Arriva North East: Service Suggestions
Arriva North East: Service Suggestions
(23 Apr 2021, 9:31 pm)L469 YVK Service X19 (Interworking with X21)
- New hourly service Mondays to Saturdays including Sunday daytimes.
- Monday to Saturday evening service.
- Would operate from Newbiggin Cresswell Arms via Woodhorn then same route as service X20 to Newcastle.
- Up to half hourly combined frequency with X20 between Woodhorn and Newcastle.
(23 Apr 2021, 9:31 pm)L469 YVK Service X19 (Interworking with X21)
- New hourly service Mondays to Saturdays including Sunday daytimes.
- Monday to Saturday evening service.
- Would operate from Newbiggin Cresswell Arms via Woodhorn then same route as service X20 to Newcastle.
- Up to half hourly combined frequency with X20 between Woodhorn and Newcastle.
(23 Apr 2021, 10:15 pm)Storx I know what your trying to do here but there's a lot more to the timetables that you've missed here, there's been quite a bit of work been put into the current timetables and they're actually quite clever if you look into them more (something other bus companies really should learn).X18 & X20 would still coordinate. X19 would just be an additional service covering the Woodhorn to Newcastle part alongside the X20.
Currently it's
Every 15 Minutes between Ashington and Newbiggin with the 35/X21
Every 15 Minutes between Ashington and Bedlington Station with the 1/X21
Every 15 Minutes between Bedlington Station and Bedlington with 2/X21
Every 15 Minutes between Bedlington Station and Blyth with the 1/2
Every 30 Minutes between Amble and Newcastle with the X18/X20 (for reference).
Nothing with the 2/57/X22 between Bedlington and Guide Post but somewhere has to fail.
With your timetables you've made the service between Newbiggin and Ashington worse (Every 20 mins instead of 15 mins) and complete buggered up the 1/2 connections and when you change one you end up with a chain reaction with the next going off.
(23 Apr 2021, 10:43 pm)mb134 If you saw the loads on the X20 at the moment the last thing you'd be suggesting would be another direct service.It goes back to dillution though. GNE had that problem in Derwentside but have pretty much cracked it and got a stable group of 'X' services covering Consett / Stanley and Sunniside to Newcastle.
(23 Apr 2021, 10:15 pm)Storx I know what your trying to do here but there's a lot more to the timetables that you've missed here, there's been quite a bit of work been put into the current timetables and they're actually quite clever if you look into them more (something other bus companies really should learn).X18 & X20 would still coordinate. X19 would just be an additional service covering the Woodhorn to Newcastle part alongside the X20.
Currently it's
Every 15 Minutes between Ashington and Newbiggin with the 35/X21
Every 15 Minutes between Ashington and Bedlington Station with the 1/X21
Every 15 Minutes between Bedlington Station and Bedlington with 2/X21
Every 15 Minutes between Bedlington Station and Blyth with the 1/2
Every 30 Minutes between Amble and Newcastle with the X18/X20 (for reference).
Nothing with the 2/57/X22 between Bedlington and Guide Post but somewhere has to fail.
With your timetables you've made the service between Newbiggin and Ashington worse (Every 20 mins instead of 15 mins) and complete buggered up the 1/2 connections and when you change one you end up with a chain reaction with the next going off.
(23 Apr 2021, 10:43 pm)mb134 If you saw the loads on the X20 at the moment the last thing you'd be suggesting would be another direct service.It goes back to dillution though. GNE had that problem in Derwentside but have pretty much cracked it and got a stable group of 'X' services covering Consett / Stanley and Sunniside to Newcastle.
(23 Apr 2021, 10:47 pm)L469 YVK It goes back to dillution though. GNE had that problem in Derwentside but have pretty much cracked it and got a stable group of 'X' services covering Consett / Stanley and Sunniside to Newcastle.
The prospect of a 30 minute 'fast' Ashington to Newcastle service would be very tempting for passengers. Plus the clear journey time advantage from Newbiggin over the X21, it would be a win-win.
