Arriva North East: Service Suggestions
Arriva North East: Service Suggestions
(19 Sep 2022, 10:44 am)Storx See if I was going to do stuff I think I'd be more radical than that and do something like:Your 52 would also give Forest Hall back a bus to the Freeman Hospital
X7 - No Changes
X8 - Do the old 363 route via Fern Drive, extended to Morpeth hourly to replace the 43 extension instead of heading to Blyth.
X9 - No Changes (when new housing built run through new estates - see below)
X10/X11 - No Changes
42 - Newcastle to Seaton Burn (turn around at roundabout) only, Every 30 Minutes (when new housing is built at Cramlington and roads opened extended to Cramlington - see below)
43 - Dropped to every 30 minutes, partially replaced by X8 via Dudley and extended to Blyth on X8 route instead of Morpeth (when new housing is built at Cramlington and roads opened run via new estates)
44 - Every 30 Minutes
45 - Every 30 Minutes
46 - No Changes
52 - Same route Newcastle to Four Lane Ends, 55 route to Palmersville, 53 route to Killingworth, same route to Cramlington
53 - No Changes
54 - Additionally serve Four Lane Ends
55 - Withdrawn, Meadway section replaced by 52, South Gosforth to Newcastle covered by X7/X8.
1 - Curtailed at Wansbeck Hospital (PVR 3)
2 - No Changes
56 - Cramlington to Cresswell, hourly (PVR 2)
57 - Whitley Bay to Cramlington via Seghill, Annitsford, direct to Manor Walks, hourly (when new housing built run through new estates - see below)
57A - No Change (PVR 3 Combined)
Everything else remain the same.
Benefits:
New Morpeth and Bedlington to Quorum service (X8)
South Beach gets service back to Regent Centre (43)
Seghill gets 30 minute service back to Whitley Bay / Cramlington
Removed duplicate service 55 and serve more areas with 52 restoring Forest Hall to Cramlington links lost with GNE, the time difference isn't much.
Guide Post and Stakeford get direct Wansbeck Hospital service.
Everything else is pretty much the same.
New routes in future:
43/57 - Lime Route
42 - Orange Route
X9 - Pink Route
(19 Sep 2022, 10:44 am)Storx See if I was going to do stuff I think I'd be more radical than that and do something like:Your 52 would also give Forest Hall back a bus to the Freeman Hospital
X7 - No Changes
X8 - Do the old 363 route via Fern Drive, extended to Morpeth hourly to replace the 43 extension instead of heading to Blyth.
X9 - No Changes (when new housing built run through new estates - see below)
X10/X11 - No Changes
42 - Newcastle to Seaton Burn (turn around at roundabout) only, Every 30 Minutes (when new housing is built at Cramlington and roads opened extended to Cramlington - see below)
43 - Dropped to every 30 minutes, partially replaced by X8 via Dudley and extended to Blyth on X8 route instead of Morpeth (when new housing is built at Cramlington and roads opened run via new estates)
44 - Every 30 Minutes
45 - Every 30 Minutes
46 - No Changes
52 - Same route Newcastle to Four Lane Ends, 55 route to Palmersville, 53 route to Killingworth, same route to Cramlington
53 - No Changes
54 - Additionally serve Four Lane Ends
55 - Withdrawn, Meadway section replaced by 52, South Gosforth to Newcastle covered by X7/X8.
1 - Curtailed at Wansbeck Hospital (PVR 3)
2 - No Changes
56 - Cramlington to Cresswell, hourly (PVR 2)
57 - Whitley Bay to Cramlington via Seghill, Annitsford, direct to Manor Walks, hourly (when new housing built run through new estates - see below)
57A - No Change (PVR 3 Combined)
Everything else remain the same.
Benefits:
New Morpeth and Bedlington to Quorum service (X8)
South Beach gets service back to Regent Centre (43)
Seghill gets 30 minute service back to Whitley Bay / Cramlington
Removed duplicate service 55 and serve more areas with 52 restoring Forest Hall to Cramlington links lost with GNE, the time difference isn't much.
