North East Buses

Coastliner streetlite on 46

(14 Feb 2016, 3:20 pm)dannygee wrote [ -> ]Coastliner streetlite on 46

You've got to expect these things when they are Jesmond based.

(14 Feb 2016, 3:37 pm)Davie wrote [ -> ]You've got to expect these things when they are Jesmond based.

Or Blyth.

Also the fact it's a Sunday, reduced PVR requirements on the 306/308 means there's spare Streetlites, so why not use them on other work instead of keeping them in on Sundays (same way that Redcar depot now use their Sapphire Streetlites on 3/81 and 63/22/64a on Sundays as well as Pulsars on 63/22/64a).

(14 Feb 2016, 3:43 pm)Kuyoyo wrote [ -> ]Also the fact it's a Sunday, reduced PVR requirements on the 306/308 means there's spare Streetlites, so why not use them on other work instead of keeping them in on Sundays (same way that Redcar depot now use their Sapphire Streetlites on 3/81 and 63/22/64a on Sundays as well as Pulsars on 63/22/64a).

Because they are route branded for service 306.

(14 Feb 2016, 3:44 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]Because they are route branded for service 306.

Red Kite Streetlite's are 45/6 branded but do the X70 or used to.

(14 Feb 2016, 3:45 pm)DanPicken wrote [ -> ]Red Kite Streetlite's are 45/6 branded but do the X70 or used to.

Yes, and the Streetlites and Solos are allocated to just about every service at Stanley on evenings and Sundays.

Just because Go North East do it, does not justify Arriva doing it, and I have voiced my opinions on scheduled 'wrong brand' allocations in the past.

(14 Feb 2016, 3:45 pm)DanPicken wrote [ -> ]Red Kite Streetlite's are 45/6 branded but do the X70 or used to.

They do operate service X71 on Sundays - X70 doesnt run.

(14 Feb 2016, 3:44 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]Because they are route branded for service 306.

So you'd rather Jesmond sent fuel-heavy B10BLEs out alongside Pulsars on Sundays rather than the Streetlites just because the Streetlites are branded?

(14 Feb 2016, 3:51 pm)Kuyoyo wrote [ -> ]So you'd rather Jesmond sent fuel-heavy B10BLEs out alongside Pulsars on Sundays rather than the Streetlites just because the Streetlites are branded?

Yes.

(14 Feb 2016, 3:52 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]Yes.

But Go North East try and cut costs by using low-fuel consumption vehicles as opposed to heavy drinkers, so why can't Arriva do it when said vehicles aren't required as part of the PVR on their branded routes?

(14 Feb 2016, 3:44 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]Because they are route branded for service 306.

Pretty sure Go North East do the same thing on a Evening & on Sundays, I will use the following examples, Simplicity Branded Optare Versa on the 38C, or how about a Drifter Streetlite on the 61, or a Nexus Solo SR on the 85/86, we know these workings occur as PVRs are significantly lower, along with the specified Vehicles being more Fuel Efficient than the Vehicles usually allocated and thus reduce running costs, therefore I cannot see why you have an issue with Arriva putting more Fuel Efficient on there Services also, if said Vehicles are in spare in the Depot all day.

What does the official Jesmond allocation document say about this allocation? If it says B10s and Pulsars, then it should be B10s and Pulsars, not Streetlites based on fuel efficiency.

(14 Feb 2016, 3:56 pm)R852 PRG wrote [ -> ]But Go North East try and cut costs by using low-fuel consumption vehicles as opposed to heavy drinkers, so why can't Arriva do it when said vehicles aren't required as part of the PVR on their branded routes?

Go North East's changes to the Stanley network in October 2015 saw evening and Sunday allocations revised to that they primarily operated with fuel-efficient Optare Solos and Wright Streetlites, which also qualify for an enhanced rate of BSOG payment. I completely understand the logistics behind these allocations (so you needn't attempt to inform me), and, as I said before, I voiced my opinions on branding going out of the window by 6pm with regards to Go North East's examples of this happening at the time of the aforementioned service revisions.

The whole allocation on a evening/weekend always brings the debate of branding up.

To me, whats ever branded, should be on the route, even if the route uses a Cadet etc.

Isn't that the whole point in branding?

(14 Feb 2016, 3:50 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]Yes, and the Streetlites and Solos are allocated to just about every service at Stanley on evenings and Sundays.

