(23 May 2022, 9:35 pm)Unber43 wrote 4 & X4 

4 - Same Route

X4 - Every 30 mins Houghton - Washington - A194 - Follingsby - Heworth PVR 4.

Why, it’d hardly be any quicker than the 4 and you’d miss out Concord etc

Just spitballing a couple of ideas:
2/2A: Withdrawn between Silksworth & Sunderland
35/35A: Withdrawn between Sunderland & Heworth, then extended back to Shields, replacing the 20 (no need for the 24). 35A to Rainton Bridge rather than Moorsley now half-hourly all day providing 15-min headway Shields - Sunderland (this is basically how it was before it was diverted to Boldon, just a different frequency).
New route (I'm numbering it the 42 for historical reasons) Silksworth - Sunderland - TEF covering withdrawn sections of 2A and 35.

(23 May 2022, 10:06 pm)F114TML wrote Just spitballing a couple of ideas:
2/2A: Withdrawn between Silksworth & Sunderland
35/35A: Withdrawn between Sunderland & Heworth, then extended back to Shields, replacing the 20 (no need for the 24). 35A  to Rainton Bridge rather than Moorsley now half-hourly all day providing 15-min headway Shields - Sunderland (this is basically how it was before it was diverted to Boldon, just a different frequency).
New route (I'm numbering it the 42 for historical reasons) Silksworth - Sunderland - TEF covering withdrawn sections of 2A and 35.

The 56/8/9 Covers a lot of the 35 route from Sunderland - Bolden. Really if needs be due to contracts 135/136 could be extended to Heworth as they are only in Mornings and evenings

Whats TEF?

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2/A/B

2 - Current Route to Washington then 85 route to Concord.

2A Current Route then Part of the 84.

2B - Sunderland - A690 - Thorney - Grindon - Hastings - 82 Route to Birtley

Every 10 mins.

(23 May 2022, 10:09 pm)Unber43 wrote The 56/8/9 Covers a lot of the 35 route from Sunderland - Bolden. Really if needs be due to contracts 135/136 could be extended to Heworth as they are only in Mornings and evenings

Whats TEF?

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2/A/B

2 - Current Route to Washington then 85 route to Concord.

2A Current Route then Part of the 84.

2B -  Sunderland - A690 - Thorney - Grindon - Hastings - 82 Route to Birtley

Every 10 mins.

TEF = Town End Farm, the proposed new terminus of the 35. The 35 (and my 42) make links to Hylton Riverside from North Sunderland, though, and tbh the 8 and 56 don't cover the 35 that well without relying on Stagecoach.

(23 May 2022, 10:17 pm)F114TML wrote TEF = Town End Farm, the proposed new terminus of the 35. The 35 (and my 42) make links to Hylton Riverside from North Sunderland, though, and tbh the 8 and 56 don't cover the 35 that well without relying on Stagecoach.

42/43 

42/43 Silksworth - Sunderland Stand E, then 42 - could go through Pallion Castletown - Hylton - Downhill  
                                                                43 - Redhouse - Downhill 

Every 20 mins each, giving Silksworth - Sunderland every 10 mins. 

I don't feel like 2 needs to server Toward Road either.

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I would 100% say a lot of the Sunderland services need reimagining.

Re-Do of Sunderland 

2 - Current Route to Washington then 85 route to Concord.

2A Current Route then Part of the 84.

2B - Sunderland - A690 - Thorney - Grindon - Hastings - 82 Route to Birtley (together every 10 mins) 

5 & 26 extended to Sunderland via Whitburn & Horsley Every 30 mins each 

9 No Change.

20 - No Change (15) 

X20 (avoid rainton to let 35 get passengers) 

32/33 (1ph) - 32 go via Tunstall Road into Stand E. 


35/36 Low - Moorsley (every 30 mins)  - South Shields Stand P & M every 15 mins 36 avoids Herrington, instead through Farringdon & Thorney. 

