I saw this on LNER website (
here) and wondered why/how we haven't had some cheesy slogan from any company or Nexus for any bus corridors.
I am fully aware of the marketing (yet limited) for the Coast Road being the worst and in the most need but they could do the same for multiple corridors;
Great North Road (3 operators) {buses every few mins to Brunton/Melton Park via Great North Rd)
Sunderland - Peterlee (2 operators) {buses every 7 mins to Ryhope and beyond with reinstating X6 half hourly or 62 hourly to plug the one gap for this to work}
I am unsure if the 684/685 have joint ticketing - would be logical though.
Some others which would be helpful
Sunderland - South Shields (2 operators) this would be point to point rather than in between due to routing.
Chester Road (2 operators) unsure of combined freq of operators but would be every few mins
Arnison Centre - Durham (2 operators) unsure of combined freq of operators but would be every few mins
Anyone else have any suggestions?
The primary reason is because operators are mainly competing and not complimenting. They have no interest in telling you about other options which are not theirs. In much the same way Tesco don't tell you it's cheaper to buy something from Asda, for example.
Also, rail is heavily franchised, so there is really no competition there and it's probably within their agreements that they jointly promote things.
Bus is different, less franchising and more commercial. Competition Law plays a hugely significant part of what bus operators are allowed to do, say and share.
(07 Mar 2023, 12:39 am)logidoodah wrote [ -> ]I saw this on LNER website (here) and wondered why/how we haven't had some cheesy slogan from any company or Nexus for any bus corridors.
I am fully aware of the marketing (yet limited) for the Coast Road being the worst and in the most need but they could do the same for multiple corridors;
Great North Road (3 operators) {buses every few mins to Brunton/Melton Park via Great North Rd)
Sunderland - Peterlee (2 operators) {buses every 7 mins to Ryhope and beyond with reinstating X6 half hourly or 62 hourly to plug the one gap for this to work}
I am unsure if the 684/685 have joint ticketing - would be logical though.
Some others which would be helpful
Sunderland - South Shields (2 operators) this would be point to point rather than in between due to routing.
Chester Road (2 operators) unsure of combined freq of operators but would be every few mins
Arnison Centre - Durham (2 operators) unsure of combined freq of operators but would be every few mins
Anyone else have any suggestions?
I guess we had the Superoute fad a while ago - presumably didn't work as it was quietly dropped.
Arnison - Durham is 3 operators - GNE, ANE and, currently, GCT. Annoyingly, GNE's 20 and 21 pretty much follow each other and, on a Sunday, the 50 and 64 leave Durham at pretty much the same time, though the 50 is faster, if you don't mind not bring dropped off in the middle of the Arnison Centre.
In fairness this is more like Go North East and EYMS working together more than anything. All 3 operators are ran by the same concession atm (the government).
It's not possible currently without Nexus or someone else doing it under a QCS Contract otherwise it'll be classed as collusion and breaking competition laws.
What about the A690 from Park Lane/ Fawcett Street to Doxford Park/ Farringdon with the 23/4/3/20
AS well the 33(GNE)/12/13(SCNE)
There's also the 61 and the 22/23, which seem to take the exact same route between Dalton Park and Sunderland Interchange.
As well as the 6 and X21 between Durham and West Auckland (the 7 between Durham and Croxdale could arguably be counted as well)
(17 Mar 2023, 4:52 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]The JTC agenda for next week is online. There's an Enhanced Partnership update and a copy of the fare structure: https://northeastca.gov.uk/wp-content/up...a-Pack.pdf
The fares proposal is also covered in the paper that went to scrutiny yesterday: https://northeastca.gov.uk/wp-content/up...OSC-v2.pdf
So why have they put the Day Rover/Explorer up so much if they're introducing these? Or is this just bus?
Edit: Just realised it specifies multi-modal, but still, why put up the Rover/Explorer? Driving away passengers before reducing fares seems backwards.
(17 Mar 2023, 5:38 pm)deanmachine wrote [ -> ]So why have they put the Day Rover/Explorer up so much if they're introducing these? Or is this just bus?
Edit: Just realised it specifies multi-modal, but still, why put up the Rover/Explorer? Driving away passengers before reducing fares seems backwards.
Because these new fares are funded (subsidised) through the BSIP, whereas Day Rover/Explorer aren’t, they are commercial fares.
(17 Mar 2023, 5:38 pm)deanmachine wrote [ -> ]So why have they put the Day Rover/Explorer up so much if they're introducing these? Or is this just bus?
Edit: Just realised it specifies multi-modal, but still, why put up the Rover/Explorer? Driving away passengers before reducing fares seems backwards.
