North East Buses

(08 Aug 2021, 7:46 am)Metroline1511 wrote [ -> ]On one of my days in Newcastle in June, I started my day travelling Newcastle - Peterlee - Durham - Stanley - Newcastle.  I rode just Go North East buses that day.  I am disappointed at the withdrawal of route 208 linking Peterlee with Durham, even though it is slower than Arriva.

Given their decent local networks in Durham & Peterlee and the fact GNE have Peterlee to Sunderland sewn up -  it would be interesting if GNE went in for the kill on the direct Durham - Peterlee 22/24 services. It could sway users on both ends onto GNE season tickets over Arriva.

Perhaps it would be too much of a direct swipe at a bus war when the government are still subsidising operations. That’s if Arriva could put up much of a fight, they seem fairly paralysed at the moment.

(08 Aug 2021, 1:26 pm)James101 wrote [ -> ]Given their decent local networks in Durham & Peterlee and the fact GNE have Peterlee to Sunderland sewn up -  it would be interesting if GNE went in for the kill on the direct Durham - Peterlee 22/24 services. It could sway users on both ends onto GNE season tickets over Arriva.

Perhaps it would be too much of a direct swipe at a bus war when the government are still subsidising operations. That’s if Arriva could put up much of a fight, they seem fairly paralysed at the moment.

GNE really don't have Peterlee to Sunderland sewn up. More people use the 22 and 23 than the GNE services.

(08 Aug 2021, 1:26 pm)James101 wrote [ -> ]Given their decent local networks in Durham & Peterlee and the fact GNE have Peterlee to Sunderland sewn up -  it would be interesting if GNE went in for the kill on the direct Durham - Peterlee 22/24 services. It could sway users on both ends onto GNE season tickets over Arriva.

Perhaps it would be too much of a direct swipe at a bus war when the government are still subsidising operations. That’s if Arriva could put up much of a fight, they seem fairly paralysed at the moment.

I'm not trying to be funny but GNE really don't have the Peterlee area sewn up. They've been backing out of the area for years now if anything and are losing against Arriva big time. X35 to Hartlepool being the big one, now they've totally backed out from going towards Durham aswell. It doesn't help that it's all local services connecting at the bus station. No-one can be chewed to sit on a 206 to then change to 62 to go to Sunderland (via the world) or you can just get on a 23/24 and go direct to Sunderland / Durham / Hartlepool.

Imo they're lucky that Arriva are 'paralysed' atm as they could wipe them out pretty easily, similar in other areas aswell (North Tyneside in particular).

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Also to the minibuses comments, fair enough was just an open answer guess there will be enough then wasn't sure.

(08 Aug 2021, 2:20 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Imo they're lucky that Arriva are 'paralysed' atm as they could wipe them out pretty easily, similar in other areas aswell (North Tyneside in particular).

I wouldn't say wipe out considering GNE are looking into an EV solution for their Cobalt & Coast routes and have actually reverted them back to their full Jan 2020 PVR rather than cutting back.

Arriva on the other hand still haven't invested in their alleged "goldmine" route despite the VDL DB300s approaching 10 year old. Arriva will always have the slight edge between Blyth and Rake Lane even if they went down to every 20 mins because "it goes up the motorway". But GNE now have an extremely competitive offering between Battle Hill and Newcastle along the Coast Road corridor.

Arriva invest

(08 Aug 2021, 2:55 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]I wouldn't say wipe out considering GNE are looking into an EV solution for their Cobalt & Coast routes and have actually reverted them back to their full Jan 2020 PVR rather than cutting back.

Arriva on the other hand still haven't invested in their alleged "goldmine" route despite the VDL DB300s approaching 10 year old. Arriva will always have the slight edge between Blyth and Rake Lane even if they went down to every 20 mins because "it goes up the motorway". But GNE now have an extremely competitive offering between Battle Hill and Newcastle along the Coast Road corridor.

Theres also areas in North Tyneside Arriva wont touch with the same kind of demand as GNE,Wallsend being one that springs to mind, all Arriva have is the 553 that is usually ran with 13 year old knackered Solo's, even the older solo's on the Little Coasters are newer than that

(08 Aug 2021, 2:55 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]I wouldn't say wipe out considering GNE are looking into an EV solution for their Cobalt & Coast routes and have actually reverted them back to their full Jan 2020 PVR rather than cutting back.