(23 Apr 2021, 10:47 pm)L469 YVK It goes back to dillution though. GNE had that problem in Derwentside but have pretty much cracked it and got a stable group of 'X' services covering Consett / Stanley and Sunniside to Newcastle.
The prospect of a 30 minute 'fast' Ashington to Newcastle service would be very tempting for passengers. Plus the clear journey time advantage from Newbiggin over the X21, it would be a win-win.
(23 Apr 2021, 10:47 pm)L469 YVK X18 & X20 would still coordinate. X19 would just be an additional service covering the Woodhorn to Newcastle part alongside the X20.
I get what you mean about the common frequencies with the locals but, the timetable is mostly geared at providing an 'efficient' service whilst creating new and improved links as well as giving the BTRL some healthy competition (X19 & X20). The X19 perfectly coordinates with the X20.
As for the Newbiggin > Ashington part, the 35 is more than enough to have that part covered with other journeys on the X19 & X21 and them also serving Wansbeck Hospital.
It goes back to dillution though. GNE had that problem in Derwentside but have pretty much cracked it and got a stable group of 'X' services covering Consett / Stanley and Sunniside to Newcastle.
The prospect of a 30 minute 'fast' Ashington to Newcastle service would be very tempting for passengers. Plus the clear journey time advantage from Newbiggin over the X21, it would be a win-win.
(23 Apr 2021, 10:47 pm)L469 YVK X18 & X20 would still coordinate. X19 would just be an additional service covering the Woodhorn to Newcastle part alongside the X20.
I get what you mean about the common frequencies with the locals but, the timetable is mostly geared at providing an 'efficient' service whilst creating new and improved links as well as giving the BTRL some healthy competition (X19 & X20). The X19 perfectly coordinates with the X20.
As for the Newbiggin > Ashington part, the 35 is more than enough to have that part covered with other journeys on the X19 & X21 and them also serving Wansbeck Hospital.
It goes back to dillution though. GNE had that problem in Derwentside but have pretty much cracked it and got a stable group of 'X' services covering Consett / Stanley and Sunniside to Newcastle.
The prospect of a 30 minute 'fast' Ashington to Newcastle service would be very tempting for passengers. Plus the clear journey time advantage from Newbiggin over the X21, it would be a win-win.
I've just checked the suggested times and cross referenced with the 1 & 2. Now to be fair, I didn't take the 1 & 2 into account with the X21.
All of the combined corridors although not 100% perfect, do give some reasonable headway during Mondays to Saturdays.
Evenings & Sundays, I can see the problem with the 1 & X21 between Ashington & Bedlington Station but...........the X21 is the stronger service out of the X21 & X22. Therefore, it's been timed to arrive in Newcastle between xx:30 & xx:00 (xx:37). And then leaving Newcastle between xx:00 & xx:30 (xx:15).
https://www.facebook.com/124685800957368...sn=scwspmo
Look at one of the comments! Clearly demand for a faster Newbiggin to Newcastle bus.
1hr 12 mins MAX (X19) vs 1hr 29 mins (X21) - AM to NCL
1hr 7 mins (X19) vs 1 hr 19 mins (X21) - PM from NCL
Arriva could easily compete & co-exist well with the trains if they put some effort into marketing & doing things properly.
And in response to various previous comments about GNE "salami slicing" their routes, Arriva have cut the PVR of the X21/X22/35 by 8x vehicles with no tangible benefits to the customer. The X19/X21/X22 & 35 would reduce the PVR by 3x (with other service changes reducing the overall PVR further) but actually offer improvements by maintaining a 20 minute service on the 35 AND doubling the number of "fast" Ashington to Newcastle services.
(25 Apr 2021, 9:32 am)L469 YVK https://www.facebook.com/124685800957368...sn=scwspmo
Look at one of the comments! Clearly demand for a faster Newbiggin to Newcastle bus.
1hr 12 mins MAX (X19) vs 1hr 29 mins (X21) - AM to NCL
1hr 7 mins (X19) vs 1 hr 19 mins (X21) - PM from NCL
Arriva could easily compete & co-exist well with the trains if they put some effort into marketing & doing things properly.
