day, never mind the evening,' and the drivers are used elsewhere as said last night.I know this was said in a different thread but it's not correct. The drivers that would normally have been driving the evening 1, 309, 310, 311, 18 and 19 etc that have now been cancelled are actually sat in the depot canteen for 5-6 hours doing nothing, there is usually 5 or so sat there
There's no chance for getting investment in a full depot out there imo unless something changes big time or there's some form of working together with other operators to save money, work with Arriva at Walkergate for example which supposedly is going to have electric charging potential but that sort of partnership is unknown.
(19 Jan 2022, 2:09 pm)Thomas12 The Little Coasters services aren't subsidised during the day, apart from the northern sections of the 42/42A. I also believe the 19 is commercial between Northumberland Park and North Shields during the day.
(19 Jan 2022, 2:25 pm)soxet12 I know this was said in a different thread but it's not correct. The drivers that would normally have been driving the cancelled services on the evening 1, 310 311, 18 and 19 etc are actually sat in the depot canteen for 5-6 hours doing nothing, there is usually 5 or so sat there
(19 Jan 2022, 2:09 pm)Thomas12 The Little Coasters services aren't subsidised during the day, apart from the northern sections of the 42/42A. I also believe the 19 is commercial between Northumberland Park and North Shields during the day.
(19 Jan 2022, 2:25 pm)soxet12 I know this was said in a different thread but it's not correct. The drivers that would normally have been driving the cancelled services on the evening 1, 310 311, 18 and 19 etc are actually sat in the depot canteen for 5-6 hours doing nothing, there is usually 5 or so sat there
(19 Jan 2022, 2:26 pm)Storx Apologies misworded that, that just meant in general at anytime rather than fully subsidised. I can't imagine an operator would openly let another operator run their services (badly) at night if they were top performers as seen with Arriva who suddenly decided everything could be ran by them in Durham in the end. I believe most the Arriva network is commercial now and I can't imagine the 53 and the likes making a fortune (if anything) at night - I could be wrong there but they don't seem to go up for tender.
Ah really, honestly I'd say I'm surprised but I'm not tbh.
(19 Jan 2022, 2:26 pm)Storx Apologies misworded that, that just meant in general at anytime rather than fully subsidised. I can't imagine an operator would openly let another operator run their services (badly) at night if they were top performers as seen with Arriva who suddenly decided everything could be ran by them in Durham in the end. I believe most the Arriva network is commercial now and I can't imagine the 53 and the likes making a fortune (if anything) at night - I could be wrong there but they don't seem to go up for tender.
Ah really, honestly I'd say I'm surprised but I'm not tbh.
(19 Jan 2022, 2:26 pm)Storx Apologies misworded that, that just meant in general at anytime rather than fully subsidised. I can't imagine an operator would openly let another operator run their services (badly) at night if they were top performers as seen with Arriva who suddenly decided everything could be ran by them in Durham in the end. I believe most the Arriva network is commercial now and I can't imagine the 53 and the likes making a fortune (if anything) at night - I could be wrong there but they don't seem to go up for tender.
(19 Jan 2022, 2:26 pm)Storx Apologies misworded that, that just meant in general at anytime rather than fully subsidised. I can't imagine an operator would openly let another operator run their services (badly) at night if they were top performers as seen with Arriva who suddenly decided everything could be ran by them in Durham in the end. I believe most the Arriva network is commercial now and I can't imagine the 53 and the likes making a fortune (if anything) at night - I could be wrong there but they don't seem to go up for tender.
(19 Jan 2022, 2:34 pm)Thomas12 Ah okay sorry, I understand what you are saying now. I believe the 1 is subsidised between Whitley Bay and North Shields on an evening too, but I'm not 100% sure on that.
I agree with your point, especially an operator like Gateshead Central Taxis. There seems to be a bus missing from the evening/Sunday 41/41A every time I try to catch it, to the point where I've just given up. Hopefully they manage to win them back in March but I'm very doubtful about that.
