(03 Aug 2017, 2:40 am)Kuyoyo wrote BIB: the evening runs on 36/37/38 don't interwork with each other in Middlesbrough on an evening - the 36 and 37 are stand alone using 4 and 1 respectively while the 38 interworks with the 12.

Aye, I meant the interworking pattern would have to change to accommodate hypothetically adding the 6 into the mix.

Though, it could be possible to have a 36/6 pattern using just 5 buses. By eliminating the Park Road/Stockton Street loop and having town-bound 6s terminate via Raby Road (alike Arriva's 23) for the 36 to commence opposite Grand Hotel - a few minutes can be shaved from the current timetables. A return M'Boro-H'pool-Clavering-H'pool-M'Boro could be completed in 145 mins, i.e PVR 5.

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(03 Aug 2017, 3:16 pm)Cock Robin wrote They could easily change it.

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That's ridiculous!

That's Stagecoach! Reminds me of when the twilight 7s were split at York Road by operator - Stagecoach took you from Middlegate to Town, Arriva took over for the Town - Manor section. Were tickets inter-available? Of course not.

(01 Aug 2017, 3:27 pm)Kuyoyo wrote New Teesside Timetables now online

https://www.stagecoachbus.com/service-up...:54:20:373

Confirms that Teesside's PVR change is -1 - the 12 appears to be a 7 vehicle working judging by the timetable.

EDIT: Also seems the 35 will still interwork with the 52, with certain 52s getting a 10 minute layover in Stockton.

EDIT2: And Hartlepool's can be found here: https://www.stagecoachbus.com/service-up...:44:53:845

Having looked through the timetables myself I get that the PVR will remain the same...the 10/11 loses 1 bus as does the 12 while the 14/34 gain a bus (though no longer interwork) as do the 35/52/58 (though again no longer interworking) - and if the 35 and 52 are standalone then another bus would be required taking it up to an overall +1. 

Service 52 Departs Stockton
09:08
Service 52 Arrives Stockton
10:28 
Service 35 Departs Stockton 
10:31
Service 35 Arrives Stockton 
11:36
Service 52 Departs Stockton
11:38 

Therefore 09:08 09:38 10:08 10:38 11:08 - 5 buses

Service 52 Departs Stockton 
09:23
Service 52 Arrives Stockton 
10:43
Service 52 Departs Stockton 
10:53

Therefore 09:23 09:53 10:23 - 3 buses 

8 buses required, +4 from service 58 is 12 - current 35/52/58 is 11 (according to one of your previous posts) 

Or Standalone

Service 52 Departs Stockton 
09:08
Service 52 Arrives Stockton 
10:28
Service 52 Departs Stockton
10:38

Therefore 09:08 09:23 09:38 09:53 10:08 10:23 - 6 buses

Service 35 Departs Stockton 
09:01
Service 35 Arrives Stockton 
10:06
Service 35 Departs Stockton 
10:31

Therefore 09:01 09:31 10:01 - 3 buses

9 buses required, +4 from service 58 is 13

(10 Aug 2017, 7:30 pm)peter wrote Having looked through the timetables myself I get that the PVR will remain the same...the 10/11 loses 1 bus as does the 12 while the 14/34 gain a bus (though no longer interwork) as do the 35/52/58 (though again no longer interworking) - and if the 35 and 52 are standalone then another bus would be required taking it up to an overall +1. 

Service 52 Departs Stockton
09:08
Service 52 Arrives Stockton
10:28 
Service 35 Departs Stockton 
10:31
Service 35 Arrives Stockton 
11:36
Service 52 Departs Stockton
11:38 

Therefore 09:08 09:38 10:08 10:38 11:08 - 5 buses

Service 52 Departs Stockton 
09:23
Service 52 Arrives Stockton 
10:43
Service 52 Departs Stockton 
10:53

Therefore 09:23 09:53 10:23 - 3 buses 

8 buses required, +4 from service 58 is 12 - current 35/52/58 is 11 (according to one of your previous posts) 

Or Standalone

Service 52 Departs Stockton 
09:08
Service 52 Arrives Stockton 
10:28
Service 52 Departs Stockton
10:38

Therefore 09:08 09:23 09:38 09:53 10:08 10:23 - 6 buses

Service 35 Departs Stockton 
09:01
Service 35 Arrives Stockton 
10:06
Service 35 Departs Stockton 
10:31

Therefore 09:01 09:31 10:01 - 3 buses

9 buses required, +4 from service 58 is 13

I honestly can't see the 35 and 52 being standalone on the timetables provided - if the 35 was to be standalone, there's a serious amount of wasted resources with the 35s having 25 minute layovers in Stockton on every trip and the 52s having 10 minute layovers after every trip. So, I can take it as read that the 52/35 will remain as an interworking pattern.