38/A - Docks Circular Stand S

39/40 Doxford - Thorney - Grindon - Hastings - Pennywell - Ford Estate - MillField - Sunderland Park Lane Stand R & P) - Toward Road - Ryhope - Tunstall - Doxford. Every 15 mins

55 - Peterlee - Hetton - Houghton - A690 - Doxford (20 way) - Moorside - Farringdon - Thorney - Thornhill - Sunderland  Stand P (Every 30 mins) 

56 ( No Change ) 

60 (no change) 

61 ( Solo Every 20 mins, refurbed 647-650 ) Send it via Queen alexandra Road 

62 Re-Time to leave 30 mins before the X6, extend it upto Parkside - Peterlee - Shotton. 

Fleet Allocation predictions for July 2022 changes - deckers

Option 1 - Most likely
StreetDeck:
- 6331, 6356-62, 6377 - X21
- 6363 - X1
- 6332-33 - Washington Spare

E400:
- 6338-40 - X30/X31
- 6341-49 - X45/X71/X72
- 6350-51 - Consett Spare

B5TL:
- 6308-13 - 47
- 6314, 6334-35 - CLS Spare

B9TL:
- 6043-43 - Riverside (1x spare and 1x 58)
- 6045-48 - X5/X15



Option 2 - Unlikely but possible if Riverside take evening & Sunday X30 boards
StreetDeck:
- 6333, 6356-62, 6377 - X45/X71/X72
- 6363 - X1
- 6331-32 - Washington Spare

E400:
- 6338-39 - Consett Spare
- 6340-42 - X30/X31
- 6343-51 - X21

B5TL:
- 6308-13 - 47
- 6314, 6334-35 - CLS Spare

B9TL:
- 6043-43 - Riverside (1x spare and 1x 58)
- 6045-48 - X5/X15


Option 3 - Unlikely unless GNE wanted to dilute the XLines brand and X45
StreetDeck:
- 6331-33 - CLS Spare
- 6356-61 - 47
- 6362-63 X1
- 6376-77 - Washington Spare

E400:
- 6338-40 - X30/X31
- 6341-49 - X45/X71/X72
- 6350-51 - Consett Spare

B5TL:
- Unchanged from now

B9TL:
- 6043-43 - Riverside (1x spare and 1x 58)
- 6045-48 - X5/X15

(23 May 2022, 11:01 pm)Unber43 wrote Re-Do of Sunderland 

2 - Current Route to Washington then 85 route to Concord.

2A Current Route then Part of the 84.

2B - Sunderland - A690 - Thorney - Grindon - Hastings - 82 Route to Birtley (together every 10 mins) 

5 & 26 extended to Sunderland via Whitburn & Horsley Every 30 mins each 

9 No Change.

20 - No Change (15) 

X20 (avoid rainton to let 35 get passengers) 

32/33 (1ph) - 32 go via Tunstall Road into Stand E. 


35/36 Low - Moorsley (every 30 mins)  - South Shields Stand P & M every 15 mins 36 avoids Herrington, instead through Farringdon & Thorney. 

38/A - Docks Circular Stand S

39/40 Doxford - Thorney - Grindon - Hastings - Pennywell - Ford Estate - MillField - Sunderland Park Lane Stand R & P) - Toward Road - Ryhope - Tunstall - Doxford. Every 15 mins

55 - Peterlee - Hetton - Houghton - A690 - Doxford (20 way) - Moorside - Farringdon - Thorney - Thornhill - Sunderland  Stand P (Every 30 mins) 

56 ( No Change ) 

60 (no change) 

61 ( Solo Every 20 mins, refurbed 647-650 ) Send it via Queen alexandra Road 

62 Re-Time to leave 30 mins before the X6, extend it upto Parkside - Peterlee - Shotton. 

Some of these suggestions are a non starter. GNE are never going to run services through Sunderland estates. Natural SNE territory. GNE should concentrate on District services, linking Sunderland to Co Durham. The TWPTE 1985 timetable  ‘bible’ offers some great routes.

