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Arriva North East: Service Suggestions

Arriva North East: Service Suggestions

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mb134



4,145
23 Apr 2021, 10:43 pm #1,041
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(23 Apr 2021, 9:31 pm)L469 YVK Service X19 (Interworking with X21)
- New hourly service Mondays to Saturdays including Sunday daytimes.
- Monday to Saturday evening service.
- Would operate from Newbiggin Cresswell Arms via Woodhorn then same route as service X20 to Newcastle.
- Up to half hourly combined frequency with X20 between Woodhorn and Newcastle.

If you saw the loads on the X20 at the moment the last thing you'd be suggesting would be another direct service.
mb134
23 Apr 2021, 10:43 pm #1,041

(23 Apr 2021, 9:31 pm)L469 YVK Service X19 (Interworking with X21)
- New hourly service Mondays to Saturdays including Sunday daytimes.
- Monday to Saturday evening service.
- Would operate from Newbiggin Cresswell Arms via Woodhorn then same route as service X20 to Newcastle.
- Up to half hourly combined frequency with X20 between Woodhorn and Newcastle.

If you saw the loads on the X20 at the moment the last thing you'd be suggesting would be another direct service.

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L469 YVK



3,549
23 Apr 2021, 10:47 pm #1,042
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(23 Apr 2021, 10:15 pm)Storx I know what your trying to do here but there's a lot more to the timetables that you've missed here, there's been quite a bit of work been put into the current timetables and they're actually quite clever if you look into them more (something other bus companies really should learn).

Currently it's

Every 15 Minutes between Ashington and Newbiggin with the 35/X21
Every 15 Minutes between Ashington and Bedlington Station with the 1/X21
Every 15 Minutes between Bedlington Station and Bedlington with 2/X21
Every 15 Minutes between Bedlington Station and Blyth with the 1/2
Every 30 Minutes between Amble and Newcastle with the X18/X20 (for reference).
Nothing with the 2/57/X22 between Bedlington and Guide Post but somewhere has to fail.

With your timetables you've made the service between Newbiggin and Ashington worse (Every 20 mins instead of 15 mins) and complete buggered up the 1/2 connections and when you change one you end up with a chain reaction with the next going off.
X18 & X20 would still coordinate. X19 would just be an additional service covering the Woodhorn to Newcastle part alongside the X20.

I get what you mean about the common frequencies with the locals but, the timetable is mostly geared at providing an 'efficient' service whilst creating new and improved links as well as giving the BTRL some healthy competition (X19 & X20). The X19 perfectly coordinates with the X20.

As for the Newbiggin > Ashington part, the 35 is more than enough to have that part covered with other journeys on the X19 & X21 and them also serving Wansbeck Hospital.
(23 Apr 2021, 10:43 pm)mb134 If you saw the loads on the X20 at the moment the last thing you'd be suggesting would be another direct service.
It goes back to dillution though. GNE had that problem in Derwentside but have pretty much cracked it and got a stable group of 'X' services covering Consett / Stanley and Sunniside to Newcastle.

The prospect of a 30 minute 'fast' Ashington to Newcastle service would be very tempting for passengers. Plus the clear journey time advantage from Newbiggin over the X21, it would be a win-win.
Edited 23 Apr 2021, 10:51 pm by L469 YVK.
L469 YVK
23 Apr 2021, 10:47 pm #1,042

(23 Apr 2021, 10:15 pm)Storx I know what your trying to do here but there's a lot more to the timetables that you've missed here, there's been quite a bit of work been put into the current timetables and they're actually quite clever if you look into them more (something other bus companies really should learn).

Currently it's

Every 15 Minutes between Ashington and Newbiggin with the 35/X21
Every 15 Minutes between Ashington and Bedlington Station with the 1/X21
Every 15 Minutes between Bedlington Station and Bedlington with 2/X21
Every 15 Minutes between Bedlington Station and Blyth with the 1/2
Every 30 Minutes between Amble and Newcastle with the X18/X20 (for reference).
Nothing with the 2/57/X22 between Bedlington and Guide Post but somewhere has to fail.

With your timetables you've made the service between Newbiggin and Ashington worse (Every 20 mins instead of 15 mins) and complete buggered up the 1/2 connections and when you change one you end up with a chain reaction with the next going off.
X18 & X20 would still coordinate. X19 would just be an additional service covering the Woodhorn to Newcastle part alongside the X20.

I get what you mean about the common frequencies with the locals but, the timetable is mostly geared at providing an 'efficient' service whilst creating new and improved links as well as giving the BTRL some healthy competition (X19 & X20). The X19 perfectly coordinates with the X20.

As for the Newbiggin > Ashington part, the 35 is more than enough to have that part covered with other journeys on the X19 & X21 and them also serving Wansbeck Hospital.
(23 Apr 2021, 10:43 pm)mb134 If you saw the loads on the X20 at the moment the last thing you'd be suggesting would be another direct service.
It goes back to dillution though. GNE had that problem in Derwentside but have pretty much cracked it and got a stable group of 'X' services covering Consett / Stanley and Sunniside to Newcastle.

The prospect of a 30 minute 'fast' Ashington to Newcastle service would be very tempting for passengers. Plus the clear journey time advantage from Newbiggin over the X21, it would be a win-win.

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mb134



4,145
23 Apr 2021, 11:12 pm #1,043
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(23 Apr 2021, 10:47 pm)L469 YVK It goes back to dillution though. GNE had that problem in Derwentside but have pretty much cracked it and got a stable group of 'X' services covering Consett / Stanley and Sunniside to Newcastle.

The prospect of a 30 minute 'fast' Ashington to Newcastle service would be very tempting for passengers. Plus the clear journey time advantage from Newbiggin over the X21, it would be a win-win.

