Arriva North East: Service Suggestions

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Storx

4,582

09 Apr 2020, 5:16 pm #941

(08 Apr 2020, 10:30 pm)L469 YVK Final suggestion. Will upload timetables and boards if able to..........

Arriva-X X19
- Will operate hourly between Newbiggin Cresswell Arms and Newcastle via Woodhorn, Wansbeck Hospital then the same route as service X20. Service X19 in conjunction with service X20, will offer a fast service up to every 30 mins during Mon-Sat daytimes

- Mon-Sat evening journeys will operate every 60 minutes until 21:13 ex Newcastle. Later journeys to North Seaton will be provided by service X21E departing Newcastle at 21:55 and 22:55.

- Sunday daytime journeys will run up to every 60 minutes until 18:40 ex Newcastle. Later journeys to North Seaton will be provided by service X21E departing Newcastle at 19:55 and 20:55.

Arriva-X X21 (PVR 12 but interworking with X19 Mon-Sat):
- Change of route between Bedlington and Newcastle with journeys running via the current X22 route instead of Nedderton Village.

- Mon-Sat daytime journeys will terminate at the Cresswell Arms in Newbiggin. Evening & Sunday journeys will continue to serve Seacrest Road.

- Every 15 mins Mon-Sat between Ashington and Newcastle as well as hourly to and from Newbiggin. There will also be increased running time to assist reliability (58 mins ex Ashington and 57 mins ex Newcastle but via Hartlands rather than Nedderton).

- Evening & Sunday journeys every 30 minutes between Ashington and Newcastle as well as hourly to and from Newbiggin. Extra running time on Sundays to improve reliability. Late evening journeys on Sundays will operate hourly.

- Journeys at 21:55 and 22:55 ex Newcastle Mon-Sat will operate as service X21E via Nedderton and continuing to North Seaton South Side after Ashington. Journeys at 19:55 and 20:55 ex Newcastle on Sundays will also operate as service X21E.

Arriva 20 (PVR 5) - In laymans terms, this will be Ashington's version of GNE's '6'. Deliberately not categorising this as an 'Express' although still limited stop between Seaton Burn Holiday Inn and Newcastle.
- Will operate via the current X22 route to Bedlington then the current X21 route to Newcastle.

- Mon-Sat daytime journeys will operate up to every 30 mins.

- Evening journeys will operate up to every 60 minutes until 20:45 ex Newcastle. Later journeys from Newcastle will be provided by service X21E with connections available in Bedlington and through fares available. Short journeys will depart from Bedlington to Ashington at 22:34 and 23:34.

- Sunday daytime journeys will operate up to every 60 minutes until 18:45 ex Newcastle. Later journeys from Newcastle will be provided by service X21E with connections available at Bedlington and through fares available. Short journeys will depart from Bedlington to Ashington at 20:34 and 21:34.
**************************************************************

Mon-Sat PVRs:
- X19/X21 = 12
- 20 = 5

Evening PVRs:
- 35 / X21 = 4
- X21 (Ashington & N.Seaton only) = 2
- 20 = 2 later reducing to 1

Sunday PVRs:
- 35 / X21 = 4
- X21 (Ashington and later N.Seaton only) = 2
- 20 / X19 = 5 (long layover in Ashington with new bus & driver sent out, interworking pattern will be 20 (Ash - Ncl) > X19 (Ncl - Nbig - Ncl) > 20 (Ncl - Ash).

You do realise the X21 and X22 run different bus routes between Bedlington and Ashington...

Anyone who lives on the X22 route between Bedlington and Ashington is getting an extremely raw deal here, reduced to every 30 minutes, no night service at all and a longer journey to put the cherry on the cake. You'd also leave Stakeford and the Green Lane area of Ashington without a bus service at all at night, the X22 is all they've got. They don't want a bus service between Bedlington and Ashington it's Newcastle which they'd be interested in.

Terrible idea no offence not to mention an express X20 and a 20 which aren't linked at all.

Storx

09 Apr 2020, 5:16 pm #941

(08 Apr 2020, 10:30 pm)L469 YVK Final suggestion. Will upload timetables and boards if able to..........

Arriva-X X19
- Will operate hourly between Newbiggin Cresswell Arms and Newcastle via Woodhorn, Wansbeck Hospital then the same route as service X20. Service X19 in conjunction with service X20, will offer a fast service up to every 30 mins during Mon-Sat daytimes

- Mon-Sat evening journeys will operate every 60 minutes until 21:13 ex Newcastle. Later journeys to North Seaton will be provided by service X21E departing Newcastle at 21:55 and 22:55.

- Sunday daytime journeys will run up to every 60 minutes until 18:40 ex Newcastle. Later journeys to North Seaton will be provided by service X21E departing Newcastle at 19:55 and 20:55.

Arriva-X X21 (PVR 12 but interworking with X19 Mon-Sat):
- Change of route between Bedlington and Newcastle with journeys running via the current X22 route instead of Nedderton Village.

- Mon-Sat daytime journeys will terminate at the Cresswell Arms in Newbiggin. Evening & Sunday journeys will continue to serve Seacrest Road.

- Every 15 mins Mon-Sat between Ashington and Newcastle as well as hourly to and from Newbiggin. There will also be increased running time to assist reliability (58 mins ex Ashington and 57 mins ex Newcastle but via Hartlands rather than Nedderton).

- Evening & Sunday journeys every 30 minutes between Ashington and Newcastle as well as hourly to and from Newbiggin. Extra running time on Sundays to improve reliability. Late evening journeys on Sundays will operate hourly.

- Journeys at 21:55 and 22:55 ex Newcastle Mon-Sat will operate as service X21E via Nedderton and continuing to North Seaton South Side after Ashington. Journeys at 19:55 and 20:55 ex Newcastle on Sundays will also operate as service X21E.

Arriva 20 (PVR 5) - In laymans terms, this will be Ashington's version of GNE's '6'. Deliberately not categorising this as an 'Express' although still limited stop between Seaton Burn Holiday Inn and Newcastle.
- Will operate via the current X22 route to Bedlington then the current X21 route to Newcastle.

- Mon-Sat daytime journeys will operate up to every 30 mins.

- Evening journeys will operate up to every 60 minutes until 20:45 ex Newcastle. Later journeys from Newcastle will be provided by service X21E with connections available in Bedlington and through fares available. Short journeys will depart from Bedlington to Ashington at 22:34 and 23:34.

- Sunday daytime journeys will operate up to every 60 minutes until 18:45 ex Newcastle. Later journeys from Newcastle will be provided by service X21E with connections available at Bedlington and through fares available. Short journeys will depart from Bedlington to Ashington at 20:34 and 21:34.
**************************************************************

Mon-Sat PVRs:
- X19/X21 = 12
- 20 = 5

Evening PVRs:
- 35 / X21 = 4
- X21 (Ashington & N.Seaton only) = 2
- 20 = 2 later reducing to 1

Sunday PVRs:
- 35 / X21 = 4
- X21 (Ashington and later N.Seaton only) = 2
- 20 / X19 = 5 (long layover in Ashington with new bus & driver sent out, interworking pattern will be 20 (Ash - Ncl) > X19 (Ncl - Nbig - Ncl) > 20 (Ncl - Ash).

Storx

4,582

09 Apr 2020, 7:49 pm #942

(08 Apr 2020, 10:30 pm)L469 YVK Final suggestion. Will upload timetables and boards if able to..........

Arriva-X X19
- Will operate hourly between Newbiggin Cresswell Arms and Newcastle via Woodhorn, Wansbeck Hospital then the same route as service X20. Service X19 in conjunction with service X20, will offer a fast service up to every 30 mins during Mon-Sat daytimes

- Mon-Sat evening journeys will operate every 60 minutes until 21:13 ex Newcastle. Later journeys to North Seaton will be provided by service X21E departing Newcastle at 21:55 and 22:55.

