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Gold Standard

 
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28 Oct 2013, 6:37 pm #41
Equally, the opposite could be argued: customers are more likely to notice a bus missing if the frequency is every 30 minutes, rather than a frequently scheduled service every few minutes?
JakeSavage
28 Oct 2013, 6:37 pm #41

Equally, the opposite could be argued: customers are more likely to notice a bus missing if the frequency is every 30 minutes, rather than a frequently scheduled service every few minutes?

Andreos1



14,155
28 Oct 2013, 8:46 pm #42
(28 Oct 2013, 6:37 pm)JakeSavage Equally, the opposite could be argued: customers are more likely to notice a bus missing if the frequency is every 30 minutes, rather than a frequently scheduled service every few minutes?

I'm talking about the core services, concentrated down a particular route.

In the past, 3-4 individual services all met/diverged at a certain point.
The 723 never had the perception the 21 has, because there were other distance and local services which would pick up the slack.

More services along Durham Road in Low Fell just a few years back, offered a range of destinations as well as a greater frequency.
Core routes replaced them, with limited destinations, along with wishy washy Gold Standard promises.
Roadworks in Pity Me, affected 2-3 of the dozen or so services just a few years ago.
Those roadworks would now affect 2/3 of all buses going through Low Fell and the promise goes out of the window.

'Illegitimis non carborundum'
Andreos1
28 Oct 2013, 8:46 pm #42

(28 Oct 2013, 6:37 pm)JakeSavage Equally, the opposite could be argued: customers are more likely to notice a bus missing if the frequency is every 30 minutes, rather than a frequently scheduled service every few minutes?

I'm talking about the core services, concentrated down a particular route.

In the past, 3-4 individual services all met/diverged at a certain point.
The 723 never had the perception the 21 has, because there were other distance and local services which would pick up the slack.

More services along Durham Road in Low Fell just a few years back, offered a range of destinations as well as a greater frequency.
Core routes replaced them, with limited destinations, along with wishy washy Gold Standard promises.
Roadworks in Pity Me, affected 2-3 of the dozen or so services just a few years ago.
Those roadworks would now affect 2/3 of all buses going through Low Fell and the promise goes out of the window.


'Illegitimis non carborundum'

MrFozz

Marxista Fozzski

5,562
29 Oct 2013, 10:44 am #43
(26 Oct 2013, 8:03 pm)Andreos1 How late are these buses when they are stopped short and regulated?

Three services I have been on this week (two of which were gold standard) were at least 10mins late - which is obviously a small percentage.


I have also seen Red Kites, Angels, Prince Bishops and Laser services running in pairs.
Going by the frequency of these services alone, one of them is more than 5 minutes late or 1 minute early.


I have seen various services run short or depart NIS when running late.

Others have problems with their local services.

Staff have complained openly on the fb page of running times.

Granted not all are Gold Standard, but if these services are used as a representative proportion, I struggle to see how this 95% is maintained.

When these buses are regulated, then a service is missed - whether it is a proportion or the entire route
Passengers are left standing - whether the driver gets their break or not.

Making an unrealistic promise about the '95%' and appeasing VOSA by whichever means, doesn't assist the passenger...

Talking about services running in pairs, the 60 and 42 is shocking at times, they often run in pairs, on the 60 I have seen it run in 3's at points with pairs holding up the rear a single number of minutes behind
Edited 29 Oct 2013, 10:45 am by MrFozz.
MrFozz
29 Oct 2013, 10:44 am #43

(26 Oct 2013, 8:03 pm)Andreos1 How late are these buses when they are stopped short and regulated?

Three services I have been on this week (two of which were gold standard) were at least 10mins late - which is obviously a small percentage.


I have also seen Red Kites, Angels, Prince Bishops and Laser services running in pairs.
Going by the frequency of these services alone, one of them is more than 5 minutes late or 1 minute early.


I have seen various services run short or depart NIS when running late.

Others have problems with their local services.

Staff have complained openly on the fb page of running times.

Granted not all are Gold Standard, but if these services are used as a representative proportion, I struggle to see how this 95% is maintained.