On a slightly different note, I was just wondering how route timings are worked out? Currently on a Red Kite Ranger 47 from Consett. Left on time at 10 56, due at Chopwell at 11 22 but didn't get there till 11.29, 7 mins late and there wasn't a great deal of stops and the driver didn't hang about either. Just felt it was impossible to keep to time.

(02 Jun 2022, 10:32 am)Tiger5105 wrote On a slightly different note, I was just wondering how route timings are worked out? Currently on a Red Kite Ranger 47 from Consett. Left on time at 10 56, due at Chopwell at 11 22 but didn't get there till 11.29, 7 mins late and there wasn't a great deal of stops and the driver didn't hang about either. Just felt it was impossible to keep to time.

Worked out by people who dont drive the routes, they look at maps and a supposedly clever computer programme works it out, it doesn't work in real time especially on sunday timetables on a weekday (all be it a bank holiday) they are designed for no traffic, no stopping at traffic lights and definitely not stopping for passengers, you could not do some times in a car never mind a bus

(02 Jun 2022, 11:45 am)N1cholas wrote Worked out by people who dont drive the routes, they look at maps and a supposedly clever computer programme works it out, it doesn't work in real time especially on sunday timetables on a weekday (all be it a bank holiday) they are designed for no traffic, no stopping at traffic lights and definitely not stopping for passengers, you could not do some times in a car never mind a bus

Ended up arriving at Eldon Sq at 12.30 instead of 12.08. Then more time lost, probably back to Consett, with people no doubt wondering if their bus is going to turn up, given reduced frequencies today.

(02 Jun 2022, 12:05 pm)Tiger5105 wrote Ended up arriving at Eldon Sq at 12.30 instead of 12.08. Then more time lost, probably back to Consett, with people no doubt wondering if their bus is going to turn up, given reduced frequencies today.

Today, there are more buses late than ontime, of the 50 or so I just checked.

A few more ideas I have for the country Durham/ Tees Valley side of things.

All following services will use the Angel Brand
21 Continues as now but cut back to every 30 Minutes hourly on Sundays and Bank Holidays. Will no longer Serve Arnison centre.


21A Will combine with 21 to create a 15 minute frequency Between Eldon Square and Durham but will operate via Arnison centre and continue to Langley Park

22 Will operate via Harlow Green to Chester Le Street.

X22. Will operate limited stop via 21 route to Chester Le Street. Will then continue on Houghton Le Spring Easington Village Peterlee and Hartlepool. Will be hourly Monday - Saturday only.

X23 As X22 but will operate as Far as Houghton Le Spring before continuing on to Seaham.

All services operating under Tees Express or Return of Go Express Name.

X6 Will continue as now but once again extend to Hartlepool via Castle Eden Hart Village, Bishop Cuthbert and Throston Grange.

X7 Will once again return but operate to Middlesbrough via Wingate Sedgefield, Stockton and Teesside Park. It will no longer serve Dalton Park or Seaham.

X8 Middlesbrough - Seaham operate via X7 route but omitting Teesside Park and will serve Billingham instead of Stockton. Will then continue via Wolviston Village to Sedgefield and Wingate to Peterlee. Will then operate via Dalton Park to Seaham.

X9 and X10 will split back to pre covid route with both operation hourly Monday - Saturday and every 2 hours on Sundays.

x11 as Now.

East Durham network.

To match better service numbers all services will reduce to double digit with the 2 prefix dropped.

25 Peterlee - Hartlepool ( Eveings and Sundays only. ). This will operate the 23 route to Hartlepool Town Centre then continue to the Marina and Maritime Avenue returning via Coronation Drive, Huckleoven Way, Tower Street and Church Square. Service will operate half hourly between 8 - 10 and hourly after that. ( would if possible be funded by DCC).

55 Will continue as now but all services starting from Peterlee bus Station. Will now be limited stop though.

62 - Will continue as now but 62A will no longer operate.

