Tyne and Wear Metro
Tyne and Wear Metro
(26 Jan 2024, 12:20 am)The busmanT Introduction of new trains further delayed (summer now rumoured)
https://www.nexus.org.uk/news/item/intro...ect-update
(26 Jan 2024, 12:20 am)The busmanT Introduction of new trains further delayed (summer now rumoured)
https://www.nexus.org.uk/news/item/intro...ect-update
(29 Oct 2023, 10:28 am)Storx The general idea is you'd have the 'express' service running 2 minutes in front of the slow stopper service.
Personally on paper I don't think it's a bad idea at peak times in a way.
You could have the 'express service' at say 8:18 in the morning from Monkseaton running
Monkseaton -> West Monkseaton -> Shiremoor -> Northumberland Park -> NON STOP -> South Gosforth -> NON STOP -> West Jesmond -> Jesmond -> All stops to Pelaw
Then you'd have the slow service running at 8:20 immediately after it stopping at everywhere. That express service would then catch up the 8.08 service by the time it gets to the West Jesmond area and run normally and save a good 8 minutes or so. The peak time Monkseaton service used to be slammed by the time it go to Northumberland Park anyway so would benefit everyone rather than massive dwell times while everyone is fighting to get on the train at places like Benton and a second train queueing immediately behind half empty.
The Metropolitan Line does it in London between Baker Street and the further routes. It's arguably better than having 2 services running 3 minutes apart duplicating each other..
(29 Oct 2023, 10:28 am)Storx The general idea is you'd have the 'express' service running 2 minutes in front of the slow stopper service.
Personally on paper I don't think it's a bad idea at peak times in a way.
You could have the 'express service' at say 8:18 in the morning from Monkseaton running
Monkseaton -> West Monkseaton -> Shiremoor -> Northumberland Park -> NON STOP -> South Gosforth -> NON STOP -> West Jesmond -> Jesmond -> All stops to Pelaw
Then you'd have the slow service running at 8:20 immediately after it stopping at everywhere. That express service would then catch up the 8.08 service by the time it gets to the West Jesmond area and run normally and save a good 8 minutes or so. The peak time Monkseaton service used to be slammed by the time it go to Northumberland Park anyway so would benefit everyone rather than massive dwell times while everyone is fighting to get on the train at places like Benton and a second train queueing immediately behind half empty.
The Metropolitan Line does it in London between Baker Street and the further routes. It's arguably better than having 2 services running 3 minutes apart duplicating each other..
(30 Jan 2024, 8:53 am)Economic505 Delayed to end of 2024 according to Chronicle today (30/01). Is the manufacturer the same one that are having issues with Mersey Rail?
(30 Jan 2024, 9:04 am)54APhotography According to Nexus with the new trains (whenever that is likely to be), timetable enhancement would make it impossible for 'express' or limited stop services because of the signalling headway. The only possible way of changing that is cab signalling, which even then would reduce headways only by at best two minutes during the rush hour, given the intermediate Manors to Pelaw crush services. The cost of cab signalling is excessive to Nexus, and Network Rail won't install that on the Durham Coast. The structure of the timetabling is adequate.
Focus on support for extensions, the most plausible being Pelaw to South Hylton via Washington, which operated as up and down loop trains. That is within the fleet capability, more trains would be needed for any adventure into Dunston, which would need immense funding, well beyond anything available regardless of who is in power.
(30 Jan 2024, 9:04 am)54APhotography According to Nexus with the new trains (whenever that is likely to be), timetable enhancement would make it impossible for 'express' or limited stop services because of the signalling headway. The only possible way of changing that is cab signalling, which even then would reduce headways only by at best two minutes during the rush hour, given the intermediate Manors to Pelaw crush services. The cost of cab signalling is excessive to Nexus, and Network Rail won't install that on the Durham Coast. The structure of the timetabling is adequate.
Focus on support for extensions, the most plausible being Pelaw to South Hylton via Washington, which operated as up and down loop trains. That is within the fleet capability, more trains would be needed for any adventure into Dunston, which would need immense funding, well beyond anything available regardless of who is in power.
(30 Jan 2024, 2:51 pm)Storx Long bump there, but don't see why they couldn't run the peak extras, non stop a few stations. As long as it doesn't catch up the train in front there's always 10 mins or so it could effectively 'catch' up the train in front. It was more about distributing the loads, more so than anything, than having the current problem where the peak train 2 minutes in front is slammed and the normal train is delayed sitting behind the peak train.Washington is the only feasible route, Penshaw, Washington South and Wardley are very good opportunities to grow. Heavy Rail would serve nowhere bar Ferryhill after Washington South, Stillington is not worth the expense of a station. If there was demand between Stockton and Ferryhill, Arriva would run something.
