Arriva North East: Service Suggestions
Arriva North East: Service Suggestions
Wonder if they'd consider an hourly X12 on a Sunday - perhaps only running NCL-Durham shorts?
(24 Aug 2022, 11:17 am)Ambassador Wonder if they'd consider an hourly X12 on a Sunday - perhaps only running NCL-Durham shorts?
(24 Aug 2022, 11:17 am)Ambassador Wonder if they'd consider an hourly X12 on a Sunday - perhaps only running NCL-Durham shorts?
(24 Aug 2022, 11:34 am)Kuyoyo The X12 already runs on a Sunday between Durham and Middlesbrough hourly during the day - operated by Stockton depot, interworked with the various other routes within the Middlesbrough area (the majority of X12s arriving into Middlesbrough at xx35 during the main part of the day on a Sunday work onto the 9 to Overfields which depart at xx40 - late afternoon journeys tend to either be on the end of a driver's shift or, in the case of the last two trips, form the middle part of the 5 backshifts). To extend to Newcastle would basically result in additional resources and driver requirements for what is likely to be very little in way of revenue.
(24 Aug 2022, 11:34 am)Kuyoyo The X12 already runs on a Sunday between Durham and Middlesbrough hourly during the day - operated by Stockton depot, interworked with the various other routes within the Middlesbrough area (the majority of X12s arriving into Middlesbrough at xx35 during the main part of the day on a Sunday work onto the 9 to Overfields which depart at xx40 - late afternoon journeys tend to either be on the end of a driver's shift or, in the case of the last two trips, form the middle part of the 5 backshifts). To extend to Newcastle would basically result in additional resources and driver requirements for what is likely to be very little in way of revenue.
(23 Aug 2022, 10:30 pm)OrangeArrow49 Could there be any scope to extend the 47 and 55?
(23 Aug 2022, 10:30 pm)OrangeArrow49 Could there be any scope to extend the 47 and 55?
(24 Aug 2022, 1:18 pm)Andreos1 I reckon the revenue on that X12 must be up due to the farce that is the 21.
People will be looking for alternatives. The X12 could be that alternative.
(24 Aug 2022, 1:18 pm)Andreos1 I reckon the revenue on that X12 must be up due to the farce that is the 21.
People will be looking for alternatives. The X12 could be that alternative.
(24 Aug 2022, 3:43 pm)Dan They’ve missed the opportunity really.
If anyone wanted to capitalise on poor operational performance, it should have been long before now.
Late October is the next service change date, and realistically I think we’re more likely to see cuts before enhancements - especially in the Newcastle area linked to the closure of Jesmond (I’d imagine routes like the 46 are on the hit list).
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(24 Aug 2022, 3:43 pm)Dan They’ve missed the opportunity really.
If anyone wanted to capitalise on poor operational performance, it should have been long before now.
Late October is the next service change date, and realistically I think we’re more likely to see cuts before enhancements - especially in the Newcastle area linked to the closure of Jesmond (I’d imagine routes like the 46 are on the hit list).
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(24 Aug 2022, 3:23 pm)Storx Not really for the 55 as if you head towards Killingworth, your duplicating the 52/53/62/63/X63, head East towards Whitley then you start duplicating the 51/53/54 with no real new connections and those 4 Arriva services aren't particular the strongest anyway to start taking pax away from them.
I don't know what the numbers are like on the 52 using it between Four Lane Ends and Quorum/Killingworth or extend the 54 to additionally loop around FLE to cover that but you could probably make a case of merging the 52 and 55 between Newcastle and Killingworth something like
52: Newcastle to South Gosforth
55: South Gosforth to Palmersville
53: Palmersville to Killingworth
52: Killingworth to Cramlington
55 Withdrawn
You'd also partially restore the other half of the GNE 42 which has recently been withdrawn Forest Hall - Killingworth - Cramlington
(24 Aug 2022, 3:23 pm)Storx Not really for the 55 as if you head towards Killingworth, your duplicating the 52/53/62/63/X63, head East towards Whitley then you start duplicating the 51/53/54 with no real new connections and those 4 Arriva services aren't particular the strongest anyway to start taking pax away from them.