It is interesting to note then, that Stockton retains its PVR yet every other depot has seen reductions.

(10 Aug 2017, 7:43 pm)Kuyoyo wrote I honestly can't see the 35 and 52 being standalone on the timetables provided - if the 35 was to be standalone, there's a serious amount of wasted resources with the 35s having 25 minute layovers in Stockton on every trip and the 52s having 10 minute layovers after every trip. So, I can take it as read that the 52/35 will remain as an interworking pattern.

It is interesting to note then, that Stockton retains its PVR yet every other depot has seen reductions.

I agree, it does seem unrealistic for them to be standalone with such large layovers - especially when the recent trend at other depots has been a PVR decrease it would seem bizarre for a PVR increase simply to allow buses to sit around for up to 25 minutes at a time. Quite surprised that these changes haven't seen any PVR reductions given the number of services seeing frequency reductions and, as you say, the reduction at every other depot. Perhaps these changes may be testing the water with further cuts still to come!

(02 Aug 2017, 10:55 pm)James101 wrote Hartlepool's upcoming evening 7s are on an odd timetable!

Southbound, buses run Middlegate to Owton Manor, as per daytime - simple. 

Northbound, buses terminate in the town centre (York Road), then continue to Clavering as service 6. Upon returning as a 6, buses terminate at Grand Hotel where they then pick up the other half of the 7 they earlier abandoned. 

The outcome is passengers on the 7 which intend to travel north across the town will be booted off at York Road and will have 9 minutes to complete a quarter-mile walk to pick up the second half of the 7.  

Confusion also arrises as the drop-off stands for the 6 are completely separate from the pick-up stands. I can't see this helping sustainability of these evening services. 

I can't help a better way of working would have been the have the 7 stand alone and add the 6 onto the end of the 36. This way everything could match their daytime routes and daytime stops, other than the 36 dropping off at York Rd rather than Park Rd. PVR could be the same too, as the extra 37 mins added the the 36 by returning to Clavering could be covered by 1 extra bus, if the 36/37/38 were to all interwork at Middlesbrough.

That would be a pig for elderly people and those with disabilities. 1/4 mile isn't far for most of us, but my mother in law can't walk that far without getting seriously out of breath (hole in her heart) (My sister in law is another matter - she chooses never to walk as far as 1/4 mile, but she's also convinced that she'd get beaten up if she caught a bus!)

(10 Aug 2017, 9:00 pm)BusLoverMum wrote That would be a pig for elderly people and those with disabilities. 1/4 mile isn't far for most of us, but my mother in law can't walk that far without getting seriously out of breath (hole in her heart) (My sister in law is another matter - she chooses never to walk as far as 1/4 mile, but she's also convinced that she'd get beaten up if she caught a bus!)

I see the Fri & Sat night service is seeing a cut from 5 buses to 3. What's the betting when the quiet nights service doesn't take off they axe it again and leave the reduced service on a Fri & Sat.

Newcastle changes

In short, PVR on 6, 7, 8 increased by 1, 12 cut by 1. Unlike suggested a couple of weeks ago on this thread, the Sunday expresses do not see timetable decreases.

As posted on Facebook by a Coulby Newham Councillor:

From 13th November, the 10 will be revised to operate via Linthorpe Village instead of Longlands to reinstate the link to the One Life Centre for the residents along the former 11 route in Coulby Newham.

They are further looking to reinstate a version of the 11 in the New Year and also reinstate a link to Stainton in what is likely to be a revamped version of the 13.

PB0001987/1 Registered
CLEVELAND TRANSIT LTD
Route: Middlesbrough Bus Station to Lingfield Park
Service number: 11 (10)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 19 Nov 2017

PB0001987/239 Registered
CLEVELAND TRANSIT LTD
Route: Hemlington or Stainton to Salters Lane
Service number: 1313A (13, 13A)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 19 Nov 2017

Just a guess but would appear they're going to re-route one 13 an hour to Stainton as a 13A, no longer serving Hemlington. I guess that's the best they can do without adding extra resource into it

PB0002404/89 Registered
BUSWAYS TRAVEL SERVICES LTD
Route: Newcastle, Pilgrim Street to Horsley Hill
Service number: X34 (X34)
Service type: Limited Stop
Effective date: 19 Nov 2017