If the X20s were running around with even 20 folk on in the peaks at the moment I'd see an argument for it, the reality is that they're running around with much less than that. Most of the custom is reportedly between Alnwick at Ashington at the moment, with the pre-Covid demand between Ashington and Newcastle simply not being there. A half hourly express between Ashington and Newcastle would haemorrhage money, not to mention it would kill the local links provided by the X21.
mb134
23 Apr 2021, 11:12 pm #1,043

(23 Apr 2021, 10:47 pm)L469 YVK It goes back to dillution though. GNE had that problem in Derwentside but have pretty much cracked it and got a stable group of 'X' services covering Consett / Stanley and Sunniside to Newcastle.

The prospect of a 30 minute 'fast' Ashington to Newcastle service would be very tempting for passengers. Plus the clear journey time advantage from Newbiggin over the X21, it would be a win-win.

If the X20s were running around with even 20 folk on in the peaks at the moment I'd see an argument for it, the reality is that they're running around with much less than that. Most of the custom is reportedly between Alnwick at Ashington at the moment, with the pre-Covid demand between Ashington and Newcastle simply not being there. A half hourly express between Ashington and Newcastle would haemorrhage money, not to mention it would kill the local links provided by the X21.

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Storx



4,571
23 Apr 2021, 11:13 pm #1,044
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(23 Apr 2021, 10:47 pm)L469 YVK X18 & X20 would still coordinate. X19 would just be an additional service covering the Woodhorn to Newcastle part alongside the X20.

I get what you mean about the common frequencies with the locals but, the timetable is mostly geared at providing an 'efficient' service whilst creating new and improved links as well as giving the BTRL some healthy competition (X19 & X20). The X19 perfectly coordinates with the X20.

As for the Newbiggin > Ashington part, the 35 is more than enough to have that part covered with other journeys on the X19 & X21 and them also serving Wansbeck Hospital.
It goes back to dillution though. GNE had that problem in Derwentside but have pretty much cracked it and got a stable group of 'X' services covering Consett / Stanley and Sunniside to Newcastle.

The prospect of a 30 minute 'fast' Ashington to Newcastle service would be very tempting for passengers. Plus the clear journey time advantage from Newbiggin over the X21, it would be a win-win.

The thing is though when the BTRL comes in the local services are going to be the key services imo even if it ends up them using the 1 to Bedlington Station to get the train to town.

Btw for your X19 I'd be tempted to reverse the Newbiggin bit and go straight to Newbiggin skipping Ashington possibly extending to Cresswall with the time savings. Once the trains come in, it's one place that won't change.

Oh and a little suggestion I know you always wanted to get arid of the X8 in it's current form, one idea could be to turn the X19/X20 into what was the X25/X26 south of Blyth ASDA it shouldn't add too much time 5 mins max really and kills 2 birds with one stone. The X20 is dead most the time tbh.
Storx
23 Apr 2021, 11:13 pm #1,044

(23 Apr 2021, 10:47 pm)L469 YVK X18 & X20 would still coordinate. X19 would just be an additional service covering the Woodhorn to Newcastle part alongside the X20.

I get what you mean about the common frequencies with the locals but, the timetable is mostly geared at providing an 'efficient' service whilst creating new and improved links as well as giving the BTRL some healthy competition (X19 & X20). The X19 perfectly coordinates with the X20.

As for the Newbiggin > Ashington part, the 35 is more than enough to have that part covered with other journeys on the X19 & X21 and them also serving Wansbeck Hospital.
It goes back to dillution though. GNE had that problem in Derwentside but have pretty much cracked it and got a stable group of 'X' services covering Consett / Stanley and Sunniside to Newcastle.

The prospect of a 30 minute 'fast' Ashington to Newcastle service would be very tempting for passengers. Plus the clear journey time advantage from Newbiggin over the X21, it would be a win-win.

The thing is though when the BTRL comes in the local services are going to be the key services imo even if it ends up them using the 1 to Bedlington Station to get the train to town.

Btw for your X19 I'd be tempted to reverse the Newbiggin bit and go straight to Newbiggin skipping Ashington possibly extending to Cresswall with the time savings. Once the trains come in, it's one place that won't change.

Oh and a little suggestion I know you always wanted to get arid of the X8 in it's current form, one idea could be to turn the X19/X20 into what was the X25/X26 south of Blyth ASDA it shouldn't add too much time 5 mins max really and kills 2 birds with one stone. The X20 is dead most the time tbh.

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L469 YVK



3,549
24 Apr 2021, 10:47 am #1,045
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I've just checked the suggested times and cross referenced with the 1 & 2. Now to be fair, I didn't take the 1 & 2 into account with the X21.

All of the combined corridors although not 100% perfect, do give some reasonable headway during Mondays to Saturdays.

Evenings & Sundays, I can see the problem with the 1 & X21 between Ashington & Bedlington Station but...........the X21 is the stronger service out of the X21 & X22. Therefore, it's been timed to arrive in Newcastle between xx:30 & xx:00 (xx:37). And then leaving Newcastle between xx:00 & xx:30 (xx:15).
L469 YVK
24 Apr 2021, 10:47 am #1,045

I've just checked the suggested times and cross referenced with the 1 & 2. Now to be fair, I didn't take the 1 & 2 into account with the X21.

All of the combined corridors although not 100% perfect, do give some reasonable headway during Mondays to Saturdays.

Evenings & Sundays, I can see the problem with the 1 & X21 between Ashington & Bedlington Station but...........the X21 is the stronger service out of the X21 & X22. Therefore, it's been timed to arrive in Newcastle between xx:30 & xx:00 (xx:37). And then leaving Newcastle between xx:00 & xx:30 (xx:15).

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L469 YVK



3,549
25 Apr 2021, 9:32 am #1,046
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https://www.facebook.com/124685800957368...sn=scwspmo

Look at one of the comments! Clearly demand for a faster Newbiggin to Newcastle bus.