I don't know what the numbers are like on the 52 using it between Four Lane Ends and Quorum/Killingworth or extend the 54 to additionally loop around FLE to cover that but you could probably make a case of merging the 52 and 55 between Newcastle and Killingworth something like
52: Newcastle to South Gosforth
55: South Gosforth to Palmersville
53: Palmersville to Killingworth
52: Killingworth to Cramlington
55 Withdrawn
You'd also partially restore the other half of the GNE 42 which has recently been withdrawn Forest Hall - Killingworth - Cramlington
(24 Aug 2022, 3:56 pm)OrangeArrow49 What cuts do you think we are likely to see? Could the 46/46A, 47 possibly change operators linked to Jesmond depot closing? Maybe even the 55 because it's relatively local to Jesmond rather than Blyth?
Arriva could operate the Northumberland 808 from Blyth, it would fit into their network perfectly.
(24 Aug 2022, 4:07 pm)OrangeArrow49 I think it would be good to merge the 52 and 55.
What about the 47? A very short route but nowhere for it to realistically extend to. Perhaps in October Arriva might give their 685 runs to Stagecoach and extend the 47 as far as maybe Throckley.
The 808 would be a good fit into Arriva's network.
(24 Aug 2022, 3:56 pm)OrangeArrow49 What cuts do you think we are likely to see? Could the 46/46A, 47 possibly change operators linked to Jesmond depot closing? Maybe even the 55 because it's relatively local to Jesmond rather than Blyth?
Arriva could operate the Northumberland 808 from Blyth, it would fit into their network perfectly.
(24 Aug 2022, 4:07 pm)OrangeArrow49 I think it would be good to merge the 52 and 55.
What about the 47? A very short route but nowhere for it to realistically extend to. Perhaps in October Arriva might give their 685 runs to Stagecoach and extend the 47 as far as maybe Throckley.
The 808 would be a good fit into Arriva's network.
(24 Aug 2022, 5:49 pm)peter I doubt the 46 will change operators if Arriva withdrew it, it's mostly duplicated by other services, it wouldn't be money well spent by Nexus. I could see the Featherstone Grove and Hollywood Avenue sections merged into other services. Again, I think the 55 would sooner be withdrawn than pass to another operator as it's also a duplication, perhaps a route change on the 52 would cover some parts.
The 47 is a hospital shuttle, it's not likely to get extended to Throckley anytime soon, in fact I'm pretty sure it's funded for by the NHS Trust. It's more likely to be tacked onto the end of another service (either vehicle or operational wise) more than anything else.
While your obsession with the 808 is nice, you've got to be realistic, it's not a good fit for Arriva's network at all, it goes nowhere near where they operate and Arriva don't run all that many Nexus contracts these days. GNE and Stagecoach actually operate to other places served by the 808 but the fact is no large operator is going to run a bus dead all the way up to Otterburn and back, for a once a day service carrying a handful of people...Phoenix are the most suitable with their little Orion's.
(24 Aug 2022, 5:49 pm)peter I doubt the 46 will change operators if Arriva withdrew it, it's mostly duplicated by other services, it wouldn't be money well spent by Nexus. I could see the Featherstone Grove and Hollywood Avenue sections merged into other services. Again, I think the 55 would sooner be withdrawn than pass to another operator as it's also a duplication, perhaps a route change on the 52 would cover some parts.
The 47 is a hospital shuttle, it's not likely to get extended to Throckley anytime soon, in fact I'm pretty sure it's funded for by the NHS Trust. It's more likely to be tacked onto the end of another service (either vehicle or operational wise) more than anything else.
While your obsession with the 808 is nice, you've got to be realistic, it's not a good fit for Arriva's network at all, it goes nowhere near where they operate and Arriva don't run all that many Nexus contracts these days. GNE and Stagecoach actually operate to other places served by the 808 but the fact is no large operator is going to run a bus dead all the way up to Otterburn and back, for a once a day service carrying a handful of people...Phoenix are the most suitable with their little Orion's.
