(25 Nov 2020, 3:21 pm)Venturego wrote [ -> ]Richard Holden MP for Consett is tweeting: "The Chancellor of the Exchequer, today announced that the feasibility study for new link between Consett and The Tyne has got the go ahead!"
Wonder how this wil affect GNE services (X lines etc...) and possible extension of Tyne & Wear Metro ad zone pricing to the wider area?
[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.54)]https://twitter.com/i/status/1331598510853140480[/color]
I've taken a screenshot from the link.
Wonder which route they would take and which one will be the most viable.
Also of note, is the possible station at Ferryhill.
No doubt if it does happen it be many years away at the rate they are going. They've been going on about Newcastle to Ashington for over 25 years now and there still no passenger trains to Ashington.
(25 Nov 2020, 3:21 pm)Venturego wrote [ -> ]Richard Holden MP for Consett is tweeting: "The Chancellor of the Exchequer, today announced that the feasibility study for new link between Consett and The Tyne has got the go ahead!"
Wonder how this wil affect GNE services (X lines etc...) and possible extension of Tyne & Wear Metro ad zone pricing to the wider area?
[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.54)]https://twitter.com/i/status/1331598510853140480[/color]
As much as he likes to harp on about a 'direct link' between Consett and Metrocentre, there really isn't that many large communities if the line went down the Derwent Walk. There's only really Shotley Bridge and Rowlands Gill which would benefit from stations. The rest of the line is decisively rural. Stations at Ebchester, High/Low Westwood, and Winlaton Mill are too far away from the villages they'll serve and I don't see the point of reopening the station at Lintz Green.
The most likely route will be the one closed in 1984 which is now the Sunderland - Consett cycleway which would probably see stations at Leadgate, Anfield Plain, Stanley, Beamish and Pelton before rejoining the ECML at Ouston Junction. That would serve the most communities and would probably see the most growth.
I've posted this elsewhere on the forum at some point but here, for those who might be interested, is a short video on 'The Last Train to Consett'.
It’s a sop to those ex Labour voters that helped elect him. If it does happen, I ll be later this century.
(26 Nov 2020, 9:45 am)Economic505 wrote [ -> ]It’s a sop to those ex Labour voters that helped elect him. If it does happen, I ll be later this century.
As much as I'd like to see it happen (and hope it does happen), I don't think it will happen anytime soon. It's an undeliverable empty promise which, politically, serves Richard Holden very well. In the eyes of voters, he will be seen as someone trying to be a champion of bringing prosperity to the area and, if (or when) he fails, he can easily blame a myriad of factors, some of which will undoubtedly be the fault of local Labour councillors at County Hall.
As for how will a rail-link to Consett affect the likes of Go North East, I don't think it will that much bearing, to be honest. Rail fares are usually higher and unless the route is electrified with high-line speeds, the time savings are marginal outside of the morning and afternoon rush-hours. On that video I posted, I think the journey is timed at around 40 minutes non-stop. I think the GNE advertise their journeys at around 60 minutes. So I think the journey time of the train would have to remain at around 40 minutes with stops to convince people to a pay a premium for the rail service.
As much as this would be handy for people, I really can't see this passing the cost benefit ratio. The B&T is easy because the line already exists so it's mostly just some new stations and new signalling. It'll cost a fortune to build a whole new railway line which mostly passes through nowhere really (no large settlement >100k). Stuff like the Metro through the West End or the Tees Valley Metro will get built before fantasy ideas like this (and that's never happening neither).
(26 Nov 2020, 11:59 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]As much as this would be handy for people, I really can't see this passing the cost benefit ratio. The B&T is easy because the line already exists so it's mostly just some new stations and new signalling. It'll cost a fortune to build a whole new railway line which mostly passes through nowhere really (no large settlement >100k). Stuff like the Metro through the West End or the Tees Valley Metro will get built before fantasy ideas like this (and that's never happening neither).
Consett is becoming more and more of a commuter town. The land was cheap and houses plentyful once the decontamination from the steelworks was cleared.
The problems lie in and amongst the road network and topography leading to Newcastle, Gateshead and Durham.
Road improvements or widening schemes aren't likely to happen, particularly as the green agenda is increased.
Unless they can get Consett International Airport off the ground again and offer carbon neutral flights, the rail offer is the next best thing. However unrealistic it may appear.
(26 Nov 2020, 2:46 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Consett is becoming more and more of a commuter town. The land was cheap and houses plentyful once the decontamination from the steelworks was cleared.
The problems lie in and amongst the road network and topography leading to Newcastle, Gateshead and Durham.
Road improvements or widening schemes aren't likely to happen, particularly as the green agenda is increased.