1hr 12 mins MAX (X19) vs 1hr 29 mins (X21) - AM to NCL
1hr 7 mins (X19) vs 1 hr 19 mins (X21) - PM from NCL

Arriva could easily compete & co-exist well with the trains if they put some effort into marketing & doing things properly.

And in response to various previous comments about GNE "salami slicing" their routes, Arriva have cut the PVR of the X21/X22/35 by 8x vehicles with no tangible benefits to the customer. The X19/X21/X22 & 35 would reduce the PVR by 3x (with other service changes reducing the overall PVR further) but actually offer improvements by maintaining a 20 minute service on the 35 AND doubling the number of "fast" Ashington to Newcastle services.
L469 YVK
25 Apr 2021, 9:32 am #1,046

https://www.facebook.com/124685800957368...sn=scwspmo

Look at one of the comments! Clearly demand for a faster Newbiggin to Newcastle bus.

1hr 12 mins MAX (X19) vs 1hr 29 mins (X21) - AM to NCL
1hr 7 mins (X19) vs 1 hr 19 mins (X21) - PM from NCL

Arriva could easily compete & co-exist well with the trains if they put some effort into marketing & doing things properly.

And in response to various previous comments about GNE "salami slicing" their routes, Arriva have cut the PVR of the X21/X22/35 by 8x vehicles with no tangible benefits to the customer. The X19/X21/X22 & 35 would reduce the PVR by 3x (with other service changes reducing the overall PVR further) but actually offer improvements by maintaining a 20 minute service on the 35 AND doubling the number of "fast" Ashington to Newcastle services.

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Storx



4,571
25 Apr 2021, 12:33 pm #1,047
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(25 Apr 2021, 9:32 am)L469 YVK https://www.facebook.com/124685800957368...sn=scwspmo

Look at one of the comments! Clearly demand for a faster Newbiggin to Newcastle bus.

1hr 12 mins MAX (X19) vs 1hr 29 mins (X21) - AM to NCL
1hr 7 mins (X19) vs 1 hr 19 mins (X21) - PM from NCL

Arriva could easily compete & co-exist well with the trains if they put some effort into marketing & doing things properly.

And in response to various previous comments about GNE "salami slicing" their routes, Arriva have cut the PVR of the X21/X22/35 by 8x vehicles with no tangible benefits to the customer. The X19/X21/X22 & 35 would reduce the PVR by 3x (with other service changes reducing the overall PVR further) but actually offer improvements by maintaining a 20 minute service on the 35 AND doubling the number of "fast" Ashington to Newcastle services.

Has it actually been confirmed that the X21/X22 changes are permanent. They're still marked down as temporary timetables atm. I wouldn't be too surprised to see them restored in the future once school extras are scrapped tbf as they were always quite busy. Right now though there just simply isn't anything to actually run the buses as bigger buses are being used on school extras especially at Blyth and Durham.
Storx
25 Apr 2021, 12:33 pm #1,047

(25 Apr 2021, 9:32 am)L469 YVK https://www.facebook.com/124685800957368...sn=scwspmo

Look at one of the comments! Clearly demand for a faster Newbiggin to Newcastle bus.

1hr 12 mins MAX (X19) vs 1hr 29 mins (X21) - AM to NCL
1hr 7 mins (X19) vs 1 hr 19 mins (X21) - PM from NCL

Arriva could easily compete & co-exist well with the trains if they put some effort into marketing & doing things properly.

And in response to various previous comments about GNE "salami slicing" their routes, Arriva have cut the PVR of the X21/X22/35 by 8x vehicles with no tangible benefits to the customer. The X19/X21/X22 & 35 would reduce the PVR by 3x (with other service changes reducing the overall PVR further) but actually offer improvements by maintaining a 20 minute service on the 35 AND doubling the number of "fast" Ashington to Newcastle services.

Has it actually been confirmed that the X21/X22 changes are permanent. They're still marked down as temporary timetables atm. I wouldn't be too surprised to see them restored in the future once school extras are scrapped tbf as they were always quite busy. Right now though there just simply isn't anything to actually run the buses as bigger buses are being used on school extras especially at Blyth and Durham.

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Cobalt271

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25 Apr 2021, 1:16 pm #1,048
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(25 Apr 2021, 9:32 am)L469 YVK https://www.facebook.com/124685800957368...sn=scwspmo

Look at one of the comments! Clearly demand for a faster Newbiggin to Newcastle bus.

1hr 12 mins MAX (X19) vs 1hr 29 mins (X21) - AM to NCL
1hr 7 mins (X19) vs 1 hr 19 mins (X21) - PM from NCL

Arriva could easily compete & co-exist well with the trains if they put some effort into marketing & doing things properly.

One comment in regard to the Bus Service between Newbiggin & Newcastle suddenly means there's a huge demand for a faster Bus does it? Also the PVR reduction for Ashington's Sapphire services are temporary and will return in time.
Check out my Flickr - www.flickr.com/cobalt512
Cobalt271
25 Apr 2021, 1:16 pm #1,048

(25 Apr 2021, 9:32 am)L469 YVK https://www.facebook.com/124685800957368...sn=scwspmo

Look at one of the comments! Clearly demand for a faster Newbiggin to Newcastle bus.

1hr 12 mins MAX (X19) vs 1hr 29 mins (X21) - AM to NCL
1hr 7 mins (X19) vs 1 hr 19 mins (X21) - PM from NCL

Arriva could easily compete & co-exist well with the trains if they put some effort into marketing & doing things properly.

One comment in regard to the Bus Service between Newbiggin & Newcastle suddenly means there's a huge demand for a faster Bus does it? Also the PVR reduction for Ashington's Sapphire services are temporary and will return in time.