(24 Aug 2022, 5:49 pm)peter I doubt the 46 will change operators if Arriva withdrew it, it's mostly duplicated by other services, it wouldn't be money well spent by Nexus. I could see the Featherstone Grove and Hollywood Avenue sections merged into other services. Again, I think the 55 would sooner be withdrawn than pass to another operator as it's also a duplication, perhaps a route change on the 52 would cover some parts.
The 47 is a hospital shuttle, it's not likely to get extended to Throckley anytime soon, in fact I'm pretty sure it's funded for by the NHS Trust. It's more likely to be tacked onto the end of another service (either vehicle or operational wise) more than anything else.
While your obsession with the 808 is nice, you've got to be realistic, it's not a good fit for Arriva's network at all, it goes nowhere near where they operate and Arriva don't run all that many Nexus contracts these days. GNE and Stagecoach actually operate to other places served by the 808 but the fact is no large operator is going to run a bus dead all the way up to Otterburn and back, for a once a day service carrying a handful of people...Phoenix are the most suitable with their little Orion's.
(24 Aug 2022, 6:18 pm)OrangeArrow49 I've always thought Not in Service buses could be utilised for once each way services. With regards to Arriva operating the 808 my point was they a based in Blyth, like Phoenix, but at Haymarket Phoenix stand out amongst the Arriva buses, so Arriva could operate it and compliment the 47 (Fenham) and reintroduce a service in Cowgate albeit limited. They have a scholars route from Great Park to Benwell via Cowgate, so not miles from where they operate, although Otterburn would be a bit further don't Arriva serve West Woodburn already?
Be interesting to see if Phoenix keep it for the long term and bizarre it was rerouted through Fenham duplicating other services when they were awarded it.
For the 47, I think it should be an extension of another service, rather than standalone.
Great Park might get new services in the future as the area develops. Perhaps the X47 could be extended to serve there in the future and the Q3 could be extended beyond there slightly.
(24 Aug 2022, 5:49 pm)peter I doubt the 46 will change operators if Arriva withdrew it, it's mostly duplicated by other services, it wouldn't be money well spent by Nexus. I could see the Featherstone Grove and Hollywood Avenue sections merged into other services. Again, I think the 55 would sooner be withdrawn than pass to another operator as it's also a duplication, perhaps a route change on the 52 would cover some parts.
The 47 is a hospital shuttle, it's not likely to get extended to Throckley anytime soon, in fact I'm pretty sure it's funded for by the NHS Trust. It's more likely to be tacked onto the end of another service (either vehicle or operational wise) more than anything else.
While your obsession with the 808 is nice, you've got to be realistic, it's not a good fit for Arriva's network at all, it goes nowhere near where they operate and Arriva don't run all that many Nexus contracts these days. GNE and Stagecoach actually operate to other places served by the 808 but the fact is no large operator is going to run a bus dead all the way up to Otterburn and back, for a once a day service carrying a handful of people...Phoenix are the most suitable with their little Orion's.
(24 Aug 2022, 6:18 pm)OrangeArrow49 I've always thought Not in Service buses could be utilised for once each way services. With regards to Arriva operating the 808 my point was they a based in Blyth, like Phoenix, but at Haymarket Phoenix stand out amongst the Arriva buses, so Arriva could operate it and compliment the 47 (Fenham) and reintroduce a service in Cowgate albeit limited. They have a scholars route from Great Park to Benwell via Cowgate, so not miles from where they operate, although Otterburn would be a bit further don't Arriva serve West Woodburn already?
Be interesting to see if Phoenix keep it for the long term and bizarre it was rerouted through Fenham duplicating other services when they were awarded it.
For the 47, I think it should be an extension of another service, rather than standalone.
Great Park might get new services in the future as the area develops. Perhaps the X47 could be extended to serve there in the future and the Q3 could be extended beyond there slightly.