Arriva on the other hand still haven't invested in their alleged "goldmine" route despite the VDL DB300s approaching 10 year old. Arriva will always have the slight edge between Blyth and Rake Lane even if they went down to every 20 mins because "it goes up the motorway". But GNE now have an extremely competitive offering between Battle Hill and Newcastle along the Coast Road corridor.

In fairness I was talking about the rest of the network rather than the Coast Road. The Streetlites on the 1 which has been just been dropped to every 20 minutes for example and the rest of the network which is ran by GCT in the evening (when they bother to run that is). If Arriva if we're actually in the mood to take routes they could easily extend all the 306's through with brand new buses and really hit the 1 hard on the Coast especially with all the connections Arriva offer at Whitley to everywhere. Obviously that won't be happening though. Stagecoach have already hit hard the rest of the route with the 22 extension to Cobalt.

(08 Aug 2021, 3:35 pm)V514DFT wrote [ -> ]Theres also areas in North Tyneside Arriva wont touch with the same kind of demand as GNE,Wallsend being one that springs to mind, all Arriva have is the 553 that is usually ran with 13 year old knackered Solo's, even the older solo's on the Little Coasters are newer than that

Not sure why Arriva would serve Wallsend that's Stagecoach territory and they've been doing a good job at being a pest aswell towards GNE (22 extension to Cobalt in particular).

Anyway that was about Peterlee not North Tyneside, don't want to drag it into another North Tyneside thread there's been enough.

(08 Aug 2021, 4:32 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]In fairness I was talking about the rest of the network rather than the Coast Road. The Streetlites on the 1 which has been just been dropped to every 20 minutes for example and the rest of the network which is ran by GCT in the evening (when they bother to run that is). If Arriva if we're actually in the mood to take routes they could easily extend all the 306's through with brand new buses and really hit the 1 hard on the Coast especially with all the connections Arriva offer at Whitley to everywhere. Obviously that won't be happening though. Stagecoach have already hit hard the rest of the route with the 22 extension to Cobalt.


Not sure why Arriva would serve Wallsend that's Stagecoach territory and they've been doing a good job at being a pest aswell towards GNE (22 extension to Cobalt in particular).

Anyway that was about Peterlee not North Tyneside, don't want to drag it into another North Tyneside thread there's been enough.

Imo with GCT or any bus company, only one company should run a route either give a route to GNE who will brand, look after and can be arsed to keep there buses running, or GCT to run them. Bus routes should **not** be split between companies. All DB have given up with Arriva I think they will start selling there depots off.

(08 Aug 2021, 4:32 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]In fairness I was talking about the rest of the network rather than the Coast Road. The Streetlites on the 1 which has been just been dropped to every 20 minutes for example and the rest of the network which is ran by GCT in the evening (when they bother to run that is). If Arriva if we're actually in the mood to take routes they could easily extend all the 306's through with brand new buses and really hit the 1 hard on the Coast especially with all the connections Arriva offer at Whitley to everywhere. Obviously that won't be happening though. Stagecoach have already hit hard the rest of the route with the 22 extension 

To be fair, I think the allocation of Volvo B5LHs on the Coaster was just to stick them on another route rather than there actually being a need for deckers (except Mouth of Tyne or Metro disruption). But even for MOT, spare B9TLs could be allocated on Sundays when not needed on the 309/310/311.

306 is an interesting one. Personal opinion, they're only running down there to maintain a Marden-Newcastle link. That could easily be served by a revised 51A also replacing the 359.

GCT are receiving some brand new Merc soon. They've probably got one of the youngest fleets on the road.

(08 Aug 2021, 2:55 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]I wouldn't say wipe out considering GNE are looking into an EV solution for their Cobalt & Coast routes and have actually reverted them back to their full Jan 2020 PVR rather than cutting back.

Arriva on the other hand still haven't invested in their alleged "goldmine" route despite the VDL DB300s approaching 10 year old. Arriva will always have the slight edge between Blyth and Rake Lane even if they went down to every 20 mins because "it goes up the motorway". But GNE now have an extremely competitive offering between Battle Hill and Newcastle along the Coast Road corridor.