Unless they can get Consett International Airport off the ground again and offer carbon neutral flights, the rail offer is the next best thing. However unrealistic it may appear.
It's just the problem is that there's no where to build it. The land remains to Annfield Plain or so and probably wouldn't be 'that' expensive but it won't be cheap. After there there's nothing your building a brand new line almost as the A693 / A692 was built on the new railway line and it's going to become very very expensive for quite little gain really. In the Tyne Wear area the expansions that I think we could see (if any) would be:
- Leamside Line reopening
- Metro from Leamside Line to Sunderland creating a loop.
- Some form of railway / tram connecting Cobalt running on the Stephenson Railway.
- New Railway along Scotswood Road crossing the Tyne near Blaydon
- Extension of the Metro to Ponteland from the Airport
- Branch line from the ECML into Alnwick
- ECML improvements (Quad track) including new stations at Birtley, Team Valley, Heaton, Killingworth and Cramlington station moved South linked to the Alnwick Spur.
- Metro Extension to Ryhope / Doxford Park (new housing possible)
Quite a long list there but they've all been tipped off over and all will have better cost benefit ratios that the train to Consett sadly. That's in order of likelyhood aswell imo.
(26 Nov 2020, 3:02 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]It's just the problem is that there's no where to build it. The land remains to Annfield Plain or so and probably wouldn't be 'that' expensive but it won't be cheap. After there there's nothing your building a brand new line almost as the A693 / A692 was built on the new railway line and it's going to become very very expensive for quite little gain really. In the Tyne Wear area the expansions that I think we could see (if any) would be:- Leamside Line reopening
- Metro from Leamside Line to Sunderland creating a loop.
- Some form of railway / tram connecting Cobalt running on the Stephenson Railway.
- New Railway along Scotswood Road crossing the Tyne near Blaydon
- Extension of the Metro to Ponteland from the Airport
- Branch line from the ECML into Alnwick
- ECML improvements (Quad track) including new stations at Birtley, Team Valley, Heaton, Killingworth and Cramlington station moved South linked to the Alnwick Spur.
- Metro Extension to Ryhope / Doxford Park (new housing possible)
Quite a long list there but they've all been tipped off over and all will have better cost benefit ratios that the train to Consett sadly. That's in order of likelyhood aswell imo.
If there had been any joined up thinking then an extension to the Metro for CLS, Durham, SE Northumberland and Washington would have been far better than these line reopening schemes that keep popping up.
I forgot to mention it the other week when discussing the Ashington and Blyth line, but I frequently (pre-Covid, anyway) get the 08:56 LNER from Morpeth to Aberdeen. A Northern service leaves a couple of minutes beforehand headed into Newcastle, I don't think I've ever seen more than 2 or 3 people get on it. Fair enough it may be a bit past peak time, but the buses heading from Morpeth to Newcastle at a similar time are generally carrying healthy loads. A return on the train is £6, a Morpeth day routesaver is £6.20. Annually? £1148 on the train, £921 on the bus. I just don't see the likes of Consett, Ashington, Bedlington as places which will be keen on using the train over the convenience of a car, or the flexibility and value of a bus - a Metro system would be a different story.
(26 Nov 2020, 3:02 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]It's just the problem is that there's no where to build it. The land remains to Annfield Plain or so and probably wouldn't be 'that' expensive but it won't be cheap. After there there's nothing your building a brand new line almost as the A693 / A692 was built on the new railway line and it's going to become very very expensive for quite little gain really.
There are places to build it although there are now major obstacles in the way.
Pre-Beeching, there were two routes between Newcastle and Consett: The Derwent Valley and the Stanhope and Tyne - the former going through Rowlands Gill and the latter traversing Annfield Plain and Stanley.
The Derwent Valley route is severed in two main places, the first being between the Tyne Valley line and Swalwell, and the second is through Rowlands Gill. Housing estates now occupy both sites and, in Rowlands Gill, you'd have re-engineer the cutting which once ran through the village and now forms part of the village green (or Townley Fields as it's colloquially known). The rest of the route would need to be cleared of vegetation and the embankments strengthened. There are four viaducts on the routes which would require inspection but remain in situ. Additionally, two or three bridges would need to built to carry the line over the roads between Hamsterley Mill and Burnopfield, Hamsterley Mill and Medomsley, and High and Low Westwood (which is basically a dirt track anyway). There are also two minor roads between Ebchester and High Westwood, and Ebchester and Shotley Bridge, which would require bridges to carry them over the line.
