Another example of what happens when bus services are run for profit, not public good. Thousands of people will be impacted by these changes and have absolutely no say in them. Bus services should be geared around social benefits, not whether or not there is sufficient 'demand'.
In what part of the changes are major impacted that bad he's needed to write a letter (more than likely an email as I don't think the chronicle know the word email)
(16 Aug 2021, 2:26 pm)ne14ne1 wrote [ -> ]“Go North East urged to ‘seriously reconsider’ wholesale changes to timetable from next month”:
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...s-21313068
https://twitter.com/platformtwptug/statu...87648?s=21
Agree but if not enough customers use a service to sustainably cover the cost, then what point is there running it?
It's all good GNE "keeping a few punters happy" and running their fleet into the ground to do that. But how long could they reasonably sustain that approach? Just look at what's happening up in Northumberland. Eventually, they'll need to play catch up due to years of underinvestment.
(16 Aug 2021, 3:24 pm)Train8261 wrote [ -> ]Another example of what happens when bus services are run for profit, not public good. Thousands of people will be impacted by these changes and have absolutely no say in them. Bus services should be geared around social benefits, not whether or not there is sufficient 'demand'.
In what part of the changes are major impacted that bad he's needed to write a letter (more than likely an email as I don't think the chronicle know the word email)
But the thing is it comes down to money, and honestly there hasn't been any really major changes except 62/65/208 really.
But that fact is why run a bus service if there isn't enough people on it throughout the day. Like the 71 was meant to be withdrawn but its been brought back due to demand
(16 Aug 2021, 3:49 pm)Keeiajs wrote [ -> ]But the thing is it comes down to money, and honestly there hasn't been any really major changes except 62/65/208 really.
Major for whom?
An enthusiast may look at these changes and come to the conclusion that they are minor based upon things such as branding, route changes, or PVR. However, for someone who may live in Catchgate and work at the Metrocentre, to use an example, to find out their daily commute has changed might represent a significant and major change.
While these changes don't directly affect me, I'm also not dismissive about how these changes might affect others. I think some enthusiasts would do well to bear that in mind before jumping to the defence of their 'favourite bus company' or whatever.
(16 Aug 2021, 4:31 pm)MurdnunoC wrote [ -> ]Major for whom?
An enthusiast may look at these changes and come to the conclusion that they are minor based upon things such as branding, route changes, or PVR. However, for someone who may live in Catchgate and work at the Metrocentre, to use an example, to find out their daily commute has changed might represent a significant and major change.
While these changes don't directly affect me, I'm also not dismissive about how these changes might affect others. I think some enthusiasts would do well to bear that in mind before jumping to the defence of their 'favourite bus company' or whatever.
But they haven't made any really drastic service changes they haven't cut off a area, or just abandoned it they tried to add service and re-route rounts. However if they can't make money and are losing money on routes its not GNE's fault.
(16 Aug 2021, 4:58 pm)MurdnunoC wrote [ -> ]Point proven. Cheers.
idk what point you have proven, I am just being realistic
(16 Aug 2021, 4:31 pm)MurdnunoC wrote [ -> ]Major for whom?
An enthusiast may look at these changes and come to the conclusion that they are minor based upon things such as branding, route changes, or PVR. However, for someone who may live in Catchgate and work at the Metrocentre, to use an example, to find out their daily commute has changed might represent a significant and major change.
While these changes don't directly affect me, I'm also not dismissive about how these changes might affect others. I think some enthusiasts would do well to bear that in mind before jumping to the defence of their 'favourite bus company' or whatever.
But there's repaints, new allocations and stuff!
Surely that's more of a priority and exciting than people being unable to get to work any more or seeing councils fill up the corporate begging bowl?
(16 Aug 2021, 3:24 pm)Train8261 wrote [ -> ]Another example of what happens when bus services are run for profit, not public good. Thousands of people will be impacted by these changes and have absolutely no say in them. Bus services should be geared around social benefits, not whether or not there is sufficient 'demand'.
In what part of the changes are major impacted that bad he's needed to write a letter (more than likely an email as I don't think the chronicle know the word email)
There are only two revenue streams though, the fare payer & the tax payer. Unless an honest debate is had by all sides about how you bridge the gap between the total cost of running a service and the price paid by the user, we wont get anywhere.
(16 Aug 2021, 3:24 pm)Train8261 wrote [ -> ]Another example of what happens when bus services are run for profit, not public good. Thousands of people will be impacted by these changes and have absolutely no say in them. Bus services should be geared around social benefits, not whether or not there is sufficient 'demand'.
In what part of the changes are major impacted that bad he's needed to write a letter (more than likely an email as I don't think the chronicle know the word email)
I’m still not sure how GNE know what the demand will be when we continue to come out of lockdown. Many people have not gone properly back to work in the office, I also expect many were not going out for leisure purposes as much as previously due to being a bit nervous or due to all the general faff it was, but they will do. It all seems too premature to me.
(16 Aug 2021, 5:10 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]But there's repaints, new allocations and stuff!
