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Go North East: Service Suggestions - Tom - 10 Dec 2012
This will be about your suggestions for services...
A: A bus between Newcastle and Barley Mow, via Gateshead, Q.E Hospital, Wrekenton and Birtley?
B: A bus between North Tyneside and the MetroCentre?
RE: Service Suggestions - Dan - 10 Dec 2012
I'd like to see the "Tyne Tees eXpress" services re-routed to include Sunderland. Though this would increase the journey time by approximately 40 minutes or so, I think this would be better.
These (improved) services could then replace Sunderland's X3 service, allowing the current Citaros and/or Renowns to be used on another service (such as the one you suggested) or to replace smaller vehicles (such as MPDs) on the 39 service.
In addition to it replacing the X3 and ultimately being a lot better (further buses after 6pm or so when the X3s finish), it could provide an additional direct service to Peterlee - the 202 would still operate to cover those stops the X9/X10 don't due to it being a limited stop service.
Those who want to stop before Boldon should use the 26 or 9 services. ;-)
Oh yeah, and this would hopefully provide a more reliable timetable. The X9/X10 services rarely have waiting time at Newcastle as they should. With the additional 10 minutes or so waiting time required at Newcastle for the timings to work as they should, the driver would actually get the waiting time!
RE: Service Suggestions - Michael - 10 Dec 2012
Would be good to see the X9/X10 in to Sunderland but don't think it would happen, if so it probley's be 1 a hour.
Which way would it go its quite a long way from the A19 to Park Lane, including Traffic etc
It would be nice to see a bus to Middlesbough/Darlington from Sunderland like the good old days.
Like to see the X88 run more often, shame not enough people use it.
RE: Service Suggestions - Greg in Weardale - 10 Dec 2012
(10 Dec 2012, 6:10 pm)W179SCU wrote This will be about your suggestions for services...
A: A bus between Newcastle and Barley Mow, via Gateshead, Q.E Hospital, Wrekenton and Birtley?
B: A bus between North Tyneside and the MetroCentre?
Northern to extend the OK18 to Evenwood and Ramshaw to cover the appalling "service" now offered by the ridiculous new timetable on the Arriva 6 and 50/A. The 6 is probably the worst designed timetable I have ever seen, a 12 min frequency with two extending to Cockfield, one having a 3 min lay-over, the other 15 min.
RE: Service Suggestions - ian - 10 Dec 2012
(10 Dec 2012, 8:22 pm)Greg in Weardale wrote(10 Dec 2012, 6:10 pm)W179SCU wrote This will be about your suggestions for services...
A: A bus between Newcastle and Barley Mow, via Gateshead, Q.E Hospital, Wrekenton and Birtley?
B: A bus between North Tyneside and the MetroCentre?
Northern to extend the OK18 to Evenwood and Ramshaw to cover the appalling "service" now offered by the ridiculous new timetable on the Arriva 6 and 50/A. The 6 is probably the worst designed timetable I have ever seen, a 12 min frequency with two extending to Cockfield, one having a 3 min lay-over, the other 15 min.
Nice suggestion greg. Service 6 doesn't run to timetable with buses generally running in pairs or even 3 together. elderly folk from Ramshaw who were used to a bus taking about an hour to durham now have a lengthy journey time taking in most of the wear valley.
RE: Service Suggestions - Dan - 10 Dec 2012
(10 Dec 2012, 7:57 pm)Michael wrote Would be good to see the X9/X10 in to Sunderland but don't think it would happen, if so it probley's be 1 a hour.
Which way would it go its quite a long way from the A19 to Park Lane, including Traffic etc
It would be nice to see a bus to Middlesbough/Darlington from Sunderland like the good old days.
Like to see the X88 run more often, shame not enough people use it.
In an idealistic situation, they would cover the same route as the X3 from Newcastle to Park Lane - it would still serve Gateshead, Heworth and Boldon, but would not serve places like Fulwell etc that the current X3 service does. Should members of the public wish to alight the bus there, they should use an alternative service (ie the 26 or 9, as mentioned above). So, we can conclude as the service is missing out a series of stops, it will take less than 53 minutes to get from Newcastle to Sunderland as the current X3 does, and perhaps, more like 45 minutes.
From Sunderland, the service would not stop until it got to Peterlee. To get to Peterlee, it would follow the same route as the 60/61 etc to Ryhope. From Ryhope, it isn't so difficult to navigate its way back onto the A19. Perhaps this would take approximately 25 minutes from Sunderland to Peterlee? From there, the services could resume their normal regimes... The X9 serves Peterlee, while the X10 doesn't, and the X10 serves Stockton while the X9 does not.
