North East Buses

Best of luck to those who are affected, no other way to put it but GNE is a right basket case of a company lately.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-63950424

(14 Dec 2022, 3:55 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Best of luck to those who are affected, no other way to put it but GNE is a right basket case of a company lately.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-63950424

I'm unsure whether this is unexpected or not.
They're clearly looking to make those cost savings vs growth and I'm not sure if it's the correct move.

Mind, a nice incentivised switch from back office to front-line should help out with the driver shortage!

(14 Dec 2022, 3:55 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Best of luck to those who are affected, no other way to put it but GNE is a right basket case of a company lately.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-63950424

Not just GNE, looks like Transdev is not looking so hot either.  Rumours are that Malton depot are loosing £1m a year and are looking to cut the Leeds to Whitby Coastliner service next year unless they get some funding for it.

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/tra...by-3950498

Oh, happy Christmas, eh?

(14 Dec 2022, 4:12 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]I'm unsure whether this is unexpected or not.
They're clearly looking to make those cost savings vs growth and I'm not sure if it's the correct move.

Mind, a nice incentivised switch from back office to front-line should help out with the driver shortage!

It'll be interesting how it all ends up as reading through the lines, 'Workers have claimed they will have to reapply for their jobs.' That sounds badly like fire and rehire which never ever goes down well especially if the terms are worse. Wonder if the engineering strikes behind the scenes are related to it aswell.

(14 Dec 2022, 5:06 pm)citaro5284 wrote [ -> ]Not just GNE, looks like Transdev is not looking so hot either.  Rumours are that Malton depot are loosing £1m a year and are looking to cut the Leeds to Whitby Coastliner service next year unless they get some funding for it.

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/tra...by-3950498

Not looking good there, mind surprised it's fully commercial. It'll be interesting if some of the more on edge companies, in particular First, which has been struggling long before the pandemic survive long term. I seen they've just pulled out of Southampton completely aswell.

Its only 25% of jobs will be full lost, 23-25 it says in the article.

(14 Dec 2022, 5:06 pm)citaro5284 wrote [ -> ]Not just GNE, looks like Transdev is not looking so hot either.  Rumours are that Malton depot are loosing £1m a year and are looking to cut the Leeds to Whitby Coastliner service next year unless they get some funding for it.

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/tra...by-3950498

I'm seeing a theme here and it's not the Emmerdale opening credits.

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(14 Dec 2022, 6:37 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ] It'll be interesting how it all ends up as reading through the lines, 'Workers have claimed they will have to reapply for their jobs.' That sounds badly like fire and rehire which never ever goes down well especially if the terms are worse. Wonder if the engineering strikes behind the scenes are related to it aswell.


Not looking good there, mind surprised it's fully commercial. It'll be interesting if some of the more on edge companies, in particular First, which has been struggling long before the pandemic survive long term. I seen they've just pulled out of Southampton completely aswell.

NF has quite the reputation when it comes to this sort of thing.

On a serious note..........

- GNE might want to close another depot?

- ANE could "do" with a North Tyneside / Newcastle based depot but don't have the money to build a new one.

Simple solution would be for both to negotiate and do a "workforce swap". Effectively, ANE's Walkergate staff TUPE to GNE, move to Riverside and GNE run the 1/309/310/311/327 out of there.

In turn, GNE's Percy Main staff TUPE to Arriva and in turn all the ex Jesmond routes as well as the 19/41/41A operate out of Percy Main...........then when the developers knocking houses up around Norham Road area come knocking.......Arriva effectively get a new depot funded.

(14 Dec 2022, 7:36 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]On a serious note..........

- GNE might want to close another depot?

- ANE could "do" with a North Tyneside / Newcastle based depot but don't have the money to build a new one.

Simple solution would be for both to negotiate and do a "workforce swap". Effectively, ANE's Walkergate staff TUPE to GNE, move to Riverside and GNE run the 1/309/310/311/327 out of there.

In turn, GNE's Percy Main staff TUPE to Arriva and in turn all the ex Jesmond routes as well as the 19/41/41A operate out of Percy Main...........then when the developers knocking houses up around Norham Road area come knocking.......Arriva effectively get a new depot funded.

