Appreciate that this thread may only get a few replies, but I was struggling to fit it in to one of the already existing threads so was left with no choice but to create a new thread entirely.
In essence, they've been fiddling around with the destination displays.
Again.
This time it seems to be to make the route-varying letter smaller (see here:
https://flic.kr/p/2kw3c9k). I've seen a couple of other photos this evening of a couple of 1As of which both had the smaller number so they must be seriously considering rolling this out.
What's the theory behind this one? Is there a small glimmer of evidence that suggests that passengers may find it easier to read the *full* route number when displayed in this way?
(29 Jan 2021, 8:37 pm)S813 FVK wrote [ -> ]Appreciate that this thread may only get a few replies, but I was struggling to fit it in to one of the already existing threads so was left with no choice but to create a new thread entirely.
In essence, they've been fiddling around with the destination displays, Again.
This time it seems to be to make the route-varying letter smaller (see here: https://flic.kr/p/2kw3c9k). I've seen a couple of other photos this evening of a couple of 1As of which both had the smaller number so they must be seriously considering rolling this out.
What's the theory behind this one? Is there a small glimmer of evidence that suggests that passengers may find it easier to read the *full* route number when displayed in this way?
Definitely looks better than what the 1B had been like with barely any gap between the 1 and the B
(29 Jan 2021, 8:37 pm)S813 FVK wrote [ -> ]What's the theory behind this one? Is there a small glimmer of evidence that suggests that passengers may find it easier to read the *full* route number when displayed in this way?
Have you not heard? It's been shown that changing the format, layout, and font size of destination displays on a weekly basis decreases the amount of customers bothering to ask the driver where the bus goes by 0.01%, rising to 0.02% if it moves away from best practice.
(29 Jan 2021, 8:37 pm)S813 FVK wrote [ -> ]Appreciate that this thread may only get a few replies, but I was struggling to fit it in to one of the already existing threads so was left with no choice but to create a new thread entirely.
In essence, they've been fiddling around with the destination displays, Again.
This time it seems to be to make the route-varying letter smaller (see here: https://flic.kr/p/2kw3c9k). I've seen a couple of other photos this evening of a couple of 1As of which both had the smaller number so they must be seriously considering rolling this out.
What's the theory behind this one? Is there a small glimmer of evidence that suggests that passengers may find it easier to read the *full* route number when displayed in this way?
Out of all the things they've done, I think that's definitely the worst. I know I've been saying it a lot, but it looks bloody awful
(29 Jan 2021, 8:53 pm)ne14ne1 wrote [ -> ]Definitely looks better than what the 1B had been like with barely any gap between the 1 and the B
The 1 pixel gap is far from great when both characters have tall, flat sides against each other as per the 1B, though I would suggest it would be better to just space them out a bit more rather than electing to reduce the letter size entirely.
(29 Jan 2021, 8:37 pm)S813 FVK wrote [ -> ]Appreciate that this thread may only get a few replies, but I was struggling to fit it in to one of the already existing threads so was left with no choice but to create a new thread entirely.
In essence, they've been fiddling around with the destination displays, Again.
This time it seems to be to make the route-varying letter smaller (see here: https://flic.kr/p/2kw3c9k). I've seen a couple of other photos this evening of a couple of 1As of which both had the smaller number so they must be seriously considering rolling this out.
What's the theory behind this one? Is there a small glimmer of evidence that suggests that passengers may find it easier to read the *full* route number when displayed in this way?
Doubt you would be able to see the letters from a distance they probs might need to consider going back to the last style or even original.
(29 Jan 2021, 8:37 pm)S813 FVK wrote [ -> ]Appreciate that this thread may only get a few replies, but I was struggling to fit it in to one of the already existing threads so was left with no choice but to create a new thread entirely.
In essence, they've been fiddling around with the destination displays. Again.
This time it seems to be to make the route-varying letter smaller (see here: https://flic.kr/p/2kw3c9k). I've seen a couple of other photos this evening of a couple of 1As of which both had the smaller number so they must be seriously considering rolling this out.
What's the theory behind this one? Is there a small glimmer of evidence that suggests that passengers may find it easier to read the *full* route number when displayed in this way?
It's those important things again.
Of all the things they could do to make 'things' better, such as improving links, timings or whatever else that would benefit customers - they're spending time fulfilling self indulgence needs and titivating things that didn't need titivating.
Must have ran out of paint this week... Or Stennings emails have been down.
(29 Jan 2021, 8:37 pm)S813 FVK wrote [ -> ]Appreciate that this thread may only get a few replies, but I was struggling to fit it in to one of the already existing threads so was left with no choice but to create a new thread entirely.