Guide Post and Stakeford get direct Wansbeck Hospital service.
Everything else is pretty much the same.
New routes in future:
43/57 - Lime Route
42 - Orange Route
X9 - Pink Route
(20 Sep 2022, 7:36 pm)V514DFT I'd also swap the 53 and 54
53- Cramlington-Whitley Bay
54-Newcastle-North Shields
Never understood why it was swapped in the first place after the 56/X6 was axed, ran perfectly fine when it was the 356
(20 Sep 2022, 7:36 pm)V514DFT I'd also swap the 53 and 54
53- Cramlington-Whitley Bay
54-Newcastle-North Shields
Never understood why it was swapped in the first place after the 56/X6 was axed, ran perfectly fine when it was the 356
(20 Sep 2022, 7:36 pm)V514DFT I'd also swap the 53 and 5453 used to go to Whitley Bay years ago when it ran from Blyth to Whitley Bay via Cramlington and the current route from Cramlington to New York. Remember doing the whole run of it on a V reg dart, was about 2 hours end to end from Blyth to Whitley Bay.
53- Cramlington-Whitley Bay
54-Newcastle-North Shields
Never understood why it was swapped in the first place after the 56/X6 was axed, ran perfectly fine when it was the 356
(20 Sep 2022, 7:36 pm)V514DFT I'd also swap the 53 and 5453 used to go to Whitley Bay years ago when it ran from Blyth to Whitley Bay via Cramlington and the current route from Cramlington to New York. Remember doing the whole run of it on a V reg dart, was about 2 hours end to end from Blyth to Whitley Bay.
53- Cramlington-Whitley Bay
54-Newcastle-North Shields
Never understood why it was swapped in the first place after the 56/X6 was axed, ran perfectly fine when it was the 356
(28 Sep 2022, 1:46 pm)GNE6312 53 used to go to Whitley Bay years ago when it ran from Blyth to Whitley Bay via Cramlington and the current route from Cramlington to New York. Remember doing the whole run of it on a V reg dart, was about 2 hours end to end from Blyth to Whitley Bay.
(28 Sep 2022, 1:46 pm)GNE6312 53 used to go to Whitley Bay years ago when it ran from Blyth to Whitley Bay via Cramlington and the current route from Cramlington to New York. Remember doing the whole run of it on a V reg dart, was about 2 hours end to end from Blyth to Whitley Bay.
(13 Aug 2022, 9:35 am)L469 YVK A hypothetical one here, would Arriva not have been better off doing a deal with GNE?
GNE > Arriva
- 21 - Arriva takes this on and operates out of Belmont.
- GNE keep the X21 to keep CMA happy.
Arriva > GNE
- All Jesmond routes bar the 306 which is kept by Arriva and moved to Blyth. 685 moved to Hexham.
* All other services split between Percy Main & Riverside.
Benefits:
- Dead mileage reduced for both operators (although GNE would need to keep the X21 > could find space at Washington maybe moving the 8 to Consett and doing remote reliefs at Stanley).
- ANE get another 'gold mine' route in their portfolio alongside the 308 as well as some drivers from GNE's CLS operation if they agreed to TUPE and move to Belmont.
- GNE get an increased presence again in North Tyneside and can (hopefully under a new MD) stabilise their network.
- ANE can have a stronger focus concentrating on Blyth & Ashington.
(13 Aug 2022, 9:35 am)L469 YVK A hypothetical one here, would Arriva not have been better off doing a deal with GNE?
GNE > Arriva
- 21 - Arriva takes this on and operates out of Belmont.
- GNE keep the X21 to keep CMA happy.
Arriva > GNE
- All Jesmond routes bar the 306 which is kept by Arriva and moved to Blyth. 685 moved to Hexham.
* All other services split between Percy Main & Riverside.
Benefits:
- Dead mileage reduced for both operators (although GNE would need to keep the X21 > could find space at Washington maybe moving the 8 to Consett and doing remote reliefs at Stanley).
- ANE get another 'gold mine' route in their portfolio alongside the 308 as well as some drivers from GNE's CLS operation if they agreed to TUPE and move to Belmont.