Just because Go North East do it, does not justify Arriva doing it, and I have voiced my opinions on scheduled 'wrong brand' allocations in the past.

You've just proved the point of Arriva doing it because they're more efficient.

Same can be said at Darlington, Frequenta 2 EcoCitys on 1B and 5A (although I think this has something to do with the gas subsidy or something), Frequenta 3/3A/3B Solos do the 5A on evenings due to it interworking with the 3. Frequenta 3/3A/3B was on the 8 this afternoon, normally a Solo on a Sunday, to put the daytime allocation of a Pulsar on that route would certainly not make the service financially viable, think it barely is with Solos!

(14 Feb 2016, 4:06 pm)DanPicken wrote [ -> ]You've just proved the point of Arriva doing it because they're more efficient.

Difference is, has arriva planned to do it?

(14 Feb 2016, 4:04 pm)Michael wrote [ -> ]The whole allocation on a evening/weekend always brings the debate of branding up.

To me, whats ever branded, should be on the route, even if the route uses a Cadet etc.

Isn't that the whole point in branding?

Exactly, Michael.

One of the main reasons bus operators have introduced route branding is so that customers can identify their service as it approaches, without having to rely on the more traditional method of reading the destination display.

Not forgetting the 'added extras' that are often on route-branded vehicles, such as free Wi-Fi and leather seats. More or less since the introduction of Streetlites to the 306 service, one weekday board has been covered by a corporate liveried vehicle (originally a VDL Pulsar, now a Volvo B7TL). As a result, the 'spare' Streetlite is then allocated to a standard specification service at Jesmond.

The Commercial Department made this decision a long time ago - why hasn't one Streetlite had its sub-branding for service 306 removed? It beggars belief, and makes a complete mockery of route branding, as well as all of the marketing when the 306 service was launched.

As most of you know; I'm hugely in favour of route branding, but I really cannot support evening and Sunday allocations going out of the window, even if it does allow a cost-saving. If it must be done, the operator should inform customers in the timetable where there are instances of 'wrong brand' allocations. Go North East has just started doing this, and it's a step in the right direction.

(14 Feb 2016, 4:06 pm)DanPicken wrote [ -> ]You've just proved the point of Arriva doing it because they're more efficient.

At what point did I say I was unaware of the reasons behind the allocation?

(14 Feb 2016, 4:08 pm)S813 FVK wrote [ -> ]Difference is, has arriva planned to do it?

Nothing on Flickr but it makes sense to use more efficient buses.

(14 Feb 2016, 3:52 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]Yes.

Don't you usually bang on about the costs of running a company? Is it a different story when Arriva is involved?

(14 Feb 2016, 4:38 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]Don't you usually bang on about the costs of running a company? Is it a different story when Arriva is involved?

Can you point me in the right direction to where I have supported Go North East's scheduled 'wrong brand' allocations in the past? I have justified it, but always maintained that I disagree with it, which is exactly what I've done in this thread too. Certainly not a different story depending on the operator.

I think the point is being missed here. Branded vehicles off route cause confusion of customers, not to mention that it looks crap. That is irrespective of who is running it, what the reasons for doing it are, or what vehicle is being used.

You brand something because you want a customer to look out for that striking brand. So it's a poor and confusing customer experience to then go and shove it on another route to save a bit of cash. Not to mention that it's got the number of the route and destination points on the side of it!

(14 Feb 2016, 4:02 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]Go North East's changes to the Stanley network in October 2015 saw evening and Sunday allocations revised to that they primarily operated with fuel-efficient Optare Solos and Wright Streetlites, which also qualify for an enhanced rate of BSOG payment. I completely understand the logistics behind these allocations (so you needn't attempt to inform me), and, as I said before, I voiced my opinions on branding going out of the window by 6pm with regards to Go North East's examples of this happening at the time of the aforementioned service revisions.

Mint.

(14 Feb 2016, 4:47 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]I think the point is being missed here. Branded vehicles off route cause confusion of customers, not to mention that it looks crap. That is irrespective of who is running it, what the reasons for doing it are, or what vehicle is being used.

You brand something because you want a customer to look out for that striking brand. So it's a poor and confusing customer experience to then go and shove it on another route to save a bit of cash. Not to mention that it's got the number of the route and destination points on the side of it!

Got to agree here, in Darlington this afternoon I observed the following branded buses on wrong branded routes.