And in response to various previous comments about GNE "salami slicing" their routes, Arriva have cut the PVR of the X21/X22/35 by 8x vehicles with no tangible benefits to the customer. The X19/X21/X22 & 35 would reduce the PVR by 3x (with other service changes reducing the overall PVR further) but actually offer improvements by maintaining a 20 minute service on the 35 AND doubling the number of "fast" Ashington to Newcastle services.
(25 Apr 2021, 9:32 am)L469 YVK https://www.facebook.com/124685800957368...sn=scwspmo
Look at one of the comments! Clearly demand for a faster Newbiggin to Newcastle bus.
1hr 12 mins MAX (X19) vs 1hr 29 mins (X21) - AM to NCL
1hr 7 mins (X19) vs 1 hr 19 mins (X21) - PM from NCL
Arriva could easily compete & co-exist well with the trains if they put some effort into marketing & doing things properly.
And in response to various previous comments about GNE "salami slicing" their routes, Arriva have cut the PVR of the X21/X22/35 by 8x vehicles with no tangible benefits to the customer. The X19/X21/X22 & 35 would reduce the PVR by 3x (with other service changes reducing the overall PVR further) but actually offer improvements by maintaining a 20 minute service on the 35 AND doubling the number of "fast" Ashington to Newcastle services.
(25 Apr 2021, 9:32 am)L469 YVK https://www.facebook.com/124685800957368...sn=scwspmo
Look at one of the comments! Clearly demand for a faster Newbiggin to Newcastle bus.
1hr 12 mins MAX (X19) vs 1hr 29 mins (X21) - AM to NCL
1hr 7 mins (X19) vs 1 hr 19 mins (X21) - PM from NCL
Arriva could easily compete & co-exist well with the trains if they put some effort into marketing & doing things properly.
(25 Apr 2021, 9:32 am)L469 YVK https://www.facebook.com/124685800957368...sn=scwspmo
Look at one of the comments! Clearly demand for a faster Newbiggin to Newcastle bus.
1hr 12 mins MAX (X19) vs 1hr 29 mins (X21) - AM to NCL
1hr 7 mins (X19) vs 1 hr 19 mins (X21) - PM from NCL
Arriva could easily compete & co-exist well with the trains if they put some effort into marketing & doing things properly.
(25 Apr 2021, 9:32 am)L469 YVK https://www.facebook.com/124685800957368...sn=scwspmo
Look at one of the comments! Clearly demand for a faster Newbiggin to Newcastle bus.
1hr 12 mins MAX (X19) vs 1hr 29 mins (X21) - AM to NCL
1hr 7 mins (X19) vs 1 hr 19 mins (X21) - PM from NCL
Arriva could easily compete & co-exist well with the trains if they put some effort into marketing & doing things properly.
And in response to various previous comments about GNE "salami slicing" their routes, Arriva have cut the PVR of the X21/X22/35 by 8x vehicles with no tangible benefits to the customer. The X19/X21/X22 & 35 would reduce the PVR by 3x (with other service changes reducing the overall PVR further) but actually offer improvements by maintaining a 20 minute service on the 35 AND doubling the number of "fast" Ashington to Newcastle services.
(25 Apr 2021, 9:32 am)L469 YVK https://www.facebook.com/124685800957368...sn=scwspmo
Look at one of the comments! Clearly demand for a faster Newbiggin to Newcastle bus.
1hr 12 mins MAX (X19) vs 1hr 29 mins (X21) - AM to NCL
1hr 7 mins (X19) vs 1 hr 19 mins (X21) - PM from NCL
Arriva could easily compete & co-exist well with the trains if they put some effort into marketing & doing things properly.
And in response to various previous comments about GNE "salami slicing" their routes, Arriva have cut the PVR of the X21/X22/35 by 8x vehicles with no tangible benefits to the customer. The X19/X21/X22 & 35 would reduce the PVR by 3x (with other service changes reducing the overall PVR further) but actually offer improvements by maintaining a 20 minute service on the 35 AND doubling the number of "fast" Ashington to Newcastle services.