If, for whatever reason, this was ever suggested to GNE and they decided to elaborate on this suggestion... They could work it so the X9 serves Sunderland and misses Peterlee and Stockton while the X10 doesn't serve Sunderland but serves both Peterlee and Stockton?
Meh, I don't know. Always thought it stupid that the X9/X10 don't serve Sunderland though.
RE: Service Suggestions - Michael - 11 Dec 2012
Never know it could happen, would be a good idea to have the X9 serve Sunderland and the X10 both Peterlee and Stockton, Think the branding would have to change.. Tyne ,Wear Tee's Express - lol
I would also have a bus Sunderland - Pennywell - Boldon Via Castletown and Hytlon Castle - Part of the old 537,
RE: Service Suggestions - Michael - 16 Dec 2012
Service Suggestion.
Well its not a suggestion more of a change to current route
Service 73: Go North East/Nexus
The Service currently does Coach Road Estate/Concord – Teal Farm – Sunderland, i think more people would use it if NEXUS, extended this from concord to Washington Galleries also change its route from Park Lane to Castletown by letting go down towards Fawcett Street and then past the Town Bridge and on to its current route to Castletown all its missing out is Green Terrance towards Castletown, it could still go that way on its route back in to Park Lane, would add a extra time on but it might make the usage more.
So my route would be...
Park lane - Fawcett Street - St Mary's way - Queen Alexandra Bridge,Sunderland Enterprise Park east end, Hylton Riverside Retail Park,Sunderland Ent Pk, Defender Ct, Castletown,Sunrise Enterprise Park, Waterview Park,Teal Farm estate,Washington District 15 Exit,Peel Retail Park, Sulgrave,Washington Concord Bus Station,Coach Road Estate - Washington Galleries
The way back would be the same untill it gets to st Marys way and it does its current route to park lane.. Via Green Terrance
What does everyone think?
RE: Service Suggestions - NEB Admin Team - 16 Dec 2012
That sounds like a good idea to me! The extension to Washington Galleries would probably require an additional bus, not sure if Nexus could afford this at the moment, but if there was any way to serve Washington Galleries while keeping the 2 buses then that would be brilliant and should improve passenger numbers! What I'd love to see for the 73 is for it to follow the 26 and 99 routes through Castletown, so it goes around Morrisons and serves the doctors at North Hylton. That would only add 1 minute in each direction and there's plenty of layover at Sunderland to absorb it. Something does need to be done about the 73 though, it seems to carry very few passengers. Go North East once told me that they were trying to see if they could squeeze in the Defender Court diversion into the 99 like the 36A/36C used to, following representations from workers there. If this happened, passenger numbers on the 73 would probably fall even more.
If the QCS goes ahead, I think all services are likely to be subject to major changes. But Greg Stone, whose a member of the ITA, said recently in the skyscrapercity forums that "If anything, the network may even be smaller than it is at present; the proposals Nexus has consulted on constitute significant reductions in service levels in areas including South Shields and parts of Sunderland." This seems rather worrying to me!
RE: Service Suggestions - Michael - 16 Dec 2012
I always thought the 73 went past Morrison's and the dr's, if they did i think numbers would go up, not high but maybe a few more, there are alot of old people who live near there would benifit from a service like the 73
If services drop from NEXUS cuts, GNE,stagecoach,Arriva should try and run the contract services which they will loose but i have a feeling the 73 will be one of them, i dont know which services are secured for stagecoach Sunderland or if certain timings, GNE should run the 39 7 days a week, even if its just hourly.
RE: Service Suggestions - NEB Admin Team - 16 Dec 2012
Yeah the 73 is only running past Morrisons at the moment because of the diversion route which will continue until mid-January I think. It normally runs in front of Storey Carpets instead. It doesn't serve the turning circle at the Broadway either near where the doctors is. There's a route map on the GNE site.
You could be right about the 39. If the ITA opts for the bus partnership scheme, the bus operators have committed themselves to operating more secured services on a commercial basis, so GNE could end up running all 39's.
What I'd love to see for the 135/136 is for it changed into the 99A from Sunderland right round to Seaburn, but instead of turning into Morrisons, have it terminate at South Bents Estate. The PVR would remain the same at 2, but it would provide an evening/Sunday link on the Stagecoach 18/19 route between South Bents, Seaburn, Fulwell, Thompson Road, Southwick, Pallion and Royal Hospital. Nexus have said that they cannot afford an evening/Sunday service on the 18/19, but this would cover a part of the route at no extra cost. Go North East and Stagecoach already run frequent 20 minute services to North Sunderland from the City Centre on Sundays on 3/4/13/16/56, no need for the hourly 135/136 too.