- Sunday daytime journeys will run up to every 60 minutes until 18:40 ex Newcastle. Later journeys to North Seaton will be provided by service X21E departing Newcastle at 19:55 and 20:55.

Arriva-X X21 (PVR 12 but interworking with X19 Mon-Sat):
- Change of route between Bedlington and Newcastle with journeys running via the current X22 route instead of Nedderton Village.

- Mon-Sat daytime journeys will terminate at the Cresswell Arms in Newbiggin. Evening & Sunday journeys will continue to serve Seacrest Road.

- Every 15 mins Mon-Sat between Ashington and Newcastle as well as hourly to and from Newbiggin. There will also be increased running time to assist reliability (58 mins ex Ashington and 57 mins ex Newcastle but via Hartlands rather than Nedderton).

- Evening & Sunday journeys every 30 minutes between Ashington and Newcastle as well as hourly to and from Newbiggin. Extra running time on Sundays to improve reliability. Late evening journeys on Sundays will operate hourly.

- Journeys at 21:55 and 22:55 ex Newcastle Mon-Sat will operate as service X21E via Nedderton and continuing to North Seaton South Side after Ashington. Journeys at 19:55 and 20:55 ex Newcastle on Sundays will also operate as service X21E.

Arriva 20 (PVR 5) - In laymans terms, this will be Ashington's version of GNE's '6'. Deliberately not categorising this as an 'Express' although still limited stop between Seaton Burn Holiday Inn and Newcastle.
- Will operate via the current X22 route to Bedlington then the current X21 route to Newcastle.

- Mon-Sat daytime journeys will operate up to every 30 mins.

- Evening journeys will operate up to every 60 minutes until 20:45 ex Newcastle. Later journeys from Newcastle will be provided by service X21E with connections available in Bedlington and through fares available. Short journeys will depart from Bedlington to Ashington at 22:34 and 23:34.

- Sunday daytime journeys will operate up to every 60 minutes until 18:45 ex Newcastle. Later journeys from Newcastle will be provided by service X21E with connections available at Bedlington and through fares available. Short journeys will depart from Bedlington to Ashington at 20:34 and 21:34.
**************************************************************

Mon-Sat PVRs:
- X19/X21 = 12
- 20 = 5

Evening PVRs:
- 35 / X21 = 4
- X21 (Ashington & N.Seaton only) = 2
- 20 = 2 later reducing to 1

Sunday PVRs:
- 35 / X21 = 4
- X21 (Ashington and later N.Seaton only) = 2
- 20 / X19 = 5 (long layover in Ashington with new bus & driver sent out, interworking pattern will be 20 (Ash - Ncl) > X19 (Ncl - Nbig - Ncl) > 20 (Ncl - Ash).

The X19 did get me thinking though on how to change the Quorum Express (which mainly isn't express) and make it quicker for someso had the following idea to improve services based around your X19.

New X6 - This will replace parts of the X8, to speed up the X8 from Blyth and be partly your X19 as the following route:

Ashington -> Wansbeck Hospital -> Woodhorn -> Newbiggin -> *Express* -> East Sleekburn -> *Express* -> Bebside -> Shankhouse -> High Pit -> Annitsford -> *Express* -> Quorum -> *Express* -> Newcastle

This will run every 30 mins Mon - Sat and hourly evenings and Sundays. Due to this new service the X21 from Ashington to Newbiggin will no longer run and the 35 will only run hourly from North Seaton to Seacrest Gardens with the Woodburn extension scrapped as it's replaced with the X6 and the 52 peak time extension will no longer run with 1 peak service serving the ministry.

This route will give communities which currently don't have a bus at all East Sleekburn, a new bus from Moorland Avenue to Newcastle and a much quicker service for people from Newbiggin wanting to go to Newcastle and also a quicker service from Ashington which doesn't go around the world. Newbiggin will lose the link to Bedlington however but it's enough to change in Ashington.

X7 - Same as current but skips Burradon and also serves Tillmouth Avenue.

This will run every 30 mins Mon - Sat and hourly evenings and Sundays as now.

These changes will give a quicker service from Seaton Valley to Newcastle and restore Holywell with a bus to Newcastle.

X8 - Same as current to Blyth Asda which then run -> *Express* -> Eastfield -> Manor Walks -> Dudley -> Burradon -> then current route.

This will run every 30 mins Mon - Sat and hourly evenings and Sundays as now.

These changes give a quicker service from Cowpen to Newcastle without having to travel around the world such as Bebside and around High Pit and Annitsford.

Overall the buses will increase the service between Newcastle and Quorum to every 10 minutes and 20 minutes evenings and Sunday with quicker buses from the distant areas. Burradon will decrease from every 15 minutes to every 30 minutes however there's enough buses through there plus the 52 aswell.

The X6 to Cobalt will be renumbered to something else.

The PVR's of the new services will be:
X6: 5 (Single Deckers)
X7/X8/X9: 14 (Same as now - Double / Single Deckers)
X21: -1
35: -1

X6 Route: https://goo.gl/maps/Sy7DisQzfqvFniuK7
X7 Route: https://goo.gl/maps/t18a6UDbZiMnpMKS9
X8 Route: https://goo.gl/maps/hDehHAun2xCq2jAj9

Storx

09 Apr 2020, 7:49 pm #942

(08 Apr 2020, 10:30 pm)L469 YVK Final suggestion. Will upload timetables and boards if able to..........

Arriva-X X19
- Will operate hourly between Newbiggin Cresswell Arms and Newcastle via Woodhorn, Wansbeck Hospital then the same route as service X20. Service X19 in conjunction with service X20, will offer a fast service up to every 30 mins during Mon-Sat daytimes

- Mon-Sat evening journeys will operate every 60 minutes until 21:13 ex Newcastle. Later journeys to North Seaton will be provided by service X21E departing Newcastle at 21:55 and 22:55.

- Sunday daytime journeys will run up to every 60 minutes until 18:40 ex Newcastle. Later journeys to North Seaton will be provided by service X21E departing Newcastle at 19:55 and 20:55.

Arriva-X X21 (PVR 12 but interworking with X19 Mon-Sat):
- Change of route between Bedlington and Newcastle with journeys running via the current X22 route instead of Nedderton Village.

- Mon-Sat daytime journeys will terminate at the Cresswell Arms in Newbiggin. Evening & Sunday journeys will continue to serve Seacrest Road.

- Every 15 mins Mon-Sat between Ashington and Newcastle as well as hourly to and from Newbiggin. There will also be increased running time to assist reliability (58 mins ex Ashington and 57 mins ex Newcastle but via Hartlands rather than Nedderton).

- Evening & Sunday journeys every 30 minutes between Ashington and Newcastle as well as hourly to and from Newbiggin. Extra running time on Sundays to improve reliability. Late evening journeys on Sundays will operate hourly.

- Journeys at 21:55 and 22:55 ex Newcastle Mon-Sat will operate as service X21E via Nedderton and continuing to North Seaton South Side after Ashington. Journeys at 19:55 and 20:55 ex Newcastle on Sundays will also operate as service X21E.

Arriva 20 (PVR 5) - In laymans terms, this will be Ashington's version of GNE's '6'. Deliberately not categorising this as an 'Express' although still limited stop between Seaton Burn Holiday Inn and Newcastle.
- Will operate via the current X22 route to Bedlington then the current X21 route to Newcastle.

- Mon-Sat daytime journeys will operate up to every 30 mins.