In essence, they've been fiddling around with the destination displays. Again.
This time it seems to be to make the route-varying letter smaller (see here: https://flic.kr/p/2kw3c9k). I've seen a couple of other photos this evening of a couple of 1As of which both had the smaller number so they must be seriously considering rolling this out.
What's the theory behind this one? Is there a small glimmer of evidence that suggests that passengers may find it easier to read the *full* route number when displayed in this way?
This is just absolutely taking the piss now. So pointless. Just leave them!!
They need to just change them back to the way they were. I'll never shut up about it. Number on the nearside with the older format whereby the bolder font was used. This is getting out of hand now. The constant fiddling with this format is so boring to see. If it's not broken, don't fix it — and it certainly wasn't broken to begin with. Honestly.
Not a fan of these small characters for the destination number/character, IMO the service number should be the most prominent part of the destination as from what I've gathered its the main thing most customers look out for.
I wouldn't mind the shifting of the service number to the opposite side of the destination if it weren't for the fact that the old displays have the colour box to indicate the service number on the nearside meaning we currently have some buses with the service number on one side and others on the other side, for the sake of consistency I feel you should go for one or the other, admittedly the refurbs seem to be getting full white displays to contract these problems but even still there's still a fair few number with the old displays.
Personally I feel B should always be avoided in service numbers due to it closely resembling a number 8.
Presumably the next step is dropping service numbers altogether like trentbarton and Hornby is now adopting at Transdev too on some routes.
EDIT: another concern is the small characters for service number is similar size to the ultimate destination which concerns me having experienced a similar issue in the past with Arriva Durham depot with the 7/7A both terminating at the Arnison Centre with the service number on the drivers side and I honestly struggled to distinguish as to whether it was a 7 or 7A as if it was the 7, the A in Arnison Centre was the same size as the 7 with no adequate spacing, so it looked more like it was operating the 7A as opposed to the 7
(29 Jan 2021, 9:02 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]Have you not heard? It's been shown that changing the format, layout, and font size of destination displays on a weekly basis decreases the amount of customers bothering to ask the driver where the bus goes by 0.01%, rising to 0.02% if it moves away from best practice.
Whey no, they're just after confusing passengers.
Why make the distinction between the 2 and 2A obvious?
Hide the A bit, make it as small as you can and cause endless confusion when Doris thinks she's getting the 2 home.
The laughs they'll have back in control, when they review the CCTV footage of bewildered passengers faces as the bus they thought was the right one - takes a left hand turning or goes straight on over the roundabout...
"Boss! Boss! We've got another one! Come and have a look at this! She's kicking off with the driver cos he took the wrong turn! Except it hasn't! It's that small A again. It gets them every time!"
"Good lad. This was a brilliant idea, her face was a right picture. Send it in to Harry Hill at You've Been Framed, we must be due another £250. Don't send in the footage of that disabled lad who got confused and upset though, we won't get as many likes on social media for that one"
I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that GNE are damned if they do, and damned if the don't with regards to the opinions on this forum.
I feel the new font is far clearer and certainly in regards to the 1B, it is a vast improvement. It seems like feedback has been taken on considering a gripe from a while back was a lower case "g" being on the same level as the rest of the letters when there was space underneath to allow it to be lined up as it would be written.
I completely understand the arguments to follow best practice, however, I also think there is strong merit to having the number on the offside as many of the new bus stations especially are laid out in such a manner that the number is obscured to a degree. I don't think GNE can be blamed for this as it is a combination of the layout of the stations and more importantly the design of the bus itself.
Translink in Belfast have lowercase letters denoting the variation in the route after the number which seems to work over there. To me, the capitalised letter is more effective even if it is slightly smaller and raised compared to the number.
Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk
(30 Jan 2021, 2:04 am)6049 wrote [ -> ]I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that GNE are damned if they do, and damned if the don't with regards to the opinions on this forum.
I feel the new font is far clearer and certainly in regards to the 1B, it is a vast improvement. It seems like feedback has been taken on considering a gripe from a while back was a lower case "g" being on the same level as the rest of the letters when there was space underneath to allow it to be lined up as it would be written.
I completely understand the arguments to follow best practice, however, I also think there is strong merit to having the number on the offside as many of the new bus stations especially are laid out in such a manner that the number is obscured to a degree. I don't think GNE can be blamed for this as it is a combination of the layout of the stations and more importantly the design of the bus itself.
Translink in Belfast have lowercase letters denoting the variation in the route after the number which seems to work over there. To me, the capitalised letter is more effective even if it is slightly smaller and raised compared to the number.
Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk
Would you prefer syphantic type comments all the time? Or comments which offer some real life customer perspectives and view points?
What is interesting to see, is that as people on the forum get older and rely on the network beyond what was their norm - their perspectives tend to change or evolve from the fanboy of old. Of course there's some that don't change - but that's their porogative.
I find the bus station comments interesting and have been thinking about the reasoning. I agree that the set-up and layout of bus stations will naturally lead to the perception that the number is 'better' on the other side. That's probably because as a nation we are right hand drivers and people board from the left.
However to counter that, the number of bus stations buses serve vs the number of bus stops on a route - it's negligible. If best practice suggests that people prefer the number displayed closest to them, then I'm guessing that's because the majority board at bus stops.
To design a display based on a dozen bus stations across the region vs thousands of bus stops... Not sure the priorities are right on that one mind.
I think the official line was that it reads better. 'X20 to Langley Park' rather than 'Langley Park X20'.
But again, priorities. Do you go with what reads right or go with what works for customers?
(30 Jan 2021, 11:06 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Would you prefer syphantic type comments all the time? Or comments which offer some real life customer perspectives and view points?
What is interesting to see, is that as people on the forum get older and rely on the network beyond what was their norm - their perspectives tend to change or evolve from the fanboy of old. Of course there's some that don't change - but that's their porogative.
I find the bus station comments interesting and have been thinking about the reasoning. I agree that the set-up and layout of bus stations will naturally lead to the perception that the number is 'better' on the other side. That's probably because as a nation we are right hand drivers and people board from the left.
However to counter that, the number of bus stations buses serve vs the number of bus stops on a route - it's negligible. If best practice suggests that people prefer the number displayed closest to them, then I'm guessing that's because the majority board at bus stops.
To design a display based on a dozen bus stations across the region vs thousands of bus stops... Not sure the priorities are right on that one mind.
I think the official line was that it reads better. 'X20 to Langley Park' rather than 'Langley Park X20'.
But again, priorities. Do you go with what reads right or go with what works for customers?
I'm not arguing against people having opinions, I'm just stating that I think GNE are in a no win situation as you can't please everyone.
I agree with the official reasoning as it does read better. I always thought it was a bit odd reading "Durham 21".
I think that in the majority of cases - apart from extremely congested corridors such as Gosforth High Street - you will almost always tend to have sufficient gap between buses to ensure that the blind of one is not obscured by the other. In all honesty as well, in my experience I tend to find that you will always have some who won't pay any attention to the destination blind whatsoever. They'll get on a short Chester 21 or an X1 finishing at the Galleries and give the driver an earful as they're not going any further when it clearly said the terminus on the blind when they got on.
Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk
(30 Jan 2021, 11:06 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Would you prefer syphantic type comments all the time? Or comments which offer some real life customer perspectives and view points?
What is interesting to see, is that as people on the forum get older and rely on the network beyond what was their norm - their perspectives tend to change or evolve from the fanboy of old. Of course there's some that don't change - but that's their porogative.
I find the bus station comments interesting and have been thinking about the reasoning. I agree that the set-up and layout of bus stations will naturally lead to the perception that the number is 'better' on the other side. That's probably because as a nation we are right hand drivers and people board from the left.
However to counter that, the number of bus stations buses serve vs the number of bus stops on a route - it's negligible. If best practice suggests that people prefer the number displayed closest to them, then I'm guessing that's because the majority board at bus stops.
To design a display based on a dozen bus stations across the region vs thousands of bus stops... Not sure the priorities are right on that one mind.
I think the official line was that it reads better. 'X20 to Langley Park' rather than 'Langley Park X20'.
But again, priorities. Do you go with what reads right or go with what works for customers?
I've stood trying to catch the X66 from outside the depot before. It's a real chore if it's an unbranded bus to even see what bus it is. You're relying on the colour of the bus... but as we know, branding is not a promise. It's a concept, something you don't want to gamble being on time for work to guess on. Buses often come along that stretch of road up to Gateshead in 2 or 3 in close proximity. It's impossible to see what the 2nd or 3rd bus is until it's on top of you.
Having the route number being the first thing to reach your eyes in a convoy of vehicles makes sense, rather than a chunk of obscured & fractured via point. I also noted how unusual the "10A" & "1A" looks, it appears as if there's a clump of LEDs not working under it, rather than an intentional feature.
I liked the displays immediately prior to the offside route numbers. Everything was consistent and pretty clear. It worked and caused little fuss.
(30 Jan 2021, 12:00 pm)6049 wrote [ -> ]I'm not arguing against people having opinions, I'm just stating that I think GNE are in a no win situation as you can't please everyone.