When these buses are regulated, then a service is missed - whether it is a proportion or the entire route
Passengers are left standing - whether the driver gets their break or not.

Making an unrealistic promise about the '95%' and appeasing VOSA by whichever means, doesn't assist the passenger...

Talking about services running in pairs, the 60 and 42 is shocking at times, they often run in pairs, on the 60 I have seen it run in 3's at points with pairs holding up the rear a single number of minutes behind

CatsFast101

Unregistered

 
29 Oct 2013, 11:18 am #44
(29 Oct 2013, 10:44 am)fozzovmurton Talking about services running in pairs, the 60 and 42 is shocking at times, they often run in pairs, on the 60 I have seen it run in 3's at points with pairs holding up the rear a single number of minutes behind

The 42 I would argue is worse than the 60. The 60 gets 5 minutes layover at Sunderland & just 1 minute at Parkside, but also gets 1 minute stand-by at Seaham Interchange which can help in lateness. The 42 however only gets 2 minutes stand-by at Sunderland Interchange and then 1 minute at Vicarage Estate. The 42 is one of those services where reliability is really bad I've noticed buses running in pairs much more frequently than the 60/20/56 etc. The 42 runs an every 11 minute timetable after 2:30pm, I assume this is to improve the terrible reliability.

I don't get how GNE can promise this 'Gold Standard' promise of 'Buses can run up to 5 minutes late' when there services don't have that time to make up at interchanges? The X35 is this included in 'Gold Standard'? X35 gets 3 Mins layover at Hartlepool & 4 minutes at Sunderland, but if this service runs exactly 5 minutes late (as is just within 'Gold Standard On Time') it's getting into Sunderland 1 minute after departure and then the four minutes is needed to load passengers on it never leaves on time so an extra two minutes, it's running out 6 Minutes and then there's not much chance to recover. So how is this service ever ment to recover any lateness? Its not.
CatsFast101
29 Oct 2013, 11:18 am #44

(29 Oct 2013, 10:44 am)fozzovmurton Talking about services running in pairs, the 60 and 42 is shocking at times, they often run in pairs, on the 60 I have seen it run in 3's at points with pairs holding up the rear a single number of minutes behind

The 42 I would argue is worse than the 60. The 60 gets 5 minutes layover at Sunderland & just 1 minute at Parkside, but also gets 1 minute stand-by at Seaham Interchange which can help in lateness. The 42 however only gets 2 minutes stand-by at Sunderland Interchange and then 1 minute at Vicarage Estate. The 42 is one of those services where reliability is really bad I've noticed buses running in pairs much more frequently than the 60/20/56 etc. The 42 runs an every 11 minute timetable after 2:30pm, I assume this is to improve the terrible reliability.

I don't get how GNE can promise this 'Gold Standard' promise of 'Buses can run up to 5 minutes late' when there services don't have that time to make up at interchanges? The X35 is this included in 'Gold Standard'? X35 gets 3 Mins layover at Hartlepool & 4 minutes at Sunderland, but if this service runs exactly 5 minutes late (as is just within 'Gold Standard On Time') it's getting into Sunderland 1 minute after departure and then the four minutes is needed to load passengers on it never leaves on time so an extra two minutes, it's running out 6 Minutes and then there's not much chance to recover. So how is this service ever ment to recover any lateness? Its not.

Andreos1



14,155
29 Oct 2013, 1:24 pm #45
(29 Oct 2013, 11:18 am)CatsFast101 The 42 I would argue is worse than the 60. The 60 gets 5 minutes layover at Sunderland & just 1 minute at Parkside, but also gets 1 minute stand-by at Seaham Interchange which can help in lateness. The 42 however only gets 2 minutes stand-by at Sunderland Interchange and then 1 minute at Vicarage Estate. The 42 is one of those services where reliability is really bad I've noticed buses running in pairs much more frequently than the 60/20/56 etc. The 42 runs an every 11 minute timetable after 2:30pm, I assume this is to improve the terrible reliability.