- Evening journeys will operate up to every 60 minutes until 20:45 ex Newcastle. Later journeys from Newcastle will be provided by service X21E with connections available in Bedlington and through fares available. Short journeys will depart from Bedlington to Ashington at 22:34 and 23:34.

- Sunday daytime journeys will operate up to every 60 minutes until 18:45 ex Newcastle. Later journeys from Newcastle will be provided by service X21E with connections available at Bedlington and through fares available. Short journeys will depart from Bedlington to Ashington at 20:34 and 21:34.
**************************************************************

Mon-Sat PVRs:
- X19/X21 = 12
- 20 = 5

Evening PVRs:
- 35 / X21 = 4
- X21 (Ashington & N.Seaton only) = 2
- 20 = 2 later reducing to 1

Sunday PVRs:
- 35 / X21 = 4
- X21 (Ashington and later N.Seaton only) = 2
- 20 / X19 = 5 (long layover in Ashington with new bus & driver sent out, interworking pattern will be 20 (Ash - Ncl) > X19 (Ncl - Nbig - Ncl) > 20 (Ncl - Ash).

mb134

4,148

09 Apr 2020, 8:40 pm #943

(09 Apr 2020, 5:16 pm)Storx You do realise the X21 and X22 run different bus routes between Bedlington and Ashington...

Anyone who lives on the X22 route between Bedlington and Ashington is getting an extremely raw deal here, reduced to every 30 minutes, no night service at all and a longer journey to put the cherry on the cake. You'd also leave Stakeford and the Green Lane area of Ashington without a bus service at all at night, the X22 is all they've got. They don't want a bus service between Bedlington and Ashington it's Newcastle which they'd be interested in.

Terrible idea no offence not to mention an express X20 and a 20 which aren't linked at all.

Added to that, I think the current X21/22 setup is pretty solid.

The X22, while quieter between Ashington and Bedlington, being timed before the X21 through Bedlington front street takes majority of passengers there - spreading the load between both services evenly.

The X21 on the current route links all Bedlington schools, as well as giving the expanding west end of Bedlington a frequent bus service.

As well as that, the X20 route probably only demands an hourly (or at most half hourly) frequency. While runs are busy, if you then further increase the frequency then they run the risk of running below a sustainable level.

I think the current Ashington service setup is pretty much spot on, the only possible suggestion I'd make would be for the Morpeth routes:

X14: Current route. All journeys operate to Thropton.

X15: Current route. 2 journeys on a Sunday extend to Berwick.

X16: Axed.

X17: Newcastle - Morpeth - A1 - Alnwick - Seahouses via coast (X18 route) in summer peak (every 2 hours).

X18: Current route and timetable, except 22:18 ex-Alnwick continues to Morpeth.

Rough timing suggestions, during the summer at least, would be:

X18 X15 X14 X17 X18 X15 X14 X17 X18 X15 X14 X17
Newcastle: 10:00, 10:15, 10:30, 10:45, 11:00, 11:15, 11:30, 11:45, 12:00, 12:15, 12:30, 12:45
Morpeth: 10:37, 10:52, 11:07, 11:22, 11:37, 11:52, 12:07, 12:22, 12:37, 12:52, 13:07, 13:22
Alnwick: 11:57, 11:42 12:57, 12:42, 13:12, 13:57, 13:42
Thropton: 11:51 12:51 13:51
Seahouses: 12:58 14:13, 14:58
Berwick: 13:48, 12:37 15:48, 14:37
Berwick: 14:00, 13:00, 16:00, 15:00
Seahouses: 15:00, 14:15, 17:00
Thropton: 12:00 13:00 14:00
Alnwick: 16:05, 14:05, 13:05 13:05 15:25, 18:05, 16:05
Morpeth: 17:30, 15:00, 12:45, 11:25, 14:30, 14:00, 13:45, 16:25, 19:30, 17:00, 14:45, 13:25
Newcastle: 18:10, 15:35, 13:20, 11:50, 15:05, 14:35, 14:20, 17:05, 20:05, 17:40, 15:20, 13:50

X17 timed as such so that short workings from Morpeth to Newcastle also help to relieve pressure from the southbound X18.
All vehicles will interwork at Newcastle, with the exception of the X14. Though later on with different timings X14 vehicles may run onto different services.
Forgot to put in layover time on northbound journeys, so included it in terminus layover.

mb134

09 Apr 2020, 8:40 pm #943

(09 Apr 2020, 5:16 pm)Storx You do realise the X21 and X22 run different bus routes between Bedlington and Ashington...

Anyone who lives on the X22 route between Bedlington and Ashington is getting an extremely raw deal here, reduced to every 30 minutes, no night service at all and a longer journey to put the cherry on the cake. You'd also leave Stakeford and the Green Lane area of Ashington without a bus service at all at night, the X22 is all they've got. They don't want a bus service between Bedlington and Ashington it's Newcastle which they'd be interested in.

Terrible idea no offence not to mention an express X20 and a 20 which aren't linked at all.

omnicity4659

5,589

10 Apr 2020, 1:37 am #944

I think the lockdown is getting to someone's head.

omnicity4659

10 Apr 2020, 1:37 am #944

I think the lockdown is getting to someone's head.

mb134

4,148

10 Apr 2020, 8:07 am #945

(10 Apr 2020, 1:37 am)omnicity4659 I think the lockdown is getting to someone's head.

It's a service suggestion thread. The very point of which is speculative suggestions for services.

If you take issue with any suggestion then discuss it rather than dismissing them, don't just come in with unconstructive sarcasm.

mb134

10 Apr 2020, 8:07 am #945

(10 Apr 2020, 1:37 am)omnicity4659 I think the lockdown is getting to someone's head.

V514DFT

2,241

10 Apr 2020, 12:25 pm #946

I wish they'd re-instate an express along the coast road,but not just a peak time

Kind Regards
Tez

V514DFT

10 Apr 2020, 12:25 pm #946

I wish they'd re-instate an express along the coast road,but not just a peak time

Kind Regards
Tez

L469 YVK

3,549

10 Apr 2020, 3:24 pm #947

Well I've got the passenger times for the following suggestion routes as well as my responses to some of the feedback:

X19 (incl X20 between Wansbeck Hospital and Newcastle)

Arriva-X X19X20 Passenger Times.pdf
Size 19.16 KB / Downloads 14
X21

Arriva-X X21 Passenger Times_.pdf
Size 29.73 KB / Downloads 9
20

Arriva 20 Passenger Times.pdf
Size 22.12 KB / Downloads 21

Storx
"You do realise the X21 and X22 run different bus routes between Bedlington and Ashington..."

Yes and they also run different routes between Bedlington and Newcastle too. Service 20 would cover the X22 route between Ashington and Bedlington then the current X21 route to Newcastle.

"Anyone who lives on the X22 route between Bedlington and Ashington is getting an extremely raw deal here, reduced to every 30 minutes"

The X22 (and former guises) has never warranted a 20 minute service between Ashington & Bedlington. Most of the passengers on the X22 are between Bedlington and Newcastle due to it running 6 minutes before the X21.

"no night service at all and a longer journey to put the cherry on the cake. You'd also leave Stakeford and the Green Lane area of Ashington without a bus service at all at night, the X22 is all they've got."

See attached suggestion timetable for more details. Mainly Sunday evenings would see a reduction in service (and rightly so). Monday to Saturday evening service levels would be mainly unaffected bar requiring a change in Bedlington if travelling from Newcastle after 9.00pm.

MB134
"The X22, while quieter between Ashington and Bedlington, being timed before the X21 through Bedlington front street takes majority of passengers there - spreading the load between both services evenly."

