North East Buses

(02 Apr 2020, 9:55 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Yeah they were, the East Lancs Cityzens (think that's spelt right). Guessing it was just an East Lancs problem then, never been on the Omnidekka's or I'm guessing the Lolynes you meant there before. The mix of carpet (which was on the side panels) and water wasn't a particular very good combination.


Talking about leaks I can remember one of them which used to literally have a stream of water pouring behind one of the panels next the fire exit door. Mind some of the VDL's are having the same issue lately so could be a Blyth thing.

It's amazing that a few of them we're still on the road in 2017 (N385OTY) and one of them is currently SORN (N392OTY) rather than Not Taxed / Scrapped the state they were when they left Arriva in 2009.

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Also on a different subject I'm just curious what's the reason why bus companies are withdrawing / delicencing buses because of Covid 19? Is there some form of cost of having a bus even if you don't use it in terms of a licence that's monthly etc? I always thought it was just a one cost fee type thing.

I've been on a few Omnidekkas where I've been dripped on sitting at the front

I believe the idea behind them delicensing buses is that they get a tax refund, which when you consider that they're only running ~30% of them is quite a lot of money

(01 Apr 2020, 3:20 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]And what fares would those be? 

If you take the big 3 in the North East, they're largely all running a Sunday service with a few peak extras. There are fewer passengers than you'd find even on a Sunday, so you've got reduced income all 7 days of the week. 

Ultimately wages still need paid, fuel still needs used and maintenance still needs carried out. 

Shops, restaurants etc currently have a government paid workforce, little to no maintenance cost and so aren't in as bad of a position. Bus operators have all the usual costs, albeit on a slightly reduced scale (and with furloughed workers), so most will run into financial difficulty.

If this is an earnest question I'll answer it but if not I won't get into it with you. The fares up here are ridiculously priced up here. Why can't they dip into their deep pockets to pay their way through this situation?

(03 Apr 2020, 12:53 am)Big O wrote [ -> ]If this is an earnest question I'll answer it but if not I won't get into it with you. The fares up here are ridiculously priced up here. Why can't they dip into their deep pockets to pay their way through this situation?

The issue is the fares in London happen to be ridiculously cheap because of a ridiculous amount of subsidies.
You just have to look at GNE's accounts to realise they don't have 'deep pockets' to pay their way through it.

(02 Apr 2020, 9:55 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Also on a different subject I'm just curious what's the reason why bus companies are withdrawing / delicencing buses because of Covid 19? Is there some form of cost of having a bus even if you don't use it in terms of a licence that's monthly etc? I always thought it was just a one cost fee type thing.

If the vehicle has been sorn then you do not need to pay road tax.  Also, there will be things like tyres (most bus companies lease their tyres), so a saving there as its based on mileage.  Wifi and Telematics systems also normally carry a monthly charge if the vehicle is in service and then you have the engineering side - vehicles are normally checked every 28 days, so if you are short of staff due to been off with CONVID-19, the vehicle might not be able to get checked.

(03 Apr 2020, 5:44 am)citaro5284 wrote [ -> ]If the vehicle has been sorn then you do not need to pay road tax.  Also, there will be things like tyres (most bus companies lease their tyres), so a saving there as its based on mileage.  Wifi and Telematics systems also normally carry a monthly charge if the vehicle is in service and then you have the engineering side - vehicles are normally checked every 28 days, so if you are short of staff due to been off with CONVID-19, the vehicle might not be able to get checked.

Ah road tax, totally forgot about that. I knew there'd be something I forgot.

I was just thinking on a maintenance point of view surely it would've been better to swap them around say monthly as it's not ideal leaving anything off the road for months on end when they're designed for heavy use but the tax is no doubt high for some of the older stock so makes sense.

(02 Apr 2020, 9:55 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Yeah they were, the East Lancs Cityzens (think that's spelt right). Guessing it was just an East Lancs problem then, never been on the Omnidekka's or I'm guessing the Lolynes you meant there before. The mix of carpet (which was on the side panels) and water wasn't a particular very good combination.


Talking about leaks I can remember one of them which used to literally have a stream of water pouring behind one of the panels next the fire exit door. Mind some of the VDL's are having the same issue lately so could be a Blyth thing.

It's amazing that a few of them we're still on the road in 2017 (N385OTY) and one of them is currently SORN (N392OTY) rather than Not Taxed / Scrapped the state they were when they left Arriva in 2009.