- GNE get an increased presence again in North Tyneside and can (hopefully under a new MD) stabilise their network.
- ANE can have a stronger focus concentrating on Blyth & Ashington.
(02 Oct 2022, 6:20 am)Storx But I actually agree than Arriva should probably try later buses on the X7 / X11 / X21 / 308 possibly using the 43 / 44 / 45 / 52 / 53 / 54 buses which terminate in Newcastle at a night to get them back to Blyth / Ashington even if it's just a Saturday.
I'm not sure whether last night was a freak night but it's busiest I've seen all them at 11pm even before Covid. The X7 believe had 35+, there was still 24 on board at Seaton Delaval and quite a few had already left. The X11 and X21 seemed even busier. The X11 nearly filled a double decker (and I'm not talking 1 person per seat).
(02 Oct 2022, 6:20 am)Storx But I actually agree than Arriva should probably try later buses on the X7 / X11 / X21 / 308 possibly using the 43 / 44 / 45 / 52 / 53 / 54 buses which terminate in Newcastle at a night to get them back to Blyth / Ashington even if it's just a Saturday.
I'm not sure whether last night was a freak night but it's busiest I've seen all them at 11pm even before Covid. The X7 believe had 35+, there was still 24 on board at Seaton Delaval and quite a few had already left. The X11 and X21 seemed even busier. The X11 nearly filled a double decker (and I'm not talking 1 person per seat).
(02 Oct 2022, 7:09 am)omnicity4659 Not at all a freak night, for a good few hours after the last bus departures there's an endless stream of hackney carriages heading north out of Newcastle.
Nights in Newcastle do fluctuate, sometimes the peak of it ends earlier which will fill up the last buses, but most of the time the peak ends later meaning that taxis handle it.
Some later bus departures might cut down on the amount of taxi drivers driving like dickheads up the Spine Road...
(02 Oct 2022, 7:09 am)omnicity4659 Not at all a freak night, for a good few hours after the last bus departures there's an endless stream of hackney carriages heading north out of Newcastle.
Nights in Newcastle do fluctuate, sometimes the peak of it ends earlier which will fill up the last buses, but most of the time the peak ends later meaning that taxis handle it.
Some later bus departures might cut down on the amount of taxi drivers driving like dickheads up the Spine Road...
(02 Oct 2022, 6:20 am)Storx I'm not going to hunt for your post which always mentioning it.In a lot of instances, moving the last departutres to between 11:20 and 11:30 would work well.
But I actually agree than Arriva should probably try later buses on the X7 / X11 / X21 / 308 possibly using the 43 / 44 / 45 / 52 / 53 / 54 buses which terminate in Newcastle at a night to get them back to Blyth / Ashington even if it's just a Saturday.
I'm not sure whether last night was a freak night but it's busiest I've seen all them at 11pm even before Covid. The X7 believe had 35+, there was still 24 on board at Seaton Delaval and quite a few had already left. The X11 and X21 seemed even busier. The X11 nearly filled a double decker (and I'm not talking 1 person per seat).
Mind it was noticeable how dead the Jesmond routes were on the other hand the 52 was single numbers and the 43 didn't seem much better (why on earth does the 52 and X7 leave a same time is a mystery considering the duplication of the routes and their both hourly but that's another thing).
Wonder if we might see long term the likes of the last 52 scrapped and running on the X7 instead with the inbound X7 terminating at Seghill to save buses, the inbound buses are always dead to get them back to the depot.
(02 Oct 2022, 6:20 am)Storx I'm not going to hunt for your post which always mentioning it.In a lot of instances, moving the last departutres to between 11:20 and 11:30 would work well.
But I actually agree than Arriva should probably try later buses on the X7 / X11 / X21 / 308 possibly using the 43 / 44 / 45 / 52 / 53 / 54 buses which terminate in Newcastle at a night to get them back to Blyth / Ashington even if it's just a Saturday.