Check out my Flickr - www.flickr.com/cobalt512

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mb134



4,145
25 Apr 2021, 1:54 pm #1,049
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(25 Apr 2021, 9:32 am)L469 YVK https://www.facebook.com/124685800957368...sn=scwspmo

Look at one of the comments! Clearly demand for a faster Newbiggin to Newcastle bus.

1hr 12 mins MAX (X19) vs 1hr 29 mins (X21) - AM to NCL
1hr 7 mins (X19) vs 1 hr 19 mins (X21) - PM from NCL

Arriva could easily compete & co-exist well with the trains if they put some effort into marketing & doing things properly.

And in response to various previous comments about GNE "salami slicing" their routes, Arriva have cut the PVR of the X21/X22/35 by 8x vehicles with no tangible benefits to the customer. The X19/X21/X22 & 35 would reduce the PVR by 3x (with other service changes reducing the overall PVR further) but actually offer improvements by maintaining a 20 minute service on the 35 AND doubling the number of "fast" Ashington to Newcastle services.

One comment does not equal demand. If demand existed, the previous attempt with the X20 a few years back would have worked.

Also, you state ANE have cut the PVR by 8 vehicles. That's incorrect, it's 5 vehicles across those routes but given current social distancing dupes and the dedicated X30 board only really a reduction of 2 in reality. As Cobalt271 states, that would be expected to revert to normal once dupes are no longer required.
mb134
25 Apr 2021, 1:54 pm #1,049

(25 Apr 2021, 9:32 am)L469 YVK https://www.facebook.com/124685800957368...sn=scwspmo

Look at one of the comments! Clearly demand for a faster Newbiggin to Newcastle bus.

1hr 12 mins MAX (X19) vs 1hr 29 mins (X21) - AM to NCL
1hr 7 mins (X19) vs 1 hr 19 mins (X21) - PM from NCL

Arriva could easily compete & co-exist well with the trains if they put some effort into marketing & doing things properly.

And in response to various previous comments about GNE "salami slicing" their routes, Arriva have cut the PVR of the X21/X22/35 by 8x vehicles with no tangible benefits to the customer. The X19/X21/X22 & 35 would reduce the PVR by 3x (with other service changes reducing the overall PVR further) but actually offer improvements by maintaining a 20 minute service on the 35 AND doubling the number of "fast" Ashington to Newcastle services.

One comment does not equal demand. If demand existed, the previous attempt with the X20 a few years back would have worked.

Also, you state ANE have cut the PVR by 8 vehicles. That's incorrect, it's 5 vehicles across those routes but given current social distancing dupes and the dedicated X30 board only really a reduction of 2 in reality. As Cobalt271 states, that would be expected to revert to normal once dupes are no longer required.

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L469 YVK



3,549
25 Apr 2021, 2:44 pm #1,050
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(25 Apr 2021, 1:54 pm)mb134 One comment does not equal demand. If demand existed, the previous attempt with the X20 a few years back would have worked.

Also, you state ANE have cut the PVR by 8 vehicles. That's incorrect, it's 5 vehicles across those routes but given current social distancing dupes and the dedicated X30 board only really a reduction of 2 
Pre March 2020:
- X21/X22 = 15x
- 35 = 5x
Total = 20x

Current:
- 35/X21/X22 = 14x
Total = 14x

Fair enough, I got it wrong but 6x vehicles is still a hefty number. If the changes are temporary, fair enough.

The 'old' X20 didn't work for the simple reason that the X21 was just 'easier' considering it was relatively quick back then and ran every 20 minutes. That's changed now it has some parity & commonality with the X22. The old X20 would likely have been unreliable given the fact it was also standalone.

Introducing the X19 and cannibalising the section of the X21 (with extra journeys) between Ashington & Newbiggin would make sense.
L469 YVK
25 Apr 2021, 2:44 pm #1,050

(25 Apr 2021, 1:54 pm)mb134 One comment does not equal demand. If demand existed, the previous attempt with the X20 a few years back would have worked.

Also, you state ANE have cut the PVR by 8 vehicles. That's incorrect, it's 5 vehicles across those routes but given current social distancing dupes and the dedicated X30 board only really a reduction of 2 
Pre March 2020:
- X21/X22 = 15x
- 35 = 5x
Total = 20x

Current:
- 35/X21/X22 = 14x
Total = 14x

Fair enough, I got it wrong but 6x vehicles is still a hefty number. If the changes are temporary, fair enough.

The 'old' X20 didn't work for the simple reason that the X21 was just 'easier' considering it was relatively quick back then and ran every 20 minutes. That's changed now it has some parity & commonality with the X22. The old X20 would likely have been unreliable given the fact it was also standalone.

Introducing the X19 and cannibalising the section of the X21 (with extra journeys) between Ashington & Newbiggin would make sense.

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L469 YVK



3,549
25 Apr 2021, 3:35 pm #1,051
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Even if Arriva return back to a PVR of 20x though, a PVR of 17x (INCLUDING the X19) will be far more efficient and offer an even better service.

- Faster buses from Newbiggin including Woodhorn to Newcastle.

- 2x fast services per hour between Ashington and Newcastle.

- Improved frequency in North Seaton.

- Only a reduction of 1x bus per hour between Ashington and Newcastle (all routes).

- Improved reliability on the 35.

- 'Efficient' interworking patterns. First X21/X22 round trips on Mondays to Saturdays allocated single deckers as well as evening & Sunday X19 journeys.

- No great 'reduction' in service for Stakeford & Bedlington considering the 6/14 gaps. Gaps would be 12/18.

- Increased evening & Sunday frequency between Ashington & Morpeth whilst only increasing the evening & Sunday PVR by 1x for the 35/X21/X22 (X19 an additional 2x).