Mind I still, and always will, think the South Hylton to Pelaw via fields and the outskirts of Washington is a monumental waste of money and time. I'd rather focus on getting a national rail service all the way through to Ferryhill instead personally. There's no sensible journeys, no-one from Sunderland wants to be on the outskirts of Washington and by the time most people travel to the outskirts of Washington on a bus, they might aswell stay on the same bus to Sunderland since the Metro goes around the world.
Rail in the North East is a complete foreign idea to the Tyne and Wear councils though.
(30 Jan 2024, 2:51 pm)Storx Long bump there, but don't see why they couldn't run the peak extras, non stop a few stations. As long as it doesn't catch up the train in front there's always 10 mins or so it could effectively 'catch' up the train in front. It was more about distributing the loads, more so than anything, than having the current problem where the peak train 2 minutes in front is slammed and the normal train is delayed sitting behind the peak train.Washington is the only feasible route, Penshaw, Washington South and Wardley are very good opportunities to grow. Heavy Rail would serve nowhere bar Ferryhill after Washington South, Stillington is not worth the expense of a station. If there was demand between Stockton and Ferryhill, Arriva would run something.
Mind I still, and always will, think the South Hylton to Pelaw via fields and the outskirts of Washington is a monumental waste of money and time. I'd rather focus on getting a national rail service all the way through to Ferryhill instead personally. There's no sensible journeys, no-one from Sunderland wants to be on the outskirts of Washington and by the time most people travel to the outskirts of Washington on a bus, they might aswell stay on the same bus to Sunderland since the Metro goes around the world.
Rail in the North East is a complete foreign idea to the Tyne and Wear councils though.
(30 Jan 2024, 3:02 pm)54APhotography Washington is the only feasible route, Penshaw, Washington South and Wardley are very good opportunities to grow. Heavy Rail would serve nowhere bar Ferryhill after Washington South, Stillington is not worth the expense of a station. If there was demand between Stockton and Ferryhill, Arriva would run something.
The region has been reliant on buses and personal transport largely since the early to mod sixties. My generation and the next had only arterial rail access. It is too late to try and develop South Durham for rail. The South Tyneside & Wearside loop makes sense for many reasons, one being greater utilisation of trains, and Wardley is a major player now, Metros each way would be ideal for Amazon workers.
(30 Jan 2024, 3:02 pm)54APhotography Washington is the only feasible route, Penshaw, Washington South and Wardley are very good opportunities to grow. Heavy Rail would serve nowhere bar Ferryhill after Washington South, Stillington is not worth the expense of a station. If there was demand between Stockton and Ferryhill, Arriva would run something.
The region has been reliant on buses and personal transport largely since the early to mod sixties. My generation and the next had only arterial rail access. It is too late to try and develop South Durham for rail. The South Tyneside & Wearside loop makes sense for many reasons, one being greater utilisation of trains, and Wardley is a major player now, Metros each way would be ideal for Amazon workers.
(30 Jan 2024, 3:48 pm)Storx It's not about the line itself though, it's about moving traffic off the East Coast Mainline to open new paths on there, you could even open paths for a local service on there so the likes of Chester Le Street, Saltwell, Birtley, Newton Hall etc. had a rail service which is more than the fields around South Hylton.
For the Leamside Line itself, there's much more to the South of there aswell, such as Houghton Le Spring, Penshaw, Shiney Row etc which is being ignored.
If you were really clever, you could also use the railway line as a catalyst for new development. We're desperate for new housing, if you built a station where that Rainton Meadows is then you could use those fields for new housing, they already have excellent road links being near the A1(M) and A690. Now you just need the transport side and it's sorted. It's a change from the usual where we build houses and then try to force some buses through.
Also, if you were really innovative, you could create a new Sunderland Parkway station, extend the green line from Sunderland through to there and get some intercity trains stopping, ie one Cross Country and maybe a TPE service so people travelling to Sunderland have intercity trains without doubling back via Newcastle.
There's so much more to the Leamside Line than the dead curve from Washington to Sunderland. Metro trains should be no-where near clogging those tracks up, going 50 mph - the only sensible more would be a short spur from Pelaw to Follingsby Park and extend the Pelaw peaks through (or run them all day).
