(06 Dec 2020, 8:38 pm)big mac wrote [ -> ]The x20 is unique amongst xlines services in that I can't think of another service where at least one of the criteria applies to part of the route but not all of it.
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Well...
If I were travelling between Newcastle and Consett, I wouldn't be driving my car through Tantobie and Burnopfield; or Medomsley, Hamsterley Mill and Burnopfield.
I also wouldn't be driving through Throckley, Wylam, Ovigham or Ovington if driving between Newcastle and Hexham either. If that's not meandering, I don't know what is...
(06 Dec 2020, 8:48 pm)MurdnunoC wrote [ -> ]Well...
If I were travelling between Newcastle and Consett, I wouldn't be driving my car through Tantobie and Burnopfield; or Medomsley, Hamsterley Mill and Burnopfield.
I also wouldn't be driving through Throckley, Wylam, Ovigham or Ovington if driving between Newcastle and Hexham either. If that's not meandering, I don't know what is...
X84 and x85 are quicker than the 10 between Newcastle and Hexham so they can qualify because of that.
X70 and x71 are a strange one in that they're very slightly quicker than the x45 and x46 between Newcastle and Consett even though the x45/6 are seen as taking the route you would in your car.
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(06 Dec 2020, 8:48 pm)MurdnunoC wrote [ -> ]Well...
If I were travelling between Newcastle and Consett, I wouldn't be driving my car through Tantobie and Burnopfield; or Medomsley, Hamsterley Mill and Burnopfield.
I also wouldn't be driving through Throckley, Wylam, Ovigham or Ovington if driving between Newcastle and Hexham either. If that's not meandering, I don't know what is...
tbf is there any bus route in the whole North East you'd travel using the bus route it takes in a car, I can't think of any. Certainly none of the X Lines routes you'd use the route they use to get from A to B and I wouldn't expect them to either.
btw going through Medomsley is the quickest way through to the Swalwell rather than via Shotley Bridge and whoever said the X45/X46 is the way you'd drive you wouldn't you'd go through Sunniside and Dipton, it's much quicker.
(06 Dec 2020, 6:15 pm)MurdnunoC wrote [ -> ]
Is it true that it is being renumbered back to the 14 post-COVID as the route doesn't adhere to the X-Lines ethos, as explained by Roger French in his blog, of being:
"an X-line route will pretty much take a direct trajectory much as you would if you drove a car between the communities across the region. Meandering routes are left for other bus services."
Source: [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.54)]https://busandtrainuser.com/2020/11/05/a...n-x-lines/[/color]
I really dislike this "its pretty much as direct as a car" lark - it absolutely isn't. Nobody from Consett to Durham is popping through Lanchester front street or Witton Gilbert.
Then there's the X70, I imagine most of Consett drop by Tantobie and Burnopfield on their drive into Newcastle. Oh, and don't forget all of the people who follow the X71 route via Leadgate, Medomsley, Hamsterley Mill and Burnopfield instead of just sticking to the A692.
I get the point that the services are quick, and likely quicker than people expect the bus service to be, but regular folk just aren't going to believe that a bus will take as direct a route as the car will (mainly because they don't). It's also something that Joe Bloggs will read about then wonder why it turns off the fastest route to "x" to serve a small village while they sail past in their car. Of course punters want it to be reasonably quick, which they are, but I imagine that the more appealing things about the X-Lines brand are the interior features.
The only routes in the North East that I can think of that would be able to say they are "pretty much" as direct as the car would be the ANE stuff between Newcastle and Morpeth, with the "pretty much" covering the Regent Centre stop and the SNE X24. Possibly the X9/X10 but then Dalton Park/Peterlee/Billingham/Stockton aren't exactly on the direct path between Newcastle and Middlesbrough.
Edit: Just seen your post from an hour ago, didn't realise there'd been another page of discussion between me starting this reply and finally getting around to finish it.
(06 Dec 2020, 9:53 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]tbf is there any bus route in the whole North East you'd travel using the bus route it takes in a car, I can't think of any. Certainly none of the X Lines routes you'd use the route they use to get from A to B and I wouldn't expect them to either.
btw going through Medomsley is the quickest way through to the Swalwell rather than via Shotley Bridge and whoever said the X45/X46 is the way you'd drive you wouldn't you'd go through Sunniside and Dipton, it's much quicker.
To be fair, the X21 does go basically the same way we go in the car.
Obviously there are a few little differences like missing out Spennymoor and Chester le Street because it's faster going a long the bypass, and we'd continue up the A1 instead of going through Low Fell because the traffic is a nightmare and you always get caught behind a bus! But the general route is basically the same.
We do sometimes use the A1 but it either means going past Amazon where the traffic is always bad, or going miles out the way to save a few minutes.
(06 Dec 2020, 10:43 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]To be fair, the X21 does go basically the same way we go in the car.