------------------

Also on a different subject I'm just curious what's the reason why bus companies are withdrawing / delicencing buses because of Covid 19? Is there some form of cost of having a bus even if you don't use it in terms of a licence that's monthly etc? I always thought it was just a one cost fee type thing.

Possibly an East Lancs thing. 
Trying to think what the Vykings were like and I'm struggling. Maybe the centre door on them helped!
Don't think I ever got a go on one of the Pyoneers.

(03 Apr 2020, 12:53 am)Big O wrote [ -> ]If this is an earnest question I'll answer it but if not I won't get into it with you. The fares up here are ridiculously priced up here. Why can't they dip into their deep pockets to pay their way through this situation?

Usually I'd agree with fares being too high in the NE, but in this instance they aren't getting the fares at all. 

Ultimately buses are still being driven around by drivers on £10+/hour, using fuel and requiring maintenance. The drivers I know have been saying they're carrying around fresh air majority of the time - that simply cannot translate into earning money. 

Generally the deeper the pocket, the larger the mouth they have to feed it with. I'd imagine most of the big groups (bar perhaps First, who I imagine are in an even worse position) have a roughly similar proportional amount of money in reserve - but if this goes on for months then that won't be enough.

(03 Apr 2020, 1:34 am)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]The issue is the fares in London happen to be ridiculously cheap because of a ridiculous amount of subsidies.
You just have to look at GNE's accounts to realise they don't have 'deep pockets' to pay their way through it.

Are you uttering what you’ve read on here or do you actually know how the subsidies in London work?

We are continually reviewing the use of each journey that we operate with bus use now at an all time low as the region follows the government's travel advice.

In line with the patterns of use we are now seeing, from Saturday 4 April there will be changes to services 1A, 5, 11, 19, 74, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 309, 310, 683, 684, 921, 923, 937, X1, X20, X84 and X85.

Further changes are planned for services in Gateshead, Sunderland and Chester-le-Street from Saturday 11 April with all existing journeys for key workers maintained. Details for these changes will be announced soon.

https://assets.goaheadbus.com/media/cms_...-04-20.pdf

Details of service levels from 4th April: https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/coronaviru...JQAJs2kuqY



More buses delicensed?, don't blame them, buses are getting emptier by the hour.



Service 5: Every 2 hours

Little Coasters 11 – the service will run every two hours

74 - every 3 hours

indiGo Washington 81, 82 - every 2 hours (combined hourly service on certain sections)

indiGo Washington 83, 84 - every 2 hours (combined hourly service on certain sections)

indiGo Washington 85 and 86 - every 2 hours (combined hourly service on certain sections)

309 and 310 evening frequency - every 2 hours (1 hour combined on certain sections of the route)

683 will be revised to run every two hours

X1 - After 7pm will be every 2 hours

Tynedale Express X84 & X85 - every 2 hours

X20/921/923 – will not run after 3 April as npower will be closed

Service 937 – will not run after 3 April

(03 Apr 2020, 12:53 am)Big O wrote [ -> ]If this is an earnest question I'll answer it but if not I won't get into it with you. The fares up here are ridiculously priced up here. Why can't they dip into their deep pockets to pay their way through this situation?

If they had such deep pockets don't you think staff would have been pushing for a higher wage rise last year? 

Not to mention that the figures have been estimated earlier in this thread of how much the weekly cost is for 100 drivers per depot. With a company that has nearly 3000 staff across GNE and EY, the figure to "pay their way" will be astronomical. 

It's far easier for the London operators to collect their fares and have higher footfall simply because it's all operated under the TfL banner. With the Oyster card you can get on any service no matter which company is operating it. Up here, you have competition - the Coast Road is an obvious example. GNE competing with Arriva on a busy route - someone buying an Arriva weekly ticket can't use it on GNE. You have to have a Network One ticket up here for multi operator.

(03 Apr 2020, 10:41 am)Michael wrote [ -> ]We are continually reviewing the use of each journey that we operate with bus use now at an all time low as the region follows the government's travel advice.

In line with the patterns of use we are now seeing, from Saturday 4 April there will be changes to services 1A, 5, 11, 19, 74, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 309, 310, 683, 684, 921, 923, 937, X1, X20, X84 and X85.

Further changes are planned for services in Gateshead, Sunderland and Chester-le-Street from Saturday 11 April with all existing journeys for key workers maintained. Details for these changes will be announced soon.

https://assets.goaheadbus.com/media/cms_...-04-20.pdf

Details of service levels from 4th April: https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/coronaviru...JQAJs2kuqY



More buses delicensed?, don't blame them, buses are getting emptier by the hour.