- Later last journeys fron Newcastle .
L469 YVK
25 Apr 2021, 3:35 pm #1,051

Even if Arriva return back to a PVR of 20x though, a PVR of 17x (INCLUDING the X19) will be far more efficient and offer an even better service.

- Faster buses from Newbiggin including Woodhorn to Newcastle.

- 2x fast services per hour between Ashington and Newcastle.

- Improved frequency in North Seaton.

- Only a reduction of 1x bus per hour between Ashington and Newcastle (all routes).

- Improved reliability on the 35.

- 'Efficient' interworking patterns. First X21/X22 round trips on Mondays to Saturdays allocated single deckers as well as evening & Sunday X19 journeys.

- No great 'reduction' in service for Stakeford & Bedlington considering the 6/14 gaps. Gaps would be 12/18.

- Increased evening & Sunday frequency between Ashington & Morpeth whilst only increasing the evening & Sunday PVR by 1x for the 35/X21/X22 (X19 an additional 2x).

- Later last journeys fron Newcastle .

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RobinHood



637
25 Apr 2021, 3:37 pm #1,052
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(25 Apr 2021, 2:44 pm)L469 YVK Pre March 2020:
- X21/X22 = 15x
- 35 = 5x
Total = 20x

Current:
- 35/X21/X22 = 14x
Total = 14x

Fair enough, I got it wrong but 6x vehicles is still a hefty number. If the changes are temporary, fair enough.

The 'old' X20 didn't work for the simple reason that the X21 was just 'easier' considering it was relatively quick back then and ran every 20 minutes. That's changed now it has some parity & commonality with the X22. The old X20 would likely have been unreliable given the fact it was also standalone.

Introducing the X19 and cannibalising the section of the X21 (with extra journeys) between Ashington & Newbiggin would make sense.

It is -5 vehicles not -6. The Nexus school operated from Ashington is a standalone board at the moment, which would otherwise be worked into the X21/X22 cycle.

The X21/X22 will return as soon as Ashington regain their long term sick (long COVID etc) staff members back. It is the only logical service that could be reduced given everything else is less frequent.
RobinHood
25 Apr 2021, 3:37 pm #1,052

(25 Apr 2021, 2:44 pm)L469 YVK Pre March 2020:
- X21/X22 = 15x
- 35 = 5x
Total = 20x

Current:
- 35/X21/X22 = 14x
Total = 14x

Fair enough, I got it wrong but 6x vehicles is still a hefty number. If the changes are temporary, fair enough.

The 'old' X20 didn't work for the simple reason that the X21 was just 'easier' considering it was relatively quick back then and ran every 20 minutes. That's changed now it has some parity & commonality with the X22. The old X20 would likely have been unreliable given the fact it was also standalone.

Introducing the X19 and cannibalising the section of the X21 (with extra journeys) between Ashington & Newbiggin would make sense.

It is -5 vehicles not -6. The Nexus school operated from Ashington is a standalone board at the moment, which would otherwise be worked into the X21/X22 cycle.

The X21/X22 will return as soon as Ashington regain their long term sick (long COVID etc) staff members back. It is the only logical service that could be reduced given everything else is less frequent.

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L469 YVK



3,549
25 Apr 2021, 4:21 pm #1,053
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(25 Apr 2021, 3:37 pm)RobinHood It is -5 vehicles not -6. The Nexus school operated from Ashington is a standalone board at the moment, which would otherwise be worked into the X21/X22 cycle.

The X21/X22 will return as soon as Ashington regain their long term sick (long COVID etc) staff members back. It is the only logical service that could be reduced given everything else is less frequent.
But no doubt longer term there will be reductions given the change in travel patterns. Gone are the days of Smartie seat Palatines or Cityzens leaking water.

A permanent reduction to the X21 & X22 but with "other" benefits thrown in would be sensible. All boils down to good marketing and how it's sold to the customers.

Take GNE's X11.......relatively new concept (with some history) and marketed correctly on social media. Not just the usual "Service changes from xxxxxx" that Arriva stick on with a mere few weeks until the changes.
L469 YVK
25 Apr 2021, 4:21 pm #1,053

(25 Apr 2021, 3:37 pm)RobinHood It is -5 vehicles not -6. The Nexus school operated from Ashington is a standalone board at the moment, which would otherwise be worked into the X21/X22 cycle.

The X21/X22 will return as soon as Ashington regain their long term sick (long COVID etc) staff members back. It is the only logical service that could be reduced given everything else is less frequent.
But no doubt longer term there will be reductions given the change in travel patterns. Gone are the days of Smartie seat Palatines or Cityzens leaking water.

A permanent reduction to the X21 & X22 but with "other" benefits thrown in would be sensible. All boils down to good marketing and how it's sold to the customers.

Take GNE's X11.......relatively new concept (with some history) and marketed correctly on social media. Not just the usual "Service changes from xxxxxx" that Arriva stick on with a mere few weeks until the changes.

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mb134



4,145
25 Apr 2021, 4:31 pm #1,054
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(25 Apr 2021, 4:21 pm)L469 YVK But no doubt longer term there will be reductions given the change in travel patterns. Gone are the days of Smartie seat Palatines or Cityzens leaking water.

A permanent reduction to the X21 & X22 but with "other" benefits thrown in would be sensible. All boils down to good marketing and how it's sold to the customers.

Take GNE's X11.......relatively new concept (with some history) and marketed correctly on social media. Not just the usual "Service changes from xxxxxx" that Arriva stick on with a mere few weeks until the changes.

I'm not too sure where this comes from? Bar 7484 making regular appearances, the bulk of the X21/22 allocation is made up of 17-plate MMCs with a decent specification. 