Obviously there are a few little differences like missing out Spennymoor and Chester le Street because it's faster going a long the bypass, and we'd continue up the A1 instead of going through Low Fell because the traffic is a nightmare and you always get caught behind a bus! But the general route is basically the same.
We do sometimes use the A1 but it either means going past Amazon where the traffic is always bad, or going miles out the way to save a few minutes.
Surely most people would go by Amazon though especially Northbound, Southbound is a nightmare at that roundabout though with every takeaway company that exists now (literally) which I always forget it's name (starts with T though). Nevilles Cross is a nightmare at rush hour aswell though.
Whoever approved the Costa needs shot as they've pretty much made it impossible to widen now and it badly needs more lanes. Edit: Thinford.
(06 Dec 2020, 10:50 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Surely most people would go by Amazon though especially Northbound, Southbound is a nightmare at that roundabout though with every takeaway company that exists now (literally) which I always forget it's name (starts with T though). Nevilles Cross is a nightmare at rush hour aswell though.
Whoever approved the Costa needs shot as they've pretty much made it impossible to widen now and it badly needs more lanes. Edit: Thinford.
That's what we used to do, but the traffic is absolutely horrendous now, especially around 6pm since that's when the shift change is at Amazon. My brother works there and the couple times I've been in the car when picking him up it's legitimately taken about 10 minutes to get through because of the amount of cars.
Plus, it really only saves like 5 minutes (if you go the speed limit) compared to just going up the A167 and adds an extra 3 miles onto the journey, and Neville's Cross hasn't really been that busy recently, nowhere near what it used to be.
(06 Dec 2020, 6:47 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]The X20 is slower than the 13 so it doesn't hit that either.
The 13 deoesn't go to the Arnison centre, though, so the X20 is definitely quicker than the 13 if you want to pop to Sainsburys. There's always a good queue for it.
(06 Dec 2020, 9:53 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]tbf is there any bus route in the whole North East you'd travel using the bus route it takes in a car, I can't think of any. Certainly none of the X Lines routes you'd use the route they use to get from A to B and I wouldn't expect them to either.
btw going through Medomsley is the quickest way through to the Swalwell rather than via Shotley Bridge and whoever said the X45/X46 is the way you'd drive you wouldn't you'd go through Sunniside and Dipton, it's much quicker.
The 62 from Durham city centre to the Arnison centre
if we're heading into Newcastle, we often take pretty much the X21 route from Durham, save for ducking into CLS and the route into the Eldon square car park.
(06 Dec 2020, 11:47 pm)BusLoverMum wrote [ -> ]The 13 deoesn't go to the Arnison centre, though, so the X20 is definitely quicker than the 13 if you want to pop to Sainsburys. There's always a good queue for it.
The 62 from Durham city centre to the Arnison centre
if we're heading into Newcastle, we often take pretty much the X21 route from Durham, save for ducking into CLS and the route into the Eldon square car park.
That assumes it even goes to Sainsburys, it seems like there's constant tweets going out saying Arnison is too busy and to catch your bus from LIDL!
Looks like 8339-43 are allocated to the 9 today.
(07 Dec 2020, 12:22 am)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]That assumes it even goes to Sainsburys, it seems like there's constant tweets going out saying Arnison is too busy and to catch your bus from LIDL!
To be fair to them I was there on Saturday and it was an absolute nightmare. I’d hazard a guess that buses were losing about 10 minutes in each direction.
The queue for the McDonalds drive thru seems to be spilling out onto the main exit road, and nobody moves anywhere fast as a result.
(07 Dec 2020, 7:41 am)S813 FVK wrote [ -> ]To be fair to them I was there on Saturday and it was an absolute nightmare. I’d hazard a guess that buses were losing about 10 minutes in each direction.
The queue for the McDonalds drive thru seems to be spilling out onto the main exit road, and nobody moves anywhere fast as a result.
I was also there on Saturday out of curiosity - not even to go to the shops - and it took me 20 minutes to get into the car park and 30 minutes to get back out. Quite frankly I was appalled, and it's no wonder the buses have to be pulled out every weekend.
McDonald's stopped paying for traffic management at all of their restaurants within weeks of reopening after the first lockdown, so I think delays because of queues at their peak times are going to last a while yet...
(07 Dec 2020, 7:41 am)S813 FVK wrote [ -> ]To be fair to them I was there on Saturday and it was an absolute nightmare. I’d hazard a guess that buses were losing about 10 minutes in each direction.
The queue for the McDonalds drive thru seems to be spilling out onto the main exit road, and nobody moves anywhere fast as a result.
Queues at this time of year in any retail park are inevitable. Particularly the ones with poor or limited access in and out of the place.
The 50 has often been impacted with traffic in and around the Arnison Centre and that only skirts the outside.
Quite why they thought it would be different with the 21 and X20 is anyones guess.
