(17 Sep 2020, 10:33 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]Some people are extremely stupid though and don't bother to read destinations properly. That wasn't a comment directed at you, this was directed at the people who can't read a basic timetable and those who get on a 21 to Chester Le Street and ask if it goes to Durham for 2 examples. There will be some idiots who see X10 and think oh that must be the 10 and it doesn't help when GNE add X's to routes for no reason bar branding reasons (X5, X15, X45, X46, X47). There's enough numbers around there's no need for a 1 and X1, 10 and X10 when it's not needed.
That's a valid point with the 1 and one I didn't think of, maybe only use it where there is no service with the same number so with the 10's it could work.
You misinterpretated the comment on using the same numbers I meant in the sense that in the whole of GNE, numbers shouldn't duplicate anywhere so every route should be different, the same with Arriva Northumbria / North East (they're two different companies as they're not connected) and Stagecoach's each little area nor should there be an express of a bus route has a local service of the same number. There certainly should be no duplicates in the same bus station or town though but the fact GNE have a 57 in Gateshead and Arriva have a 57 in Whitley then there's no issue there as their far enough apart or even the example such as the GNE 47 and Stagecoach X47 in Eldon Square (the two X47's is stupid though). It wouldn't be sensible to ban the same number everywhere in the North East.
I'm fairly certain I didn't misinterpret. Provided the number and ultimate destination combined is different i.e. from Sunderland city centre one could catch a 23 to Dene Estate, Thorney Close or Hartlepool or one could get a 55, X6 or X7 to Peterlee. Renumbering the 10 from Newcastle so it doesn't look to similarly numbered to the X10 doesn't matter. They go in completely opposite directions and nobody could possibly get confused between them unless they are too thick or ingnorant to figure that out. If somebody can't or doesn't want to comprehend that not all buses go to the same places, then no elaberate numbering system will make a scrap of difference.
I was astonded during last years Arriva strike, how many people on Facebook couldn't grasp that the handful of buses that were running would stop between the listed timing points - as the normally would - despite stating this at the top of the post. No amount of telling some of them, "yes it will stop outside your house like it usually does" would sink in.
(17 Sep 2020, 12:06 pm)tcts24 wrote [ -> ]I'm fairly certain I didn't misinterpret. Provided the number and ultimate destination combined is different i.e. from Sunderland city centre one could catch a 23 to Dene Estate, Thorney Close or Hartlepool or one could get a 55, X6 or X7 to Peterlee. Renumbering the 10 from Newcastle so it doesn't look to similarly numbered to the X10 doesn't matter. They go in completely opposite directions and nobody could possibly get confused between them unless they are too thick or ingnorant to figure that out. If somebody can't or doesn't want to comprehend that not all buses go to the same places, then no elaberate numbering system will make a scrap of difference.
I was astonded during last years Arriva strike, how many people on Facebook couldn't grasp that the handful of buses that were running would stop between the listed timing points - as the normally would - despite stating this at the top of the post. No amount of telling some of them, "yes it will stop outside your house like it usually does" would sink in.
That's a fair point but for me the 10, X10 etc is/should be the same route. I understand what your saying about people are stupid enough to read it but each number should represent it's own route. So if there is a 10, then the X10 is an express version of that bus in the same sense that the 10B is a variation of the 10.
Personally the bus route should be 1 - 99. Anything with an X at the front is either express if there is no corrosponding number or if there is then it's an express version of that bus route the same sense than any variations of A and B's must have some common section (don't believe that's an issue up here). I'm anal when it comes to stuff like though to be fair.
Examples being the 21 is the stopper service, X21 is an express variation. The 20 is the stopper service the X20 is the express variation. The 63 to Killingworth is the stopper version, the X63 is the express version if that makes sense. It shouldn't and won't be confusing for the majority of people but as you've said with the Arriva strikes some people are a bit stupid lets say. There's a few posters on here who keep suggesting ideas of new variations of routes in particually the Q3 for quicker routes from end to end missing the point it's about the bits inbetween so it's not just those who never use buses who don't seem to grasp there's points between neither.
One thing I will say to give credit though is we don't have the stupid C routes anymore as that was confusing for passengers so some good has come from the changes.