The Stanhope and Tyne route between the former Ouston Junction and Kip Hill wouldn't pose that much of a problem aside from structure inspections and vegetation clearance. Once you get to Kip Hill, two bridges would be needed to carry the line over Pelaw Avenue and the A6076 (ironically the original railway bridges have only been replaced in the last twenty years or so). After that, it's pretty much plain sailing to Annfield Plain although a new bridge would be required to carry the line over an access road to Pea Farm. Annfield Plain poses a major problem as you now have houses, Tesco, and the A693 in the way of the original route so it would require a new alignment. Between Greencroft and the Jolly Drovers' roundabout wouldn't require much in the way of work, however, the bit between Leadgate and Consett would need a completely new alignment as houses and the A692 stand in the way of the original route.
Consett is itself poses a major problem as the Derwent Valley line used to circle around the old steel-works to the station, which was located near Delves Lane on the site of the A692 Consett By-Pass. The steel-works is now a sizeable housing development so it's hard to see where a station would now be constructed. From the Derwent Valley, it would have to be Blackhill otherwise tunneling would be required to take it near to the centre of Consett. From Annfield Plain, I think the line would have to stop near Leadgate Roundabout for the same reasons as above.
Some of the obstacles I've listed are not insurmountable, however, whether it would financially feasible to build the line is perhaps the biggest barrier to construction. Getting to the outskirts of Consett is relatively easy in comparison to getting to the centre of Consett. Because action wasn't taken in 1984 to preserve the route serving the steel-works, I believe that this is a total pipe-dream which will be peddled time and time again by politicians eager to engage the local community for one reason or another..
i thought it was the Tyne and wear metro?
(26 Nov 2020, 5:17 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]If there had been any joined up thinking then an extension to the Metro for CLS, Durham, SE Northumberland and Washington would have been far better than these line reopening schemes that keep popping up.
I forgot to mention it the other week when discussing the Ashington and Blyth line, but I frequently (pre-Covid, anyway) get the 08:56 LNER from Morpeth to Aberdeen. A Northern service leaves a couple of minutes beforehand headed into Newcastle, I don't think I've ever seen more than 2 or 3 people get on it. Fair enough it may be a bit past peak time, but the buses heading from Morpeth to Newcastle at a similar time are generally carrying healthy loads. A return on the train is £6, a Morpeth day routesaver is £6.20. Annually? £1148 on the train, £921 on the bus. I just don't see the likes of Consett, Ashington, Bedlington as places which will be keen on using the train over the convenience of a car, or the flexibility and value of a bus - a Metro system would be a different story.
You got to give credit to Morpeth though they probably have one of the best bus services in the North East to Newcastle and is probably one of the few bus routes which is comparable to driving from A to B not to mention it's cheaper than Blyth, Ashington and Bedlington even known it's the same distance / further. North of the tyne for distance and value can only imagine the Coast Road services being better value. If the train causes that impact to other areas I doubt we'll be complaining so it's a win/win either way really.
Agreed with the Metro mind even if they went for two brands like in other cities RER / Metro in Paris, Overground / Underground (DLR, Metro probably closer to that) with integrated tickets etc just to show ones every 12 minutes and the other is a little less frequent.
Then again it all depends though as the Guiseley / Skipton commuter services down in Leeds do really well and are dead cheap tbh compared to up here whereas the York local services are pretty much comparable to the Morpeth service in comparison.
(26 Nov 2020, 6:20 pm)MurdnunoC wrote [ -> ]There are places to build it although there are now major obstacles in the way.
Pre-Beeching, there were two routes between Newcastle and Consett: The Derwent Valley and the Stanhope and Tyne - the former going through Rowlands Gill and the latter traversing Annfield Plain and Stanley.
The Derwent Valley route is severed in two main places, the first being between the Tyne Valley line and Swalwell, and the second is through Rowlands Gill. Housing estates now occupy both sites and, in Rowlands Gill, you'd have re-engineer the cutting which once ran through the village and now forms part of the village green (or Townley Fields as it's colloquially known). The rest of the route would need to be cleared of vegetation and the embankments strengthened. There are four viaducts on the routes which would require inspection but remain in situ. Additionally, two or three bridges would need to built to carry the line over the roads between Hamsterley Mill and Burnopfield, Hamsterley Mill and Medomsley, and High and Low Westwood (which is basically a dirt track anyway). There are also two minor roads between Ebchester and High Westwood, and Ebchester and Shotley Bridge, which would require bridges to carry them over the line.
The Stanhope and Tyne route between the former Ouston Junction and Kip Hill wouldn't pose that much of a problem aside from structure inspections and vegetation clearance. Once you get to Kip Hill, two bridges would be needed to carry the line over Pelaw Avenue and the A6076 (ironically the original railway bridges have only been replaced in the last twenty years or so). After that, it's pretty much plain sailing to Annfield Plain although a new bridge would be required to carry the line over an access road to Pea Farm. Annfield Plain poses a major problem as you now have houses, Tesco, and the A693 in the way of the original route so it would require a new alignment. Between Greencroft and the Jolly Drovers' roundabout wouldn't require much in the way of work, however, the bit between Leadgate and Consett would need a completely new alignment as houses and the A692 stand in the way of the original route.