(25 Apr 2021, 1:54 pm)mb134 One comment does not equal demand. If demand existed, the previous attempt with the X20 a few years back would have worked.Pre March 2020:
Also, you state ANE have cut the PVR by 8 vehicles. That's incorrect, it's 5 vehicles across those routes but given current social distancing dupes and the dedicated X30 board only really a reduction of 2
(25 Apr 2021, 1:54 pm)mb134 One comment does not equal demand. If demand existed, the previous attempt with the X20 a few years back would have worked.Pre March 2020:
Also, you state ANE have cut the PVR by 8 vehicles. That's incorrect, it's 5 vehicles across those routes but given current social distancing dupes and the dedicated X30 board only really a reduction of 2
Even if Arriva return back to a PVR of 20x though, a PVR of 17x (INCLUDING the X19) will be far more efficient and offer an even better service.
- Faster buses from Newbiggin including Woodhorn to Newcastle.
- 2x fast services per hour between Ashington and Newcastle.
- Improved frequency in North Seaton.
- Only a reduction of 1x bus per hour between Ashington and Newcastle (all routes).
- Improved reliability on the 35.
- 'Efficient' interworking patterns. First X21/X22 round trips on Mondays to Saturdays allocated single deckers as well as evening & Sunday X19 journeys.
- No great 'reduction' in service for Stakeford & Bedlington considering the 6/14 gaps. Gaps would be 12/18.
- Increased evening & Sunday frequency between Ashington & Morpeth whilst only increasing the evening & Sunday PVR by 1x for the 35/X21/X22 (X19 an additional 2x).
- Later last journeys fron Newcastle .
(25 Apr 2021, 2:44 pm)L469 YVK Pre March 2020:
- X21/X22 = 15x
- 35 = 5x
Total = 20x
Current:
- 35/X21/X22 = 14x
Total = 14x
Fair enough, I got it wrong but 6x vehicles is still a hefty number. If the changes are temporary, fair enough.
The 'old' X20 didn't work for the simple reason that the X21 was just 'easier' considering it was relatively quick back then and ran every 20 minutes. That's changed now it has some parity & commonality with the X22. The old X20 would likely have been unreliable given the fact it was also standalone.
Introducing the X19 and cannibalising the section of the X21 (with extra journeys) between Ashington & Newbiggin would make sense.
(25 Apr 2021, 2:44 pm)L469 YVK Pre March 2020:
- X21/X22 = 15x
- 35 = 5x
Total = 20x
Current:
- 35/X21/X22 = 14x
Total = 14x
Fair enough, I got it wrong but 6x vehicles is still a hefty number. If the changes are temporary, fair enough.
The 'old' X20 didn't work for the simple reason that the X21 was just 'easier' considering it was relatively quick back then and ran every 20 minutes. That's changed now it has some parity & commonality with the X22. The old X20 would likely have been unreliable given the fact it was also standalone.
Introducing the X19 and cannibalising the section of the X21 (with extra journeys) between Ashington & Newbiggin would make sense.
(25 Apr 2021, 3:37 pm)RobinHood It is -5 vehicles not -6. The Nexus school operated from Ashington is a standalone board at the moment, which would otherwise be worked into the X21/X22 cycle.But no doubt longer term there will be reductions given the change in travel patterns. Gone are the days of Smartie seat Palatines or Cityzens leaking water.
The X21/X22 will return as soon as Ashington regain their long term sick (long COVID etc) staff members back. It is the only logical service that could be reduced given everything else is less frequent.
(25 Apr 2021, 3:37 pm)RobinHood It is -5 vehicles not -6. The Nexus school operated from Ashington is a standalone board at the moment, which would otherwise be worked into the X21/X22 cycle.But no doubt longer term there will be reductions given the change in travel patterns. Gone are the days of Smartie seat Palatines or Cityzens leaking water.