With reference to the comment about not reading destinations properly:
A friend of mine bought a minibus from the local bus company, intending to do it up as a camper van. Just before Christmas, we decorated it with light, trees and baubles, set the destination blind to read "Straight to Cuba", no route number, and drove it along our town's High Street, past all the bus stops. We were astonished just how many people stepped out to try and board - remember, no route number and a silly destination!
(17 Sep 2020, 12:06 pm)tcts24 wrote [ -> ]I'm fairly certain I didn't misinterpret. Provided the number and ultimate destination combined is different i.e. from Sunderland city centre one could catch a 23 to Dene Estate, Thorney Close or Hartlepool or one could get a 55, X6 or X7 to Peterlee. Renumbering the 10 from Newcastle so it doesn't look to similarly numbered to the X10 doesn't matter. They go in completely opposite directions and nobody could possibly get confused between them unless they are too thick or ingnorant to figure that out. If somebody can't or doesn't want to comprehend that not all buses go to the same places, then no elaberate numbering system will make a scrap of difference.
I was astonded during last years Arriva strike, how many people on Facebook couldn't grasp that the handful of buses that were running would stop between the listed timing points - as the normally would - despite stating this at the top of the post. No amount of telling some of them, "yes it will stop outside your house like it usually does" would sink in.
People are thick and ignorant, though. Surely it would be in the bus companies interest to make it as simple as they possibly can?
I totally agree with what you're saying about how people should realise that because a bus has a similar number to another one doesn't automatically mean it goes to the same place, some people just won't think properly.
Responses to Facebook posts are indeed a great example of this, with people regularly responding to GNE posts by asking a question that has either already been answered or would take them about five seconds to look up on their website.
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(17 Sep 2020, 5:59 pm)Ianthegoon wrote [ -> ]With reference to the comment about not reading destinations properly:
A friend of mine bought a minibus from the local bus company, intending to do it up as a camper van. Just before Christmas, we decorated it with light, trees and baubles, set the destination blind to read "Straight to Cuba", no route number, and drove it along our town's High Street, past all the bus stops. We were astonished just how many people stepped out to try and board - remember, no route number and a silly destination!
When I driver training in a bus clearly marked front to rear driver under instruction, whilst we were parked a gentleman got on and when told we were not in service hurled abuse at us that he needed to get to the hospital for an appointment!
[quote="Storx" pid='248408' dateline='1600277069
In terms of the 10, I quite like the way Trent Barton have done it for their 'nines' routes where it's 9.1 and 9.3 (used to be a 9.2 which got scrapped - don't have the gap). Could work well for the 10's 10.1 to Hexham, 10.2 for the 10A and 10.3 for the 10B
[/quote]
Why is this any different or any better than using 10, 10A & 10B ?
Maybe to have the XLines routes re-blinded as "XL10" or XL47 to separate the brand further and avoid confusion, I think it would be quite different to anything anyone would have ever seen on their blinds too.
I think collectively, all the operators could come together and amicably agree to note have duplicates, its quite ridiculous, you have a 1 to Whitley Bay and a 1 to Cobalt both using the same road. If someone asks you if the 1 goes to Cobalt, you'd have to ask them which 1?! I know its a pipe dream but duplicate numbers should be a thing of the past. Trying to drive up patronage is as much about simplifying the customer experience as it is "jazzing it up". Reminds me of the 42 in Manchester years back which had; whereby you had to get the correct ticket for the bus that was coming and there were well over 5 operators on that route.
I have to agree with Streetdeckfan too in regards to the 10A, can't they renumber the 10A to the 11. From an enthusiast point of view, the 45/46/47 shouldn't be XLines but I do see the business case for it, they spend a lot of their time travelling on the 40/50mph A694 with far spaced out stops, they're also the quickest (only) way to the parts of town they serve.
(18 Sep 2020, 1:53 am)Big O wrote [ -> ]Maybe to have the XLines routes re-blinded as "XL10" or XL47 to separate the brand further and avoid confusion, I think it would be quite different to anything anyone would have ever seen on their blinds too.
I think collectively, all the operators could come together and amicably agree to note have duplicates, its quite ridiculous, you have a 1 to Whitley Bay and a 1 to Cobalt both using the same road. If someone asks you if the 1 goes to Cobalt, you'd have to ask them which 1?! I know its a pipe dream but duplicate numbers should be a thing of the past. Trying to drive up patronage is as much about simplifying the customer experience as it is "jazzing it up". Reminds me of the 42 in Manchester years back which had; whereby you had to get the correct ticket for the bus that was coming and there were well over 5 operators on that route.