Frequenta 2 EcoCitys: 1B, 5A and Morton Park 12's.
Frequenta 3/3A/3B: 4 (interworks with the 3) and 8.
Frequenta 9/10: Hurworth 12's and X75.
Sapphire 7 Pulsar: 19 (interworks with the 7).

Obviously I get why the above are done, but it looks sloppy and unprofessional.

(14 Feb 2016, 4:54 pm)Jimmi wrote [ -> ]Got to agree here, in Darlington this afternoon I observed the following branded buses on wrong branded routes.

Frequenta 2 EcoCitys: 1B, 5A and Morton Park 12's.
Frequenta 3/3A/3B: 4 (interworks with the 3) and 8.
Frequenta 9/10: Hurworth 12's and X75.
Sapphire 7 Pulsar: 19 (interworks with the 7).

Obviously I get why the above are done, but it looks sloppy and unprofessional.

On the subject of route branding Arriva have used it in the past on the 's' reg darts and prestiges and later on the Darlington Town Network e.g. Firthmoor Flyer and so should have known better when Sapphire and Max were introduced that there would be interworking and every chance of buses being on the incorrect services.I agree that there was scope to promote the up market benefits of the upgraded buses but surely promoting them as Sparkle or Quick Links would have been far enough to go and a better bus off service could be classed as a bonus and the buses being only generic they could be swopped as necessary.Destinations could be used as a route branding tool

(14 Feb 2016, 6:32 pm)upt50k wrote [ -> ]On the subject of route branding Arriva have used it in the past on the 's' reg darts and prestiges and later on the Darlington Town Network e.g. Firthmoor Flyer and so should have known better when Sapphire and Max were introduced that there would be interworking and every chance of buses being on the incorrect services.I agree that there was scope to promote the up market benefits of the upgraded buses but surely promoting them as Sparkle or Quick Links would have been far enough to go and a better bus off service could be classed as a bonus and the buses being only generic they could be swopped as necessary.Destinations could be used as a route branding tool

Thing with Sapphire and MAX interworking is when the 7 went Sapphire they stopped it interworking with the 5A on evenings and Sundays with the 7 becoming standalone on a night on a more tight but achievable timetable and on Sundays it just did driver shuttles to/from Faverdale depot, but as part of fairly recent service changes in order to save resources it seemed the 7 started interworking with the 19 and now we have Frequenta's appearing on non town work on Sundays making things look stupid as well. The timetable and allocations of the 19 has changed so much since Arriva started operating the 19 in 2012 I'm surprised that some of the passengers can keep up, dare bet it'll change again soon. Oh God the previous Darlington Town brand was a farce as well, every morning the 19 that ran to/from Aycliffe (before Scarlet Band took over the service) would be operated by a service 11 branded bus (or sometimes a service 2 bus) and everytime something broke down on a out of town route they would take a town bus off and put it on the non town route as a replacement, frequently saw Firth Moor Flyers on the 21 and X66. Now the same is happening with Frequenta, think instead of generic Frequenta's they should have left them in the standard livery, so at least they wouldn't stick out like a sore thumb on the likes of the Sunday 8's or as a breakdown replacement.

Vehicles appearing off route has happened for years.
The introduction and then obsession towards branding see ms to have emphasised it even more though.
In a time of corporate cost-cutting and money saving, the chances are that it will continue to happen.

The flip side of the coin, is the negative impact on vehicle and the brand.

There was discussion a good while back about Deptford Versa's and how they were being worked into the ground.
Weekday trips out and then allocated runs on a Sunday on what I think was 26A, 2's and 60 (?).
In addition to nights out on the N56.

Whilst the fuel costs may have looked good and they tied in with a Sunday tender, what was the longer term damage to the vehicles?

As an example/comparison - the original GNE Solo's at Washington were out all dat and night on the 'W' locals.
On a Sunday, they worked the 194. Giving the branded Renowns a day off.

A few years prior to that, branded Lynxes left over from a smaller 194 (and non-existent 294) PVR were found on a Sunday 188.

They seem to have stopped it now, but all of this makes the habit that ANE had, through the Autumn and start of Winter, of putting corporate liveried pulsars on the sapphire 22 on a Sunday, even more nonsensical.

I have noticed that arriva still operate little darts on 3535a Thursday NK05 GVY Friday NK55 MYT Saturday NK55 MYR so I if this a constant appearance