I'd imagine it's to make people avoid using them, they'll know that these will be in roughly for when the £2 ends so it's to put people off using it so they can earn more money through the government rebates.
Right or wrong that's a debate, also a £6 reduction sounds better than £4 when doing PR.
(17 Mar 2023, 7:54 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]I'd imagine it's to make people avoid using them, they'll know that these will be in roughly for when the £2 ends so it's to put people off using it so they can earn more money through the government rebates.
Right or wrong that's a debate, also a £6 reduction sounds better than £4 when doing PR.
Very cynical when Nexus themselves are part of the Network One programme.
(17 Mar 2023, 4:52 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]The JTC agenda for next week is online. There's an Enhanced Partnership update and a copy of the fare structure: https://northeastca.gov.uk/wp-content/up...a-Pack.pdf
The fares proposal is also covered in the paper that went to scrutiny yesterday: https://northeastca.gov.uk/wp-content/up...OSC-v2.pdf
Absolute joke these fares, £4 for one county, £5 for another then £6 for the other.
There should just be one set multi-modal fare cost across all counties within the region at £5 so everyone is treated equally in my opinion which is a lot more attractive than what has been proposed, they should also scrap Network One as what is being proposed is exactly the same and would also avoid further confusion in what is already very complex ticketing options here in the North East, time to simplify things to make them easier to understand for a customer perspective as that is what will attract them to switch from cars to public transport.
(17 Mar 2023, 10:16 pm)Malarkey wrote [ -> ]Absolute joke these fares, £4 for one county, £5 for another then £6 for the other.
There should just be one set multi-modal fare cost across all counties within the region at £5 so everyone is treated equally in my opinion which is a lot more attractive than what has been proposed, they should also scrap Network One as what is being proposed is exactly the same and would also avoid further confusion in what is already very complex ticketing options here in the North East, time to simplify things to make them easier to understand for a customer perspective as that is what will attract them to switch from cars to public transport.
I can understand Tyne and Wear being more expensive than the other two, but not sure why Northumberland is more expensive than County Durham? Tyne and Wear is multi-modal, so will include at least the Metro, presumably the Ferry and possibly heavy rail between Blaydon and Sunderland.
It's a shame that it looks like they're going to drip-feed ticketing in, rather than having the weekly/monthly/annual tickets available at the same time.
(18 Mar 2023, 3:21 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]I can understand Tyne and Wear being more expensive than the other two, but not sure why Northumberland is more expensive than County Durham? Tyne and Wear is multi-modal, so will include at least the Metro, presumably the Ferry and possibly heavy rail between Blaydon and Sunderland.
It's a shame that it looks like they're going to drip-feed ticketing in, rather than having the weekly/monthly/annual tickets available at the same time.
Blyth and Tyne railway maybe? I know it was meant to be part of the ticketing in the plans and is still mentioned from time to time. Easier to have the price higher upfront than increasing it later and adding it in.
Can see the moaning, 'why am I paying a pound extra now for a railway I don't live by - utter joke' etc.
Mind that said I'd rather they done something like (or similar):
£2.00 Single on any bus, metro or ferry
£5.00 daily cap across one method of travel
£6.50 daily cap across multiple methods of travel
£20 weekly cap across one method of travel
£26 weekly cap across multiple methods of travel
£70 monthly cap across one method of travel
£91 monthly cap across multiple methods of travel
Would make it much easier and for most people would be similar fares anyway than what's being proposed. Zones just aren't needed imo.
(18 Mar 2023, 7:16 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Blyth and Tyne railway maybe? I know it was meant to be part of the ticketing in the plans and is still mentioned from time to time. Easier to have the price higher upfront than increasing it later and adding it in.
Can see the moaning, 'why am I paying a pound extra now for a railway I don't live by - utter joke' etc.
An extra £1 for everyone in Northumberland for the line between Ashington and Seaton Delaval would be shocking mind. It might be to do with Northumberland being a bigger county, Berwick to Blyth to Haltwhistle is quite a distance, I'd imagine that's the excuse used.
(18 Mar 2023, 8:38 pm)deanmachine wrote [ -> ]An extra £1 for everyone in Northumberland for the line between Ashington and Seaton Delaval would be shocking mind. It might be to do with Northumberland being a bigger county, Berwick to Blyth to Haltwhistle is quite a distance, I'd imagine that's the excuse used.
Aye, true mind. Can't see there being many journeys doing it, only really Morpeth to Berwick that's possible since there's no way of getting across to the West without going through Newcastle. Can't imagine there's many people doing Ashington to Berwick every day etc.