(30 Jan 2024, 3:48 pm)Storx It's not about the line itself though, it's about moving traffic off the East Coast Mainline to open new paths on there, you could even open paths for a local service on there so the likes of Chester Le Street, Saltwell, Birtley, Newton Hall etc. had a rail service which is more than the fields around South Hylton.
For the Leamside Line itself, there's much more to the South of there aswell, such as Houghton Le Spring, Penshaw, Shiney Row etc which is being ignored.
If you were really clever, you could also use the railway line as a catalyst for new development. We're desperate for new housing, if you built a station where that Rainton Meadows is then you could use those fields for new housing, they already have excellent road links being near the A1(M) and A690. Now you just need the transport side and it's sorted. It's a change from the usual where we build houses and then try to force some buses through.
Also, if you were really innovative, you could create a new Sunderland Parkway station, extend the green line from Sunderland through to there and get some intercity trains stopping, ie one Cross Country and maybe a TPE service so people travelling to Sunderland have intercity trains without doubling back via Newcastle.
There's so much more to the Leamside Line than the dead curve from Washington to Sunderland. Metro trains should be no-where near clogging those tracks up, going 50 mph - the only sensible more would be a short spur from Pelaw to Follingsby Park and extend the Pelaw peaks through (or run them all day).
(30 Jan 2024, 4:04 pm)54APhotography I agree with any reopening and cohesive plan between local and national government, developers and investors. Problem is there is no cohesive thinking, local politics is all about infighting and corruption. National politics much the same but with added ignorance of the North East.
In theory there is another way of getting to Durham, via Wardley and Washington South, Hence houses and off the Leamside to Brasside and Newton Hall. How the metro would get to Durham Station is another matter.
The other major issue is the Leamside would need massive re-engineering to be a real alternative, that means full electrification and 125mph linespeed.
And even if that were possible, the bottleneck is still Darlington. You can't rebuild Northallerton to Ferryhill without monumental cost. Yarm viaduct is unlikely to be able to electrified without structural problems.
If there were any serious commitment a completely new line needs building, then downgrade the ECML, would work out cheaper.
Realistically very little is going to happen heavy rail wise up here. A new Government will be so hamstrung by the mess the Toriea have caused that one term will pass without anything good happening......
(30 Jan 2024, 4:04 pm)54APhotography I agree with any reopening and cohesive plan between local and national government, developers and investors. Problem is there is no cohesive thinking, local politics is all about infighting and corruption. National politics much the same but with added ignorance of the North East.
In theory there is another way of getting to Durham, via Wardley and Washington South, Hence houses and off the Leamside to Brasside and Newton Hall. How the metro would get to Durham Station is another matter.
The other major issue is the Leamside would need massive re-engineering to be a real alternative, that means full electrification and 125mph linespeed.
And even if that were possible, the bottleneck is still Darlington. You can't rebuild Northallerton to Ferryhill without monumental cost. Yarm viaduct is unlikely to be able to electrified without structural problems.
If there were any serious commitment a completely new line needs building, then downgrade the ECML, would work out cheaper.
Realistically very little is going to happen heavy rail wise up here. A new Government will be so hamstrung by the mess the Toriea have caused that one term will pass without anything good happening......
(30 Jan 2024, 4:31 pm)Storx I totally agreed, to be fair. Mind I think some of the slower trains wouldn't care as long as it's not too slow, if they're terminating at Newcastle anyway.
It's a shame really like, personally I genuinely think there's more benefit to the line South of Washington rather than East to Sunderland. I still don't think they'll ever get that bit anyway and it'll end at Washington anyway, bridge too expensive or something as the excuse.
One thing that would help though is if they let us control our trains, I know Burnham is trying to take control of the local services in Manchester and it would massively help, get the Tyne Valley, Northumberland Line, Durham Coast and imo Leamside Line in it's own little sub rail network.
Btw when you said there's nothing South of Ferryhill, one thing I'd love to see is to cut the corner off at Newton Aycliffe and open Bishop Auckland / Shildon to Newcastle services.
I'm surprised it's never been mentioned ever before, when we have stuff like Consett lines flying around which let's be honest, is as bonkers as they get. Bit beyond this thread though. Seems a cheap enough job, it's just what trains tbh.
(30 Jan 2024, 4:31 pm)Storx I totally agreed, to be fair. Mind I think some of the slower trains wouldn't care as long as it's not too slow, if they're terminating at Newcastle anyway.
It's a shame really like, personally I genuinely think there's more benefit to the line South of Washington rather than East to Sunderland. I still don't think they'll ever get that bit anyway and it'll end at Washington anyway, bridge too expensive or something as the excuse.