Pretty sure GNE would want one or two Arriva routes for them getting 19/41/41A

(14 Dec 2022, 7:18 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]NF has quite the reputation when it comes to this sort of thing.

Yeah I know, the GNE farce was just a mess.

(14 Dec 2022, 7:36 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]On a serious note..........
- GNE might want to close another depot?
- ANE could "do" with a North Tyneside / Newcastle based depot but don't have the money to build a new one.
Simple solution would be for both to negotiate and do a "workforce swap". Effectively, ANE's Walkergate staff TUPE to GNE, move to Riverside and GNE run the 1/309/310/311/327 out of there.
In turn, GNE's Percy Main staff TUPE to Arriva and in turn all the ex Jesmond routes as well as the 19/41/41A operate out of Percy Main...........then when the developers knocking houses up around Norham Road area come knocking.......Arriva effectively get a new depot funded.

I don't really expect this to happen but surely it would be easier for GNE to dispose of Percy Main to Arriva with the school work / 327 moving to Riverside with the driver's given an option if they want to move or stay at Percy Main.

There's nothing there worth of note and would solve the Coast Road mess overnight and the 1/41/41A are weak routes regardless hence all subsidised in the evenings and/or Sundays. There should be enough room for the Walkergate stuff to move in.

I can't imagine Percy Main is the most profitable depot (if at all)

(14 Dec 2022, 6:39 pm)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]Its only 25% of jobs will be full lost, 23-25 it says in the article.

Its ONLY 25%, bet you wouldnt be saying that if you were one of those fearing losing your job around Christmas

(14 Dec 2022, 8:11 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Yeah I know, the GNE farce was just a mess.


I don't really expect this to happen but surely it would be easier for GNE to dispose of Percy Main to Arriva with the school work / 327 moving to Riverside with the driver's given an option if they want to move or stay at Percy Main.

There's nothing there worth of note and would solve the Coast Road mess overnight and the 1/41/41A are weak routes regardless hence all subsidised in the evenings and/or Sundays. There should be enough room for the Walkergate stuff to move in.

I can't imagine Percy Main is the most profitable depot (if at all)

Would the CMA approve this though?

(14 Dec 2022, 8:16 pm)V514DFT wrote [ -> ]Its ONLY 25%, bet you wouldnt be saying that if you were one of those fearing losing your job around Christmas

You're right, however what i was trying to say is that, its not as bad as bad as the article said in its title.

(14 Dec 2022, 8:26 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]Would the CMA approve this though?

Don't see why not, there's technically already competition with the Metro really and the Stagecoach 1/22/38/62/63 for parts of the Coast Road depending where you are. The Hexham/Ashington swap was much worse in terms of competition and gave Arriva a monopoly in Ashington and also the Stagecoach Darlington sale to Arriva which again has no competition at all.

(14 Dec 2022, 8:51 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Don't see why not, there's technically already competition with the Metro really and the Stagecoach 1/22/38/62/63 for parts of the Coast Road depending where you are. The Hexham/Ashington swap was much worse in terms of competition and gave Arriva a monopoly in Ashington and also the Stagecoach Darlington sale to Arriva which again has no competition at all.

But would you say Arriva having a monopoly is actually better for the customers, as they'll get a better service overall compared to if there was 4-5 different operators, the only downside is that there could be just arriva hiking prices, Im pretty sure its like £4.50 to go from Sunderland to Durham on the 22, whereas the the 20 is like £2.30, are people willing to pay the £4.50 and GNE are actually pricing too low.

(14 Dec 2022, 9:01 pm)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]But would you say Arriva having a monopoly is actually better for the customers, as they'll get a better service overall compared to if there was 4-5 different operators, the only downside is that there could be just arriva hiking prices, Im pretty sure its like £4.50 to go from Sunderland to Durham on the 22, whereas the the 20 is like £2.30, are people willing to pay the £4.50 and GNE are actually pricing too low.

Not sure where you have got these fares from.

It's £6.70 on the 22 from Durham to Sunderland. 

It's only £2.30 from Sunderland to Durham on the 20 in the evenings, as part of the evening fare cap. Otherwise, it's £4.20.