EV Solutions are being looked at on four corridors into Newcastle. Majority by Zebra (not the operators) and backed by TNE as part of their bus strategy.
This includes the Coast Road, West Road, Great North Road and Durham Road.

So yeah, technically, Stagecoach are looking into EV for West Road and Arriva are looking into EV for Great North Road.
As mentioned in other threads - there are no such things as 'goldmine' routes anymore. at 65% passenger levels, everything is still heavily loss making. Even the government is only predicting 80% return by next April (hence GNE committing to changing things now, knowing fine well that some of these more marginal networks will never, ever be commercially viable anymore.

(08 Aug 2021, 8:01 pm)RobinHood wrote [ -> ]EV Solutions are being looked at on four corridors into Newcastle. Majority by Zebra (not the operators) and backed by TNE as part of their bus strategy.
This includes the Coast Road, West Road, Great North Road and Durham Road.

So yeah, technically, Stagecoach are looking into EV for West Road and Arriva are looking into EV for Great North Road.
As mentioned in other threads - there are no such things as 'goldmine' routes anymore. at 65% passenger levels, everything is still heavily loss making. Even the government is only predicting 80% return by next April (hence GNE committing to changing things now, knowing fine well that some of these more marginal networks will never, ever be commercially viable anymore.

West Road & Great North Road? Is there an existing publication with that in?

No doubt if Jesmond got EV's for the 43/44/45 they'd end up spending half their time on the 306 given Arriva's track record for allocations!

Why are there Biddick - Galleries 2A shorts on the Evenings in the New Timetable.

Just had amusing thoughts about the Sunderland District brands....

The Sunderland District Violet becomes violent.
Someone gets Merry on the Berries.
The Cherry will pop.
The Blonde will forget where it's going.
You shiver on the Silver.
The Graphite will leave a mark.
The blue will leave you feeling depressed.

And at the end of it, you can drift away on a drifter if it becomes part of Sunderland District.

(08 Aug 2021, 9:27 pm)Rapidsnap wrote [ -> ]Just had amusing thoughts about the Sunderland District brands....

The Sunderland District Violet becomes violent.
Someone gets Merry on the Berries.
The Cherry will pop.
The Blonde will forget where it's going.
You shiver on the Silver.
The Graphite will leave a mark.
The blue will leave you feeling depressed.

And at the end of it, you can drift away on a drifter if it becomes part of Sunderland District.

Like it I enjoy a good laugh

It does say on the new X6 timetable they do advertise the Drifter 60 service as the Sunderland District Drifter 60. But tbh I just want to keep the normal liverys, the news ones have been boring and not very creative. Peterlee Purples, Berries, Blue. I like Graphite & Blonde & Silver if I am honest. But why not just go back to the Doxford Clipper or some better older names. Like for Peterlee just call them the City Links, Peterlee Connect, or just something better. 

Berries - InterCity Links | SimplCity
Blue -
Cherry - Just go back to the LASER.
Voilet - 

These names are just bad, and the paintwork just has massive gaps with nothing but either the Pink of the berries. On the Cherry & Voilet (which again is a bad name). I think GNE have given up on really creative liverys. I mean they did the Connections 4, Little Pinks I liked, City Rider, Loop, 58 they were good. But these sunderland ones not only bar really Graphite do they have a bad name, the liveries are boring. And where it says the locations across the top it doesn't even have that number route.

Can anyone think of better names?

No point calling the Berries "Intercity links" as it only goes to one City.

The blue one is a disappointing one, could have branded the 61 as Graphite / coal instead with the coal mining history in the area.

And just have the 39 as the blue brand as the Sunderland District Bluebell.

(09 Aug 2021, 10:45 am)Keeiajs wrote [ -> ]It does say on the new X6 timetable they do advertise the Drifter 60 service as the Sunderland District Drifter 60. But tbh I just want to keep the normal liverys, the news ones have been boring and not very creative. Peterlee Purples, Berries, Blue. I like Graphite & Blonde & Silver if I am honest. But why not just go back to the Doxford Clipper or some better older names. Like for Peterlee just call them the City Links, Peterlee Connect, or just something better. 