One thing that would help though is if they let us control our trains, I know Burnham is trying to take control of the local services in Manchester and it would massively help, get the Tyne Valley, Northumberland Line, Durham Coast and imo Leamside Line in it's own little sub rail network.
Btw when you said there's nothing South of Ferryhill, one thing I'd love to see is to cut the corner off at Newton Aycliffe and open Bishop Auckland / Shildon to Newcastle services.
I'm surprised it's never been mentioned ever before, when we have stuff like Consett lines flying around which let's be honest, is as bonkers as they get. Bit beyond this thread though. Seems a cheap enough job, it's just what trains tbh.
(30 Jan 2024, 4:36 pm)54APhotography Your red line is almost exactly the route of the Shildon to Newport line which crossed the ECML at Ricknall and joined the Stillington line at Redmarshall. Was a freight route and even electrified under the the NER.
(30 Jan 2024, 4:36 pm)54APhotography Your red line is almost exactly the route of the Shildon to Newport line which crossed the ECML at Ricknall and joined the Stillington line at Redmarshall. Was a freight route and even electrified under the the NER.
(30 Jan 2024, 4:55 pm)Storx It is the line I believe, it's all still in situ ie. road bridges etc, don't believe there's any overbuild on it, at all. Don't see any reason why instead of going over the ECML, it couldn't curve onto it. Would be a massive massive coup for the likes of Bishop Auckland etc to get a direct fast connection to all the jobs without sitting on a bus for 3 hours every day.Bishop Auckland was on the main line for many years before the Hunwick route was down graded and the Aycliffe route adopted as primary
(30 Jan 2024, 4:55 pm)Storx It is the line I believe, it's all still in situ ie. road bridges etc, don't believe there's any overbuild on it, at all. Don't see any reason why instead of going over the ECML, it couldn't curve onto it. Would be a massive massive coup for the likes of Bishop Auckland etc to get a direct fast connection to all the jobs without sitting on a bus for 3 hours every day.Bishop Auckland was on the main line for many years before the Hunwick route was down graded and the Aycliffe route adopted as primary
(30 Jan 2024, 5:00 pm)54APhotography Bishop Auckland was on the main line for many years before the Hunwick route was down graded and the Aycliffe route adopted as primary
(30 Jan 2024, 5:00 pm)54APhotography Bishop Auckland was on the main line for many years before the Hunwick route was down graded and the Aycliffe route adopted as primary
(30 Jan 2024, 5:04 pm)Storx Honestly, never knew that if I had to be honest. It's one of those lines, that should've never been shut though. We could go on all day with that list though mind.
(30 Jan 2024, 5:04 pm)Storx Honestly, never knew that if I had to be honest. It's one of those lines, that should've never been shut though. We could go on all day with that list though mind.
Tried to get breakfast in Gateshead Spoons this morning, but the riff raff put me off enough to feel like having a play on the Metro.
One thing I noticed is the stations smelled nice, unlike the last time I used the Metro where it smelled like piss.
Have they got air fresheners blasting out, or was I just following nice smelling people?
And if you're wondering, I got off at North Shields to get my free Cooplands breakfast
Sent from my SM-F721B using Tapatalk
(08 Feb 2024, 1:33 pm)streetdeckfan Tried to get breakfast in Gateshead Spoons this morning, but the riff raff put me off enough to feel like having a play on the Metro.
One thing I noticed is the stations smelled nice, unlike the last time I used the Metro where it smelled like piss.
Have they got air fresheners blasting out, or was I just following nice smelling people?
And if you're wondering, I got off at North Shields to get my free Cooplands breakfast
Sent from my SM-F721B using Tapatalk
(08 Feb 2024, 1:33 pm)streetdeckfan Tried to get breakfast in Gateshead Spoons this morning, but the riff raff put me off enough to feel like having a play on the Metro.
One thing I noticed is the stations smelled nice, unlike the last time I used the Metro where it smelled like piss.
Have they got air fresheners blasting out, or was I just following nice smelling people?
And if you're wondering, I got off at North Shields to get my free Cooplands breakfast
Sent from my SM-F721B using Tapatalk
(08 Feb 2024, 2:14 pm)Andreos1 Having quite the day there aren't you.
Don't go spoiling yourself anymore. One thing will lead to another and next time, it could be a Toby Carvery breakfast in an exotic part of the world!
(08 Feb 2024, 2:14 pm)Andreos1 Having quite the day there aren't you.
Don't go spoiling yourself anymore. One thing will lead to another and next time, it could be a Toby Carvery breakfast in an exotic part of the world!