Surely that's more of a priority and exciting than people being unable to get to work any more or seeing councils fill up the corporate begging bowl?
The answers you seek can be found in the Gospel of St Gilbert the Great (16:8).
(16 Aug 2021, 5:10 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]But there's repaints, new allocations and stuff!
Surely that's more of a priority and exciting than people being unable to get to work any more or seeing councils fill up the corporate begging bowl?
Well it's surely more exciting than getting to the point of being unable to sustainably & reliably deliver a service to customers even on the major trunk routes because of an aging fleet.
Blyth depot's youngest decker will be 10 year old come December / January not forgetting that they're a lightweight vehicle type. God knows what's happening at Jesmond and at Ashington, the Alnwick/Berwick 'X' routes are in need of an upgrade.
How are Arriva going to do achieve the above? Only way they can (unless they just stick a plaster over the issue with ex-London cascades by large) will be to cut and streamline their network.
(16 Aug 2021, 6:11 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]Well it's surely more exciting than getting to the point of being unable to sustainably & reliably deliver a service to customers even on the major trunk routes because of an aging fleet.
Blyth depot's youngest decker will be 10 year old come December / January not forgetting that they're a lightweight vehicle type. God knows what's happening at Jesmond and at Ashington, the Alnwick/Berwick 'X' routes are in need of an upgrade.
How are Arriva going to do achieve the above? Only way they can (unless they just stick a plaster over the issue with ex-London cascades by large) will be to cut and streamline their network.
Could of sworn this was a GNE thread...
(16 Aug 2021, 6:24 pm)RobinHood wrote [ -> ]Could of sworn this was a GNE thread...
Of course it is but just using it as an example.
GNE could've just carried on as they were and kept fragmented and unprofitable services / networks running that just weren't sustainable in the long term looking at the bigger picture.
Sadly, some customers will lose links but that's the way it is. GNE are a business and they need to sustain themselves going forward in many ways.
(16 Aug 2021, 6:11 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]Well it's surely more exciting than getting to the point of being unable to sustainably & reliably deliver a service to customers even on the major trunk routes because of an aging fleet.
Blyth depot's youngest decker will be 10 year old come December / January not forgetting that they're a lightweight vehicle type. God knows what's happening at Jesmond and at Ashington, the Alnwick/Berwick 'X' routes are in need of an upgrade.
How are Arriva going to do achieve the above? Only way they can (unless they just stick a plaster over the issue with ex-London cascades by large) will be to cut and streamline their network.
You do realise investments and cutting services aren't connected.
The fact Arriva made a profit before the pandemic puts it in a much better place than GNE. If Arriva bought new buses then the cost of them would be offset from the benefits to customers and potential growth.
From an investors point of view GNE is by far the weakest out the three as there's no ability to grow the business and it doesn't make a profit anyway hence the only thing they can do is cut cut cut.
Funnily even known Arriva is so bad they've won the bus wars in both North Tyneside and Peterlee and they've done absolutely nothing, imagine if they actually done something what they could do.
It is amusing when you see newspaper articles or facebook complaints about services being cut, but when the service being cut carries fresh air all day then somehow 2-300 people sign a petition to keep it running, if only those 2-300 people used the service in the first place it wouldn't get taken away, it simply is use it or loose it
(16 Aug 2021, 6:50 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]You do realise investments and cutting services aren't connected.
The fact Arriva made a profit before the pandemic puts it in a much better place than GNE. If Arriva bought new buses then the cost of them would be offset from the benefits to customers and potential growth.
From an investors point of view GNE is by far the weakest out the three as there's no ability to grow the business and it doesn't make a profit anyway hence the only thing they can do is cut cut cut.
Funnily even known Arriva is so bad they've won the bus wars in both North Tyneside and Peterlee and they've done absolutely nothing, imagine if they actually done something what they could do.
But how did Arriva achieve a profit? Only investment since September 2014 in Northumbria has been 7541-52 and thats it. If Arriva/DB actually replaced the following (based on pre-covid):
- 10x 308 + 1x spare
- 13x X10/X11 + 1x spare
- 10x X15/X18 + 1x spare
That's 36x vehicles and based on a list price of £250,000 (could be more), that's nearly £9M. And........if they spent on the other outlying services too (X7/X8/X9 & X14/X20), that total would increase yet again.
So in short, Arriva have achieved a profit but what's their long term outlook? They're going to need to spend sooner or later and the only way they'll be able to afford to spend will be to reduce PVR's which means cutting services.
GNE do actually have some capacity to grow and funnily enough, Arriva would have big potential with the right investment and strategy going forward.
North Tyneside.........Stagecoach I'd say yes with the 22 but not much bite from Arriva considering GNE's recent investment & changes to the 309/310/311 not forgetting the potential for EV operation if the bid is successful.
I noticed that some of the timetable logo's have changed on the GNE site... so the likes of "Sunderland District Berries" appear for the 2/2A, "Sunderland District Blue" for the 61 etc