I have to agree with Streetdeckfan too in regards to the 10A, can't they renumber the 10A to the 11. From an enthusiast point of view, the 45/46/47 shouldn't be XLines but I do see the business case for it, they spend a lot of their time travelling on the 40/50mph A694 with far spaced out stops, they're also the quickest (only) way to the parts of town they serve.
Not sure if it ran exactly the same route, but I'm fairly certain the 10A replaced the 11!
(18 Sep 2020, 2:02 am)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]Not sure if it ran exactly the same route, but I'm fairly certain the 10A replaced the 11!
Just the Blackhall Mill to Rockwood Hill section.
The rest of the route from Rockwood Hill was the originally the 10 before it was diverted to Hexham.
(18 Sep 2020, 1:19 am)Bazza wrote [ -> ]Why is this any different or any better than using 10, 10A & 10B ?
Just personally think it looks better and it gives the idea that all three routes are as important as each other and go to different places. When you use A and B I'd think of them to be variations of a route ie go a different way as others have said but end in the same place or that the 10 is the main route and the A and B are occasional diversions which are infrequent and unimportant. Just differentiates it a bit to show they don't do that. But because of the 10.X it also shows that there is a common section at the same time.
Its also quite unique and would look good for the 10 branding in similar sense to 'The Nines'.
(18 Sep 2020, 7:30 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]Just personally think it looks better and it gives the idea that all three routes are as important as each other and go to different places. When you use A and B I'd think of them to be variations of a route ie go a different way as others have said but end in the same place or that the 10 is the main route and the A and B are occasional diversions which are infrequent and unimportant. Just differentiates it a bit to show they don't do that. But because of the 10.X it also shows that there is a common section at the same time.
Its also quite unique and would look good for the 10 branding in similar sense to 'The Nines'.
I can see your point having A or B next to the number should be for services that are only slightly different in route and start/ end in the same place. Was they any reason why Go North East changed the service number to the 10 in the first place when 602 was a good enough service number which stood out and still could have had unique branding.
(19 Sep 2020, 5:05 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote [ -> ]Hexham to Stanhope/Crook
I suggested a route like that earlier, Hexham to Bishop Auckland, operating via Consett and Crook along the A68.
The only issue is there's sod all along the route so it really would be a point to point service.
(19 Sep 2020, 5:05 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote [ -> ]Hexham to Stanhope/Crook
I did think you could combine the upper Weardale 101 and GNE 688 routes as Cowshill is only a few miles from Allenheads although getting two councils to support the same service likely be a challenge especially with both currently being contracted to two different operators atm.
Could there be any scope in extending Team Valley works into Newcastle.
(19 Sep 2020, 9:54 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote [ -> ]Could there be any scope in extending Team Valley works into Newcastle.
I think send the 93 and 94 over there.
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(20 Sep 2020, 10:55 am)big mac wrote [ -> ]I think send the 93 and 94 over there.
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New Services X3/X3A: Sunderland - Southwick - Enterprise Park - Castletown - Waterview Park - Teal Farm - Peel Retail Park - Suglrave - Concord - Washington Galleries - Team Valley (X3A) - Metrocentre - Newcastle
Revised Service 29: Newcastle - Gateshead - Bensham - Saltwell Park - Low Fell - Kibblesworth - Birtley
New Service 29A :Newcasstle - Gateshead - Q.E Hospital - Wrekenton - Birtley - Barley Mow - Portobello]
Revised Service 33: Increase to 15 Minutes, Merge with Nexus 37 (33A) & 35 Between East Herrington & Houghton (33B, Giving 3 bph along with 35/35A). If you look at it Section between sunderland and houghton has gone down from 6 GNE buses to just 2
(20 Sep 2020, 10:55 am)big mac wrote [ -> ]I think send the 93 and 94 over there.
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93/94 serves Gateshead Quays, Newcastle is a short walk away or a short bus ride on the Q1/Q2 services. No reason to extend the 93/94. Workers service 941 links Newcastle and Team Valley via the Metrocentre. GNE should operate a service Newcastle - Metrocentre - Team Valley, but not via the West End of Newcastle like the 941 service.
The 33 service in Sunderland has been messed about enough. I suggest it stays as close to the original 133 as possible. Messing around with it , alienates the passenger.