(24 Aug 2022, 6:18 pm)OrangeArrow49 I've always thought Not in Service buses could be utilised for once each way services. With regards to Arriva operating the 808 my point was they a based in Blyth, like Phoenix, but at Haymarket Phoenix stand out amongst the Arriva buses, so Arriva could operate it and compliment the 47 (Fenham) and reintroduce a service in Cowgate albeit limited. They have a scholars route from Great Park to Benwell via Cowgate, so not miles from where they operate, although Otterburn would be a bit further don't Arriva serve West Woodburn already?
Be interesting to see if Phoenix keep it for the long term and bizarre it was rerouted through Fenham duplicating other services when they were awarded it.
For the 47, I think it should be an extension of another service, rather than standalone.
Great Park might get new services in the future as the area develops. Perhaps the X47 could be extended to serve there in the future and the Q3 could be extended beyond there slightly.
(24 Aug 2022, 6:18 pm)OrangeArrow49 I've always thought Not in Service buses could be utilised for once each way services. With regards to Arriva operating the 808 my point was they a based in Blyth, like Phoenix, but at Haymarket Phoenix stand out amongst the Arriva buses, so Arriva could operate it and compliment the 47 (Fenham) and reintroduce a service in Cowgate albeit limited. They have a scholars route from Great Park to Benwell via Cowgate, so not miles from where they operate, although Otterburn would be a bit further don't Arriva serve West Woodburn already?
Be interesting to see if Phoenix keep it for the long term and bizarre it was rerouted through Fenham duplicating other services when they were awarded it.
For the 47, I think it should be an extension of another service, rather than standalone.
Great Park might get new services in the future as the area develops. Perhaps the X47 could be extended to serve there in the future and the Q3 could be extended beyond there slightly.
(24 Aug 2022, 6:38 pm)Storx Personally I think the minibus PVR will be 12 once it's all finished including the 4 on the 57/57A. The fact they're getting 14 MMC's which is just too many for the current services excluding the 57/57A and the fact no doubt they're heading to Ashington since the new Blyth depot has no space for minibuses.
What goes who knows but believe the PVR's are:
57/57A: 4
46/46A/51/51A: 5
553: 2
555: 1
55: 3
Personally I think the 46/46A might survive in some form (it has subsidies connected to it, with the 51 which I believe is fully subsidised), it's the 55 I'm less confident about, ditch the 55 and you've got the PVR 12.
(24 Aug 2022, 6:38 pm)Storx Personally I think the minibus PVR will be 12 once it's all finished including the 4 on the 57/57A. The fact they're getting 14 MMC's which is just too many for the current services excluding the 57/57A and the fact no doubt they're heading to Ashington since the new Blyth depot has no space for minibuses.
What goes who knows but believe the PVR's are:
57/57A: 4
46/46A/51/51A: 5
553: 2
555: 1
55: 3
Personally I think the 46/46A might survive in some form (it has subsidies connected to it, with the 51 which I believe is fully subsidised), it's the 55 I'm less confident about, ditch the 55 and you've got the PVR 12.
(24 Aug 2022, 6:45 pm)peter I guess you could use a bus that runs onto something at Newcastle and off something to work the return journey, however you're looking at almost an hour journey dead running from Otterburn to Blyth. Arriva are hardly likely to take on the contract, because they operate full time services, Phoenix on the other hand operate Northumberland and Nexus contracts either running locally or just a few journeys. They have smaller buses which use less fuel and thus cost less, so Arriva would never win the tender anyway.
Just because it's mainly Arriva running from Haymarket isn't a very good reason tbh, should Arriva operate Go North East's 309/310/311 because they serve Haymarket and Peter Hogg's 131? The 47 is a hospital contract, it doesn't need any more services to compliment it. A scholars contract is not a regular service that's part of the network though. No Arriva don't serve West Woodburn or anywhere particularly close to the area. So all in all the 808 doesn't fit in with any standard Arriva routes and pigs will fly before they operate it.
(24 Aug 2022, 6:45 pm)peter I guess you could use a bus that runs onto something at Newcastle and off something to work the return journey, however you're looking at almost an hour journey dead running from Otterburn to Blyth. Arriva are hardly likely to take on the contract, because they operate full time services, Phoenix on the other hand operate Northumberland and Nexus contracts either running locally or just a few journeys. They have smaller buses which use less fuel and thus cost less, so Arriva would never win the tender anyway.