I'm not sure whether last night was a freak night but it's busiest I've seen all them at 11pm even before Covid. The X7 believe had 35+, there was still 24 on board at Seaton Delaval and quite a few had already left. The X11 and X21 seemed even busier. The X11 nearly filled a double decker (and I'm not talking 1 person per seat).
Mind it was noticeable how dead the Jesmond routes were on the other hand the 52 was single numbers and the 43 didn't seem much better (why on earth does the 52 and X7 leave a same time is a mystery considering the duplication of the routes and their both hourly but that's another thing).
Wonder if we might see long term the likes of the last 52 scrapped and running on the X7 instead with the inbound X7 terminating at Seghill to save buses, the inbound buses are always dead to get them back to the depot.
(02 Oct 2022, 4:25 pm)L469 YVK In a lot of instances, moving the last departutres to between 11:20 and 11:30 would work well.
If Arriva did however re-introduce a 30 minute Monday to Saturday evening service on the 306 & 308 (every 15 mins combined), I'd say the best laat departures would be:
306 - 22:42 - Sundays
308 - 22:42 - Monday to Saturday
306 - 22:57 - Monday to Saturday
308 - 23:12 - Daily
306 - 23:32 - Daily
308 - 23:52 - *Friday & Saturday only*
Note the last 308 on a Fri & Sat would work off the 44 (23:15 ex Dinnington)
(02 Oct 2022, 4:25 pm)L469 YVK In a lot of instances, moving the last departutres to between 11:20 and 11:30 would work well.
If Arriva did however re-introduce a 30 minute Monday to Saturday evening service on the 306 & 308 (every 15 mins combined), I'd say the best laat departures would be:
306 - 22:42 - Sundays
308 - 22:42 - Monday to Saturday
306 - 22:57 - Monday to Saturday
308 - 23:12 - Daily
306 - 23:32 - Daily
308 - 23:52 - *Friday & Saturday only*
Note the last 308 on a Fri & Sat would work off the 44 (23:15 ex Dinnington)
When the new railway comes to Ashington, changes to the X21/X22 to serve more areas as a 20 minute service will be overkill via Bedlington station.
X21 - X22 route to Bedlington, X21 route to Jubilee Ind. Estate, Newbiggin Road, College Road, Hawthorn Road, Ashington Bus Station, Current Route to Newbiggin (Every 30 Minutes)
X22 - Current route to Ashington then Woodhorn Road, Woodhorn Lane, Hunstanton, Garcia Drive, Pine Valley Way - Terminate (Every 30 Minutes)
X23 - X21 Route to Bedlington, X22 route to Guide Post, Stakeford Lane, Ramsheid Road, Blackthorn Way, Wansbeck Road, Green Lane, N Seaton Road, Ashington (Every 30 Minutes)
New X21 - https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.18500...978252!3e0
New X22 - https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.18091...63!1m0!3e0
New X23 - https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.18414...63!1m0!3e0
Reasons: Faster service to Newbiggin avoiding Nedderton, serve more areas of Ashington including new housing estates which are unserved and reduces the X21 which are going to be hampered by the train.
Loses: Nedderton and Newbiggin slightly decreased service, Milburn Road loses bus but Hawthorn Road is 100m to the East.
(26 Nov 2022, 8:58 am)Storx When the new railway comes to Ashington, changes to the X21/X22 to serve more areas as a 20 minute service will be overkill via Bedlington station.Only issue I could foresee is a 10-6-14 service from the Red Lion unless the X23 followed a similar stopping pattern to the 'old' X22 and X33 immediately turning onto Glebe Road from Ridge Terrace.
X21 - X22 route to Bedlington, X21 route to Jubilee Ind. Estate, Newbiggin Road, College Road, Hawthorn Road, Ashington Bus Station, Current Route to Newbiggin (Every 30 Minutes)
X22 - Current route to Ashington then Woodhorn Road, Woodhorn Lane, Hunstanton, Garcia Drive, Pine Valley Way - Terminate (Every 30 Minutes)
X23 - X21 Route to Bedlington, X22 route to Guide Post, Stakeford Lane, Ramsheid Road, Blackthorn Way, Wansbeck Road, Green Lane, N Seaton Road, Ashington (Every 30 Minutes)
New X21 - https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.18500...978252!3e0
New X22 - https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.18091...63!1m0!3e0
New X23 - https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.18414...63!1m0!3e0
Reasons: Faster service to Newbiggin avoiding Nedderton, serve more areas of Ashington including new housing estates which are unserved and reduces the X21 which are going to be hampered by the train.