The X21/X22 will return as soon as Ashington regain their long term sick (long COVID etc) staff members back. It is the only logical service that could be reduced given everything else is less frequent.
(25 Apr 2021, 4:21 pm)L469 YVK But no doubt longer term there will be reductions given the change in travel patterns. Gone are the days of Smartie seat Palatines or Cityzens leaking water.
A permanent reduction to the X21 & X22 but with "other" benefits thrown in would be sensible. All boils down to good marketing and how it's sold to the customers.
Take GNE's X11.......relatively new concept (with some history) and marketed correctly on social media. Not just the usual "Service changes from xxxxxx" that Arriva stick on with a mere few weeks until the changes.
(25 Apr 2021, 4:21 pm)L469 YVK But no doubt longer term there will be reductions given the change in travel patterns. Gone are the days of Smartie seat Palatines or Cityzens leaking water.
A permanent reduction to the X21 & X22 but with "other" benefits thrown in would be sensible. All boils down to good marketing and how it's sold to the customers.
Take GNE's X11.......relatively new concept (with some history) and marketed correctly on social media. Not just the usual "Service changes from xxxxxx" that Arriva stick on with a mere few weeks until the changes.
(25 Apr 2021, 4:21 pm)L469 YVK But no doubt longer term there will be reductions given the change in travel patterns. Gone are the days of Smartie seat Palatines or Cityzens leaking water.
A permanent reduction to the X21 & X22 but with "other" benefits thrown in would be sensible. All boils down to good marketing and how it's sold to the customers.
Take GNE's X11.......relatively new concept (with some history) and marketed correctly on social media. Not just the usual "Service changes from xxxxxx" that Arriva stick on with a mere few weeks until the changes.
(25 Apr 2021, 4:21 pm)L469 YVK But no doubt longer term there will be reductions given the change in travel patterns. Gone are the days of Smartie seat Palatines or Cityzens leaking water.
A permanent reduction to the X21 & X22 but with "other" benefits thrown in would be sensible. All boils down to good marketing and how it's sold to the customers.
Take GNE's X11.......relatively new concept (with some history) and marketed correctly on social media. Not just the usual "Service changes from xxxxxx" that Arriva stick on with a mere few weeks until the changes.
(25 Apr 2021, 6:12 pm)Storx Btw you do realise that the X20 originally started in Newbiggin and it got dropped because no-one used it then the X20 got extended to Alnwick after because no-one used the X20 either.Actually, there was a number of reasons behind the X20 variations:
https://web.archive.org/web/201205291215...px?id=9910 - The original timetable, there's no demand for it.
(25 Apr 2021, 4:31 pm)mb134 I'm not too sure where this comes from? Bar 7484 making regular appearances, the bulk of the X21/22 allocation is made up of 17-plate MMCs with a decent specification.I meant Smartie seats and leaking Cityzens in terms of the golden days if you know what I mean.
(25 Apr 2021, 6:12 pm)Storx Btw you do realise that the X20 originally started in Newbiggin and it got dropped because no-one used it then the X20 got extended to Alnwick after because no-one used the X20 either.Actually, there was a number of reasons behind the X20 variations:
https://web.archive.org/web/201205291215...px?id=9910 - The original timetable, there's no demand for it.
(25 Apr 2021, 4:31 pm)mb134 I'm not too sure where this comes from? Bar 7484 making regular appearances, the bulk of the X21/22 allocation is made up of 17-plate MMCs with a decent specification.I meant Smartie seats and leaking Cityzens in terms of the golden days if you know what I mean.
(25 Apr 2021, 7:20 pm)L469 YVK If done correctly, it could make Arriva's Ashington network stable, efficient and offer improved links & journeys.
(25 Apr 2021, 7:20 pm)L469 YVK If done correctly, it could make Arriva's Ashington network stable, efficient and offer improved links & journeys.
(25 Apr 2021, 9:04 pm)mb134 The Ashington network has barely changed for the best part of a decade, I'm not sure how much more stable it could get. In that time, both main routes to Newcastle have grown and the 35 now requires deckers.Them links would still remain.