RE: Service Suggestions - Michael - 16 Dec 2012
Ah, i thought the diversion would of being over by now its being weeks, is it because the new houses are getting built, that they on a diversion
Would like to see all companies run their own buses, its stupid how stagecoach ended up running the 39 on a night and other companies running other services
These are GNE services ran by other companies:17/17A,19,26A,37,38,M2A/M3A
Stagecoach 5/5A (Sunderland) are secured services, im sure i read they won a 5 year contract with them, i dont know when this ends but when it does, i bet GNE or Arriva will get it
They should withdraw the 135/136 and replace it with your idea of a 99A, i really don't see y NEXUS are running the 135/136 because no one gets on, NEXUS dont like other peoples idea's... Imagine if NEXUS start running all our buses... it would be a disaster
RE: Service Suggestions - NEB Admin Team - 16 Dec 2012
Yeah I think it's because of the new houses. I got a shock actually when the 99 turned left to go up towards Castle View School instead of straight past Castletown Primary! The new houses are coming up well, I think the road is closed to allow for sewer replacement works. But it takes ages to get down the diversion route because the road is so narrow.
I suggested that idea to Nexus last year, but they are reluctant to break the loop route of 135/136 and run to Seaburn, in case it "damages the income that these services currently generate". I'm pretty sure they'd generate more income operating to Fulwell and Seaburn instead. Everytime I see the 135/136 it either has no passengers or just a small handful. Pitiful waste of resource.
The thing with the NexusBuses just gets more confusing when on some services you can use your Go North East ticket but can't buy one from the driver, or others where you can't use your Go North East ticket at all. I was surprised to hear that the 5/5A is fully secured now. It always seems pretty busy when I've seen it.
RE: Service Suggestions - Michael - 16 Dec 2012
(16 Dec 2012, 5:02 pm)Brandon wrote Yeah I think it's because of the new houses. I got a shock actually when the 99 turned left to go up towards Castle View School instead of straight past Castletown Primary! The new houses are coming up well, I think the road is closed to allow for sewer replacement works. But it takes ages to get down the diversion route because the road is so narrow.
I suggested that idea to Nexus last year, but they are reluctant to break the loop route of 135/136 and run to Seaburn, in case it "damages the income that these services currently generate". I'm pretty sure they'd generate more income operating to Fulwell and Seaburn instead. Everytime I see the 135/136 it either has no passengers or just a small handful. Pitiful waste of resource.
The thing with the NexusBuses just gets more confusing when on some services you can use your Go North East ticket but can't buy one from the driver, or others where you can't use your Go North East ticket at all. I was surprised to hear that the 5/5A is fully secured now. It always seems pretty busy when I've seen it.
The 5/5A is a decent service, ive used it a few times, just hope stagecoach keep hold of it, if not i wont be able to use my megarider on it =(
RE: Service Suggestions - Dan - 16 Dec 2012
(16 Dec 2012, 11:12 am)Michael wrote So my route would be...
Park lane - Fawcett Street - St Mary's way - Queen Alexandra Bridge,Sunderland Enterprise Park east end, Hylton Riverside Retail Park,Sunderland Ent Pk, Defender Ct, Castletown,Sunrise Enterprise Park, Waterview Park,Teal Farm estate,Washington District 15 Exit,Peel Retail Park, Sulgrave,Washington Concord Bus Station,Coach Road Estate - Washington Galleries
That sounds brilliant to me. I don't think I've ever seen anyone board the bus at Vine Place, so re-routing it to Fawcett Street - where buses are used a lot more - would heavily increase the chances of passenger numbers increasing. The only reason I can think for it ever to have been routed the way it is now is because Go North East service 99 follows that same route and it goes via Vine Place. I can also confirm that the 99 rarely gets any passengers boarding there either. Extending the service to Washington Galleries seems perfectly logical too. With services as early as 07:45am from Washington Galleries to Sunderland (besides the 2A/2C), it'd surely have a passenger increase.
(16 Dec 2012, 11:49 am)Brandon wrote That sounds like a good idea to me! The extension to Washington Galleries would probably require an additional bus, not sure if Nexus could afford this at the moment, but if there was any way to serve Washington Galleries while keeping the 2 buses then that would be brilliant and should improve passenger numbers!
Nexus have an endless supply of money - didn't you know? Set-up costs of the Quality Contracts Scheme they're proposing would be around £2.5 million alone. Don't get me started on them blasting £385 million on the "Metro Modernisation" work. Just think of how public transport in Tyne & Wear could have been improved with that kind of money - but no, we get some fancy new technology and some improved lifts on stations, woopity-doo.