Service 5: Every 2 hours

Little Coasters 11 – the service will run every two hours

74 - every 3 hours

indiGo Washington 81, 82 - every 2 hours (combined hourly service on certain sections)

indiGo Washington 83, 84 - every 2 hours (combined hourly service on certain sections)

indiGo Washington 85 and 86 - every 2 hours (combined hourly service on certain sections)

309 and 310 evening frequency - every 2 hours (1 hour combined on certain sections of the route)

683 will be revised to run every two hours

X1 - After 7pm will be every 2 hours

Tynedale Express X84 & X85 - every 2 hours

X20/921/923 – will not run after 3 April as npower will be closed

Service 937 – will not run after 3 April

All of Washington's services in these latest changes seem to have had their last normal journeys curtailed.

5 from Jarrow to Shields at 2316 gone
5 from Shields to Fellgate at 2314 gone
X1 from Newcastle to Easington Lane at 2300 gone

(03 Apr 2020, 12:35 pm)6049 wrote [ -> ]If they had such deep pockets don't you think staff would have been pushing for a higher wage rise last year? 

Not to mention that the figures have been estimated earlier in this thread of how much the weekly cost is for 100 drivers per depot. With a company that has nearly 3000 staff across GNE and EY, the figure to "pay their way" will be astronomical. 

It's far easier for the London operators to collect their fares and have higher footfall simply because it's all operated under the TfL banner. With the Oyster card you can get on any service no matter which company is operating it. Up here, you have competition - the Coast Road is an obvious example. GNE competing with Arriva on a busy route - someone buying an Arriva weekly ticket can't use it on GNE. You have to have a Network One ticket up here for multi operator.

What on earth does a payrise have to do with deep pockets? Do you think staff take into consideration how much GNE make before pushing for a payrise?! 

London operators do not collect fares by the way. Its all automated and sent to Tfl. London operators get paid for the miles operated and because there is no competition it means fewer resources are used in over bussing and actually creating routes that benefit the public. For me to get across the city from where I live, I find that if I do take the bus (which I never do) I have to go into the city centre and come back out again. It's annoying and makes the journey slower.

(03 Apr 2020, 3:43 pm)Big O wrote [ -> ]What on earth does a payrise have to do with deep pockets? Do you think staff take into consideration how much GNE make before pushing for a payrise?! 

London operators do not collect fares by the way. Its all automated and sent to Tfl. London operators get paid for the miles operated and because there is no competition it means fewer resources are used in over bussing and actually creating routes that benefit the public. For me to get across the city from where I live, I find that if I do take the bus (which I never do) I have to go into the city centre and come back out again. It's annoying and makes the journey slower.

Erm yes. That's what the union is there for, and company performance is assessed to see what is a reasonable demand 

I said virtually the same thing regarding the way London operators are paid - that it isn't based on fares taken because London is by and large tap and go. Routes in the North East are also created for the public benefit, but are only operated if commercially viable - if they aren't, then the local authority or Nexus will decide whether it is an essential service which needs to be kept running even if it is running at a loss.

(03 Apr 2020, 9:04 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Possibly an East Lancs thing. 
Trying to think what the Vykings were like and I'm struggling. Maybe the centre door on them helped!
Don't think I ever got a go on one of the Pyoneers.

I've never been on the Vikings but have used the Lowlanders at Blyth and can't really remember any leaks on them tbh. Infact they used to feel quite solid with barely any rattles at all. Shame they we're ruined by the Urban 90's which have to be the worst seats ever made.

(03 Apr 2020, 12:35 pm)6049 wrote [ -> ]If they had such deep pockets don't you think staff would have been pushing for a higher wage rise last year? 

Not to mention that the figures have been estimated earlier in this thread of how much the weekly cost is for 100 drivers per depot. With a company that has nearly 3000 staff across GNE and EY, the figure to "pay their way" will be astronomical. 

It's far easier for the London operators to collect their fares and have higher footfall simply because it's all operated under the TfL banner. With the Oyster card you can get on any service no matter which company is operating it. Up here, you have competition - the Coast Road is an obvious example. GNE competing with Arriva on a busy route - someone buying an Arriva weekly ticket can't use it on GNE. You have to have a Network One ticket up here for multi operator.