If you think these services are the issue with ANE, then you're misinformed. The X21/22 have the newest buses in the Northumbria fleet, having had a Sapphire upgrade a few years previous. Peak time patronage is strong, but they also take decent loads on local journeys off peak - as well as being strong on the weekend. All of that is with the current (or at least, pre-Covid) setup. As far as I'm aware, yesterday was very busy for both services (along with the Alnwick work picking up), and that's been the case on weekdays for a number of weeks too.
mb134
25 Apr 2021, 4:31 pm #1,054

(25 Apr 2021, 4:21 pm)L469 YVK But no doubt longer term there will be reductions given the change in travel patterns. Gone are the days of Smartie seat Palatines or Cityzens leaking water.

A permanent reduction to the X21 & X22 but with "other" benefits thrown in would be sensible. All boils down to good marketing and how it's sold to the customers.

Take GNE's X11.......relatively new concept (with some history) and marketed correctly on social media. Not just the usual "Service changes from xxxxxx" that Arriva stick on with a mere few weeks until the changes.

I'm not too sure where this comes from? Bar 7484 making regular appearances, the bulk of the X21/22 allocation is made up of 17-plate MMCs with a decent specification. 

If you think these services are the issue with ANE, then you're misinformed. The X21/22 have the newest buses in the Northumbria fleet, having had a Sapphire upgrade a few years previous. Peak time patronage is strong, but they also take decent loads on local journeys off peak - as well as being strong on the weekend. All of that is with the current (or at least, pre-Covid) setup. As far as I'm aware, yesterday was very busy for both services (along with the Alnwick work picking up), and that's been the case on weekdays for a number of weeks too.

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Storx



4,571
25 Apr 2021, 6:12 pm #1,055
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(25 Apr 2021, 4:21 pm)L469 YVK But no doubt longer term there will be reductions given the change in travel patterns. Gone are the days of Smartie seat Palatines or Cityzens leaking water.

A permanent reduction to the X21 & X22 but with "other" benefits thrown in would be sensible. All boils down to good marketing and how it's sold to the customers.

Take GNE's X11.......relatively new concept (with some history) and marketed correctly on social media. Not just the usual "Service changes from xxxxxx" that Arriva stick on with a mere few weeks until the changes.

Btw you do realise that the X20 originally started in Newbiggin and it got dropped because no-one used it then the X20 got extended to Alnwick after because no-one used the X20 either.

https://web.archive.org/web/201205291215...px?id=9910 - The original timetable, there's no demand for it.
Storx
25 Apr 2021, 6:12 pm #1,055

(25 Apr 2021, 4:21 pm)L469 YVK But no doubt longer term there will be reductions given the change in travel patterns. Gone are the days of Smartie seat Palatines or Cityzens leaking water.

A permanent reduction to the X21 & X22 but with "other" benefits thrown in would be sensible. All boils down to good marketing and how it's sold to the customers.

Take GNE's X11.......relatively new concept (with some history) and marketed correctly on social media. Not just the usual "Service changes from xxxxxx" that Arriva stick on with a mere few weeks until the changes.

Btw you do realise that the X20 originally started in Newbiggin and it got dropped because no-one used it then the X20 got extended to Alnwick after because no-one used the X20 either.

https://web.archive.org/web/201205291215...px?id=9910 - The original timetable, there's no demand for it.

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L469 YVK



3,549
25 Apr 2021, 7:20 pm #1,056
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(25 Apr 2021, 6:12 pm)Storx Btw you do realise that the X20 originally started in Newbiggin and it got dropped because no-one used it then the X20 got extended to Alnwick after because no-one used the X20 either.

https://web.archive.org/web/201205291215...px?id=9910 - The original timetable, there's no demand for it.
Actually, there was a number of reasons behind the X20 variations:

- Original X20 would've likely ran late often due to tight timings. Also, getting the X21 at the time was "easier".

- There was demand for another Amble / Widdrington to Newcastle service so the Widdrington to Amble part was swapped with the 1. Effectively, the X20 also took over the short X18s as the half hourly X18 was also dropped.

- Timings to Amble were too tight and that with the potential to reopen the Alnwick - Ashington link led to it being extended to Alnwick.

As I've said before, cannibalisation worked for GNE in Derwentside and even more so considering they introduced a proper evening X30 & X70 service. 

If done correctly, it could make Arriva's Ashington network stable, efficient and offer improved links & journeys.
(25 Apr 2021, 4:31 pm)mb134 I'm not too sure where this comes from? Bar 7484 making regular appearances, the bulk of the X21/22 allocation is made up of 17-plate MMCs with a decent specification. 
I meant Smartie seats and leaking Cityzens in terms of the golden days if you know what I mean.
Edited 25 Apr 2021, 7:25 pm by L469 YVK.
L469 YVK
25 Apr 2021, 7:20 pm #1,056

(25 Apr 2021, 6:12 pm)Storx Btw you do realise that the X20 originally started in Newbiggin and it got dropped because no-one used it then the X20 got extended to Alnwick after because no-one used the X20 either.

https://web.archive.org/web/201205291215...px?id=9910 - The original timetable, there's no demand for it.
Actually, there was a number of reasons behind the X20 variations:

- Original X20 would've likely ran late often due to tight timings. Also, getting the X21 at the time was "easier".

- There was demand for another Amble / Widdrington to Newcastle service so the Widdrington to Amble part was swapped with the 1. Effectively, the X20 also took over the short X18s as the half hourly X18 was also dropped.

- Timings to Amble were too tight and that with the potential to reopen the Alnwick - Ashington link led to it being extended to Alnwick.

As I've said before, cannibalisation worked for GNE in Derwentside and even more so considering they introduced a proper evening X30 & X70 service. 

If done correctly, it could make Arriva's Ashington network stable, efficient and offer improved links & journeys.
(25 Apr 2021, 4:31 pm)mb134 I'm not too sure where this comes from? Bar 7484 making regular appearances, the bulk of the X21/22 allocation is made up of 17-plate MMCs with a decent specification. 
I meant Smartie seats and leaking Cityzens in terms of the golden days if you know what I mean.