(16 Dec 2012, 11:49 am)Brandon wrote If the QCS goes ahead, I think all services are likely to be subject to major changes. But Greg Stone, whose a member of the ITA, said recently in the skyscrapercity forums that "If anything, the network may even be smaller than it is at present; the proposals Nexus has consulted on constitute significant reductions in service levels in areas including South Shields and parts of Sunderland." This seems rather worrying to me!
I dare not even express my views on the Quality Contract Schemes - definitely not appropriate for a public forum. Though I wish operators could have come up with some sort of Voluntary Partnership Agreement (VPA) before now instead of practically being forced to do so by a Quality Contract Scheme threat, I'm glad they've finally brought a VPA up as opposed to a QCS. I can foresee exactly what will happen if the QCS goes ahead, and that will be 'Cut the routes that follow the Metro line, they can use the Metro instead!' - au revoir to the X3, 27 etc and hello to packed Metros that break down more frequently and are even more unreliable than they are at present. Anyway, to see the VPA I spoke of above, see below:
http://www.northeastbus.org/Better_by_Far_summary.pdf
(16 Dec 2012, 3:44 pm)Brandon wrote What I'd love to see for the 135/136 is for it changed into the 99A from Sunderland right round to Seaburn, but instead of turning into Morrisons, have it terminate at South Bents Estate. The PVR would remain the same at 2, but it would provide an evening/Sunday link on the Stagecoach 18/19 route between South Bents, Seaburn, Fulwell, Thompson Road, Southwick, Pallion and Royal Hospital. Nexus have said that they cannot afford an evening/Sunday service on the 18/19, but this would cover a part of the route at no extra cost. Go North East and Stagecoach already run frequent 20 minute services to North Sunderland from the City Centre on Sundays on 3/4/13/16/56, no need for the hourly 135/136 too.
Again, another great idea. It's a shame that Nexus don't listen to folk who have ideas that would benefit the full county. It wouldn't ever 'change' into the 99A, it would have to be the same service and be extended to South Bents Estate. A substantial part of that route would be covered at no extra cost as you say; those wishing to go to Hendon , Hill View or Grangetown could use the 10/11 from the City Centre, those wishing to go to Grindon could use the 16 from the City Centre, those wishing to go to Plains Farm could use the 3 from the City Centre... It seems like common logic to do something like this, don't you think?
On the subject of the 135/136, albeit off-topic to this thread, a "Sunderland Connect" Solo SR Hybrid was working one of them today. Came into Park Lane with one passenger - that was around 12 if I remember rightly.
(16 Dec 2012, 4:39 pm)Michael wrote Would like to see all companies run their own buses, its stupid how stagecoach ended up running the 39 on a night and other companies running other services
These are GNE services ran by other companies:17/17A,19,26A,37,38,M2A/M3A
I'd like this too. It'd avoid a lot of confusion regarding which operator's tickets you can and can not use. That doesn't directly affect me as I can use any bus with a Nexus CAT ticket - but it'd be beneficial to those who are over 16 that don't have that kind of ticket!
(16 Dec 2012, 4:39 pm)Michael wrote Stagecoach 5/5A (Sunderland) are secured services, im sure i read they won a 5 year contract with them, i dont know when this ends but when it does, i bet GNE or Arriva will get it
I didn't know they were secured services! If it's a five-year contract, I could imagine that it'd finish by September 2013. When it ends, I could imagine Stagecoach will keep it. It's a heavily demanded service by elderly folk of the East End, and it'd be cost-effective which perhaps in the past, it might not have been. It isn't Go North East's or Arriva's type of service in my opinion, they prefer long-haul type of stuff.
(16 Dec 2012, 4:39 pm)Michael wrote Imagine if NEXUS start running all our buses... it would be a disaster
+1. Horrible thought.
Jeez, that was a long post.
RE: Service Suggestions - ... - 16 Dec 2012
As far as i was aware the 5/5A is only a nexus route between The East End and the City Centre, and as a result thats why the Enviro 200s have been running on there for several months now.
RE: Service Suggestions - Dan - 16 Dec 2012
(16 Dec 2012, 9:39 pm)dans_bus_photos wrote As far as i was aware the 5/5A is only a nexus route between The East End and the City Centre, and as a result thats why the Enviro 200s have been running on there for several months now.
The Enviro 200s have been running on the service since late 2010...
RE: Service Suggestions - Michael - 17 Dec 2012
(16 Dec 2012, 9:39 pm)dans_bus_photos wrote As far as i was aware the 5/5A is only a nexus route between The East End and the City Centre, and as a result thats why the Enviro 200s have been running on there for several months now.