(19 Jan 2022, 2:37 pm)Dan Some services receive deminimis funding, so there isn't a formal tender and the operator provides the local authority with a price without going through the formal procurement process. I think you'll find a lot of Arriva and Stagecoach services receive deminimis funding - from memory there has been an FOI request in the past to Nexus confirming details of all contracts including those with deminimis funding.
Evening journeys on service 53 are secured, and indeed Nexus had (until they withdrew all tenders for March 2022) actually put out a tender to operate the 53 on an evening this year. Hourly departures at 20:24, 21:24 and 22:24 from North Shields, and 20:25, 21:25 and 22:25 from Cramlington (with the final departures currently at 23:11 from Cramlington and 23:24 from North Shields cancelled).
(19 Jan 2022, 2:34 pm)Thomas12 Ah okay sorry, I understand what you are saying now. I believe the 1 is subsidised between Whitley Bay and North Shields on an evening too, but I'm not 100% sure on that.
I agree with your point, especially an operator like Gateshead Central Taxis. There seems to be a bus missing from the evening/Sunday 41/41A every time I try to catch it, to the point where I've just given up. Hopefully they manage to win them back in March but I'm very doubtful about that.
(19 Jan 2022, 2:37 pm)Dan Some services receive deminimis funding, so there isn't a formal tender and the operator provides the local authority with a price without going through the formal procurement process. I think you'll find a lot of Arriva and Stagecoach services receive deminimis funding - from memory there has been an FOI request in the past to Nexus confirming details of all contracts including those with deminimis funding.
Evening journeys on service 53 are secured, and indeed Nexus had (until they withdrew all tenders for March 2022) actually put out a tender to operate the 53 on an evening this year. Hourly departures at 20:24, 21:24 and 22:24 from North Shields, and 20:25, 21:25 and 22:25 from Cramlington (with the final departures currently at 23:11 from Cramlington and 23:24 from North Shields cancelled).
(19 Jan 2022, 4:01 pm)Dan Fully commercial, or not supported by Nexus, yes.
(19 Jan 2022, 4:01 pm)Dan Fully commercial, or not supported by Nexus, yes.
(19 Jan 2022, 3:00 pm)Storx Yeah I know, just found a document (see below) and the 1 is subsidised in the evening and mornings aswell, appears to be the full route aswell.Wow...didn't realise there were so many.
Interesting, always thought it was odd how some didn't go for tender, just found a document with all the routes - https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/6...sthrough=1 and there's some right surprises on there.
The 20 between South Shields and Sunderland during the week in the evening is a surprise tbh. Infact quite a lot of the Sunderland network seems to be subsidised at nights, assuming these are won in the same way.
Didn't realise the 51/51A (Arriva) was a fully subsidised route either. Mind I'm surprised the 46/52/54 Arriva aren't on there though.
(19 Jan 2022, 3:00 pm)Storx Yeah I know, just found a document (see below) and the 1 is subsidised in the evening and mornings aswell, appears to be the full route aswell.Wow...didn't realise there were so many.
Interesting, always thought it was odd how some didn't go for tender, just found a document with all the routes - https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/6...sthrough=1 and there's some right surprises on there.
The 20 between South Shields and Sunderland during the week in the evening is a surprise tbh. Infact quite a lot of the Sunderland network seems to be subsidised at nights, assuming these are won in the same way.
Didn't realise the 51/51A (Arriva) was a fully subsidised route either. Mind I'm surprised the 46/52/54 Arriva aren't on there though.
If I'm reading that correctly....nigh on £200,000 on the 23 between Birtley and Washington
Christ they could probably uber everyone around for a quarter of the cost. No wonder Cnetral Govt is wary of giving Nexus any money
(19 Jan 2022, 2:04 pm)Storx I can't see any new depot in North Tyneside, the place blatantly barely makes any money considering every route is subsidised bar the 1/309/310/311 and the last 3 are on a reduced timetable at night time because, 'North Tyneside is a low usage area during the day, never mind the evening,' and the drivers are used elsewhere as said last night.During January, it would make sense to drop the evening 311 runs. If anything, the drivers can then be used elsewhere or on standby to cover self isolation / sickness.