Loses: Nedderton and Newbiggin slightly decreased service, Milburn Road loses bus but Hawthorn Road is 100m to the East.
(26 Nov 2022, 8:58 am)Storx When the new railway comes to Ashington, changes to the X21/X22 to serve more areas as a 20 minute service will be overkill via Bedlington station.Only issue I could foresee is a 10-6-14 service from the Red Lion unless the X23 followed a similar stopping pattern to the 'old' X22 and X33 immediately turning onto Glebe Road from Ridge Terrace.
X21 - X22 route to Bedlington, X21 route to Jubilee Ind. Estate, Newbiggin Road, College Road, Hawthorn Road, Ashington Bus Station, Current Route to Newbiggin (Every 30 Minutes)
X22 - Current route to Ashington then Woodhorn Road, Woodhorn Lane, Hunstanton, Garcia Drive, Pine Valley Way - Terminate (Every 30 Minutes)
X23 - X21 Route to Bedlington, X22 route to Guide Post, Stakeford Lane, Ramsheid Road, Blackthorn Way, Wansbeck Road, Green Lane, N Seaton Road, Ashington (Every 30 Minutes)
New X21 - https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.18500...978252!3e0
New X22 - https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.18091...63!1m0!3e0
New X23 - https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.18414...63!1m0!3e0
Reasons: Faster service to Newbiggin avoiding Nedderton, serve more areas of Ashington including new housing estates which are unserved and reduces the X21 which are going to be hampered by the train.
Loses: Nedderton and Newbiggin slightly decreased service, Milburn Road loses bus but Hawthorn Road is 100m to the East.
(26 Nov 2022, 6:17 pm)L469 YVK Only issue I could foresee is a 10-6-14 service from the Red Lion unless the X23 followed a similar stopping pattern to the 'old' X22 and X33 immediately turning onto Glebe Road from Ridge Terrace.
(26 Nov 2022, 6:17 pm)L469 YVK Only issue I could foresee is a 10-6-14 service from the Red Lion unless the X23 followed a similar stopping pattern to the 'old' X22 and X33 immediately turning onto Glebe Road from Ridge Terrace.
(26 Nov 2022, 8:57 pm)Storx To be fair it's already like that anyway with it being 14 - 6 instead atm. Arguably it's a slight improvement in a way but I'm not sure if I'd just pull the X23 out of it altogether maybe with singles.Totally agree about the X21 and missing Nedderton. Although I've had the same debate on here in the past and the one thing (rightly) about the X21 / X22 was that they were a mess before being simplified in 2012 and have remained very stable since. Ironically overseen by GNE's now current MD.
So the X21/X22 run every 15 minutes between Bedlington and the X23 just runs inbetween, maybe 5 minutes infront of the X21 out of Newcastle so it groups back together at Bedlington so it's every 15 minutes from there to Ashington instead with the X22.
Similar to how the X9/X10/X11 work from Blyth. Anyone with sense from Bedlington itself would take the X22 anyway rather than the detour round Nedderton if they could especially if it was 4 buses an hour.
Undecided on the X23, now thinking this https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.18093...63!1m0!3e0 would be better with the X22 terminating short instead. Would give access to the hospital across Ashington and give the top end a link to Newcastle and not kill the 57/57A by duplicating it through Stakeford.
(26 Nov 2022, 8:57 pm)Storx To be fair it's already like that anyway with it being 14 - 6 instead atm. Arguably it's a slight improvement in a way but I'm not sure if I'd just pull the X23 out of it altogether maybe with singles.Totally agree about the X21 and missing Nedderton. Although I've had the same debate on here in the past and the one thing (rightly) about the X21 / X22 was that they were a mess before being simplified in 2012 and have remained very stable since. Ironically overseen by GNE's now current MD.