Ah right cheers Dan, i thought it was the full route but Enviro's have being running over a year on 5/5A, only with that happening i thought it might have being the full route since that and 39 is the only perm Enviro routes
RE: Service Suggestions - CumbrianJosh - 19 Dec 2012
After a conversation with Daniel earlier, how about a service from Sunderland to Middlesbrough(Don't think such a direct service is available at present) which runs limited stop via Peterlee and Hartlepool so that anyone in sunderland to wishes to travel to those places can much quicker! and then onto Boro.
RE: Service Suggestions - cbma06 - 24 Dec 2012
Already mentioned to GNE lately and years ago about doing a service from Sunderland to Hartlepool, more directly:
Terminate the X35 at Peterlee bus station and have a East Durham branded service 230 running between Sunderland-Ryhope-Dalton Park-Easington-Peterlee bus station-Blackhall-Hartlepool. Passengers south of Peterlee shouldnt be paying GNE tickets to Sunderland when the passengers having to go via Hetton,Houghton and get stuck in traffic either Durham Road or Doxford Park.
Already mentioned about running the X9 from Peterlee bus station down to Hartlepool then out the other side to Billingham to Middlesbrough.
When GNE ran the X11, i mentioned to them to run the service at peak times via Doxford Park and Dalton Park, since then Arriva has introduced the X19 from Newcastle and Doxford Park (work bus).
Maybe if a few people suggests the Sunderland to Hartlepool direct and have the X35 terminate at Peterlee as having the 230 and X35 go down to Hartlepool will be a waste of money and resources.
What services would you like introduced or changed if you had the chance, but the service has to make a profit.
RE: Service Suggestions - Dan - 25 Dec 2012
In regards to the 230:
I think Go North East introducing a 230 service would be a little irrational. Given that PYGALL'S COACHES now operate the service - perhaps not to a great frequency, but for its usage, its good nonetheless - it would be totally unfair for Go North East to storm in and take the service right back.
Josh told me about Reays copying routes but running them 7 or so minutes earlier than the original. I believe he said something about the route number being similar, but not the same.
Go North East running a mixture of the 202 and 230 service under the number of '230' just takes the mick a little, in my opinion. No doubt GNE will be able to maintain decent passenger numbers, and they wouldn't struggle at all, unlike PYGALL'S. Granted it was 'years ago' when you suggested that, so I shouldn't ramble on a great deal about services now.
In regards to the X9:
Current suggestions have been to run it from Sunderland - to provide those who live in that area with a link to either Middlesbrough (both Josh and I suggested this) or Newcastle (which I also suggested). If the withdrawal of the X3 does go through, I could only imagine that this would be an even better idea. Running it from Peterlee, I can't agree with. One already serves Peterlee, neither serve Sunderland at present. Perhaps would be nice to see it link up to Hartlepool too, but if it ever managed to go from Sunderland, it couldn't happen. That would drastically increase the PVR of the route, and Go North East just don't have the sufficient amount of vehicles to do so. Not only that, but people's journey time would be dramatically increased too. Those wanting to travel from Newcastle to Boro would perhaps have to get the one beforehand to get there at the same time as they do now (or perhaps even the one before that)!
RE: Service Suggestions - Kuyoyo - 25 Dec 2012
(25 Dec 2012, 11:08 am)Daniel wrote In regards to the X9:
Current suggestions have been to run it from Sunderland - to provide those who live in that area with a link to either Middlesbrough (both Josh and I suggested this) or Newcastle (which I also suggested). If the withdrawal of the X3 does go through, I could only imagine that this would be an even better idea. Running it from Peterlee, I can't agree with. One already serves Peterlee, neither serve Sunderland at present. Perhaps would be nice to see it link up to Hartlepool too, but if it ever managed to go from Sunderland, it couldn't happen. That would drastically increase the PVR of the route, and Go North East just don't have the sufficient amount of vehicles to do so. Not only that, but people's journey time would be dramatically increased too. Those wanting to travel from Newcastle to Boro would perhaps have to get the one beforehand to get there at the same time as they do now (or perhaps even the one before that)!
As would routing the X9/X10 to serve Sunderland, which will NEVER happen for 3 very good reasons:
1) The main selling point about the service is that it is more direct, stops closer to the shops in Newcastle and runs more frequencly that the train between Newcastle and Middlesbrough. It's also cheaper than driving a car up there.