I don't get how GNE can promise this 'Gold Standard' promise of 'Buses can run up to 5 minutes late' when there services don't have that time to make up at interchanges? The X35 is this included in 'Gold Standard'? X35 gets 3 Mins layover at Hartlepool & 4 minutes at Sunderland, but if this service runs exactly 5 minutes late (as is just within 'Gold Standard On Time') it's getting into Sunderland 1 minute after departure and then the four minutes is needed to load passengers on it never leaves on time so an extra two minutes, it's running out 6 Minutes and then there's not much chance to recover. So how is this service ever ment to recover any lateness? Its not.

and a perfect example of how a gold standard isn't worth the paper it is written on.

'Illegitimis non carborundum'
Andreos1
29 Oct 2013, 1:24 pm #45

(29 Oct 2013, 11:18 am)CatsFast101 The 42 I would argue is worse than the 60. The 60 gets 5 minutes layover at Sunderland & just 1 minute at Parkside, but also gets 1 minute stand-by at Seaham Interchange which can help in lateness. The 42 however only gets 2 minutes stand-by at Sunderland Interchange and then 1 minute at Vicarage Estate. The 42 is one of those services where reliability is really bad I've noticed buses running in pairs much more frequently than the 60/20/56 etc. The 42 runs an every 11 minute timetable after 2:30pm, I assume this is to improve the terrible reliability.

I don't get how GNE can promise this 'Gold Standard' promise of 'Buses can run up to 5 minutes late' when there services don't have that time to make up at interchanges? The X35 is this included in 'Gold Standard'? X35 gets 3 Mins layover at Hartlepool & 4 minutes at Sunderland, but if this service runs exactly 5 minutes late (as is just within 'Gold Standard On Time') it's getting into Sunderland 1 minute after departure and then the four minutes is needed to load passengers on it never leaves on time so an extra two minutes, it's running out 6 Minutes and then there's not much chance to recover. So how is this service ever ment to recover any lateness? Its not.

and a perfect example of how a gold standard isn't worth the paper it is written on.


'Illegitimis non carborundum'

Adrian



9,566
01 Nov 2013, 5:55 pm #46
Yesterday I seen one 56 going towards Gateshead Interchange from Sunderland NIS, and seen another coming from Gateshead Interchange towards Sunderland NIS. Both around 18.00.

Today I seen two 56 going towards Gateshead Interchange from Sunderland within 5 mins of each other, at around 17.00. Both NIS.

All four buses looked like they had a handful of passengers on, so I can only assume they were being "regulated".

Does all use of 'Not in Service' get reported on?

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Adrian
01 Nov 2013, 5:55 pm #46

Yesterday I seen one 56 going towards Gateshead Interchange from Sunderland NIS, and seen another coming from Gateshead Interchange towards Sunderland NIS. Both around 18.00.

Today I seen two 56 going towards Gateshead Interchange from Sunderland within 5 mins of each other, at around 17.00. Both NIS.

All four buses looked like they had a handful of passengers on, so I can only assume they were being "regulated".

Does all use of 'Not in Service' get reported on?


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Andreos1



14,155
01 Nov 2013, 6:02 pm #47
(01 Nov 2013, 5:55 pm)aureolin Yesterday I seen one 56 going towards Gateshead Interchange from Sunderland NIS, and seen another coming from Gateshead Interchange towards Sunderland NIS. Both around 18.00.

Today I seen two 56 going towards Gateshead Interchange from Sunderland within 5 mins of each other, at around 17.00. Both NIS.

All four buses looked like they had a handful of passengers on, so I can only assume they were being "regulated".

Does all use of 'Not in Service' get reported on?

I'm on my phone, so it is a faff downloading documents from the internet, to then upload back on here.
Just googled 'vosa procedures for reporting pcv punctuality' and there are some interesting documents available to view.

'Illegitimis non carborundum'
Andreos1
01 Nov 2013, 6:02 pm #47

(01 Nov 2013, 5:55 pm)aureolin Yesterday I seen one 56 going towards Gateshead Interchange from Sunderland NIS, and seen another coming from Gateshead Interchange towards Sunderland NIS. Both around 18.00.

Today I seen two 56 going towards Gateshead Interchange from Sunderland within 5 mins of each other, at around 17.00. Both NIS.

All four buses looked like they had a handful of passengers on, so I can only assume they were being "regulated".