In terms of links, anyone living in Ashington is within one bus of: Alnwick, Amble, Bedlington, Blyth, Cramlington, Ellington, Gosforth, Lynemouth, Morpeth, Newbiggin, Newcastle, Warkworth, Whitley Bay and more.
(25 Apr 2021, 9:04 pm)mb134 The Ashington network has barely changed for the best part of a decade, I'm not sure how much more stable it could get. In that time, both main routes to Newcastle have grown and the 35 now requires deckers.Them links would still remain.
In terms of links, anyone living in Ashington is within one bus of: Alnwick, Amble, Bedlington, Blyth, Cramlington, Ellington, Gosforth, Lynemouth, Morpeth, Newbiggin, Newcastle, Warkworth, Whitley Bay and more.
X68 - Darlington Tubwell Row - Darlington Rail Station - Morton Park Morrisons - Teesside Airport - Long Newton - Yarm Rd (from Lidl) - Stockton High Street - Thornaby Rail Station - Teesside Park - Middlesbrough Bus Station
Every Hour (X66 and X67 to reduce down to every hour as well, some remain every 30 minutes during peak times)
(25 Apr 2021, 9:26 pm)L469 YVK Them links would still remain.
I was only using Derwentside as a reference to show how the services have changed.
Pre 2015:
- 43/44 every 15 mins
- X30/X31 every 30 mins
- X70/X71 every 30 mins
Pre 2019:
- 6 every 30 mins
- X30/X31 every 15 mins - X30 also replaced 98
- X70/X71 every 30 mins
Post 2019:
- 6 every 60 mins (30 mins between NCL > Sunniside)
- X30/X31 every 15 mins - X30 extended hourly to replace parts of 6
- X70/X71 every 30 mins
Other than a frequency reduction to the X21/X22, the only big change would be a reduction of the X21 between Ashington and Newbiggin............in return for an interworking X19 to be introduced.
A PVR reduction of 3x but, only the reduction of 1x service per hour (all services from Ashington to Newcastle) but an increase of 2x fast services per hour.
Got to take into account now that the X21 also serves a longer route. The X19 would offer a genuine express from Newbiggin in comparison.
(25 Apr 2021, 10:01 pm)Benny X68 - Darlington Tubwell Row - Darlington Rail Station - Morton Park Morrisons - Teesside Airport - Long Newton - Yarm Rd (from Lidl) - Stockton High Street - Thornaby Rail Station - Teesside Park - Middlesbrough Bus Station
Every Hour (X66 and X67 to reduce down to every hour as well, some remain every 30 minutes during peak times)
(25 Apr 2021, 9:26 pm)L469 YVK Them links would still remain.
I was only using Derwentside as a reference to show how the services have changed.
Pre 2015:
- 43/44 every 15 mins
- X30/X31 every 30 mins
- X70/X71 every 30 mins
Pre 2019:
- 6 every 30 mins
- X30/X31 every 15 mins - X30 also replaced 98
- X70/X71 every 30 mins
Post 2019:
- 6 every 60 mins (30 mins between NCL > Sunniside)
- X30/X31 every 15 mins - X30 extended hourly to replace parts of 6
- X70/X71 every 30 mins
Other than a frequency reduction to the X21/X22, the only big change would be a reduction of the X21 between Ashington and Newbiggin............in return for an interworking X19 to be introduced.
A PVR reduction of 3x but, only the reduction of 1x service per hour (all services from Ashington to Newcastle) but an increase of 2x fast services per hour.
Got to take into account now that the X21 also serves a longer route. The X19 would offer a genuine express from Newbiggin in comparison.
(25 Apr 2021, 10:01 pm)Benny X68 - Darlington Tubwell Row - Darlington Rail Station - Morton Park Morrisons - Teesside Airport - Long Newton - Yarm Rd (from Lidl) - Stockton High Street - Thornaby Rail Station - Teesside Park - Middlesbrough Bus Station
Every Hour (X66 and X67 to reduce down to every hour as well, some remain every 30 minutes during peak times)