Berries - InterCity Links | SimplCity
Blue -
Cherry - Just go back to the LASER.
Voilet - 

These names are just bad, and the paintwork just has massive gaps with nothing but either the Pink of the berries. On the Cherry & Voilet (which again is a bad name). I think GNE have given up on really creative liverys. I mean they did the Connections 4, Little Pinks I liked, City Rider, Loop, 58 they were good. But these sunderland ones not only bar really Graphite do they have a bad name, the liveries are boring. And where it says the locations across the top it doesn't even have that number route.

Can you remember how awful the Laser branding was? Especially the second incarnation... 


Go North East / 5304 by Buses&Beyond, on Flickr

SimpliCity was ok, but operators need to be looking forwards - not backwards. We cannot keep harping back to the past, when evidently it didn't work, as passenger numbers declined year on year until 2019.

Laser was the most useless brand name ever.

(09 Aug 2021, 11:03 am)Rapidsnap wrote [ -> ]Laser was the most useless brand name ever.

Maybe it was, but its better than some of the new branding, "BLUE" like seriously. A bit more creative would be nice

(09 Aug 2021, 11:09 am)Keeiajs wrote [ -> ]Maybe it was, but its better than some of the new branding, "BLUE" like seriously. A bit more creative would be nice

The whole point of the new branding scheme in Sunderland is that it's based around colours, so Blue is one of the more sane options.

I personally hate the 'Blonde' brand, why not just go for yellow?.

Then again, if it's based around colours, where did Berries and Cherry come from?

(09 Aug 2021, 11:34 am)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]The whole point of the new branding scheme in Sunderland is that it's based around colours, so Blue is one of the more sane options.

I personally hate the 'Blonde' brand, why not just go for yellow?.

Then again, if it's based around colours, where did Berries and Cherry come from?

To me its the names and branding, they are just boring. Look at BLUE, you have the destinations along the top, and the word blue and a parrot. Just a bit more detail would be nice.

(09 Aug 2021, 11:47 am)Keeiajs wrote [ -> ]To me its the names and branding, they are just boring. Look at BLUE, you have the destinations along the top, and the word blue and a parrot. Just a bit more detail would be nice.

But arguably its easy to understand. You need the cherry route to go here, blue route to go there, and so on. I think some of the choices could have been better, but the idea of having them around colours is probably good from a marketing perspective.

(09 Aug 2021, 11:55 am)Adrian wrote [ -> ]But arguably its easy to understand. You need the cherry route to go here, blue route to go there, and so on. I think some of the choices could have been better, but the idea of having them around colours is probably good from a marketing perspective.

To me, route branding makes buses easier to understand for the average person, as long as the branding is unique per route.

The Angel is a perfect example. 
If I say to someone go Eldon Square and get The Angel, it's obvious which bus to get. 

In the past, I could have said to someone get The Castles Express, and it too would have been obvious. But with the roll out of X-Lines, I think while it has made a more cohesive network, it has taken away some of the ease. Visually, the distinction is still there though which is good.

So, I think I am a fan of the concept behind the Sunderland District network, just perhaps not some of design choices!

(09 Aug 2021, 12:08 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]To me, route branding makes buses easier to understand for the average person, as long as the branding is unique per route.

The Angel is a perfect example. 
If I say to someone go Eldon Square and get The Angel, it's obvious which bus to get. 

In the past, I could have said to someone get The Castles Express, and it too would have been obvious. But with the roll out of X-Lines, I think while it has made a more cohesive network, it has taken away some of the ease. Visually, the distinction is still there though which is good.

So, I think I am a fan of the concept behind the Sunderland District network, just perhaps not some of design choices!

I agree

(07 Aug 2021, 11:23 pm)6049 wrote [ -> ]Can't help but wonder if the stand allocations are correct or if there's been a gremlin in the system somewhere. The changes in Eldon Square add up but the changes in the Galleries seem odd. X1 now running off Stand C to Easington Lane, Peterlee and Dalton Park along with the 50, while the minibuses are switched to Stand A with the 4.

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

It was constant chaos having the X1 and the 4 (plus the 8, in one direction) all running from the same stand.

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(09 Aug 2021, 12:08 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]To me, route branding makes buses easier to understand for the average person, as long as the branding is unique per route.

The Angel is a perfect example. 
If I say to someone go Eldon Square and get The Angel, it's obvious which bus to get. 