This is the rationale behind the changes. The X19/X20 & X21 would be the 'core' group of services between Ashington and Newcastle. The role of the 20 would be a similar role that GNE's 6 plays in serving the awkward and slow sections of route. The rationale behind numbering the service as the "20" will be to ensure that the X19/X20 & X21 stand out as the 'core' group of routes and reduce confusion. For example, if I wasn't bus savy and was travelling to Sunniside or Stanley from Eldon Square, I wouldn't give the 6 a thought. I would most likely either use the X30/X31.

"As well as that, the X20 route probably only demands an hourly (or at most half hourly) frequency. While runs are busy, if you then further increase the frequency then they run the risk of running below a sustainable level. "

A 30 minute fast service from Ashington and North Seaton to Newcastle would certainly provide an attractive proposition to passengers. The X19 would also provide a quicker and more pleasant journey than the current X21.

"I think the current Ashington service setup is pretty much spot on"

Whist I agree to some extent, the X21 only gets 2 minutes of layover at Newbiggin and unless the service was either terminated at the Cresswell Arms or omits the Cresswell Arms, then not much more time could be added without increasing the PVR of the X21 / X22. The revised X21 will offer the same journey times as current however, more time will be added en-route due to the faster route between Bedlington and Newcastle. Bedlington would also be treated as a major stopping point and layover time has also been added there.

Attached Files

Arriva-X X21 Passenger Times.pdf
Size 29.73 KB / Downloads 4

L469 YVK

10 Apr 2020, 3:24 pm #947

Well I've got the passenger times for the following suggestion routes as well as my responses to some of the feedback:

X19 (incl X20 between Wansbeck Hospital and Newcastle)

Arriva-X X19X20 Passenger Times.pdf
Size 19.16 KB / Downloads 14
X21

Arriva-X X21 Passenger Times_.pdf
Size 29.73 KB / Downloads 9
20

Arriva 20 Passenger Times.pdf
Size 22.12 KB / Downloads 21

Storx
"You do realise the X21 and X22 run different bus routes between Bedlington and Ashington..."

Yes and they also run different routes between Bedlington and Newcastle too. Service 20 would cover the X22 route between Ashington and Bedlington then the current X21 route to Newcastle.

"Anyone who lives on the X22 route between Bedlington and Ashington is getting an extremely raw deal here, reduced to every 30 minutes"

The X22 (and former guises) has never warranted a 20 minute service between Ashington & Bedlington. Most of the passengers on the X22 are between Bedlington and Newcastle due to it running 6 minutes before the X21.

See attached suggestion timetable for more details. Mainly Sunday evenings would see a reduction in service (and rightly so). Monday to Saturday evening service levels would be mainly unaffected bar requiring a change in Bedlington if travelling from Newcastle after 9.00pm.

This is the rationale behind the changes. The X19/X20 & X21 would be the 'core' group of services between Ashington and Newcastle. The role of the 20 would be a similar role that GNE's 6 plays in serving the awkward and slow sections of route. The rationale behind numbering the service as the "20" will be to ensure that the X19/X20 & X21 stand out as the 'core' group of routes and reduce confusion. For example, if I wasn't bus savy and was travelling to Sunniside or Stanley from Eldon Square, I wouldn't give the 6 a thought. I would most likely either use the X30/X31.

A 30 minute fast service from Ashington and North Seaton to Newcastle would certainly provide an attractive proposition to passengers. The X19 would also provide a quicker and more pleasant journey than the current X21.

"I think the current Ashington service setup is pretty much spot on"

Whist I agree to some extent, the X21 only gets 2 minutes of layover at Newbiggin and unless the service was either terminated at the Cresswell Arms or omits the Cresswell Arms, then not much more time could be added without increasing the PVR of the X21 / X22. The revised X21 will offer the same journey times as current however, more time will be added en-route due to the faster route between Bedlington and Newcastle. Bedlington would also be treated as a major stopping point and layover time has also been added there.

Attached Files

Arriva-X X21 Passenger Times.pdf
Size 29.73 KB / Downloads 4

omnicity4659

5,589

10 Apr 2020, 4:22 pm #948

(10 Apr 2020, 8:07 am)mb134 It's a service suggestion thread. The very point of which is speculative suggestions for services.

If you take issue with any suggestion then discuss it rather than dismissing them, don't just come in with unconstructive sarcasm.

It does get boring seeing suggestions that would simply cause problems, though.

omnicity4659

10 Apr 2020, 4:22 pm #948

(10 Apr 2020, 8:07 am)mb134 It's a service suggestion thread. The very point of which is speculative suggestions for services.

If you take issue with any suggestion then discuss it rather than dismissing them, don't just come in with unconstructive sarcasm.

It does get boring seeing suggestions that would simply cause problems, though.

col87

506

18 Apr 2020, 5:44 pm #949

X95 Hartlepool- Scarbrough ( Summer service every Saturday Easter till September and Monday to Friday during spring Half term and Summer Holidays) via Seaton Carew, Billingham A19 and Whitby. Two Journeys a day only.

X 11 Hartlepool - Newcastle via Throston Grange ,Hart Village, Dalton Park, A19, Gateshead

24 X. Running as service 24 route between Hartlepool and Durham then extending non stop to Adventure Valley Summer service only

col87

18 Apr 2020, 5:44 pm #949

L469 YVK

3,549

07 Jun 2020, 12:52 pm #950

Files:

ANE Suggested Changes to 51A 306 308.pdf
Size 616.91 KB / Downloads 16

ANE Suggested Timetable 306 308.pdf
Size 451.53 KB / Downloads 11

ANE Suggested Timetable XMAS NYE Rundown 306 308.pdf
Size 438.57 KB / Downloads 12

ANE Suggested Timetable XMAS NYE Rundown Info.pdf
Size 53.14 KB / Downloads 4

ANE Suggested Timetable 51A.pdf
Size 408.24 KB / Downloads 28

Rationale behind suggested service changes to services 51A / 306 / 308

Current PVR (Pre COVID19) - 21x
306 (Jesmond) - 8x single deck vehicles *odd double deck workings common*
308 (Blyth) - 10x double deck vehicles
51 & 51A (Jesmond) - 3x minibuses

New suggested PVR - 17x
306 & 308 (Jesmond Boards) - 7x double deck vehicles
306 & 308 (Blyth Boards) - 6x double deck vehicles
51 & 51A - 4x minibuses

Current Vehicle Capacities
Single decker (306) - 44 seats
Double decker (308) - 71 seats

Services 306 & 308
- The current combined capacity of services 306 & 308 between Billy Mill and Newcastle is 460 seats per hour.

- With both services reduced to provide an even combined 10 minute frequency between Billy Mill and Newcastle, the capacity will be reduced by 34 seats per hour to 426 seats per hour (based on VDL DB300 Wright Gemini 2 being used). However, it is worth noting:

Services 306 & 308 will operate at more even intervals thus distributing passenger loads more efficiently.
Service 306 will no longer serve Battle Hill Drive, the Marden Estate or Whitley Bay.
A potential slight decrease in the number of 'discretionary' passengers between Station Road and Newcastle due to a frequency reduction in comparison to Go North East. However, this will also be reflected by a reduction of the overall combined PVR in terms of cost.
Marden Estate will benefit from slightly quicker journeys to and from Newcastle.
If 10.9M ADL E400MMC vehicles were ordered later down the line, they would provide a capacity of 462 seats per hour (77 seats per vehicle) thus matching the number of seats per hour provided on a 7-8 minute frequency (15 minutes each service) but with a slightly reduced frequency and a reduced PVR.

Service 51A
- Could be subsidised by Nexus and extension will allow service 359 to be withdrawn.