(03 Apr 2020, 4:48 pm)6049 wrote [ -> ]Erm yes. That's what the union is there for, and company performance is assessed to see what is a reasonable demand 

I said virtually the same thing regarding the way London operators are paid - that it isn't based on fares taken because London is by and large tap and go. Routes in the North East are also created for the public benefit, but are only operated if commercially viable - if they aren't, then the local authority or Nexus will decide whether it is an essential service which needs to be kept running even if it is running at a loss.

So your saying the fares in the North East are good value for money? £4.40 for singles to do 6 miles. Cheaper to use a taxi if there's more than 3 of you etc. Not really. I'm not saying that comparing to London fares is fair either which are way too cheap and are over subsidised but NE tickets in general in places are too expensive.

On the Coast Road that's GNE's choice so you can't use that as a reason. GNE could bin off the 309 tomorrow and it wouldn't really affect anyone bar the small minority of people going from Blyth - Foxhunters to Cobalt the rest of the route is covered by the 308 or 335.

Routes in the North East are created for the COMPANIES benefit not the public benefit and you've already said in your own words why. If they we're designed for the public's benefit then it work in the sense that Route A makes £500, Route B makes a loss of £200. That's a profit of £300 so that's all fine because some of those customers might use Route A at times aswell. Instead you get the issue of oh Route B doesn't exist, well I'm driving and not using Route A neither as I can't get to X. It shouldn't work in a sense that you take the profit then dump it on the tax payer to pay for the non commercial routes. These are the exact reasons why they shouldn't be getting bailed out.

Either way though it's irrelevant anyway as the government has annouced a package to fund any losses on any routes ran for the next 3 months aslong as a set percentage of their network is running which is probably the fairest outcome.

Also for the record, in terms of pay if the big boss didn't decide to pay himself £1.7 million a year and you split that between all of said GNE/EY drivers then they'd earn another £557 a year - just saying.

Next weekend. With it being Easter, will GNE be deploying senior driving staff & other non driving staff on certain routes to ensure that only people who are making essential journeys actually get on (or in theory)?

- Coaster, C&C 309, Crusader, Prince Bishops are routes where some idiots may end up trying to travel for a 'day-out' at the Coast thus potentially putting drivers, key workers and other passengers travelling for essential reasons at risk.

(03 Apr 2020, 6:07 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]Next weekend. With it being Easter, will GNE be deploying senior driving staff & other non driving staff on certain routes to ensure that only people who are making essential journeys actually get on (or in theory)?

- Coaster, C&C 309, Crusader, Prince Bishops are routes where some idiots may end up trying to travel for a 'day-out' at the Coast thus potentially putting drivers, key workers and other passengers travelling for essential reasons at risk.

No. Go North East are following the Government’s advice and all office based staff who can work from home, are working from home.

If bus users aren’t following the Government advice to stay at home, it isn’t for bus drivers (regardless of whether they’re a normal bus driver or an office based employee with a PCV licence) to enforce that.


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(03 Apr 2020, 7:48 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]No. Go North East are following the Government’s advice and all office based staff who can work from home, are working from home.

If bus users aren’t following the Government advice to stay at home, it isn’t for bus drivers (regardless of whether they’re a normal bus driver or an office based employee with a PCV licence) to enforce that.


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Fair enough. Hopefully the police carry out patrols around the areas (in part) where the stops on them routes are as part of their other patrols  and keep an eye out for any large gatherings at several stops.

I don’t know why they’d patrol bus stops. Patrolling the whole town would be sufficient (which they probably will) as you shouldn’t be driving there either.

(03 Apr 2020, 9:57 pm)Wybus wrote [ -> ]I don’t know why they’d patrol bus stops. Patrolling the whole town would be sufficient (which they probably will) as you shouldn’t be driving there either.

No doubt though that there'll be people queing in Walkergate, Wallsend, Howdon, Chirton and North Shields (Coaster route) to go for a "day out" in Tynemouth, Cullercoates and Whitley Bay. Police can close the beaches off but people will still try and go for a wander along the seafront. 

Could be a similar scenario on the Coast Road with the 306, 308 & 309 and people heading to Tynemouth,Whitley Bay, Seaton Sluice and Blyth.

All good police patrolling the Coast but non essential travel particularly on the last 2x services mentioned (308 & 309) could pose an ever greater risk due to both of them routes serving 3x close or nearby hospitals (RVI, Freeman, Rake Lane).

Let's hope if the police see any large queues at Billy Mill heading eastbound etc that they at least pull over and find out what passenger's intentions are.

Well the potential passengers could say they are all bus enthusiasts wanting to sample a rare and odd working.