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mb134



4,145
25 Apr 2021, 9:04 pm #1,057
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(25 Apr 2021, 7:20 pm)L469 YVK If done correctly, it could make Arriva's Ashington network stable, efficient and offer improved links & journeys.

The Ashington network has barely changed for the best part of a decade, I'm not sure how much more stable it could get. In that time, both main routes to Newcastle have grown and the 35 now requires deckers.

In terms of links, anyone living in Ashington is within one bus of: Alnwick, Amble, Bedlington, Blyth, Cramlington, Ellington, Gosforth, Lynemouth, Morpeth, Newbiggin, Newcastle, Warkworth, Whitley Bay and more.
mb134
25 Apr 2021, 9:04 pm #1,057

(25 Apr 2021, 7:20 pm)L469 YVK If done correctly, it could make Arriva's Ashington network stable, efficient and offer improved links & journeys.

The Ashington network has barely changed for the best part of a decade, I'm not sure how much more stable it could get. In that time, both main routes to Newcastle have grown and the 35 now requires deckers.

In terms of links, anyone living in Ashington is within one bus of: Alnwick, Amble, Bedlington, Blyth, Cramlington, Ellington, Gosforth, Lynemouth, Morpeth, Newbiggin, Newcastle, Warkworth, Whitley Bay and more.

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L469 YVK



3,549
25 Apr 2021, 9:26 pm #1,058
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(25 Apr 2021, 9:04 pm)mb134 The Ashington network has barely changed for the best part of a decade, I'm not sure how much more stable it could get. In that time, both main routes to Newcastle have grown and the 35 now requires deckers.

In terms of links, anyone living in Ashington is within one bus of: Alnwick, Amble, Bedlington, Blyth, Cramlington, Ellington, Gosforth, Lynemouth, Morpeth, Newbiggin, Newcastle, Warkworth, Whitley Bay and more.
Them links would still remain.

I was only using Derwentside as a reference to show how the services have changed.

Pre 2015:
- 43/44 every 15 mins
- X30/X31 every 30 mins
- X70/X71 every 30 mins

Pre 2019:
- 6 every 30 mins
- X30/X31 every 15 mins - X30 also replaced 98
- X70/X71 every 30 mins

Post 2019:
- 6 every 60 mins (30 mins between NCL > Sunniside)
- X30/X31 every 15 mins - X30 extended hourly to replace parts of 6
- X70/X71 every 30 mins

Other than a frequency reduction to the X21/X22, the only big change would be a reduction of the X21 between Ashington and Newbiggin............in return for an interworking X19 to be introduced.

A PVR reduction of 3x but, only the reduction of 1x service per hour (all services from Ashington to Newcastle) but an increase of 2x fast services per hour. 

Got to take into account now that the X21 also serves a longer route. The X19 would offer a genuine express from Newbiggin in comparison.
L469 YVK
25 Apr 2021, 9:26 pm #1,058

(25 Apr 2021, 9:04 pm)mb134 The Ashington network has barely changed for the best part of a decade, I'm not sure how much more stable it could get. In that time, both main routes to Newcastle have grown and the 35 now requires deckers.

In terms of links, anyone living in Ashington is within one bus of: Alnwick, Amble, Bedlington, Blyth, Cramlington, Ellington, Gosforth, Lynemouth, Morpeth, Newbiggin, Newcastle, Warkworth, Whitley Bay and more.
Them links would still remain.

I was only using Derwentside as a reference to show how the services have changed.

Pre 2015:
- 43/44 every 15 mins
- X30/X31 every 30 mins
- X70/X71 every 30 mins

Pre 2019:
- 6 every 30 mins
- X30/X31 every 15 mins - X30 also replaced 98
- X70/X71 every 30 mins

Post 2019:
- 6 every 60 mins (30 mins between NCL > Sunniside)
- X30/X31 every 15 mins - X30 extended hourly to replace parts of 6
- X70/X71 every 30 mins

Other than a frequency reduction to the X21/X22, the only big change would be a reduction of the X21 between Ashington and Newbiggin............in return for an interworking X19 to be introduced.

A PVR reduction of 3x but, only the reduction of 1x service per hour (all services from Ashington to Newcastle) but an increase of 2x fast services per hour. 

Got to take into account now that the X21 also serves a longer route. The X19 would offer a genuine express from Newbiggin in comparison.

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Benny



50
25 Apr 2021, 10:01 pm #1,059
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X68 - Darlington Tubwell Row - Darlington Rail Station - Morton Park Morrisons - Teesside Airport - Long Newton - Yarm Rd (from Lidl) - Stockton High Street - Thornaby Rail Station - Teesside Park - Middlesbrough Bus Station

Every Hour (X66 and X67 to reduce down to every hour as well, some remain every 30 minutes during peak times)
Benny
25 Apr 2021, 10:01 pm #1,059

X68 - Darlington Tubwell Row - Darlington Rail Station - Morton Park Morrisons - Teesside Airport - Long Newton - Yarm Rd (from Lidl) - Stockton High Street - Thornaby Rail Station - Teesside Park - Middlesbrough Bus Station

Every Hour (X66 and X67 to reduce down to every hour as well, some remain every 30 minutes during peak times)

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Storx



4,571
25 Apr 2021, 10:49 pm #1,060
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(25 Apr 2021, 9:26 pm)L469 YVK Them links would still remain.

I was only using Derwentside as a reference to show how the services have changed.

