Arriva Sapphire
Arriva Sapphire
(06 Feb 2022, 1:42 pm)Adrian I don't understand why the choice offered has to be the least worst option though. Surely that is a factor in deterring people from using (or even trying) public transport?
Perhaps we need to do more to ensure that buses do turn up and they are well presented? There's still too much of an 'any bus is better than no bus' attitude in the industry, but that doesn't mean we should accept poor standards and the perception that public transport is filthy & germ-ridden.
(06 Feb 2022, 1:42 pm)Adrian I don't understand why the choice offered has to be the least worst option though. Surely that is a factor in deterring people from using (or even trying) public transport?
Perhaps we need to do more to ensure that buses do turn up and they are well presented? There's still too much of an 'any bus is better than no bus' attitude in the industry, but that doesn't mean we should accept poor standards and the perception that public transport is filthy & germ-ridden.
(06 Feb 2022, 9:45 am)Dan I'm still perplexed as to why Arriva have prioritised the gas buses at Darlington.
(06 Feb 2022, 9:45 am)Dan I'm still perplexed as to why Arriva have prioritised the gas buses at Darlington.
(06 Feb 2022, 1:36 pm)Rob44 it shouldn't but that what my car driving workmates have said. Im on my own here now so cant ask but assume they've been stung when traveling by bus and it not turning up. Like i've said before us enthusiast see bus travel differently to people who have to use buses to get from a 2 b. that's what they want to get to a 2 b whether is on a 70 plate bus or a 63 plate bus, whether is has NSA or doesn't have NSA whether it has wifi whether it doesn't etc etc
(06 Feb 2022, 1:36 pm)Rob44 it shouldn't but that what my car driving workmates have said. Im on my own here now so cant ask but assume they've been stung when traveling by bus and it not turning up. Like i've said before us enthusiast see bus travel differently to people who have to use buses to get from a 2 b. that's what they want to get to a 2 b whether is on a 70 plate bus or a 63 plate bus, whether is has NSA or doesn't have NSA whether it has wifi whether it doesn't etc etc
(06 Feb 2022, 1:55 pm)Rob44 in a ideal world that would be great. But surely if you asked a 100 people to name the most important thing to make you travel by bus surely that it turns up would be up there as the top answer. I cant believe " a table to use my laptop" or " a bus in a unique color for that route " would be up there. Look at orange arrow... he's lost jobs due to buses not arriving and being late. i would think they would have been happy with any bus that turned up on time to get him to work?
Imagine if you are using public transport for a change and the bus doesn't turn up that's going to put you off. But if the bus turns up, but it's a bit old and a couple of charging points which tbf they probably didn't know were there and a couple of seat where the tape hasn't been fully removed, would that put THEM off using the bus?
If it was a choice between arriving and being well presented surely turning up has to be the choice? And we keep getting told in the current climate ALL bus companies are suffering so maybe ARRIVA see getting the bus to turn up as the priority where as other see panting them in different colors as theirs?
(06 Feb 2022, 1:55 pm)Rob44 in a ideal world that would be great. But surely if you asked a 100 people to name the most important thing to make you travel by bus surely that it turns up would be up there as the top answer. I cant believe " a table to use my laptop" or " a bus in a unique color for that route " would be up there. Look at orange arrow... he's lost jobs due to buses not arriving and being late. i would think they would have been happy with any bus that turned up on time to get him to work?
Imagine if you are using public transport for a change and the bus doesn't turn up that's going to put you off. But if the bus turns up, but it's a bit old and a couple of charging points which tbf they probably didn't know were there and a couple of seat where the tape hasn't been fully removed, would that put THEM off using the bus?
If it was a choice between arriving and being well presented surely turning up has to be the choice? And we keep getting told in the current climate ALL bus companies are suffering so maybe ARRIVA see getting the bus to turn up as the priority where as other see panting them in different colors as theirs?
(06 Feb 2022, 2:06 pm)Adrian You've changed the scope though. The thread is about maintaining buses and keeping them in a well-presented condition, not about adding tables, charging points or repainting them into all different colours.
Of course people are going to choose the bus that arrives over the one that doesn't, but why does this have to be the choice on offer? Like I said above, why can't we have buses that turn up and buses that are well presented. The two options shouldn't be mutually exclusive.
Oh and Sapphire had started losing it's sparkle long before the pandemic.
(06 Feb 2022, 2:06 pm)Adrian You've changed the scope though. The thread is about maintaining buses and keeping them in a well-presented condition, not about adding tables, charging points or repainting them into all different colours.
Of course people are going to choose the bus that arrives over the one that doesn't, but why does this have to be the choice on offer? Like I said above, why can't we have buses that turn up and buses that are well presented. The two options shouldn't be mutually exclusive.
Oh and Sapphire had started losing it's sparkle long before the pandemic.