2) The increase in the number of vehicles needed, plus your 'assumed' running time, would make the route unprofitable. Also, your estimated running time 'in both directions' would take the route behond both the European Driving hours limit (4hr 30 mins) and the domestic driving hours limit (5hr 30 mins) before the driver must have his/her break. As the X9/X10 is operated by buses fitted with Tachographs, it's covered by the European drivers hours, so as such the drivers can just 9 hours a day, which means they could in theory do 3 round trips on either the X9 or X10 during the day now.
3) The volume of passengers travelling between Teesside and Sunderland would not jusitfy the re-routing. Plus, diverting it would drive people away as they wouldn't want to be sat on a bus for anymore than 2 hours (hence why Arriva's X93 is busy in the summer compared to the 5, the X93 does Middlesbrough-Whitby in just over an hour, the 5 takes 2 hours).
Add to the fact, the X10 has never served Sunderland. Even in the days on joint operation with United on both Newcastle-Middlesbrough routes (Northern also operated certain journeys on the X1), it has never served the city. Also, when the suggestion has been mentioned previously to Go North East on Facebook, they have turned it down for the reasons mentioned above plus the lose of the 10 minutes (20 on certain afternoon trips) 'turn around' at both end of the route.
So, in short, it's a pipe dream that will stay as such.
RE: Service Suggestions - Michael - 25 Dec 2012
We all know that it wont happen but it was a suggestion, hence y its under the thread Service Suggestions.
Would be nice to see a new service going from Sunderland to Middlesbrough
RE: Service Suggestions - Dan - 25 Dec 2012
(25 Dec 2012, 2:01 pm)Kuyoyo wrote So, in short, it's a pipe dream that will stay as such.
Now, now, we're all entitled to agree and disagree with one another on these forums, but that manner is appalling. We're all here for the same reason - because we're enthusiasts of buses. It's nice that we can discuss and debate certain aspects of the bus industry in the North East and our discussions can be quite constructive at times in regards to disagreement, but I really do object to that response - it's hardly constructive, it's plainly rude. I vaguely remember you having a similar attitude towards me on Flickr one time. On a serious note (pointing this question towards administrators of the site), are there any rules in place about treating each other with a little bit of respect? I think, if there isn't, now would be a good time to start piecing together some rules to avoid this kind of manner being demonstrated in the future.
To retain the standard of this thread prior to that response, I shall comment back on what you've said:
1) I agree, I would say that the main selling point of the X9/X10 services is that it's direct. What you don't seem to understand is that those who live in Sunderland do not have a 'direct' service to Middlesbrough - they have to make their way to Newcastle or Peterlee (albeit only being one bus journey away) and then get the bus from there. As I said before, if the withdrawal of the X3 service does go ahead, then those who live in Sunderland will essentially not have a 'direct' service to Newcastle either! They will either be forced to get the Metro - which, perhaps people can't travel on due to the ticket they've purchased or pass they hold (i.e. concessionary pass without the £25 Metro add-on) - or use the 56, which, as we all know, is a hell of a lot longer than the X3.
2) You can't forecast now whether a service would be profitable or not. Nobody can estimate how profitable the service would be because the services have never included Sunderland in the past. For all we know, those who board the bus at Newcastle could mainly be from Sunderland. A survey, at the very least, should be conducted before making such a statement. My assumed running time - which admittedly, perhaps isn't accurate to the very minute - is below the European Driving Limit. At present, a round trip (assuming that the service did not have a small break at either end) is approximately 2hrs 40mins. With the additional 80 minutes added to the journey, that would be 4hrs dead, giving a 30 minute leeway on my assumed running time... That's more than enough leeway.
3) We live in a country which we can't be particularly picky. In short, if the bus service is cheaper than a train, I think given the current recession in our country, folk will still choose the bus service.
A little contradictory for you to say the X10 has never served Sunderland. You're saying how unprofitable the service would be if it did serve Sunderland; as I said above, you can't predict something if it hasn't happened in the past and you have not conducted a survey in Sunderland to find out if people would use the service or not. I don't recall ever seeing the suggestion being passed onto Go North East on Facebook before, and that comes from someone who is on there daily, helping out when Go North East are either offline or unresponsive for a given amount of time. Go North East frequently receive service suggestions on their Facebook page, and they are always told to do the same thing: e-mail them. Those who operate and manage the Facebook page don't have the ability to straight up say yes or no like that - it isn't in their job description. They're there to pass on information regarding service disruptions, to answer queries regarding timings and to answer queries regarding prices. I have previously asked them about a specific service - a recent example would be the QEH shuttle service - and they have apologised and said that they can't help because they don't have the knowledge. They're not there for enthusiast questions, they're there for public queries where an answer can be easily obtained via their website, Traveline or a timetable.