Same could be said about Tyne and Wear though, £6 is steep if you live in Washington and only travel to Sunderland and Newcastle via bus. It's cheaper than the GNE alternative I believe. Yet someone can travel from Berwick to Morpeth for £1 less.
It's why they need to change it from zones to type of travel instead imo.
(17 Mar 2023, 10:16 pm)Malarkey wrote [ -> ]Absolute joke these fares, £4 for one county, £5 for another then £6 for the other.
There should just be one set multi-modal fare cost across all counties within the region at £5 so everyone is treated equally in my opinion which is a lot more attractive than what has been proposed, they should also scrap Network One as what is being proposed is exactly the same and would also avoid further confusion in what is already very complex ticketing options here in the North East, time to simplify things to make them easier to understand for a customer perspective as that is what will attract them to switch from cars to public transport.
Durham, Northumberland and Tyne & Wear are separate Local Authorities for transport purposes - the price in Durham and Northumberland was dictated by those councils, whilst in Tyne & Wear they wanted to include Metro - hence different prices in each area.
Whether this will change when there is an elected Mayor post 2024 we will have to wait and see.
(18 Mar 2023, 3:21 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]I can understand Tyne and Wear being more expensive than the other two, but not sure why Northumberland is more expensive than County Durham? Tyne and Wear is multi-modal, so will include at least the Metro, presumably the Ferry and possibly heavy rail between Blaydon and Sunderland.
It's a shame that it looks like they're going to drip-feed ticketing in, rather than having the weekly/monthly/annual tickets available at the same time.
It's not clear if there will be week/month/annual ticket versions of these new tickets.
I think in regards to partnerships the 21/X12/X21 needs looking at with them being tightly timed together between Durham and Newcastle with timings shown below with all services often running together with more often than not the X21 being late due to works on the A1 and then also running together with the 21 Durham/Brandon Boards so I think the timetable for the 21/X12/X21 needs to be streamlined to a Bus operating roughly Every 10-12 Minutes between Durham and Newcastle which would offer a an improvement on the current service.
Current Timings
xx:10 / xx: 40 - 21 Departs Newcastle for Durham/Brandon
xx:13 / xx:43 - X21 Departs Newcastle for Durham
xx:20 - X12 Departs Newcastle to Durham
xx:05 / xx35 - 21 Departs Durham for Newcastle
xx:15 / xx:45 - X21 Departs Durham for Newcastle
xx:20 - X12 departs Durham for Newcastle
Suggested Revised Times
xx:10 / xx:40 - 21 Departs Newcastle for Durham/Brandon (Timings Unchanged)
xx:20 - X12 Departs Newcastle for Durham (Timings Unchanged)
xx:00 / xx:30 - X21 Departs Newcastle for Durham (Revised to operate 13 Minutes Earlier than current timings throughout entire route)
xx:10 / xx:40 - 21 Departs Durham for Newcastle (Revised to operate 5 Minutes Later than current timings throughout entire route)
xx:20 - X12 Departs Durham for Newcastle (Timings Unchanged)
xx:00/ xx:30 - X21 Departs Durham for Newcastle (Revised to operate 15 Minutes Earlier than current timings throughout entire route)
Obviously you'll notice a 20 Minute gap between xx:40 and xx:00 and would suggest increasing the X12 back to operating Every 30 Minutes as numbers from what I have seen in the past few weeks have been strong with buses being almost fully seated, Arriva have been picking up at more stops between Chester-Le-Street and Low Fell than they are meant to if the driver has seen passengers waiting at stops for a 21 from the odd occasions I have gotten the X12 as there seems to be more than enough layover time built into the X12 timetable.
Tried the combined coast road services yesterday for the first time.
When I got there, there were a couple dozen customers waiting between the GNE and Arriva stands. A Go North East bus was already in and boarding, so I opted to wait for the Arriva 308, 5 minutes later.
Only a short journey as I was only going as far as the Corner House. Interestingly, there were 6 of us who got off at stops leading up to where I got off, despite the fact they could have opted for the bus before.
At Haymarket, there is nothing at all advertising this partnership. Nothing mentioned on the timetable, no posters up, nothing. The GNE bus I got back had a small, barely noticeable, A4 notice up. The cove panelling is instead being used to advertise the Little Coaster services that no longer exist. The Arriva bus has no such poster or anything else.
Mobile tickets also don't work on each others ticket machines. The machine honked when I tried to scan my GNE app day rover on the 308. So presumably drivers have to manually check them and therefore understand GNE's products as well as their own.
The partnership is a good thing and a long time coming. I'd love to see the same kind of thing elsewhere, but the application needs to be 100x better than this. It doesn't mean you have to hire in everyone's favourite design agency, but at least do something to promote it along the route.
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