Service X6
- Withdrawn due to most feeding areas and connections being provided by Stagecoach & Go North East.

Cost benefits
- PVR of full size single deck and double deck vehicles reduced by 27% from 18x to 13x.

- No 'cross depot' dead mileage. Jesmond will only operate dead mileage to and from either Billy Mill or Tymemouth (as they do now). The only dead mileage Blyth depot will operate (as they do now) will be from the last 308 service that operates from Blyth to Billy Mill with the vehicle operating light back to Blyth.

- Evening frequency reduced to better match capacity with demand.

Timetable journey codes
- A = Terminates at Tynemouth Beach Road near the Park Hotel and not Grand Parade
- B = Terminates at Lynn Road near First Vets and not Coast Road / Billy Mill

L469 YVK

07 Jun 2020, 12:52 pm #950

Files:

ANE Suggested Changes to 51A 306 308.pdf
Size 616.91 KB / Downloads 16

ANE Suggested Timetable 306 308.pdf
Size 451.53 KB / Downloads 11

ANE Suggested Timetable XMAS NYE Rundown 306 308.pdf
Size 438.57 KB / Downloads 12

ANE Suggested Timetable XMAS NYE Rundown Info.pdf
Size 53.14 KB / Downloads 4

ANE Suggested Timetable 51A.pdf
Size 408.24 KB / Downloads 28

Services 306 & 308 will operate at more even intervals thus distributing passenger loads more efficiently.
Service 306 will no longer serve Battle Hill Drive, the Marden Estate or Whitley Bay.
A potential slight decrease in the number of 'discretionary' passengers between Station Road and Newcastle due to a frequency reduction in comparison to Go North East. However, this will also be reflected by a reduction of the overall combined PVR in terms of cost.
Marden Estate will benefit from slightly quicker journeys to and from Newcastle.
If 10.9M ADL E400MMC vehicles were ordered later down the line, they would provide a capacity of 462 seats per hour (77 seats per vehicle) thus matching the number of seats per hour provided on a 7-8 minute frequency (15 minutes each service) but with a slightly reduced frequency and a reduced PVR.

Storx

4,582

07 Jun 2020, 1:25 pm #951

(07 Jun 2020, 12:52 pm)L469 YVK Files:

Rationale behind suggested service changes to services 51A / 306 / 308

Current PVR (Pre COVID19) - 21x
306 (Jesmond) - 8x single deck vehicles *odd double deck workings common*
308 (Blyth) - 10x double deck vehicles
51 & 51A (Jesmond) - 3x minibuses

New suggested PVR - 17x
306 & 308 (Jesmond Boards) - 7x double deck vehicles
306 & 308 (Blyth Boards) - 6x double deck vehicles
51 & 51A - 4x minibuses

Current Vehicle Capacities
Single decker (306) - 44 seats
Double decker (308) - 71 seats

Services 306 & 308
- The current combined capacity of services 306 & 308 between Billy Mill and Newcastle is 460 seats per hour.

- With both services reduced to provide an even combined 10 minute frequency between Billy Mill and Newcastle, the capacity will be reduced by 34 seats per hour to 426 seats per hour (based on VDL DB300 Wright Gemini 2 being used). However, it is worth noting:

Services 306 & 308 will operate at more even intervals thus distributing passenger loads more efficiently.

Service 306 will no longer serve Battle Hill Drive, the Marden Estate or Whitley Bay.

A potential slight decrease in the number of 'discretionary' passengers between Station Road and Newcastle due to a frequency reduction in comparison to Go North East. However, this will also be reflected by a reduction of the overall combined PVR in terms of cost.

Marden Estate will benefit from slightly quicker journeys to and from Newcastle.

If 10.9M ADL E400MMC vehicles were ordered later down the line, they would provide a capacity of 462 seats per hour (77 seats per vehicle) thus matching the number of seats per hour provided on a 7-8 minute frequency (15 minutes each service) but with a slightly reduced frequency and a reduced PVR.

Service 51A
- Could be subsidised by Nexus and extension will allow service 359 to be withdrawn.

Service X6
- Withdrawn due to most feeding areas and connections being provided by Stagecoach & Go North East.

Cost benefits
- PVR of full size single deck and double deck vehicles reduced by 27% from 18x to 13x.

- No 'cross depot' dead mileage. Jesmond will only operate dead mileage to and from either Billy Mill or Tymemouth (as they do now). The only dead mileage Blyth depot will operate (as they do now) will be from the last 308 service that operates from Blyth to Billy Mill with the vehicle operating light back to Blyth.

- Evening frequency reduced to better match capacity with demand.

Timetable journey codes
- A = Terminates at Tynemouth Beach Road near the Park Hotel and not Grand Parade
- B = Terminates at Lynn Road near First Vets and not Coast Road / Billy Mill

What's your obsession with cutting services from Tynemouth, Whitley and Blyth (noticed I didn't mention the Coast Road there). The 306/308 has been every 15 minutes forever and nothing, I repeat, nothing has changed anywhere to suddenly make the demand decrease on both the services, if anything it should have gone up with the new large housing estate outside of Blyth. The 309/10 are a different route and have no impact on both services, if anything there should be more demand now due to their decrease.

The 306 doesn't need deckers whereas the 308 does need deckers, what's the point in messing that up and also where are you going to get these 3 extra DB300's from I'm sure hope to god your not planning to take them off us again on the X7/X8/X9 as we badly need them as it is at peak times.

The 306 is the only bus route in large parts of North Shields / Tynemouth similar to the 308 is the quickest way from most parts of Whitley / Blyth unless you live closer to the metro. At the same time your also removing the link from Tynemouth or Whitley to Morrisons at Preston Grange.

The 306/308 isn't there to serve the coast road, it's there to serve beyond Billy Mill.

You've also decreased the 308 from every 30 mins to hourly in the evening which is a big negative.

From a passenger point of view, there are absolutely no benefits to your changes and if Arriva are happy to run it at 15 minutes why would you want to decrease it. It makes no sense.

Also merging the 2 routes together, if you have a problem on the 308 that makes it 25 minutes late at Whitley heading towards town, you've got no way of regulating it until it's been to Newcastle back to Tynemouth back to Newcastle then back to Blyth with a lot of late running, keeping Jesmond with the 306 and Blyth with the 308, you've got a chance to sort that out once it get's to Blyth or Haymarket so there's less late running. I know some on here hate the way that Blyth and Jesmond do that but I think it's one of the best things they do, even known it seriously messes branding up but personally I'd rather have a bus with the wrong brand than the right branded bus 35 minutes late or cutting services short (GNE).

Storx

07 Jun 2020, 1:25 pm #951

(07 Jun 2020, 12:52 pm)L469 YVK Files:

Rationale behind suggested service changes to services 51A / 306 / 308

Current PVR (Pre COVID19) - 21x
306 (Jesmond) - 8x single deck vehicles *odd double deck workings common*
308 (Blyth) - 10x double deck vehicles
51 & 51A (Jesmond) - 3x minibuses

New suggested PVR - 17x
306 & 308 (Jesmond Boards) - 7x double deck vehicles
306 & 308 (Blyth Boards) - 6x double deck vehicles
51 & 51A - 4x minibuses

Current Vehicle Capacities
Single decker (306) - 44 seats
Double decker (308) - 71 seats

Services 306 & 308
- The current combined capacity of services 306 & 308 between Billy Mill and Newcastle is 460 seats per hour.

- With both services reduced to provide an even combined 10 minute frequency between Billy Mill and Newcastle, the capacity will be reduced by 34 seats per hour to 426 seats per hour (based on VDL DB300 Wright Gemini 2 being used). However, it is worth noting:

Services 306 & 308 will operate at more even intervals thus distributing passenger loads more efficiently.