Does all use of 'Not in Service' get reported on?

I'm on my phone, so it is a faff downloading documents from the internet, to then upload back on here.
Just googled 'vosa procedures for reporting pcv punctuality' and there are some interesting documents available to view.


'Illegitimis non carborundum'

Dan

Site Administrator

18,099
01 Nov 2013, 6:10 pm #48
(01 Nov 2013, 6:02 pm)Andreos1 I'm on my phone, so it is a faff downloading documents from the internet, to then upload back on here.
Just googled 'vosa procedures for reporting pcv punctuality' and there are some interesting documents available to view.

For those wanting a direct download link (it's a massive document and you can't attach it as an attachment on here as a result), click here.
Dan
01 Nov 2013, 6:10 pm #48

(01 Nov 2013, 6:02 pm)Andreos1 I'm on my phone, so it is a faff downloading documents from the internet, to then upload back on here.
Just googled 'vosa procedures for reporting pcv punctuality' and there are some interesting documents available to view.

For those wanting a direct download link (it's a massive document and you can't attach it as an attachment on here as a result), click here.

Adrian



9,566
01 Nov 2013, 6:40 pm #49
(01 Nov 2013, 6:10 pm)Dan For those wanting a direct download link (it's a massive document and you can't attach it as an attachment on here as a result), click here.

I've PDF'd the document (now less than 1MB!) so it can be uploaded here. Handy for archive purposes.
Attached Files
.pdf
bus-punctuality-partnerships-guidance (1).pdf
Size: 873.99 KB / Downloads: 24

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Adrian
01 Nov 2013, 6:40 pm #49

(01 Nov 2013, 6:10 pm)Dan For those wanting a direct download link (it's a massive document and you can't attach it as an attachment on here as a result), click here.

I've PDF'd the document (now less than 1MB!) so it can be uploaded here. Handy for archive purposes.

Attached Files
.pdf
bus-punctuality-partnerships-guidance (1).pdf
Size: 873.99 KB / Downloads: 24

Forum Moderator | Find NEB on facebook

Andreos1



14,155
05 Dec 2013, 11:14 am #50
Can anyone confirm or provide a list of the GNE Gold Standard routes please?

'Illegitimis non carborundum'
Andreos1
05 Dec 2013, 11:14 am #50

Can anyone confirm or provide a list of the GNE Gold Standard routes please?


'Illegitimis non carborundum'

Dan

Site Administrator

18,099
05 Dec 2013, 11:59 am #51
(05 Dec 2013, 11:14 am)andreos1 Can anyone confirm or provide a list of the GNE Gold Standard routes please?

I think it's a redundant scheme nowadays. The advantages of the Gold Standard scheme that still exist on services are now available on most services (owing to large fleet investment, subsequently allowing for a large amount of cascades/withdrawals).
Dan
05 Dec 2013, 11:59 am #51

(05 Dec 2013, 11:14 am)andreos1 Can anyone confirm or provide a list of the GNE Gold Standard routes please?

I think it's a redundant scheme nowadays. The advantages of the Gold Standard scheme that still exist on services are now available on most services (owing to large fleet investment, subsequently allowing for a large amount of cascades/withdrawals).

Andreos1



14,155
05 Dec 2013, 12:23 pm #52
(05 Dec 2013, 11:59 am)Dan I think it's a redundant scheme nowadays. The advantages of the Gold Standard scheme that still exist on services are now available on most services (owing to large fleet investment, subsequently allowing for a large amount of cascades/withdrawals).

They're still advertising it...

'Illegitimis non carborundum'
Andreos1
05 Dec 2013, 12:23 pm #52

(05 Dec 2013, 11:59 am)Dan I think it's a redundant scheme nowadays. The advantages of the Gold Standard scheme that still exist on services are now available on most services (owing to large fleet investment, subsequently allowing for a large amount of cascades/withdrawals).

They're still advertising it...


'Illegitimis non carborundum'

Dan

Site Administrator

18,099
05 Dec 2013, 12:29 pm #53
(05 Dec 2013, 12:23 pm)andreos1 They're still advertising it...