Just because it's mainly Arriva running from Haymarket isn't a very good reason tbh, should Arriva operate Go North East's 309/310/311 because they serve Haymarket and Peter Hogg's 131? The 47 is a hospital contract, it doesn't need any more services to compliment it. A scholars contract is not a regular service that's part of the network though. No Arriva don't serve West Woodburn or anywhere particularly close to the area. So all in all the 808 doesn't fit in with any standard Arriva routes and pigs will fly before they operate it.
If the 46 went i'd expect GNE to split the QA and QB and send two electric breeze blocks down the 46 route and the other two via the Q3 route...
It's very posh bus territory down the bottom of the 46 route. It's no wonder the locals aren't endeared by a dodgy Solo!
(24 Aug 2022, 6:18 pm)OrangeArrow49 I've always thought Not in Service buses could be utilised for once each way services. With regards to Arriva operating the 808 my point was they a based in Blyth, like Phoenix, but at Haymarket Phoenix stand out amongst the Arriva buses, so Arriva could operate it and compliment the 47 (Fenham) and reintroduce a service in Cowgate albeit limited. They have a scholars route from Great Park to Benwell via Cowgate, so not miles from where they operate, although Otterburn would be a bit further don't Arriva serve West Woodburn already?
Be interesting to see if Phoenix keep it for the long term and bizarre it was rerouted through Fenham duplicating other services when they were awarded it.
(24 Aug 2022, 6:18 pm)OrangeArrow49 I've always thought Not in Service buses could be utilised for once each way services. With regards to Arriva operating the 808 my point was they a based in Blyth, like Phoenix, but at Haymarket Phoenix stand out amongst the Arriva buses, so Arriva could operate it and compliment the 47 (Fenham) and reintroduce a service in Cowgate albeit limited. They have a scholars route from Great Park to Benwell via Cowgate, so not miles from where they operate, although Otterburn would be a bit further don't Arriva serve West Woodburn already?
Be interesting to see if Phoenix keep it for the long term and bizarre it was rerouted through Fenham duplicating other services when they were awarded it.
(24 Aug 2022, 6:38 pm)Storx Personally I think the minibus PVR will be 12 once it's all finished including the 4 on the 57/57A. The fact they're getting 14 MMC's which is just too many for the current services excluding the 57/57A and the fact no doubt they're heading to Ashington since the new Blyth depot has no space for minibuses.
What goes who knows but believe the PVR's are:
57/57A: 4
46/46A/51/51A: 5
553: 2
555: 1
55: 3
Personally I think the 46/46A might survive in some form (it has subsidies connected to it, with the 51 which I believe is fully subsidised), it's the 55 I'm less confident about, ditch the 55 and you've got the PVR 12.
I have a feeling the 342 might serve the Great Park once the new roads all open over going along via Hazelrigg which is more operational than anything. Would give the likes of Seaton Burn, Wideopen and Kingston Park a link to the new Morrison's store that's opening along there which would actually be useful.
(24 Aug 2022, 6:38 pm)Storx Personally I think the minibus PVR will be 12 once it's all finished including the 4 on the 57/57A. The fact they're getting 14 MMC's which is just too many for the current services excluding the 57/57A and the fact no doubt they're heading to Ashington since the new Blyth depot has no space for minibuses.
What goes who knows but believe the PVR's are:
57/57A: 4
46/46A/51/51A: 5
553: 2
555: 1
55: 3
Personally I think the 46/46A might survive in some form (it has subsidies connected to it, with the 51 which I believe is fully subsidised), it's the 55 I'm less confident about, ditch the 55 and you've got the PVR 12.
I have a feeling the 342 might serve the Great Park once the new roads all open over going along via Hazelrigg which is more operational than anything. Would give the likes of Seaton Burn, Wideopen and Kingston Park a link to the new Morrison's store that's opening along there which would actually be useful.