So the X21/X22 run every 15 minutes between Bedlington and the X23 just runs inbetween, maybe 5 minutes infront of the X21 out of Newcastle so it groups back together at Bedlington so it's every 15 minutes from there to Ashington instead with the X22.
Similar to how the X9/X10/X11 work from Blyth. Anyone with sense from Bedlington itself would take the X22 anyway rather than the detour round Nedderton if they could especially if it was 4 buses an hour.
Undecided on the X23, now thinking this https://www.google.com/maps/dir/55.18093...63!1m0!3e0 would be better with the X22 terminating short instead. Would give access to the hospital across Ashington and give the top end a link to Newcastle and not kill the 57/57A by duplicating it through Stakeford.
What seems to be missed quite consistently when discussing the X21/22 is the amount of local trips being made, particularly on the X21.
Cutting the frequency between Ashington/Stakeford/Bedlington Station/Bedlington harms those making small hops, which is a decent chunk of revenue for Arriva given the fares. It's also the type of journey the introduction of trains isn't going to harm.
Increasing the frequency along the X22 route in the suggestions above seems odd, it's generally the weaker of the two routes. The Bedlington to Guide Post section is already covered well by the current X22 and the 2.
I'd get behind serving Blackthorn Way though, that area of Ashington needs a better service and it's easy enough to do. I imagine extending the X22 around the new estate at the hospital once the loop is complete would be the best way to do it, improving links for the elderly folks living around Ashington Drive and Fallowfield.
(26 Nov 2022, 11:33 pm)mb134 What seems to be missed quite consistently when discussing the X21/22 is the amount of local trips being made, particularly on the X21.
Cutting the frequency between Ashington/Stakeford/Bedlington Station/Bedlington harms those making small hops, which is a decent chunk of revenue for Arriva given the fares. It's also the type of journey the introduction of trains isn't going to harm.
Increasing the frequency along the X22 route in the suggestions above seems odd, it's generally the weaker of the two routes. The Bedlington to Guide Post section is already covered well by the current X22 and the 2.
I'd get behind serving Blackthorn Way though, that area of Ashington needs a better service and it's easy enough to do. I imagine extending the X22 around the new estate at the hospital once the loop is complete would be the best way to do it, improving links for the elderly folks living around Ashington Drive and Fallowfield.
(26 Nov 2022, 11:33 pm)mb134 What seems to be missed quite consistently when discussing the X21/22 is the amount of local trips being made, particularly on the X21.
Cutting the frequency between Ashington/Stakeford/Bedlington Station/Bedlington harms those making small hops, which is a decent chunk of revenue for Arriva given the fares. It's also the type of journey the introduction of trains isn't going to harm.
Increasing the frequency along the X22 route in the suggestions above seems odd, it's generally the weaker of the two routes. The Bedlington to Guide Post section is already covered well by the current X22 and the 2.
I'd get behind serving Blackthorn Way though, that area of Ashington needs a better service and it's easy enough to do. I imagine extending the X22 around the new estate at the hospital once the loop is complete would be the best way to do it, improving links for the elderly folks living around Ashington Drive and Fallowfield.
- X8 - withdrawn and replaced by X7 & 42.
- X9 - Same route between Blyth & Shankhouse then same as X10 to Newcastle. Common 10 minute frequency with X10/X11 from Blyth and between Parkside and Newcastle. Will provide even faster journeys for North Blyth & Bebside. Every 20 minutes combined evenings & Sundays. Late Sunday evening X10 journeys withdrawn and X9 at these times additionally serves Newsham Shops.
- 42 - 'Old' X9/X13 route from Blyth to Newcastle but all stops via Seaton Burn & Wideopen. Every 30 mins Newcastle to Cramlington continuing hourly to Blyth including Amersham Road re-instating link to Regent Centre.
- 43 - Re-routed between Cramlington and Dudley via High Pit, Annitsford and Fern Drive. Every 30 minutes continuing to Morpeth every 60 minutes.
- 44/45 - Re-instated to every 30 minutes each.