I agree with the official reasoning as it does read better. I always thought it was a bit odd reading "Durham 21".
I think that in the majority of cases - apart from extremely congested corridors such as Gosforth High Street - you will almost always tend to have sufficient gap between buses to ensure that the blind of one is not obscured by the other. In all honesty as well, in my experience I tend to find that you will always have some who won't pay any attention to the destination blind whatsoever. They'll get on a short Chester 21 or an X1 finishing at the Galleries and give the driver an earful as they're not going any further when it clearly said the terminus on the blind when they got on.
Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk
Which is quite ironic as it's now harder to see that part of the blind at a bus station.
If it was a problem before, its going to be even more of a problem with the number and destination swapping places on the blind.
(31 Jan 2021, 2:24 am)Jamie M wrote [ -> ]I've stood trying to catch the X66 from outside the depot before. It's a real chore if it's an unbranded bus to even see what bus it is. You're relying on the colour of the bus... but as we know, branding is not a promise. It's a concept, something you don't want to gamble being on time for work to guess on. Buses often come along that stretch of road up to Gateshead in 2 or 3 in close proximity. It's impossible to see what the 2nd or 3rd bus is until it's on top of you.
Having the route number being the first thing to reach your eyes in a convoy of vehicles makes sense, rather than a chunk of obscured & fractured via point. I also noted how unusual the "10A" & "1A" looks, it appears as if there's a clump of LEDs not working under it, rather than an intentional feature.
I liked the displays immediately prior to the offside route numbers. Everything was consistent and pretty clear. It worked and caused little fuss.
And you're a driver...
Imagine the stress of a punter getting on along the road at the Tudor Rose or something.
Chain of buses following each other along the road and Ethel hasn't got a clue which one is hers.
She might end up in Gateshead, she might end up in the town. She may end up letting the buses pass (intentionally or otherwise) and waiting until the next bus comes along. Hopefully it's at the front of the next lot.
Bizarre they are making things difficult just for the sake of it reading better.
I noticed the 2A today with the smaller A certainly looks different on 5475. I think it looks better. Then a 39A passed with a big A - not consistent is it!!!
Tbh it should just be 2 and 3 service scrapping the A
Yesterday I saw a 28A to Kibblesworth (large wording so short service I’m guessing), and it had the small A.
Having the service number on the left of the destination, with the small A too looked terrible.
It was so close to the large destination it looked like ‘28AKibblesworth’.
I also still think the overly bold 53 and 54 looks crap. For the 53/54 numbers playing such a small role on the Voltra branding I don’t know why they’ve felt the need to try and replicate their font on the destination screen. For consistency, ease of reading and to make it look more modern, ditch the ugly bold numbers!
Lastly, considering there’s been so much playing around with destinations recently, I’m surprised to see the X1’s still don’t automatically change to Eldon Square. They ride all the way in displaying ‘Newcastle’.
Have they done this for routes beginning with a letter such as the Ventures and X-lines?
(01 Feb 2021, 11:32 am)reymyster9 wrote [ -> ]Have they done this for routes beginning with a letter such as the Ventures and X-lines?
I think it all depends which way the wind blows and then a decision will be made.
I've heard that next week the prefix letter will be smaller.
The week after that, it will be back to normal size and the numbers will be smaller.
Then they're gonna faff on with some more settings and see what they can come up with for the rest of the month.
There were rumours of the numbers being embedded within a heart for Valentines Day and an animated pancake for Shrove Tuesday.
They tried obtaining the rights to use Mr Chips from Catchphrase, but there was some sort of complication - so they're going to use Pacman eating Easter Eggs in April.
The Easter Eggs will each contain letters of the destination and as the bus gets closer to it, Pacman moves a little closer to the edge and eats another egg/letter.
If the team at Hannover can get it sorted, he's going to be sunbathing in a deckchair on the displays come the summer holidays.
You won't have any idea which bus number it is or where it is going though. But that doesn't seem to be of any concern at the mo for those making the decisions.
(01 Feb 2021, 11:32 am)reymyster9 wrote [ -> ]Have they done this for routes beginning with a letter such as the Ventures and X-lines?
I hope GNE would have some common sense not to do that. There would be a lot of confused passengers hoping to get on a 20 or 21 but getting the express version instead. Combined with the route number being on the offside would mean that the "X" is even harder to see. Both X20 and 20 use Streetlites most of the time, quite a few that are in corporate livery on both routes. Similar example on the X21/ 21, both of them (supposed) to be using Streetdecks or B5TLs (Average passenger can't tell the difference). The looks on peoples faces as they speed past Birtley would be quite something!!