(14 Dec 2022, 9:07 pm)Thomas12 wrote [ -> ]Not sure where you have got these fares from.

It's £6.70 on the 22 from Durham to Sunderland. 

It's only £2.30 from Sunderland to Durham on the 20 in the evenings, as part of the evening fare cap. Otherwise, it's £4.20.

Sorry, looked at the wrong section.

(14 Dec 2022, 9:01 pm)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]But would you say Arriva having a monopoly is actually better for the customers, as they'll get a better service overall compared to if there was 4-5 different operators, the only downside is that there could be just arriva hiking prices, Im pretty sure its like £4.50 to go from Sunderland to Durham on the 22, whereas the the 20 is like £2.30, are people willing to pay the £4.50 and GNE are actually pricing too low.

I don't think it would change much, the Coast Road fares are capped at £3.10 single, £4.50 return/day max anyway as a Metro day saver using Pop is £4.85 or a single £3.25 and if it's more expensive than that then no-one will use it from Whitley Bay.

The only place which might suffer a bit is Seaton Sluice and parts of Blyth where the fares are too low really but I'd doubt many people will use it throughout as it takes forever. Darlington fares are some of the cheapest around and they have no competition.

£4.50 from Sunderland to Durham via the 22 route isn't really that bad, it's over 20 mile so only 22p a mile or so. Anything under a 60p or so mile is generally alright it's the shorter fares which can be much higher than that.

(14 Dec 2022, 8:51 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Don't see why not, there's technically already competition with the Metro really and the Stagecoach 1/22/38/62/63 for parts of the Coast Road depending where you are. The Hexham/Ashington swap was much worse in terms of competition and gave Arriva a monopoly in Ashington and also the Stagecoach Darlington sale to Arriva which again has no competition at all.

To be fair, if Stagecoach either split the 22 to either serve Hadrian Park or takeover the Howdon > Whitley Bay section of the 1, that should be enough to satisfy the CMA

Welcome to the real world in a sense. Awful for those impacted but you could see this coming a mile off, a top heavy loss making operation.

A failing company cuts the fat, another legacy of Martijn…but hey,…he painted a few buses and got some enthusiasts excited eh?

Sunderland Graphite Job Centre

Don't know i'm reading into this to much but I think they could be looking to close Saltmeadows Road with mentions of some of those redundancies being from Engineering, large majority of accident repairs could be done at major depots such as Riverside/Deptford where workforce could be split. Repaints would then be outsourced as they seem to have been over the past few months with the Ex London B9's and some of the E400's, not much has been painted at Saltmeadows recently going off of posts on here.

Could they benefit from selling off Hexham to Stagecoach with them now wholly operating the 685 from Newcastle to Carlisle from this week and would be benefit the locals having only one operator operating there local services rather than the mix they've had for a number of years.

Savings elsewhere such as promotional stuff should all be done in-house as we know of a staff member who does an excellent job internally rather than paying Mr Stenning's pension, other savings could be made through having Electric Buses used on Sundays operating on services that usually use Diesel Buses when not required on there designated route, this would be restricted to Riverside.

Would it be worth potentially ditching National Express Ops, anyone know how much GNE get for operating these as it would help with Driver Shortages although the designated drivers may not want to operate normal services which could lead to potential issues.

I would imagine Nat Ex Ops, the only part of the business GNE can’t control with branding, ticketing and routes is profitable

Probably a message in there….I’ll leave it others

(15 Dec 2022, 12:14 am)Malarkey wrote [ -> ]Don't know i'm reading into this to much but I think they could be looking to close Saltmeadows Road with mentions of some of those redundancies being from Engineering, large majority of accident repairs could be done at major depots such as Riverside/Deptford where workforce could be split. Repaints would then be outsourced as they seem to have been over the past few months with the Ex London B9's and some of the E400's, not much has been painted at Saltmeadows recently going off of posts on here.

Could they benefit from selling off Hexham to Stagecoach with them now wholly operating the 685 from Newcastle to Carlisle from this week and would be benefit the locals having only one operator operating there local services rather than the mix they've had for a number of years.