PB0002404/311 Registered
BUSWAYS TRAVEL SERVICES LTD
Route: Sunderland to Newcastle
Service number: X24 (X24, X24A)
Service type: Limited Stop
Effective date: 19 Nov 2017

PB0002404/48 Registered
BUSWAYS TRAVEL SERVICES LTD
Route: Dene Estate to Thorney Close
Service number: 23 (23)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 19 Nov 2017

PB0002404/17 Registered
BUSWAYS TRAVEL SERVICES LTD
Route: Red House Estate to Hastings Hill
Service number: 16 (16)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 19 Nov 2017

PB0002404/60 Registered
BUSWAYS TRAVEL SERVICES LTD
Route: Downhill to Doxford Park
Service number: 4su (4)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 19 Nov 2017

PB0002404/77 Registered
BUSWAYS TRAVEL SERVICES LTD
Route: Sunderland John Street to Doxford International
Service number: X1 (X1)
Service type: Limited Stop
Effective date: 19 Nov 2017

(26 Sep 2017, 10:26 am)markydh wrote PB0002404/89 Registered
BUSWAYS TRAVEL SERVICES LTD
Route: Newcastle, Pilgrim Street to Horsley Hill
Service number: X34 (X34)
Service type: Limited Stop
Effective date: 19 Nov 2017

PB0002404/311 Registered
BUSWAYS TRAVEL SERVICES LTD
Route: Sunderland to Newcastle
Service number: X24 (X24, X24A)
Service type: Limited Stop
Effective date: 19 Nov 2017

PB0002404/48 Registered
BUSWAYS TRAVEL SERVICES LTD
Route: Dene Estate to Thorney Close
Service number: 23 (23)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 19 Nov 2017

PB0002404/17 Registered
BUSWAYS TRAVEL SERVICES LTD
Route: Red House Estate to Hastings Hill
Service number: 16 (16)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 19 Nov 2017

PB0002404/60 Registered
BUSWAYS TRAVEL SERVICES LTD
Route: Downhill to Doxford Park
Service number: 4su (4)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 19 Nov 2017

PB0002404/77 Registered
BUSWAYS TRAVEL SERVICES LTD
Route: Sunderland John Street to Doxford International
Service number: X1 (X1)
Service type: Limited Stop
Effective date: 19 Nov 2017

Is this a new route?

(26 Sep 2017, 9:26 am)tyresmoke wrote PB0001987/1 Registered
CLEVELAND TRANSIT LTD
Route: Middlesbrough Bus Station to Lingfield Park
Service number: 11 (10)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 19 Nov 2017

PB0001987/239 Registered
CLEVELAND TRANSIT LTD
Route: Hemlington or Stainton to Salters Lane
Service number: 1313A (13, 13A)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 19 Nov 2017

Just a guess but would appear they're going to re-route one 13 an hour to Stainton as a 13A, no longer serving Hemlington. I guess that's the best they can do without adding extra resource into it

Indeed - hourly 13 to Hemlington and hourly 13a to Stainton.
The 10 meanwhile is re-routed via Keith Road and Linthorpe Road.

For the Busway change:
X34 is a revised route with the Horsely Hill loop reversed. Also the introduction of the Sunday journeys in the run-up to Christmas.
X24: Sunday journeys introduced as well as journeys to Doxford Park (from where not mentioned) which will operate as X24A.
16: Amended timetable and route in the Red House area
4: Minors changes to Weekday timetable
X1: amended timetable to better reflect shift patterns

(26 Sep 2017, 10:51 am)Kuyoyo wrote Indeed - hourly 13 to Hemlington and hourly 13a to Stainton.
The 10 meanwhile is re-routed via Keith Road and Linthorpe Road.

For the Busway change:
X34 is a revised route with the Horsely Hill loop reversed. Also the introduction of the Sunday journeys in the run-up to Christmas.
X24: Sunday journeys introduced as well as journeys to Doxford Park (from where not mentioned) which will operate as X24A.
16: Amended timetable and route in the Red House area
4: Minors changes to Weekday timetable
X1: amended timetable to better reflect shift patterns

Will a extra Omnilink be sourced or is the X24A peak time only... Hopefully it won't drop to hourly

(26 Sep 2017, 11:13 am)Michael wrote Will a extra Omnilink be sourced or is the X24A peak time only... Hopefully it won't drop to hourly

I would guess it'll be a morning peak towards Doxford Park and evening peak away from the park. This would fill empty journeys as currently the majority of their market is from Sunderland towards Newcastle, returning in the afternoon. Therefore if they can build a market towards Sunderland it will help.