I'm pretty sure GNE wanted to promote the "express" side of the route to stand out so reducing the X wouldn't really help anyway.
(01 Feb 2021, 1:03 pm)Adtrainsam wrote [ -> ]I hope GNE would have some common sense not to do that. There would be a lot of confused passengers hoping to get on a 20 or 21 but getting the express version instead. Combined with the route number being on the offside would mean that the "X" is even harder to see. Both X20 and 20 use Streetlites most of the time, quite a few that are in corporate livery on both routes. Similar example on the X21/ 21, both of them (supposed) to be using Streetdecks or B5TLs (Average passenger can't tell the difference). The looks on peoples faces as they speed past Birtley would be quite something!!
I'm pretty sure GNE wanted to promote the "express" side of the route to stand out so reducing the X wouldn't really help anyway.
They'll likely change it at some point, saying it's a better idea or something. For example, when they first experimented with the LH RN they said that it was fine on the Yutongs as you could see the massive green led strip and identify it as the 53/54. Fast forward 2 months and now all vehicles have it where possible, and for example, on corp livery vehicles you can't distinguish what route it is apart from the destination. At this point they're just making changes for the fun of it. I cant see a viable reason to make the letters smaller other than the possibility of conflicting digits such as 8 and B being mistaken.
(01 Feb 2021, 12:48 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]I think it all depends which way the wind blows and then a decision will be made.
I've heard that next week the prefix letter will be smaller.
The week after that, it will be back to normal size and the numbers will be smaller.
Then they're gonna faff on with some more settings and see what they can come up with for the rest of the month.
There were rumours of the numbers being embedded within a heart for Valentines Day and an animated pancake for Shrove Tuesday.
They tried obtaining the rights to use Mr Chips from Catchphrase, but there was some sort of complication - so they're going to use Pacman eating Easter Eggs in April.
The Easter Eggs will each contain letters of the destination and as the bus gets closer to it, Pacman moves a little closer to the edge and eats another egg/letter.
If the team at Hannover can get it sorted, he's going to be sunbathing in a deckchair on the displays come the summer holidays.
You won't have any idea which bus number it is or where it is going though. But that doesn't seem to be of any concern at the mo for those making the decisions.
What a mess that'd be haha. Maybe flashing so you get alerted to the destination, and moving the route number from left to right so everyone can see it!
![[Image: 3i5j48myj5.gif]](https://i.ibb.co/7vZS4BM/3i5j48myj5.gif)
(01 Feb 2021, 3:35 pm)reymyster9 wrote [ -> ]What a mess that'd be haha. Maybe flashing so you get alerted to the destination, and moving the route number from left to right so everyone can see it!
Dont give them any more ideas :grin:
I wear glasses,and i even i struggle to read 1A and 1B now, lol wont be long until the old excuse of 'we shouldnt have A's and B's cus it causes confusion' line is used again,i dont know what was wrong with the way it was, before the Arial font kicked in (whenever that was)
(01 Feb 2021, 4:33 pm)ne14ne1 wrote [ -> ]London uses small letters on Night & Express services but their destinations are much clearer being either blinds or digital paper screens, along with having the numbers to the right, no via points, and maybe often approaching at slower speeds too:
https://flic.kr/p/2kk7MQd
https://flic.kr/p/2khiVru
https://flic.kr/p/29tR77W
Noticed that London have started using LED screens on some of there buses aswell -
https://i.ibb.co/F4X3kfZ/kim-rennie-25.jpg but the operators aren't too keen as the displays cost a fortune as they're high resolution.
Be interesting to see the future whether they'll become nationwide though as they're much clearer when the tech gets cheaper and look much better than the current LED screens.
(01 Feb 2021, 10:14 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Noticed that London have started using LED screens on some of there buses aswell - https://i.ibb.co/F4X3kfZ/kim-rennie-25.jpg but the operators aren't too keen as the displays cost a fortune as they're high resolution.
Be interesting to see the future whether they'll become nationwide though as they're much clearer when the tech gets cheaper and look much better than the current LED screens.
Those hi-res blinds are fantastic. I could be wrong but I'm sure Lothian had some B7RLEs with them as a trial?
(01 Feb 2021, 11:31 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]Those hi-res blinds are fantastic. I could be wrong but I'm sure Lothian had some B7RLEs with them as a trial?
Honestly not too sure with Lothian but they've just been launched in the past few months -
http://www.transportengineer.org.uk/tran...ds/231212/.
You'd never know it's a LED display looking at the photo on there, shame we'll probably not see them up here for years - even known they're actually something useful especially with smaller fonts which aren't the easiest to read at times.