In the past, I could have said to someone get The Castles Express, and it too would have been obvious. But with the roll out of X-Lines, I think while it has made a more cohesive network, it has taken away some of the ease. Visually, the distinction is still there though which is good.

So, I think I am a fan of the concept behind the Sunderland District network, just perhaps not some of design choices!

If yiu told someone to catch the angel from Eldon Square, they would have no idea which stand to look for.

(09 Aug 2021, 12:40 pm)BusLoverMum wrote [ -> ]It was constant chaos having the X1 and the 4 (plus the 8, in one direction) all running from the same stand.

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If yiu told someone to catch the angel from Eldon Square, they would have no idea which stand to look for.

If I told you to catch Sapphire or Max from Stand A

(09 Aug 2021, 12:40 pm)BusLoverMum wrote [ -> ]It was constant chaos having the X1 and the 4 (plus the 8, in one direction) all running from the same stand.

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If yiu told someone to catch the angel from Eldon Square, they would have no idea which stand to look for.

To be fair, if I told someone to catch the 21 they'd be equally buggered given the lack of signposting and working displays in Eldon Square!

(09 Aug 2021, 10:57 am)Rapidsnap wrote [ -> ]No point calling the Berries "Intercity links" as it only goes to one City.

The blue one is a disappointing one, could have branded the 61 as Graphite / coal instead with the coal mining history in the area.

And just have the 39 as the blue brand as the Sunderland District Bluebell.

Yes it’s a shame with the 61, Seaham and Murton’s mining heritage could have been linked in. I’ve just noticed the 61 PDF new timetable has an error, towards Sunderland Station Estate and Webb Avenue are the wrong way round.

I must also say that I’m not a fan of what they’re trying to do in Sunderland, I get it what it’s about but it’s almost as if they’re trying to do two things at once, have colour names but also names that sort of mean something. And you’re left with names that are vaguely colours, such as Berries, Cherries, Graphite. Violets and Blonde which are a bit more colourful and then Blue which feels a bit like someone ran out of ideas and wanted a vague link to Drifter 60. If it’s just colours, why not have more explicit colours like “Little Pinks” or “Peterlee Purples”, things like Cherries and Violets I just can’t see them catching on/resonating with the general public. On the previous page we’re saying that things like “Laser” were pointless/meaningless brands and whilst maybe true, that sort of one word brands were easy to remember and didn’t feel childish, I for one used to call it “The Laser” and not the 35, we did used to joke the Laser went around the world from Houghton to Sunderland but we still called it the Laser! So whilst it didn’t mean much, it stuck to me at least. 

Can I ask/confirm that Blonde is going to be the brand for the 38 and 33?

(09 Aug 2021, 1:04 pm)Drifter60 wrote [ -> ]Yes it’s a shame with the 61, Seaham and Murton’s mining heritage could have been linked in. I’ve just noticed the 61 PDF new timetable has an error, towards Sunderland Station Estate and Webb Avenue are the wrong way round.

I must also say that I’m not a fan of what they’re trying to do in Sunderland, I get it what it’s about but it’s almost as if they’re trying to do two things at once, have colour names but also names that sort of mean something. And you’re left with names that are vaguely colours, such as Berries, Cherries, Graphite. Violets and Blonde which are a bit more colourful and then Blue which feels a bit like someone ran out of ideas and wanted a vague link to Drifter 60. If it’s just colours, why not have more explicit colours like “Little Pinks” or “Peterlee Purples”, things like Cherries and Violets I just can’t see them catching on/resonating with the general public. On the previous page we’re saying that things like “Laser” were pointless/meaningless brands and whilst maybe true, that sort of one word brands were easy to remember and didn’t feel childish, I for one used to call it “The Laser” and not the 35, we did used to joke the Laser went around the world from Houghton to Sunderland but we still called it the Laser! So whilst it didn’t mean much, it stuck to me at least. 

Can I ask/confirm that Blonde is going to be the brand for the 38 and 33?

I am on sure which one is getting which but Silver or Blonde but they are going on 38 or 33 or vicea versa

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A bus branding is something you can call a bus :

Drifter
Angel
red Kite
TyneDale Links 
IndiGO, imagine saying I am getting on the Cherry or Violet. Or the Blue. A cheap connection to the Drifter.