I think we should slowly drift away from mine and Josh's suggestions now and move onto other people's suggestions. If it is causing controversy like this, it's best to stay away from those services. As Michael said, suggestions listed here are what we'd LIKE to see, not those that we are proposing will happen any time soon.
RE: Service Suggestions - Michael - 25 Dec 2012
Would anyone agree with me that merging the 36 and 42 would make a better service, i know the 42 isnt the most reliably service but i think because its a Loop Service.
This would be my service: 42 - Town End Farm - Downhill - Hylton Red House - Marley Pots - Southwick - Sunderland City Centre - Grangetown - Hollycarrside- Ryhope - Tunstall Village - Silksworth - Every 10 mins
Evening - Normal Evening service but continues on Full route.
Sunday - Extend from City Centre every 30 mins to Town end farm as 42A (Current 42 runs every 15 mins)
Nexus can still run the 135/136.
Add the 2 current times for Journeys on the 36 and 42 = 46 mins (only 1 way) - 46+46 = 92 * 10 = 9.2 = So it would require 10 Buses and still leave 1 spare.
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My route for the 73 - Park lane - Fawcett Street - St Mary's way - Queen Alexandra Bridge,Sunderland Enterprise Park east end, Hylton Riverside Retail Park,Sunderland Ent Pk, Defender Ct, Castletown,Sunrise Enterprise Park, Waterview Park,Teal Farm estate,Washington District 15 Exit,Peel Retail Park, Sulgrave,Washington Concord Bus Station,Coach Road Estate - Washington Galleries
I know i posted it earlier in the thread but im bringing all my idea's as 1 post.
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202 I would withdraw it over loops with other services
Peterlee - X35
Dalton Park - 61
New Seaham - 60/61
Sunderland to Murton - Dalton Park - New Seaham - Seaham - Ryhope - Grangetown - Sunderland - All covered by 39,42,60,61
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Merge most of the East Durham Buses, Which can be done.
There's my idea's what does everyone think?
RE: Service Suggestions - NEB Admin Team - 25 Dec 2012
We're all bus enthusiasts. We may not be great in number in society, and I think that's all the more reason for us not to argue and for us to be civil with one another instead where possible. I'm certainly not the most extroverted of people, but things like arguing about something that we're all trying to enjoy just saddens me really.
I had been a fairly active member on another bus forum a good few months ago, but the petty squabbling and the fear of being persecuted in case I said anything that didn't agree with the views of others wasn't much fun. I don't want this forum to end up in the same way and I don't want any members to feel that they can't mention something on here in case they get shot down in flames. I want this to be safe place.
The creator of this site, Liam, invited me to join this forum back in June I think it was. I was more than happy to give it a go. Six months down the line, I think we have a really great friendly community here and I think I can speak of behalf on all members on here that this is something we'd like to preserve.
Regarding the Sunderland-Middlesbrough service, I think this would be a great addition to the network if it ever came about. I think the problem in the past is that the service by Arriva (21A/31A) had been too long and wasn't really competitive with the journey times offered by the Northern Rail service (1 hour). The success of the existing X9/X10 could be due in part to it's similar journey times as the train, which is 1 hour 20 minutes.
I think it would be such a shame if the direct Sunderland-Newcastle service was cut. This would leave many people out on a limb if they couldn't afford the £25 Metro Gold Card and can't face the long journey on the 56. As small amount £25 may seem to some people, a lot of folk may struggle with the upfront cost of this. My grand-parents for one are regular users of the X3 from Sunderland to Newcastle. They don't feel safe on the Metro and the X3 takes them all the way to Eldon Square which they love. Going back to cbm06's suggestion about a fast Sunderland-Peterlee service via New Seaham, if this was incorporated into an extended X3 south from Sunderland, you'd be attracting potential passengers from the likes of Easington too. Go North East operate fairly intensive network of local buses around the Peterlee area in the East Durham brand. It would be great to see a faster alternative than the X35 for onwards travel to Sunderland.
That's a great idea Michael about the 36 and 42! I think Go North East could really capitalise on expanding their range of cross-city routes, especially with the opening of the mega-size Tesco at the Wheatsheaf this spring.
I would also like to see the cessation of the Pronto brand. I think re-numbering the X21 into OK21 with OK Expressway branding would be way smarter on the Plaxton President bodied Volvo B7's than the Pronto branding. I would also like to see improved connections at Bishop Auckland between X21 and OK1 too if it were possible. The OK1 seems to be getting nothing but praise since it's been extended to Middlesbrough. I would love to see the brand continue to expand.
RE: Service Suggestions - Dan - 25 Dec 2012
I agree, the 36/42 being merged would be a brilliant idea. I've briefly thought of suggestions similar to those that have been suggested already, but I hadn't ever come close to this one!