Service 306 will no longer serve Battle Hill Drive, the Marden Estate or Whitley Bay.

A potential slight decrease in the number of 'discretionary' passengers between Station Road and Newcastle due to a frequency reduction in comparison to Go North East. However, this will also be reflected by a reduction of the overall combined PVR in terms of cost.

Marden Estate will benefit from slightly quicker journeys to and from Newcastle.

If 10.9M ADL E400MMC vehicles were ordered later down the line, they would provide a capacity of 462 seats per hour (77 seats per vehicle) thus matching the number of seats per hour provided on a 7-8 minute frequency (15 minutes each service) but with a slightly reduced frequency and a reduced PVR.

Service 51A
- Could be subsidised by Nexus and extension will allow service 359 to be withdrawn.

Service X6
- Withdrawn due to most feeding areas and connections being provided by Stagecoach & Go North East.

Cost benefits
- PVR of full size single deck and double deck vehicles reduced by 27% from 18x to 13x.

- No 'cross depot' dead mileage. Jesmond will only operate dead mileage to and from either Billy Mill or Tymemouth (as they do now). The only dead mileage Blyth depot will operate (as they do now) will be from the last 308 service that operates from Blyth to Billy Mill with the vehicle operating light back to Blyth.

- Evening frequency reduced to better match capacity with demand.

Timetable journey codes
- A = Terminates at Tynemouth Beach Road near the Park Hotel and not Grand Parade
- B = Terminates at Lynn Road near First Vets and not Coast Road / Billy Mill

L469 YVK

3,549

07 Jun 2020, 4:02 pm #952

(07 Jun 2020, 1:25 pm)Storx What's your obsession with cutting services from Tynemouth, Whitley and Blyth (noticed I didn't mention the Coast Road there). The 306/308 has been every 15 minutes forever and nothing, I repeat, nothing has changed anywhere to suddenly make the demand decrease on both the services, if anything it should have gone up with the new large housing estate outside of Blyth. The 309/10 are a different route and have no impact on both services, if anything there should be more demand now due to their decrease.

The reason for higher passenger numbers on service 308 is down to the fact that towards Newcastle between Billy Mill and Willington Square, there is a 5 / 10 gap due to the 306 serving Battle Hill Drive. Therefore, the majority of users end up on service 308. Demand is changing and will most certainly change post Covid19. How much I don't know but I'd imagine a 20 minute service would be more than adequate. And with reference to the new developments in Blyth, most users would use one of the 'X' services to Newcastle over service 308 if in easy reach.

The 306 doesn't need deckers whereas the 308 does need deckers, what's the point in messing that up and also where are you going to get these 3 extra DB300's from I'm sure hope to god your not planning to take them off us again on the X7/X8/X9 as we badly need them as it is at peak times.

Given the fact that PVR reductions will likely happen around the country, I'm sure Arriva would be able to source an extra suitable 3x Geminis or E400s if needed. Wouldn't advocate taking from X7/X8/X9 though. And going forward, Arriva are going to need to invest in new vehicles with the ULEZ coming into force in the near distant future. That would provide an opportunity for Arriva to upgrade services 306 & 308 with 13x new vehicles plus 1x spare at each depot. Furthermore, the 306 becoming double deck would also coincide with a 10 minute frequency along the Coast Road and would also come in handy for capacity towards the Coast as the 306 can get popular if the weather is nice with people heading into North Shields & Tynemouth.

The 306 is the only bus route in large parts of North Shields / Tynemouth similar to the 308 is the quickest way from most parts of Whitley / Blyth unless you live closer to the metro. At the same time your also removing the link from Tynemouth or Whitley to Morrisons at Preston Grange.

Whitley Bay to Preston Grange Morrisons is covered by service 11 (GNE & Nexus). The only reason why the link between Tynemouth and Preston Grange Morrisons was established was due to the fact that the original X6 that served the Marden Estate was a big failure and the only feasible option was to extend service 306 at the time. GNE's 1A & 1B provide most links for the Marden Estate.

The 306/308 isn't there to serve the coast road, it's there to serve beyond Billy Mill.

The Coast Road is a core element of both routes.

You've also decreased the 308 from every 30 mins to hourly in the evening which is a big negative.

Not a negative on most evenings. A 30 minute service ex Newcastle would operate until 2025 Mon-Fri and 1925 Sat-Sun. Whilst the 30 minute frequency is handy, it's not exactly cost efficient most evenings particularly in the times that we're in. Also, departures ex Newcastle when hourly would be @ xx:15 with the last bus of the evening @ xx:20.

From a passenger point of view, there are absolutely no benefits to your changes and if Arriva are happy to run it at 15 minutes why would you want to decrease it. It makes no sense.

From a passenger point of view, going from every 15 minutes to every 20 minutes is hardly a big decrease. Quality of service would also improve with newer vehicles (reduced number required which makes case more viable) and a more consistent service along the Coast Road with buses running at a straight 10 minute even interval most of the time. And from a cost perspective, what is the point of having 5x extra full size vehicles (single or double deck) on the road for the sake of 34x extra seats per hour? If Arriva were to eventually purchase the 10.9M E400MMC, the capacity would be the same as now but with a reduced PVR and significant cost savings.

Also merging the 2 routes together, if you have a problem on the 308 that makes it 25 minutes late at Whitley heading towards town, you've got no way of regulating it until it's been to Newcastle back to Tynemouth back to Newcastle then back to Blyth with a lot of late running, keeping Jesmond with the 306 and Blyth with the 308, you've got a chance to sort that out once it get's to Blyth or Haymarket so there's less late running. I know some on here hate the way that Blyth and Jesmond do that but I think it's one of the best things they do, even known it seriously messes branding up but personally I'd rather have a bus with the wrong brand than the right branded bus 35 minutes late or cutting services short (GNE).

There will always be a risk of that with services interworking. But the 306 would benefit from more running time due to no longer serving Battle Hill Drive as well as up to 8 minutes in Tynemouth and 8 minutes in Newcastle. The 308 would also receive an extra 2 minutes towards Newcastle and an extra 3 minutes towards Blyth with both layovers mostly 8 minutes.

L469 YVK

07 Jun 2020, 4:02 pm #952

(07 Jun 2020, 1:25 pm)Storx What's your obsession with cutting services from Tynemouth, Whitley and Blyth (noticed I didn't mention the Coast Road there). The 306/308 has been every 15 minutes forever and nothing, I repeat, nothing has changed anywhere to suddenly make the demand decrease on both the services, if anything it should have gone up with the new large housing estate outside of Blyth. The 309/10 are a different route and have no impact on both services, if anything there should be more demand now due to their decrease.

The reason for higher passenger numbers on service 308 is down to the fact that towards Newcastle between Billy Mill and Willington Square, there is a 5 / 10 gap due to the 306 serving Battle Hill Drive. Therefore, the majority of users end up on service 308. Demand is changing and will most certainly change post Covid19. How much I don't know but I'd imagine a 20 minute service would be more than adequate. And with reference to the new developments in Blyth, most users would use one of the 'X' services to Newcastle over service 308 if in easy reach.

The 306 doesn't need deckers whereas the 308 does need deckers, what's the point in messing that up and also where are you going to get these 3 extra DB300's from I'm sure hope to god your not planning to take them off us again on the X7/X8/X9 as we badly need them as it is at peak times.