Where have they advertised it as of late?
They have it on their website still, but I haven't seen the page referenced/updated for quite a while now...

The website isn't exactly great... full of outdated information and I find it isn't exactly great to look at too.
Dan
05 Dec 2013, 12:29 pm #53

(05 Dec 2013, 12:23 pm)andreos1 They're still advertising it...

Where have they advertised it as of late?
They have it on their website still, but I haven't seen the page referenced/updated for quite a while now...

The website isn't exactly great... full of outdated information and I find it isn't exactly great to look at too.

Andreos1



14,155
05 Dec 2013, 2:00 pm #54
(05 Dec 2013, 12:29 pm)Dan Where have they advertised it as of late?
They have it on their website still, but I haven't seen the page referenced/updated for quite a while now...

The website isn't exactly great... full of outdated information and I find it isn't exactly great to look at too.

As far as I'm aware - just there, on their website.

Agree, the website isn't too good.
But if they are advertising it on their website - then the promise needs to be maintained.

If the Gold Standard doesn't exist any more or is redundant, then they need to take it off the website.

To be honest, apart from the fixtures and fittings on a bus, how much of the promise was ever maintained?

Quote:Gold Standard
At least 95 % of our journeys will run ‘on time’ – that’s no more than 5 minutes late or 1 minute early

Open reporting of our punctuality and
reliability performance to customers

We will do our utmost to communicate
to customers when disruption to service
occurs

If events within our control lead to a
journey being delayed by 20 minutes or
more we will refund the fare via voucher
of BuzzFare ticket

If events within our control mean no
journey is provided within 30 minutes of
schedule time we would refund the cost
of a taxi

The Gold Standard in safe, clean comfortable buses

State of the art buses professionally
maintained to the highest standards

Full cctv coverage and recording

Information screens (not X9 or X10)

Comfortable seats for all and priority
seating and a wheelchair bay for elderly
and disabled customers Regular cleaning every night and during
the day.

The Gold Standard working with you Comprehensive guides with full timetable and route map, delivered door to door at key areas along the route, at least 14 days ahead of any changes.

Service updates and news of special offers

Regular ‘Open Line’ sessions every Wednesday

Living yards from a bus stop on a Gold Standard route and using it on a regular basis, I saw very little difference between this and non Gold Standard routes, apart from vehicles used.

'Illegitimis non carborundum'
Andreos1
05 Dec 2013, 2:00 pm #54

(05 Dec 2013, 12:29 pm)Dan Where have they advertised it as of late?
They have it on their website still, but I haven't seen the page referenced/updated for quite a while now...

The website isn't exactly great... full of outdated information and I find it isn't exactly great to look at too.

As far as I'm aware - just there, on their website.

Agree, the website isn't too good.
But if they are advertising it on their website - then the promise needs to be maintained.

If the Gold Standard doesn't exist any more or is redundant, then they need to take it off the website.

To be honest, apart from the fixtures and fittings on a bus, how much of the promise was ever maintained?

Quote:Gold Standard
At least 95 % of our journeys will run ‘on time’ – that’s no more than 5 minutes late or 1 minute early

Open reporting of our punctuality and
reliability performance to customers

We will do our utmost to communicate
to customers when disruption to service
occurs

If events within our control lead to a
journey being delayed by 20 minutes or
more we will refund the fare via voucher
of BuzzFare ticket

If events within our control mean no
journey is provided within 30 minutes of
schedule time we would refund the cost
of a taxi

The Gold Standard in safe, clean comfortable buses

State of the art buses professionally
maintained to the highest standards

Full cctv coverage and recording

Information screens (not X9 or X10)

Comfortable seats for all and priority
seating and a wheelchair bay for elderly
and disabled customers Regular cleaning every night and during
the day.

The Gold Standard working with you Comprehensive guides with full timetable and route map, delivered door to door at key areas along the route, at least 14 days ahead of any changes.

Service updates and news of special offers

Regular ‘Open Line’ sessions every Wednesday

Living yards from a bus stop on a Gold Standard route and using it on a regular basis, I saw very little difference between this and non Gold Standard routes, apart from vehicles used.


'Illegitimis non carborundum'

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