Savings elsewhere such as promotional stuff should all be done in-house as we know of a staff member who does an excellent job internally rather than paying Mr Stenning's pension, other savings could be made through having Electric Buses used on Sundays operating on services that usually use Diesel Buses when not required on there designated route, this would be restricted to Riverside.

Would it be worth potentially ditching National Express Ops, anyone know how much GNE get for operating these as it would help with Driver Shortages although the designated drivers may not want to operate normal services which could lead to potential issues.

Really they should expand Deptford & Riverside to be able to do repairs and repaints. Also selling off Hexham I assume they make some money off that as they have recently extended their contract for another year. I agree promotional stuff should be done in house, it can't be that hard to create a livery. You could even do some competition for people with templates or something

(15 Dec 2022, 12:40 am)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]Really they should expand Deptford & Riverside to be able to do repairs and repaints. Also selling off Hexham I assume they make some money off that as they have recently extended their contract for another year. I agree promotional stuff should be done in house, it can't be that hard to create a livery. You could even do some competition for people with templates or something

Paper and crayons more like

There's some tactical irony in the timing of this release as the Engineers start their strike (I know it a statutory notice but still...)

(14 Dec 2022, 7:18 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]I'm seeing a theme here and it's not the Emmerdale opening credits.

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NF has quite the reputation when it comes to this sort of thing.

Which is why he'll hopefully not last long

(15 Dec 2022, 1:11 pm)GNE6312 wrote [ -> ]Which is why he'll hopefully not last long

I think you are in fantasy land if you think he will not be here very long.

(15 Dec 2022, 4:36 pm)citaro5284 wrote [ -> ]I think you are in fantasy land if you think he will not be here very long.

Obviously thoughts go out to those affected putting any politics aside. Not a nice position to be in.

But with the damage GNE has suffered, he unfortunately is going to need to make tough decisions.

As far as the network goes, he did actually streamline SE Northumberland in his Arriva days and stabilised things. Hopefully he'll do the same at GNE.

As far as cost savings go, someone mentioning allocating EV's off route on days / times when the PVR is lower. Things like that can make a difference and Peter Huntley did that at Percy Main taking the Lolynes off the Coaster during evenings and allocating VDL Cadets.

Don't know what the Angel Sunday PVR is......but even using any surplus StreetDecks not in service on routes normally B9TL operated would make a difference. 

Consett.....now I know there was a tender for the Sunday X5, but why such an inefficient interworking pattern and a long layover on the 47 and X45/X72? Surely a Sunday interworking pattern with the 16B/47/X5/X45 all interworking, X72 interworking with the 6/12/X30 and Sunday 78 extended to Castleside would make sense?

(15 Dec 2022, 8:54 pm)L469 YVK wrote [ -> ]Obviously thoughts go out to those affected putting any politics aside. Not a nice position to be in.

But with the damage GNE has suffered, he unfortunately is going to need to make tough decisions.

As far as the network goes, he did actually streamline SE Northumberland in his Arriva days and stabilised things. Hopefully he'll do the same at GNE.

As far as cost savings go, someone mentioning allocating EV's off route on days / times when the PVR is lower. Things like that can make a difference and Peter Huntley did that at Percy Main taking the Lolynes off the Coaster during evenings and allocating VDL Cadets.

Don't know what the Angel Sunday PVR is......but even using any surplus StreetDecks not in service on routes normally B9TL operated would make a difference. 

Consett.....now I know there was a tender for the Sunday X5, but why such an inefficient interworking pattern and a long layover on the 47 and X45/X72? Surely a Sunday interworking pattern with the 16B/47/X5/X45 all interworking, X72 interworking with the 6/12/X30 and Sunday 78 extended to Castleside would make sense?

GNE did do a Sunday Upgrade thing a few years back, the 35A got Prince Bishops, X88 got RedArrow G2's, 14/X22 got Angel StreetDecks.

(15 Dec 2022, 1:11 pm)GNE6312 wrote [ -> ]Which is why he'll hopefully not last long

As citaro has already said, I think he's in for the long haul.
Just need to look at his CV to see that he's not one of these 18month wonders.