Given the fact that PVR reductions will likely happen around the country, I'm sure Arriva would be able to source an extra suitable 3x Geminis or E400s if needed. Wouldn't advocate taking from X7/X8/X9 though. And going forward, Arriva are going to need to invest in new vehicles with the ULEZ coming into force in the near distant future. That would provide an opportunity for Arriva to upgrade services 306 & 308 with 13x new vehicles plus 1x spare at each depot. Furthermore, the 306 becoming double deck would also coincide with a 10 minute frequency along the Coast Road and would also come in handy for capacity towards the Coast as the 306 can get popular if the weather is nice with people heading into North Shields & Tynemouth.

The 306 is the only bus route in large parts of North Shields / Tynemouth similar to the 308 is the quickest way from most parts of Whitley / Blyth unless you live closer to the metro. At the same time your also removing the link from Tynemouth or Whitley to Morrisons at Preston Grange.

Whitley Bay to Preston Grange Morrisons is covered by service 11 (GNE & Nexus). The only reason why the link between Tynemouth and Preston Grange Morrisons was established was due to the fact that the original X6 that served the Marden Estate was a big failure and the only feasible option was to extend service 306 at the time. GNE's 1A & 1B provide most links for the Marden Estate.

The 306/308 isn't there to serve the coast road, it's there to serve beyond Billy Mill.

The Coast Road is a core element of both routes.

You've also decreased the 308 from every 30 mins to hourly in the evening which is a big negative.

Not a negative on most evenings. A 30 minute service ex Newcastle would operate until 2025 Mon-Fri and 1925 Sat-Sun. Whilst the 30 minute frequency is handy, it's not exactly cost efficient most evenings particularly in the times that we're in. Also, departures ex Newcastle when hourly would be @ xx:15 with the last bus of the evening @ xx:20.

From a passenger point of view, there are absolutely no benefits to your changes and if Arriva are happy to run it at 15 minutes why would you want to decrease it. It makes no sense.

From a passenger point of view, going from every 15 minutes to every 20 minutes is hardly a big decrease. Quality of service would also improve with newer vehicles (reduced number required which makes case more viable) and a more consistent service along the Coast Road with buses running at a straight 10 minute even interval most of the time. And from a cost perspective, what is the point of having 5x extra full size vehicles (single or double deck) on the road for the sake of 34x extra seats per hour? If Arriva were to eventually purchase the 10.9M E400MMC, the capacity would be the same as now but with a reduced PVR and significant cost savings.

Also merging the 2 routes together, if you have a problem on the 308 that makes it 25 minutes late at Whitley heading towards town, you've got no way of regulating it until it's been to Newcastle back to Tynemouth back to Newcastle then back to Blyth with a lot of late running, keeping Jesmond with the 306 and Blyth with the 308, you've got a chance to sort that out once it get's to Blyth or Haymarket so there's less late running. I know some on here hate the way that Blyth and Jesmond do that but I think it's one of the best things they do, even known it seriously messes branding up but personally I'd rather have a bus with the wrong brand than the right branded bus 35 minutes late or cutting services short (GNE).

There will always be a risk of that with services interworking. But the 306 would benefit from more running time due to no longer serving Battle Hill Drive as well as up to 8 minutes in Tynemouth and 8 minutes in Newcastle. The 308 would also receive an extra 2 minutes towards Newcastle and an extra 3 minutes towards Blyth with both layovers mostly 8 minutes.

Storx

4,582

07 Jun 2020, 5:27 pm #953

I understand where your points are coming from but the 308 is Arriva's flagship service or used to be around here anyway; I just don't see the point in reducing it if you don't need too. The Arriva X7 and X9 are just as slow from Blyth to Newcastle (about 10 minutes quicker) but are extremely unreliable (the X7 anyway with South Gosforth).

The majority of customers on the 308 definitely come beyond Billy Mill though, what you have to remember is it's £1.80'ish from Station Road to Newcastle and the majority of passengers have Network One passes whereas the customers beyond Billy Mill will have an Arriva Day Ticket / GoNorthEast (depending on choice). The passengers beyond Billy Mill are worth more than those on the Coast Road itself as you need to try and get the GNE passes from them. Most people just get on whatever bus comes first along the Coast Road, I used to live on it and seen it, and have no loyalty to either Arriva or GNE, so it doesn't really matter whether it's every 10 minutes or every 7.5 minutes along there. If you really want to change the 308, I'd mess around with the Blyth end of the route; possibly send it along Claremont Road and Marine Drive instead of on the coast as you don't need 7 buses an hour between Whitley and Blyth, or try and take it some of North Whitley as the car usage around there is shockingly high but it's no wonder when all you've got is an hourly minibus on the 51 and the W2.

Storx

07 Jun 2020, 5:27 pm #953

L469 YVK

3,549

08 Jun 2020, 5:46 pm #954

(07 Jun 2020, 5:27 pm)Storx I understand where your points are coming from but the 308 is Arriva's flagship service or used to be around here anyway; I just don't see the point in reducing it if you don't need too. The Arriva X7 and X9 are just as slow from Blyth to Newcastle (about 10 minutes quicker) but are extremely unreliable (the X7 anyway with South Gosforth).

The majority of customers on the 308 definitely come beyond Billy Mill though, what you have to remember is it's £1.80'ish from Station Road to Newcastle and the majority of passengers have Network One passes whereas the customers beyond Billy Mill will have an Arriva Day Ticket / GoNorthEast (depending on choice). The passengers beyond Billy Mill are worth more than those on the Coast Road itself as you need to try and get the GNE passes from them. Most people just get on whatever bus comes first along the Coast Road, I used to live on it and seen it, and have no loyalty to either Arriva or GNE, so it doesn't really matter whether it's every 10 minutes or every 7.5 minutes along there. If you really want to change the 308, I'd mess around with the Blyth end of the route; possibly send it along Claremont Road and Marine Drive instead of on the coast as you don't need 7 buses an hour between Whitley and Blyth, or try and take it some of North Whitley as the car usage around there is shockingly high but it's no wonder when all you've got is an hourly minibus on the 51 and the W2.

Whilst the 308 is well used between Blyth and Billy Mill (not so that it's rammed but nevertheless well used), a significant number of customers along the Coast Road also use the service due to the 5/10 gaps too between Billy Mill and Willington Square with the 306. Also, not all passengers between Blyth and Billy Mill solely head into Newcastle. I've seen on some mornings in previous years students alighting at Willington Square for TyneMet College.
Arriva have the advantage of the psychological factor on the 308 compared to GNE's 309 that "it goes up the motorway" in passenger speak although that is being slowly being phased out. This combined with more convenient travel opportunities to some extent including evening departure times still gives the 308 an advantage and would continue to do so even with a frequency change. Furthermore, if the 308 is running using at best either an ex Yorkshire Gemini or whatever Blyth decides to throw out, that is the biggest danger for Arriva in terms of losing passengers compared to a well kept and maintained fleet that GNE operates. A slight reduction in frequency but the opportunity to provide a better service including newer vehicles (less new vehicles required in the order).
A reduction to a 10 minute frequency would allow Arriva to concentrate more on their unique parts of the 306 & 308 and create a solid service on their main high frequency part of both routes between Billy Mill and Station Road. The reduction of frequency to every 10 minutes (20 each) will allow Arriva to reduce costs and the pitfalls of being tit for tat between Station Road and Newcastle as well as better matching capacity to demand.
Although a good point about re-routing north of Whitley Bay, most of them areas can already easily access the 308 & 309 within a short walking distance. Not only that, you'd also have to factor in extra running time too.

The bottom line is that if the PVR saving was only small (i.e less than 2x full size vehicles) for the sake of reducing frequency, then it would make sense to keep the frequency the same as now. But when 5x full size vehicles can be taken out of circulation whilst only slightly reducing levels of service, that will bring big cost savings to Arriva and help them become a more leaner and cleaner outfit going forward. And also taking into account that an extended 51A service could bring in further subsidy from NEXUS due to most of service 359 being replaced (Backworth already served by 54).