A merge of those two "SimpliCity" services would be great. I know the 42 is regularly used, but I haven't seen the 36 being used to a great extent in recent weeks when I've been out photographing buses in the Town End Farm area... Perhaps if these were merged, those two different kinds of passenger numbers would cancel each other out and the final service would stand more of a chance of running on-time?
RE: Service Suggestions - cbma06 - 25 Dec 2012
About the 36/42 merge, good idea but it wont happen, when the 139/140 merged with the 135/136 to make 29/29A/39/39A series going across the city, there were delays in the service by hold ups from the north of Sunderland and South of Sunderland. same goes as the 26/26A/36/36A Pennywell to Heworth and the service had to be split as hold ups on Chester Road and Heworth area.
I used to be in regular contact with the late Peter Huntley (MD of GNE) through email and i use to bounce suggestions to him and he used to tell me what was going to happen with the bus services for that area.
One of the service changes that was going to happen was merge the 39 with the 42 but only if the Sunderland Council would put in a bus link in at Silksworth terminus to Doxford Park Mill Hill, But the Council decide against doing the bus link so the merge didnt happen.
Secondly he mentioned to me just before he left the MD post at GNE that he was planning to run an express service between Sunderland and Peterlee, but this never got off the ground as the next MD came in and shelved it. And l thought that there were going to extend the X3 from Sunderland to Peterlee.
About the X9/X10 services, GNE wont do anything to these services as its already on tight times and the A19 history of holds ups,closed in sections and alot of accidents.
When GNE took over bus services of Jayline, GNE did extend the 211 from Peterlee to Sunderland, so the route was from Middlesbrough to Sunderland, but didnt really pick up passengers as it was mostly on the A19 after Ryhope.
When Durham County Council did there cutting back on spending on local bus services, GNE was going to lose all the East Durham services that there do secured by DCC to independant operators (Scarlet Band) and to Arriva, So GNE has taken on all the East Durham Branded services commercially so there dont lose them, But DCC told GNE that there have to maintain the destinations and early morning times of the timetables. In the past Arriva has asked GNE that there are wanting to take the contract off them to run it themselves, but ive always said that if Arriva did the services in the first place but decide not to run them and tried to run them with taxpayers money, When Arriva closed down the depot at Peterlee, l was hoping that there would take there bus services with them as passengers in peterlee were fedup with non running bus services and there wanting GNE buses in the estates, i asked the late Peter Huntley about taking on the depot and run the bus services in East Durham area, the reply l got back was that there were not interested in purchasing the Arriva Peterlee depot and there were going to wait and see what the downfall will be like with Arriva bus services, i mentioned to Peter Huntley that if GNE take on the depot instead of using a DCC East Durham Community yard, then GNE could run there East Durham Branded bus services and also could run the X9/X10 fleet and the Drifters 60/61 from there which will free up space at Gateshead and Deptford, But GNE decided not to and mentioned that the maintenace for the East Durham branded services woud be held at Deptford.
When the late Peter Huntley took the MD job at GNE he would of purchased Stagecoach Darlington but was too late as Stagecoach and Arriva shook hands on the deal, he also enquired about the availability of Stagcoach South Shields and Stagecoach Hartlepool, Stagecoach was in the 50/50 mind about South shields but then decided not to. and he was turned down flat about Stagecoach Hartlepool at least 2 times. You would of thought that Stagecoach Hartlepool would have annual turnover less than Stagecoach Darlington. Im surprised that Stagecoach hasnt started to run a service between Sunderland and Hartlepool, Stagecoach Hartlepool must be making profit as other bus operators only do services from outer area direct to Hartlepool centre.
RE: Service Suggestions - dan - 26 Dec 2012
the 88 goes under a low bridge and inter works with 88A which goes under no low bridges and my idea is 88A runs sunday so could have double deckers but on monday-saturday would need to be non-inter working with 88
RE: Service Suggestions - Malarkey - 21 Feb 2013
I would like to see GNE split the M1 so its does it normal route Heworth to Houghton every 20 minutes.
Then have an M1A which would do Heworth - Concord - Washington Galleries - Lambton - Ayton - Harraton then back to normal route at Fatfield to Houghton.
This would result in quicker link to Heworth from those areas on the diverted service. As the M2/M3 both take 40 minutes to Heworth from Lambton although you can quite easily change at The Galleries, but the service would also provide a direct link from Lambton to Houghton which in turn could be very useful.
Also wouldn't mind GNE reinstating the old 638 between Washington and Winlaton via The MetroCentre perhaps under the Pulse Brand and Route Number.