Pre 2015:
- 43/44 every 15 mins
- X30/X31 every 30 mins
- X70/X71 every 30 mins

Pre 2019:
- 6 every 30 mins
- X30/X31 every 15 mins - X30 also replaced 98
- X70/X71 every 30 mins

Post 2019:
- 6 every 60 mins (30 mins between NCL > Sunniside)
- X30/X31 every 15 mins - X30 extended hourly to replace parts of 6
- X70/X71 every 30 mins

Other than a frequency reduction to the X21/X22, the only big change would be a reduction of the X21 between Ashington and Newbiggin............in return for an interworking X19 to be introduced.

A PVR reduction of 3x but, only the reduction of 1x service per hour (all services from Ashington to Newcastle) but an increase of 2x fast services per hour. 

Got to take into account now that the X21 also serves a longer route. The X19 would offer a genuine express from Newbiggin in comparison.

Just curious but what's exactly better about the Post 2015 services vs the Pre 2015 services as from a passenger point of view they're considerably worse. Just to list a few:
  • Pre 2015, 5 buses an hour from South Moor to Newcastle. Now 0.
  • Pre 2015, 2 buses an hour from Lanchester to Newcastle. Now 0.
  • Pre 2015, 2 buses an hour from Burnopfield to Durham. Now 0.
  • Pre 2015, Tanfield has buses to Newcastle during the day and buses to Durham. Now it has buses to Newcastle at night only and none to Durham
  • Pre 2015, Hobson had an all day 30 minute bus service to Durham and Newcastle. Now it has the token 6.
  • Pre 2015, South Moor and the rest of the 16/16A South 4 buses an hour to the Metro Centre. Now 0.
  • The X31 extension to Consett also didn't replace the 6 as it was already there in the first place going to Lanchester.
Benefits.
  • If you live in North Stanley or in a farm between Sunniside and Stanley you've got 4 buses an hour instead of 2.
  • X30 evening and Sunday services but not sure losing all of the above is enough for that.
Other than that I'm struggling and idc about lining shareholders pockets with PVR decreases. Changes are a pain in the arse but they can get away with it Derwentside though as there's no competition. Doesn't work too well when there is competition though Stagecoach 22 and GNE 305/40/41 springing to mind.

(25 Apr 2021, 10:01 pm)Benny X68 - Darlington Tubwell Row - Darlington Rail Station - Morton Park Morrisons - Teesside Airport - Long Newton - Yarm Rd (from Lidl) - Stockton High Street - Thornaby Rail Station - Teesside Park - Middlesbrough Bus Station

Every Hour (X66 and X67 to reduce down to every hour as well, some remain every 30 minutes during peak times)

Even knowing it makes sense I'm not sure I'd number that the X68 and would go for the 747 instead and make it about the airport and try and get some subsidies. If the airport gets it's plans ahead that it wants then it definitely warrants a bus service and that would link everywhere that needs a link to it. Both rail stations, Darlington, Stockton and Middlesbrough.
Storx
25 Apr 2021, 10:49 pm #1,060

(25 Apr 2021, 9:26 pm)L469 YVK Them links would still remain.

I was only using Derwentside as a reference to show how the services have changed.

Pre 2015:
- 43/44 every 15 mins
- X30/X31 every 30 mins
- X70/X71 every 30 mins

Pre 2019:
- 6 every 30 mins
- X30/X31 every 15 mins - X30 also replaced 98
- X70/X71 every 30 mins

Post 2019:
- 6 every 60 mins (30 mins between NCL > Sunniside)
- X30/X31 every 15 mins - X30 extended hourly to replace parts of 6
- X70/X71 every 30 mins

Other than a frequency reduction to the X21/X22, the only big change would be a reduction of the X21 between Ashington and Newbiggin............in return for an interworking X19 to be introduced.

A PVR reduction of 3x but, only the reduction of 1x service per hour (all services from Ashington to Newcastle) but an increase of 2x fast services per hour. 

Got to take into account now that the X21 also serves a longer route. The X19 would offer a genuine express from Newbiggin in comparison.

Just curious but what's exactly better about the Post 2015 services vs the Pre 2015 services as from a passenger point of view they're considerably worse. Just to list a few:
  • Pre 2015, 5 buses an hour from South Moor to Newcastle. Now 0.
  • Pre 2015, 2 buses an hour from Lanchester to Newcastle. Now 0.
  • Pre 2015, 2 buses an hour from Burnopfield to Durham. Now 0.
  • Pre 2015, Tanfield has buses to Newcastle during the day and buses to Durham. Now it has buses to Newcastle at night only and none to Durham
  • Pre 2015, Hobson had an all day 30 minute bus service to Durham and Newcastle. Now it has the token 6.
  • Pre 2015, South Moor and the rest of the 16/16A South 4 buses an hour to the Metro Centre. Now 0.
  • The X31 extension to Consett also didn't replace the 6 as it was already there in the first place going to Lanchester.
Benefits.
  • If you live in North Stanley or in a farm between Sunniside and Stanley you've got 4 buses an hour instead of 2.
  • X30 evening and Sunday services but not sure losing all of the above is enough for that.
Other than that I'm struggling and idc about lining shareholders pockets with PVR decreases. Changes are a pain in the arse but they can get away with it Derwentside though as there's no competition. Doesn't work too well when there is competition though Stagecoach 22 and GNE 305/40/41 springing to mind.

(25 Apr 2021, 10:01 pm)Benny X68 - Darlington Tubwell Row - Darlington Rail Station - Morton Park Morrisons - Teesside Airport - Long Newton - Yarm Rd (from Lidl) - Stockton High Street - Thornaby Rail Station - Teesside Park - Middlesbrough Bus Station

Every Hour (X66 and X67 to reduce down to every hour as well, some remain every 30 minutes during peak times)

Even knowing it makes sense I'm not sure I'd number that the X68 and would go for the 747 instead and make it about the airport and try and get some subsidies. If the airport gets it's plans ahead that it wants then it definitely warrants a bus service and that would link everywhere that needs a link to it. Both rail stations, Darlington, Stockton and Middlesbrough.

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