Go North East: Major Service Changes July 2022
Go North East: Major Service Changes July 2022
(21 Aug 2022, 9:13 pm)xpm and that is exactly the problem - half the time it is completely empty, might take an odd one or two from Alston to halty and back, a couple from Halton Lea Gate, and someone from Slaggy, but that's about it. It could be a completely soul destroying duty ten and a half hours of solitude - worse in the winter when the weather came in - running about in bad conditions for no benefit for anyone - that triip back across Alston Moor and Whitfield could be long and hairy.I think next year when the contracts are now scheduled for renewal/review, there should be some reviews into the passenger numbers as in some places and some routes there's probs ways to make them cheaper to run, unless some are tagged onto scholars and the like where a higher capacity is required, half of these tenders around Hexham could be done with say a Ford Transit like Rural Link/L&B Travel are already using on their tendered runs in the area.
From what I understand it's a Beechings route - so there's always going to be some sort of service on there with a minimum number of journeys. Prior to the most recent changes most people agreed the direction of travel at the time was the wrong way around - so it should have been going to Alston when it was coming from there - and vice-versa.
In latter years the last 185 was always empty both ways, and more often than not asides from tourist season you could often carry less than half a dozen people a day on all of the 185 trips.
681 was sometimes a little busier depending on whether an odd group of teenagers wanted to go to Halty to generally make a nuisance of themselves around the train station, but again more often than not it was an odd person here and there that were regulars - and by regular that was more often than not, once a week.
(21 Aug 2022, 9:13 pm)xpm and that is exactly the problem - half the time it is completely empty, might take an odd one or two from Alston to halty and back, a couple from Halton Lea Gate, and someone from Slaggy, but that's about it. It could be a completely soul destroying duty ten and a half hours of solitude - worse in the winter when the weather came in - running about in bad conditions for no benefit for anyone - that triip back across Alston Moor and Whitfield could be long and hairy.I think next year when the contracts are now scheduled for renewal/review, there should be some reviews into the passenger numbers as in some places and some routes there's probs ways to make them cheaper to run, unless some are tagged onto scholars and the like where a higher capacity is required, half of these tenders around Hexham could be done with say a Ford Transit like Rural Link/L&B Travel are already using on their tendered runs in the area.
From what I understand it's a Beechings route - so there's always going to be some sort of service on there with a minimum number of journeys. Prior to the most recent changes most people agreed the direction of travel at the time was the wrong way around - so it should have been going to Alston when it was coming from there - and vice-versa.
In latter years the last 185 was always empty both ways, and more often than not asides from tourist season you could often carry less than half a dozen people a day on all of the 185 trips.
681 was sometimes a little busier depending on whether an odd group of teenagers wanted to go to Halty to generally make a nuisance of themselves around the train station, but again more often than not it was an odd person here and there that were regulars - and by regular that was more often than not, once a week.
The issue with Alston is Cumbria County Council.
They do not subsidise ANY conventional bus services. Unless somebody sets up a "Community Transport" style operation then they don't care.
It clearly comes down to money, but there was hardly mention of Alston at all in the counties BSIP submission either.
The other issue is even if there is a pot of money for buses, where do they do go? You could make a case for Carlisle, Penrith, Hexham and Haltwhistle. I'd say Carlisle would offer more bang for thier buck and seek to extend the short 685s from Brampton to Alston.
(22 Aug 2022, 10:55 am)Storx imo they should start community transport groups where they engage with the pensioners and setup a selection of routes similar to Spirit Group used to be in Rothbury, bar they got no funding at all because Hexham get's most the funding in Northumberland and got forced to close down especially since they changed the X14 timetable so it was impossible to connect the services anymore.
(22 Aug 2022, 10:55 am)Storx imo they should start community transport groups where they engage with the pensioners and setup a selection of routes similar to Spirit Group used to be in Rothbury, bar they got no funding at all because Hexham get's most the funding in Northumberland and got forced to close down especially since they changed the X14 timetable so it was impossible to connect the services anymore.
(22 Aug 2022, 2:10 pm)omnicity4659 In an ideal world, Northumberland County Council along with other councils in the country, would have a fleet of vehicles which are responsive to the community's needs. No need for private companies to profit off unprofitable routes, or for local residents to put their hands even deeper into their pockets for a charity or small operator to run routes that they already pay Northumberland County Council through Council Tax to provide.
The money to provide these services is there. And it's there in abundance. The council isn't sat there looking into their wallets for the last few pennies. It's up to the council and central government to find ways to provide more of the services that they are paid to provide, and to reduce costs through cutting out waste (ie profit).
Spirit Buses was too ambitious in the start, although it focussed on the core Rothbury-Alnwick service, and the loop of Coquetdale with about 40-50% of passengers making local journeys. The Elsdon journeys (population of ~250) were never going to work. The Wallington journeys were a daytrip via bumfuck nowhere (the amount of people who live on the route could be counted on your fingers). And there was 2 buses on a Sunday to Morpeth and back which always looked empty.
(22 Aug 2022, 2:10 pm)omnicity4659 In an ideal world, Northumberland County Council along with other councils in the country, would have a fleet of vehicles which are responsive to the community's needs. No need for private companies to profit off unprofitable routes, or for local residents to put their hands even deeper into their pockets for a charity or small operator to run routes that they already pay Northumberland County Council through Council Tax to provide.