Consett is itself poses a major problem as the Derwent Valley line used to circle around the old steel-works to the station, which was located near Delves Lane on the site of the A692 Consett By-Pass. The steel-works is now a sizeable housing development so it's hard to see where a station would now be constructed. From the Derwent Valley, it would have to be Blackhill otherwise tunneling would be required to take it near to the centre of Consett. From Annfield Plain, I think the line would have to stop near Leadgate Roundabout for the same reasons as above.
Some of the obstacles I've listed are not insurmountable, however, whether it would financially feasible to build the line is perhaps the biggest barrier to construction. Getting to the outskirts of Consett is relatively easy in comparison to getting to the centre of Consett. Because action wasn't taken in 1984 to preserve the route serving the steel-works, I believe that this is a total pipe-dream which will be peddled time and time again by politicians eager to engage the local community for one reason or another..
Yeah quite a few hinderances really, one thing to note though is the Consett closures weren't Beeching as they we're gone 10 years earlier which isn't exactly a promising thing neither really can't see the cost benefit stacking up especially some of the routes that we're still around then and that one had already gone. Swalwell on the Derwent Valley is a big problem, not really any realistic route through there similar with Leadgate via Stanley.
You've also got the problem is that is everyone at Consett going to Newcastle, it's easy to say that at Ashington etc as it's the only city nearby. Consett on the other hand has Durham which is an equal distance so the population potential is pretty split in on who's going to use it straight away. Pipe dream definitely the best description
(26 Nov 2020, 8:02 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]You've also got the problem is that is everyone at Consett going to Newcastle, it's easy to say that at Ashington etc as it's the only city nearby. Consett on the other hand has Durham which is an equal distance so the population potential is pretty split in on who's going to use it straight away. Pipe dream definitely the best description
Very true and it was something I was thinking about earlier whilst posting.
If local politicians of all persuasions really wanted to connect Consett to the railway, it would be certainly cheaper and more cost-effective to provide funding for a minor diversion to the routes of the 16/16A/X5/X15 to serve Durham station on their way in and out of Durham. The forerunner to the 20, the 220, used to terminate at the station so it is doable.
(26 Nov 2020, 8:35 pm)MurdnunoC wrote [ -> ]Very true and it was something I was thinking about earlier whilst posting.
If local politicians of all persuasions really wanted to connect Consett to the railway, it would be certainly cheaper and more cost-effective to provide funding for a minor diversion to the routes of the 16/16A/X5/X15 to serve Durham station on their way in and out of Durham. The forerunner to the 20, the 220, used to terminate at the station so it is doable.
Yeah agreed or rebrand the Cathedral bus and link it to the Bus Station aswell with better advertising like the Manchester Free buses, it's one bus route that's really badly advertised especially the hills to both the Cathedral and Train Station which the less than well abled will both struggle with. Maybe even give free journeys to those who travel in via bus and/or train to persuade more people to use public transport like they do to P&R users.
Edit: it already serves the bus station, shows how well it's advertised.
(26 Nov 2020, 8:45 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Edit: it already serves the bus station, shows how well it's advertised.
Whenever I've seen it in the bus station, it's tended to nip in, pause briefly on the stand and then pull away quickly. It didn't help that the stand was shared with another route, and often had vehicles from that route blocking it, so the Cathedrals had to use a different stand, or just drive past and glance to see if anyone was waving furiously at him .....
(27 Nov 2020, 9:28 am)Ianthegoon wrote [ -> ]Whenever I've seen it in the bus station, it's tended to nip in, pause briefly on the stand and then pull away quickly. It didn't help that the stand was shared with another route, and often had vehicles from that route blocking it, so the Cathedrals had to use a different stand, or just drive past and glance to see if anyone was waving furiously at him .....
Its not just the cathedral buses that do that, it used to happen quite often to the X21 when Arriva dump their buses in the stands and there's nowhere to pull in
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Reports like that have been plentiful over the years. Project Orpheus springs immediately to mind but it's more a wishlist than anything else. Some might come to fruition but the majority won't.
(27 Nov 2020, 10:19 am)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]Its not just the cathedral buses that do that, it used to happen quite often to the X21 when Arriva dump their buses in the stands and there's nowhere to pull in
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I've actually seen the X21 loading on the section of road leading into the bus station, where they normally do drop-offs! At least they tend to hang around for a few minutes, giving passengers the chance to twig what's going on, but I bet they left some behind anyway .....