(26 Sep 2017, 11:27 am)tyresmoke wrote I would guess it'll be a morning peak towards Doxford Park and evening peak away from the park. This would fill empty journeys as currently the majority of their market is from Sunderland towards Newcastle, returning in the afternoon. Therefore if they can build a market towards Sunderland it will help.

Almost what Arriva did when there did a peak service between Newcastle and doxford park?, might be for stagecoach passengers in the Newcastle area traveling to work at doxy.


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(26 Sep 2017, 9:26 am)tyresmoke wrote PB0001987/1 Registered
CLEVELAND TRANSIT LTD
Route: Middlesbrough Bus Station to Lingfield Park
Service number: 11 (10)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 19 Nov 2017

PB0001987/239 Registered
CLEVELAND TRANSIT LTD
Route: Hemlington or Stainton to Salters Lane
Service number: 1313A (13, 13A)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 19 Nov 2017

Just a guess but would appear they're going to re-route one 13 an hour to Stainton as a 13A, no longer serving Hemlington. I guess that's the best they can do without adding extra resource into it

Ridiculous rerouting the 10s just because some councillor in Coulby Newham has complained about the loss of direct buses from parts of Coulby Newham to Linthorpe Road. There is a 12 every 10 minutes from the Parkway Centre or they could change on Marton Road to the 63 every 10 minutes.
As a result the Longlands area lose 3 of their 5 buses per hour each way during the day and their entire Sunday service.

(26 Sep 2017, 11:13 am)Michael wrote Will a extra Omnilink be sourced or is the X24A peak time only... Hopefully it won't drop to hourly

There's a lot of layover built into the timetable at the moment to help recover if the service suffers any delays at peak time. I wonder if this layover will be removed, in favour of tighter turnarounds and extending the route, or if the X24A will be operated by gas buses (interworking with services 12/13)?

(26 Sep 2017, 1:46 pm)cbma06 wrote Almost what Arriva did when there did a peak service between Newcastle and doxford park?, might be for stagecoach passengers in the Newcastle area traveling to work at doxy.

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It'll be interesting to see if passenger demand has changed since 2013, when Arriva withdrew their X19 service due to low passenger numbers.

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nort...es-5589201

(26 Sep 2017, 3:07 pm)Dan wrote It'll be interesting to see if passenger demand has changed since 2013, when Arriva withdrew their X19 service due to low passenger numbers.

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nort...es-5589201

Hopefully Stagecoach's superior suburban networks in Sunderland & Newcastle will make the X24A attractive for season ticket holders.

(26 Sep 2017, 3:07 pm)Dan wrote There's a lot of layover built into the timetable at the moment to help recover if the service suffers any delays at peak time. I wonder if this layover will be removed, in favour of tighter turnarounds and extending the route, or if the X24A will be operated by gas buses (interworking with services 12/13)?



It'll be interesting to see if passenger demand has changed since 2013, when Arriva withdrew their X19 service due to low passenger numbers.

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nort...es-5589201

They could do that, no changes for the 12/13 atm though...they might appear later this week.

Wonder what route it will take out of Sunderland.......

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(26 Sep 2017, 3:46 pm)James101 wrote Hopefully Stagecoach's superior suburban networks in Sunderland & Newcastle will make the X24A attractive for season ticket holders.

Hopefully, i think it will, that's why i think the X24 is working for them, the network they have in Sunderland and Newcastle is decent, and with the cheap prices for day tickets, even better.

(26 Sep 2017, 3:46 pm)James101 wrote Hopefully Stagecoach's superior suburban networks in Sunderland & Newcastle will make the X24A attractive for season ticket holders.

When the X24 was initially launched, I wondered if it would replicate the X34 model and start from an estate and maybe pass through Doxford Park.
Obviously it didn't.

However, with this variation, it could now do that - assuming it goes via the A19 to/from Doxford Park.

(26 Sep 2017, 7:32 pm)Andreos1 wrote When the X24 was initially launched, I wondered if it would replicate the X34 model and start from an estate and maybe pass through Doxford Park.
Obviously it didn't.

However, with this variation, it could now do that - assuming it goes via the A19 to/from Doxford Park.

Before the original route became knowledge, I did mention to stagecoach that the route could serve the estates, original route I proposed was starting at grangetown terminus then head over to ryhope-tunstall estate-doxy park-Farringdon-thorney- grindon-Hastings hill then A19, same as x34 serving the estates but not the town.