(06 Feb 2022, 2:12 pm)Rob44 Because we keep getting told that all the bus companies as skint! Like i say maybe arriva see getting a bus on the road in OK, maybe not ideal condition, to get their customers from a 2 b where other just think oh well cancel that bus?? People will be moan next about the destination screen of a GCT bus not working and just having a bit of paper in the window saying 42a but forgetting at least it arrived to take you to where you want to go.
(06 Feb 2022, 2:12 pm)Rob44 Because we keep getting told that all the bus companies as skint! Like i say maybe arriva see getting a bus on the road in OK, maybe not ideal condition, to get their customers from a 2 b where other just think oh well cancel that bus?? People will be moan next about the destination screen of a GCT bus not working and just having a bit of paper in the window saying 42a but forgetting at least it arrived to take you to where you want to go.
(06 Feb 2022, 2:04 pm)omnicity4659 I agree that the bus turning up (and on time) is the most important aspect for all passengers.
A sizeable amount of passengers have switched from the car to bus over the past decade through the provision of phone chargers, tables (places to socialise with friends/family on board, or to catch up on work through tablets/laptops). The provision of next stop audio-visual also increases confidence in those unfamiliar with bus travel, or the area, as well as those who are visually impaired or hard-of-hearing. So when a bus turns up that doesn't have these features, it is disappointing or detrimental to people who have switched because they've been offered those services.
In my opinion, from an on-board offering point of view, companies need to focus on getting these basics right first inside the bus, so regardless of what age or colour the bus, you know what you're getting - instead we've ended up with a mish-mash of different coloured buses with different things inside depending on where you live or which direction you're travelling in and it's that consistency, as well as cleanliness, that passengers would actually appreciate. Then when they have that sorted, then they can look into marketing what they have as a whole (and be proud of it) and not just on a route-by-route basis whenever they've painted something or had a handful of new buses.
From talking to those across various departments and companies, more (and a hell of a lot of) time, effort and money needs to be spent on bringing maintenance and punctuality up to standard again. Arriva and Go North East are running their engineering departments on a shoestring budget, whilst all companies are struggling to recognise problem points with punctuality with their services (especially over the last couple of years)... then they point the fingers at ex- and potential customers for holding their ever-deteriorating ingbus service up.
And that's the view of an "enthusiast", who is also an ex-bus commuter and frequent leisure travel customer, who since took the plunge and got a car - where I don't have to worry about the random roulette of having an infotainment system, comfortable seating, air con, USB chargers (or an actual vehicle!) or not.....amongst other problems. But funnily enough, bus companies seem to think they know better than those telling them how they could attract them back, so these points are never really addressed properly (despite the endless surveys from local authorities and Arriva!).
(06 Feb 2022, 2:04 pm)omnicity4659 I agree that the bus turning up (and on time) is the most important aspect for all passengers.
A sizeable amount of passengers have switched from the car to bus over the past decade through the provision of phone chargers, tables (places to socialise with friends/family on board, or to catch up on work through tablets/laptops). The provision of next stop audio-visual also increases confidence in those unfamiliar with bus travel, or the area, as well as those who are visually impaired or hard-of-hearing. So when a bus turns up that doesn't have these features, it is disappointing or detrimental to people who have switched because they've been offered those services.
In my opinion, from an on-board offering point of view, companies need to focus on getting these basics right first inside the bus, so regardless of what age or colour the bus, you know what you're getting - instead we've ended up with a mish-mash of different coloured buses with different things inside depending on where you live or which direction you're travelling in and it's that consistency, as well as cleanliness, that passengers would actually appreciate. Then when they have that sorted, then they can look into marketing what they have as a whole (and be proud of it) and not just on a route-by-route basis whenever they've painted something or had a handful of new buses.
From talking to those across various departments and companies, more (and a hell of a lot of) time, effort and money needs to be spent on bringing maintenance and punctuality up to standard again. Arriva and Go North East are running their engineering departments on a shoestring budget, whilst all companies are struggling to recognise problem points with punctuality with their services (especially over the last couple of years)... then they point the fingers at ex- and potential customers for holding their ever-deteriorating ingbus service up.
And that's the view of an "enthusiast", who is also an ex-bus commuter and frequent leisure travel customer, who since took the plunge and got a car - where I don't have to worry about the random roulette of having an infotainment system, comfortable seating, air con, USB chargers (or an actual vehicle!) or not.....amongst other problems. But funnily enough, bus companies seem to think they know better than those telling them how they could attract them back, so these points are never really addressed properly (despite the endless surveys from local authorities and Arriva!).
The problem with Sapphire is Arriva just copied Stagecoach with the Gold concept without understanding why Stagecoach were doing it.
Stagecoach did a lot of market research about underdeveloped markets and how to tempt non bus users in those areas.