The money to provide these services is there. And it's there in abundance. The council isn't sat there looking into their wallets for the last few pennies. It's up to the council and central government to find ways to provide more of the services that they are paid to provide, and to reduce costs through cutting out waste (ie profit).
Spirit Buses was too ambitious in the start, although it focussed on the core Rothbury-Alnwick service, and the loop of Coquetdale with about 40-50% of passengers making local journeys. The Elsdon journeys (population of ~250) were never going to work. The Wallington journeys were a daytrip via bumfuck nowhere (the amount of people who live on the route could be counted on your fingers). And there was 2 buses on a Sunday to Morpeth and back which always looked empty.
As has been said - Cumbria County Council stopped subsidising any bus services - probably about 5 years ago now IIRC or maybe a little longer, which is one of the reasons why the AD122 stopped going further west to Brampton etc.
A community transport organisation (Border Rambler) used to run a couple if times a week service Gilsland/Greehead/Walltown to Brampton IIRC - but I never saw it in a post covid world - although I'm not up there as often as I used to be.
The timetable and route has been tweaked several times over the years for one reason or another - sometime to match up better with the afternoon connecting train service, and right at the start of the contract to include Yont the Cleugh Caravan park. It is alledged that someone on the park had been repeatedly requesting a service there 'strongly' for quite some time. What happened - shortly after the service started to serve the park the person moved out, and asides a handful (and I do mean a handful) of visitors over the years - it just doesn't get used. The point with a caravan park is that most have a car in the first place, so you're on a hiding to nowhere there. Some other passengers started watching the service and demanding it turn up at all times regardless of the weather, add in the fact that in winter it's not on the gritting route and is very dangerous and icy most of the winter - it gets omitted anyway (one bus got written off there and I'm sure there was at least one other near miss).
It's a hard route physically on the vehicle and staff costs too, for little revenue (although the subsidy is, or was fairly handsome), which probably explains why a smaller operator isn't really interested (and also most smaller operators are already occupied with school contracts).
(22 Aug 2022, 2:05 pm)DeltaMan The issue with Alston is Cumbria County Council.
They do not subsidise ANY conventional bus services. Unless somebody sets up a "Community Transport" style operation then they don't care.
It clearly comes down to money, but there was hardly mention of Alston at all in the counties BSIP submission either.
The other issue is even if there is a pot of money for buses, where do they do go? You could make a case for Carlisle, Penrith, Hexham and Haltwhistle. I'd say Carlisle would offer more bang for thier buck and seek to extend the short 685s from Brampton to Alston.
(22 Aug 2022, 2:05 pm)DeltaMan The issue with Alston is Cumbria County Council.
They do not subsidise ANY conventional bus services. Unless somebody sets up a "Community Transport" style operation then they don't care.
It clearly comes down to money, but there was hardly mention of Alston at all in the counties BSIP submission either.
The other issue is even if there is a pot of money for buses, where do they do go? You could make a case for Carlisle, Penrith, Hexham and Haltwhistle. I'd say Carlisle would offer more bang for thier buck and seek to extend the short 685s from Brampton to Alston.
(22 Aug 2022, 12:44 pm)Adrian I'm not convinced it would be. What kind of resource do you think would be needed to cover an area the size of South (and West, given the similar challenges) Northumberland, vs. the cost of providing 4x Solos or whatever it is?
Tees Flex has I think 11 vehicles, and they're paying Stagecoach just over £1 million a year to operate it.
(22 Aug 2022, 12:44 pm)Adrian I'm not convinced it would be. What kind of resource do you think would be needed to cover an area the size of South (and West, given the similar challenges) Northumberland, vs. the cost of providing 4x Solos or whatever it is?
Tees Flex has I think 11 vehicles, and they're paying Stagecoach just over £1 million a year to operate it.
(22 Aug 2022, 3:13 pm)xpm A community transport organisation (Border Rambler) used to run a couple if times a week service Gilsland/Greehead/Walltown to Brampton IIRC - but I never saw it in a post covid world - although I'm not up there as often as I used to be.
(22 Aug 2022, 3:13 pm)xpm A community transport organisation (Border Rambler) used to run a couple if times a week service Gilsland/Greehead/Walltown to Brampton IIRC - but I never saw it in a post covid world - although I'm not up there as often as I used to be.
(10 Dec 2022, 12:19 pm)Unber43 The 28/29 have had some excellent loading when I've seen them, especially the 29, however I did see them both heading into Newcastle with 2/3 people on them I was walking around Newcastle when I saw them so i don't know how many got off at GatesheadI got the 29 a few weeks ago, it had 3 people from Newcastle but it was quite busy from Gateshead.
(10 Dec 2022, 12:19 pm)Unber43 The 28/29 have had some excellent loading when I've seen them, especially the 29, however I did see them both heading into Newcastle with 2/3 people on them I was walking around Newcastle when I saw them so i don't know how many got off at GatesheadI got the 29 a few weeks ago, it had 3 people from Newcastle but it was quite busy from Gateshead.