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(26 Sep 2017, 8:14 pm)cbma06 wrote Before the original route became knowledge, I did mention to stagecoach that the route could serve the estates, original route I proposed was starting at grangetown terminus then head over to ryhope-tunstall estate-doxy park-Farringdon-thorney- grindon-Hastings hill then A19, same as x34 serving the estates but not the town.


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Problem is its not much of an express from Ryhope etc if it diverts through all those estates before running non stop from Hastings Hill.  I think their existing X24 model straight out along a major artery is part of what makes the X24 appealing to passengers.  I still think there could be a market for an X24 variant to run from City Centre along Durham Road, calling at Doxford Park at peak times then on to Newcastle non-stop. There's no competition (bus or metro) to Newcastle along the length of Durham Road.

(26 Sep 2017, 8:14 pm)cbma06 wrote Before the original route became knowledge, I did mention to stagecoach that the route could serve the estates, original route I proposed was starting at grangetown terminus then head over to ryhope-tunstall estate-doxy park-Farringdon-thorney- grindon-Hastings hill then A19, same as x34 serving the estates but not the town.


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Hopefully it's:
Doxford Park (peak time only) - Sunderland - Gateshead - Newcastle

Not sure what route it would do between Sunderland and Doxford Park..

Hope they don't remove it from the City Centre..

(26 Sep 2017, 8:36 pm)Michael wrote Hopefully it's:
Doxford Park (peak time only) - Sunderland - Gateshead - Newcastle

Not sure what route it would do between Sunderland and Doxford Park..

Hope they don't remove it from the City Centre..

Could the X24A not just run from Doxford International direct to Gateshead, this would allow fast journey times. If it was to run via the city centre they would take the X1 off.

(26 Sep 2017, 8:33 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Problem is its not much of an express from Ryhope etc if it diverts through all those estates before running non stop from Hastings Hill.  I think their existing X24 model straight out along a major artery is part of what makes the X24 appealing to passengers.  I still think there could be a market for an X24 variant to run from City Centre along Durham Road, calling at Doxford Park at peak times then on to Newcastle non-stop. There's no competition (bus or metro) to Newcastle along the length of Durham Road.

So like a loop service at Peak times?

Doxford Park - Sunderland - Hastings hill - Gateshead - Newcastle - Doxford Park? - Only at Peak times.


Maybe the X24A will be on seperate board, nothing to do with the X24, like Dan suggested.

(26 Sep 2017, 8:40 pm)S830OFT wrote Could the X24A not just run from Doxford International direct to Gateshead, this would allow fast journey times. If it was to run via the city centre they would take the X1 off.

If the X24a only runs peak times between doxy and Newcastle , Newcastle could put the bus on that run?


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(26 Sep 2017, 8:44 pm)cbma06 wrote If the X24a only runs peak times between doxy and Newcastle , Newcastle could put the bus on that run?


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Not really as a journey on X24 is being pulled from Sunderland to Newcastle to allow the X24A to operate. So after doing the X24A to Newcastle it would return as the X24.

(26 Sep 2017, 8:41 pm)Michael wrote So like a loop service at Peak times?

Doxford Park - Sunderland - Hastings hill - Gateshead - Newcastle - Doxford Park? - Only at Peak times.


Maybe the X24A will be on seperate board, nothing to do with the X24, like Dan suggested.

I was thinking more of a separate service - Sunderland direct via Durham Road & City Way to Doxford Park, direct via A19 to Newcastle picking up along Durham Road and Doxford Park then non stop.  Not sure passenger numbers would be enough to justify half hourly X24 and a Durham Road serivce though, and I imagine Stagecoach would want to keep a half hourly frequency via Chester Road as a fair number board/alight along that corridor.  Would be great if they could.

I think it's more likely though, particularly given it is just an A variation on the route number, that we'll just see peak am Newcastle depature(s) and peak pm Sundelrand departure(s) rerouted to run to Doxford Park instead of Chester Road and City Centre, as someone else suggested, sadly.

Are the Sunday journeys that are being introduced on the X24 just for the run up to Christmas like the X34, or is it a permanent all year round Sunday service?

(30 Sep 2017, 6:46 pm)big mac wrote Are the Sunday journeys that are being introduced on the X24 just for the run up to Christmas like the X34, or is it a permanent all year round Sunday service?

Hopefully permanent, it could just run likes its bank holiday service, between 10am and 4/5pm.