L469 YVK

08 Jun 2020, 5:46 pm #954

(07 Jun 2020, 5:27 pm)Storx I understand where your points are coming from but the 308 is Arriva's flagship service or used to be around here anyway; I just don't see the point in reducing it if you don't need too. The Arriva X7 and X9 are just as slow from Blyth to Newcastle (about 10 minutes quicker) but are extremely unreliable (the X7 anyway with South Gosforth).

The majority of customers on the 308 definitely come beyond Billy Mill though, what you have to remember is it's £1.80'ish from Station Road to Newcastle and the majority of passengers have Network One passes whereas the customers beyond Billy Mill will have an Arriva Day Ticket / GoNorthEast (depending on choice). The passengers beyond Billy Mill are worth more than those on the Coast Road itself as you need to try and get the GNE passes from them. Most people just get on whatever bus comes first along the Coast Road, I used to live on it and seen it, and have no loyalty to either Arriva or GNE, so it doesn't really matter whether it's every 10 minutes or every 7.5 minutes along there. If you really want to change the 308, I'd mess around with the Blyth end of the route; possibly send it along Claremont Road and Marine Drive instead of on the coast as you don't need 7 buses an hour between Whitley and Blyth, or try and take it some of North Whitley as the car usage around there is shockingly high but it's no wonder when all you've got is an hourly minibus on the 51 and the W2.

Whilst the 308 is well used between Blyth and Billy Mill (not so that it's rammed but nevertheless well used), a significant number of customers along the Coast Road also use the service due to the 5/10 gaps too between Billy Mill and Willington Square with the 306. Also, not all passengers between Blyth and Billy Mill solely head into Newcastle. I've seen on some mornings in previous years students alighting at Willington Square for TyneMet College.
Arriva have the advantage of the psychological factor on the 308 compared to GNE's 309 that "it goes up the motorway" in passenger speak although that is being slowly being phased out. This combined with more convenient travel opportunities to some extent including evening departure times still gives the 308 an advantage and would continue to do so even with a frequency change. Furthermore, if the 308 is running using at best either an ex Yorkshire Gemini or whatever Blyth decides to throw out, that is the biggest danger for Arriva in terms of losing passengers compared to a well kept and maintained fleet that GNE operates. A slight reduction in frequency but the opportunity to provide a better service including newer vehicles (less new vehicles required in the order).
A reduction to a 10 minute frequency would allow Arriva to concentrate more on their unique parts of the 306 & 308 and create a solid service on their main high frequency part of both routes between Billy Mill and Station Road. The reduction of frequency to every 10 minutes (20 each) will allow Arriva to reduce costs and the pitfalls of being tit for tat between Station Road and Newcastle as well as better matching capacity to demand.
Although a good point about re-routing north of Whitley Bay, most of them areas can already easily access the 308 & 309 within a short walking distance. Not only that, you'd also have to factor in extra running time too.

Ryland

465

22 Jul 2020, 10:10 pm #955

Giving redcar recent changes I have a few suggestions.
X3/a to resort back via the coast road then via redcar east estate (current 81 route) then normal route to Middlesbrough
81 to continue to serve marske estate. Via redcar road one then onto redcar lane via east hault.
62 resorting to terminating back at new marske. Via ings farm and redcar lane.
64 to terminate at Redcar clock (stop opposite the standard)

62a to serve marske estate (Sunday's only).

Ryland

22 Jul 2020, 10:10 pm #955

peter

993

22 Jul 2020, 11:17 pm #956

(22 Jul 2020, 10:10 pm)Ryland Giving redcar recent changes I have a few suggestions.
X3/a to resort back via the coast road then via redcar east estate (current 81 route) then normal route to Middlesbrough
81 to continue to serve marske estate. Via redcar road one then onto redcar lane via east hault.
62 resorting to terminating back at new marske. Via ings farm and redcar lane.
64 to terminate at Redcar clock (stop opposite the standard)

62a to serve marske estate (Sunday's only).

Can't see any of these happening tbh, whole point was to give redcar road and redcar lane (and Dormanstown) a faster service to Middlesbrough can't see that being taken away. Similarly passengers of the 62 from New Markse would be faced with longer journey times to Redcar if it was restored to the previous route but still operated via Ings Farm. 64 isn't realistically gonna be re-extended to Redcar, it seemed to me the whole point of the changes was curtailing the 64 at Grangetown as it saved about 5 buses from the PVR, using changes to the remaining services to replace it, in terms of both route and vehicles (two extra buses for X3/X3A and 62 came from 63 and 81).

peter

22 Jul 2020, 11:17 pm #956

(22 Jul 2020, 10:10 pm)Ryland Giving redcar recent changes I have a few suggestions.
X3/a to resort back via the coast road then via redcar east estate (current 81 route) then normal route to Middlesbrough
81 to continue to serve marske estate. Via redcar road one then onto redcar lane via east hault.
62 resorting to terminating back at new marske. Via ings farm and redcar lane.
64 to terminate at Redcar clock (stop opposite the standard)

62a to serve marske estate (Sunday's only).

L469 YVK

3,549

04 Aug 2020, 8:04 am #957

If Arriva purchase new vehicles for either the X14/X15/X18/X20 or X93, they should definitely consider fitting bike racks like what GNE have done for their Derwentside & Hexham orders.

Lots of popular places to cycle along the Northumberland & North Yorkshire Coastlines!

L469 YVK

04 Aug 2020, 8:04 am #957

col87

506

05 Aug 2020, 4:10 pm #958

Have often wondered why the 63 missed Kirkleatham out it would add what 5 minutes to the the journey time at most. Be handy for people wanting to go to Kirkleatham hall as well.

col87

05 Aug 2020, 4:10 pm #958

Have often wondered why the 63 missed Kirkleatham out it would add what 5 minutes to the the journey time at most. Be handy for people wanting to go to Kirkleatham hall as well.

RobinHood

638

05 Aug 2020, 6:26 pm #959

(05 Aug 2020, 4:10 pm)col87 Have often wondered why the 63 missed Kirkleatham out it would add what 5 minutes to the the journey time at most. Be handy for people wanting to go to Kirkleatham hall as well.

Five minutes would still require another vehicle into the cycle to accommodate.

I suspect it is very unlikely that passenger numbers from Kirkleatham alone could cover the cost of that extra bus needed to serve it.

Fairly obvious answer really.

RobinHood

05 Aug 2020, 6:26 pm #959

(05 Aug 2020, 4:10 pm)col87 Have often wondered why the 63 missed Kirkleatham out it would add what 5 minutes to the the journey time at most. Be handy for people wanting to go to Kirkleatham hall as well.

tyresmoke

5,318

05 Aug 2020, 7:38 pm #960

(05 Aug 2020, 6:26 pm)RobinHood Five minutes would still require another vehicle into the cycle to accommodate.

I suspect it is very unlikely that passenger numbers from Kirkleatham alone could cover the cost of that extra bus needed to serve it.

Fairly obvious answer really.

The 81 goes round the village I believe, which probably more than covers the requirement from Redcar.

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tyresmoke

05 Aug 2020, 7:38 pm #960

(05 Aug 2020, 6:26 pm)RobinHood Five minutes would still require another vehicle into the cycle to accommodate.

I suspect it is very unlikely that passenger numbers from Kirkleatham alone could cover the cost of that extra bus needed to serve it.

Fairly obvious answer really.

The 81 goes round the village I believe, which probably more than covers the requirement from Redcar.

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Service Manager, Coatham Connect

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