Arriva just slapped the "Sapphire" logo and retrofited chucky plug sockets on anything with four wheels without actually understanding why they were doing it. It was/is essentially meaninglessness
(06 Feb 2022, 6:15 pm)DeltaMan The problem with Sapphire is Arriva just copied Stagecoach with the Gold concept without understanding why Stagecoach were doing it.But didn't they hire someone to design it all? The same person who likes to create desire.
Stagecoach did a lot of market research about underdeveloped markets and how to tempt non bus users in those areas.
Arriva just slapped the "Sapphire" logo and retrofited chucky plug sockets on anything with four wheels without actually understanding why they were doing it. It was/is essentially meaninglessness
(06 Feb 2022, 6:15 pm)DeltaMan The problem with Sapphire is Arriva just copied Stagecoach with the Gold concept without understanding why Stagecoach were doing it.But didn't they hire someone to design it all? The same person who likes to create desire.
Stagecoach did a lot of market research about underdeveloped markets and how to tempt non bus users in those areas.
Arriva just slapped the "Sapphire" logo and retrofited chucky plug sockets on anything with four wheels without actually understanding why they were doing it. It was/is essentially meaninglessness
I do think Arriva need to take of attention to detail and tidy up a bit!
But I don't think branding as such given their nature of business and work suits Arriva and sticking with one livery (and even perhaps a generic non-route specific 'X' livery) would work better.
Arriva did initially have good intentions with the original Sapphire / MAX but looks like DB don't want to continue with it and just want to provide a bus service. If a new MD of GAG or GNE/EY rocked up tomorrow morning, they could easily decide "ahhh forget XLines, lets chuck a Ride Kite Ranger on the X45/X46 and a brand spanking new StreetDeck on the X5/X15"
Originally Sapphire worked when it only a selection of a few routes. But because they made so many routes Sapphire, and introducing the MAX brand, it kind of waters it all down.
So, when Sapphire was introduced we were promised new vehicles, quality seats, dedicated drivers, next stop screen and announcements, charging points.. and what have we now?
The buses are now middle aged, the dedicated drivers lasted about five minutes, the NSA rarely work for both audio and visual, the charging points almost never work. I was never a fan of the seating anyway but fair enough. The windows are often dirty and you cant see through them properly, the external marketing is usually missing lettering and needing redoing.
The internal marketing is years out of date on the X3/X4 buses (it's a minor point, but the 4 section between Loftus and Whitby has long gone, so why not keep the posters accurate and upto date?)
Yes, a bus turning up and on time is everyone's priority. But it isn't asking a lot , either in cost terms or effort, for presentation to be a lot better than it is at the moment. And don't forget that it was Arriva who decided a high spec brand (introduced with great fanfare at the time) was the way forward, and would encourage new customers to use the services. So I think it's more than fair for us to be critical of what they've done or not done since then.
(06 Feb 2022, 2:03 pm)Jimmi Arriva seemingly want to be rid of the old 'Eco Green' livery the most right now, Yorkshire & North West are currently in the process of treating their B5LH's so chances are the StreetLite's at Jesmond and 1579/80 at Belmont will likely follow next. The seats in the gas buses also needed some attention as many had come away although with the exception of the ex demos only selected seats on each example have been replaced rather than all of them.How many of the Gas Caetanos have been repainted?
I'm hoping the North East pretty much just abandons the Sapphire livery as much of the buses to that standard just seem to end up everywhere now, Darlington for example now have a booked decker turn on weekdays on both the X27 & 1/5/5A/X1 with 7 branding whilst the 7 gets left with other stuff such as StreetLite's, gas buses and Solo's.
(06 Feb 2022, 2:03 pm)Jimmi Arriva seemingly want to be rid of the old 'Eco Green' livery the most right now, Yorkshire & North West are currently in the process of treating their B5LH's so chances are the StreetLite's at Jesmond and 1579/80 at Belmont will likely follow next. The seats in the gas buses also needed some attention as many had come away although with the exception of the ex demos only selected seats on each example have been replaced rather than all of them.How many of the Gas Caetanos have been repainted?
I'm hoping the North East pretty much just abandons the Sapphire livery as much of the buses to that standard just seem to end up everywhere now, Darlington for example now have a booked decker turn on weekdays on both the X27 & 1/5/5A/X1 with 7 branding whilst the 7 gets left with other stuff such as StreetLite's, gas buses and Solo's.
(10 Feb 2022, 6:49 pm)NewcastleOne How many of the Gas Caetanos have been repainted?9 going off BusTimes. 4801/03/05/08/09 still to do, 03 & 05 haven't been out for over a week so these may currently be away getting refreshed.
(10 Feb 2022, 6:49 pm)NewcastleOne How many of the Gas Caetanos have been repainted?9 going off BusTimes. 4801/03/05/08/09 still to do, 03 & 05 haven't been out for over a week so these may currently be away getting refreshed.