(07 Dec 2020, 8:15 am)omnicity4659 wrote [ -> ]McDonald's stopped paying for traffic management at all of their restaurants within weeks of reopening after the first lockdown, so I think delays because of queues at their peak times are going to last a while yet...
At the Arnison, someone has blocked off the right turn in to the McDonald's car park.
As a result, the traffic is forced to go up to the mini-roundabout and turn back on itself.
Obviously there's the people rocking up who are going to one of the other shops and then there's the buses joining the queue from the bus-link.
The buses often got stuck prior to all of this. I'm just surprised that people are surprised.
(07 Dec 2020, 8:23 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]I'm just surprised that people are surprised.
I don't think anyone is surprised - but it's surely within the best interests of the Arnison Centre if they get to grips with their parking management?
As I mentioned, I was there on Saturday and the car parks were heaving. I didn't attempt to park up but I'd have struggled to find a space. It struck me how it was absolutely the right thing to do, sending the 21 via the Arnison Centre, and how if just 1% of the car users travelled by bus instead, it would result in a significant increase in patronage on the 21, whilst also alleviating some of the parking woes.
It's a growing place with a lot of customers. I think you'll see more promotion and marketing of the 21 via Arnison Centre in the coming days.
The bus-link at the Arnison Centre is quite the contradiction. Great for getting buses into the place but horrendous for getting buses out. My only concern is that if operators do decide to divert their buses to the perimeter when busy (which I'm not criticising), how do you let passengers waiting at the bus-link know that you are doing this? Personally, I only check social media for information about my bus when it is already late. I'd be a bit annoyed if I was standing at the bus-link and saw my bus go straight across the roundabout at the top on Abbey Road before seeing it again passing the car park at Sainsburys.
(07 Dec 2020, 8:31 am)Dan wrote [ -> ]I don't think anyone is surprised - but it's surely within the best interests of the Arnison Centre if they get to grips with their parking management?
As I mentioned, I was there on Saturday and the car parks were heaving. I didn't attempt to park up but I'd have struggled to find a space. It struck me how it was absolutely the right thing to do, sending the 21 via the Arnison Centre, and how if just 1% of the car users travelled by bus instead, it would result in a significant increase in patronage on the 21, whilst also alleviating some of the parking woes.
It's a growing place with a lot of customers. I think you'll see more promotion and marketing of the 21 via Arnison Centre in the coming days.
I don't understand how the demand for places like McDonald's and the fact everyone is going through the drive through has anything to do with parking management.
Similarly, for that 1% to switch to bus - you're assuming that there's a proportion of people going there in the car, who can get there on the 21 or a bus at all.
Unless those people live on the routes of the ANE or GNE services, then that's not going to happen.
Pushing the 21 is all fine and well for those living on the Durham Road corridor, who can manage the social distancing on the bus and with the limited space to put their shopping.
If they're one of the many who don't live on the Durham Road corridor, struggle with the social distancing aspect and don't want to take the risk of seeing the 'bus full' display, don't want to walk to the bus link to find out they then need to navigate Sainsburys and the car parks to get to Lidl, and the number of bags takes up space beyond their pleather seat - it's not going to make much difference.
The Arnison Centre has a huge catchment area. Apart from the immediate outlying villages of Durham City such as the Ushaw Moors, Esh Winnings Bearparks etc., the lanes around Cocken leading from the Raintons, Pittington, Leamside and Lumley can get heaving on a weekend.
The 21 can't and won't fix any of those issues.
(07 Dec 2020, 8:23 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Queues at this time of year in any retail park are inevitable. Particularly the ones with poor or limited access in and out of the place.
The 50 has often been impacted with traffic in and around the Arnison Centre and that only skirts the outside.
Quite why they thought it would be different with the 21 and X20 is anyones guess.
At the Arnison, someone has blocked off the right turn in to the McDonald's car park.
As a result, the traffic is forced to go up to the mini-roundabout and turn back on itself.
Obviously there's the people rocking up who are going to one of the other shops and then there's the buses joining the queue from the bus-link.
The buses often got stuck prior to all of this. I'm just surprised that people are surprised.
I know this isn't the place for traffic management suggestions... but would it be a good idea to have the road past McDonald's one way, with the left lane for McDonald's queues and the right lane for buses and traffic exiting the park, whilst traffic entering uses the Sainsbury's slip road and around the edge of their car park?
I've only been around in the car late-evening/post-midnight so I don't actually know if the above would work.
I think everyone saw this issue coming with the 21 and the Arnison Centre as soon as it was announced it wax going to serve there.
The decision in itself to send it through their was always going to negativity affect reliability, but GNE also did it at the same time as reducing the layover time at Durham Bus Station to just four minutes, so they're not even giving it a chance to stick to schedule with a timetable like that.
Hopefully the timings will be amended in the upcoming January changes.
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If you ever go to Arnison and it's busy via McDonalds just go out the other exit which not many people know about via Sainsbury's car park and cut out by the KFC retail park. There's usually less queues. Not many people know about it