(19 Jan 2022, 2:04 pm)Storx I can't see any new depot in North Tyneside, the place blatantly barely makes any money considering every route is subsidised bar the 1/309/310/311 and the last 3 are on a reduced timetable at night time because, 'North Tyneside is a low usage area during the day, never mind the evening,' and the drivers are used elsewhere as said last night.During January, it would make sense to drop the evening 311 runs. If anything, the drivers can then be used elsewhere or on standby to cover self isolation / sickness.
(19 Jan 2022, 3:00 pm)Storx Yeah I know, just found a document (see below) and the 1 is subsidised in the evening and mornings aswell, appears to be the full route aswell.
Interesting, always thought it was odd how some didn't go for tender, just found a document with all the routes - https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/6...sthrough=1 and there's some right surprises on there.
The 20 between South Shields and Sunderland during the week in the evening is a surprise tbh. Infact quite a lot of the Sunderland network seems to be subsidised at nights, assuming these are won in the same way.
Didn't realise the 51/51A (Arriva) was a fully subsidised route either. Mind I'm surprised the 46/52/54 Arriva aren't on there though.
(19 Jan 2022, 3:00 pm)Storx Yeah I know, just found a document (see below) and the 1 is subsidised in the evening and mornings aswell, appears to be the full route aswell.
Interesting, always thought it was odd how some didn't go for tender, just found a document with all the routes - https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/6...sthrough=1 and there's some right surprises on there.
The 20 between South Shields and Sunderland during the week in the evening is a surprise tbh. Infact quite a lot of the Sunderland network seems to be subsidised at nights, assuming these are won in the same way.
Didn't realise the 51/51A (Arriva) was a fully subsidised route either. Mind I'm surprised the 46/52/54 Arriva aren't on there though.
(19 Jan 2022, 9:03 pm)peter If anyone's interested, there's a similar document available for DCC supported services - although it is a couple years out of date now.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/a...ng-1109879
Various parts of evening services, such as the 6, 14 (now X20), 15, 16A, 28/28B, 34/34A, 78, X25, X30, X70
(19 Jan 2022, 9:03 pm)peter If anyone's interested, there's a similar document available for DCC supported services - although it is a couple years out of date now.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/a...ng-1109879
Various parts of evening services, such as the 6, 14 (now X20), 15, 16A, 28/28B, 34/34A, 78, X25, X30, X70
(19 Jan 2022, 9:51 pm)Storx https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/b...ng-1591624I think that 309 was subsidised starting back in 2013 when GNE tried withdrawing a journey that got workers into Cobalt before 7am. It was momths before the Mercs/Omnis were replaced with B9TLs.
Northumberland aswell might aswell add it in. Seems like everything from GNE other than the 10 is subsidised (even the 309).
(19 Jan 2022, 9:51 pm)Storx https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/b...ng-1591624I think that 309 was subsidised starting back in 2013 when GNE tried withdrawing a journey that got workers into Cobalt before 7am. It was momths before the Mercs/Omnis were replaced with B9TLs.
Northumberland aswell might aswell add it in. Seems like everything from GNE other than the 10 is subsidised (even the 309).
(19 Jan 2022, 9:51 pm)Storx https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/b...ng-1591624Aye, there was all sorts of issues a few years back when GNE wanted to withdraw a couple of early morning runs from Blyth.
Northumberland aswell might aswell add it in. Seems like everything from GNE other than the 10 is subsidised (even the 309).
(19 Jan 2022, 9:51 pm)Storx https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/b...ng-1591624Aye, there was all sorts of issues a few years back when GNE wanted to withdraw a couple of early morning runs from Blyth.
Northumberland aswell might aswell add it in. Seems like everything from GNE other than the 10 is subsidised (even the 309).