(02 Jun 2022, 12:05 pm)Tiger5105 wrote Ended up arriving at Eldon Sq at 12.30 instead of 12.08. Then more time lost, probably back to Consett, with people no doubt wondering if their bus is going to turn up, given reduced frequencies today.

Sunday timetables are very hit / miss. For example, if it's lashing down with rain, a driver making a bit progress will have plenty of waiting time. If the suns out, different story. Likewise, opposite way around for the X45/X46/47/47A depending on demand for the MetroCentre.

Realistically, something like a "Saturday minus" timetable for some routes would make sense on Bank Holidays.

(02 Jun 2022, 12:05 pm)Tiger5105 wrote Ended up arriving at Eldon Sq at 12.30 instead of 12.08. Then more time lost, probably back to Consett, with people no doubt wondering if their bus is going to turn up, given reduced frequencies today.

Sunday frequencies are usually dead tight as there's usually less traffic on the road. Probably why it's having bother.

Not a surprise loads are late today.

(02 Jun 2022, 3:51 pm)Storx wrote Sunday frequencies are usually dead tight as there's usually less traffic on the road. Probably why it's having bother.

Not a surprise loads are late today.

Whilst Sunday frequencies MIGHT be alright on a Bank Holiday, Sunday running times are not. There is far more traffic on a Bank Holiday (especially when they are at the end of the week).

Around 1300 today a pair on Angels passed the Angel northbound, then over 20 minutes later another pair passed. the second one showing "Gateshead" on the destination.

GNE might well have to do something differently on Bank Holidays post the service cuts as Sunday frequencies may well be lower than today.

Their twitter feed is full of "We are sorry but due to delayed operation" today -- hopefully, someone in charge will see all these tweets and sort something out for future bank holidays. Oh, wait - there is another one tomorrow. 

GNE appear to have a teleport to get passengers from Eldon Square to Gateshead, given the number of passengers told to make their way over at short notice when their bus is truncated. https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Teleport

(02 Jun 2022, 4:02 pm)busmanT wrote Whilst Sunday frequencies MIGHT be alright on a Bank Holiday, Sunday running times are not. There is far more traffic on a Bank Holiday (especially when they are at the end of the week).

Around 1300 today a pair on Angels passed the Angel northbound, then over 20 minutes later another pair passed. the second one showing "Gateshead" on the destination.

GNE might well have to do something differently on Bank Holidays post the service cuts as Sunday frequencies may well be lower than today.

Their twitter feed is full of "We are sorry but due to delayed operation" today -- hopefully, someone in charge will see all these tweets and sort something out for future bank holidays. Oh, wait - there is another one tomorrow. 

GNE appear to have a teleport to get passengers from Eldon Square to Gateshead, given the number of passengers told to make their way over at short notice when their bus is truncated. https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Teleport

Ive noticed quite a few of these lately. no always running in pairs either.  There was an angel branded bus sitting at gateshead yesterday for around 20 minutes too

(02 Jun 2022, 4:28 pm)Rob44 wrote Ive noticed quite a few of these lately. no always running in pairs either.  There was an angel branded bus sitting at gateshead yesterday for around 20 minutes too

There was a 21 due to go to Brandon (last one of the night) which started at Gateshead.

Surely the only ones which should start from Gateshead should be the ones to CLS. Or atlease someone in Eldon Square could say 21 will wait for you jump onto X.

(02 Jun 2022, 3:51 pm)Storx wrote Sunday frequencies are usually dead tight as there's usually less traffic on the road. Probably why it's having bother.

Not a surprise loads are late today.

Have to agree for the Rowlands Gill to Newcastle section but the Consett to Chopwell section this morning, the 47 ended up being 7 mins late after leaving Consett on time, with not that much traffic and few stops. It has to be said though that 6046 was surprisingly poor climbing hills for a B9 and probably no exaggeration to say I could have walked from Benfieldside to elm Park just as quick as the bus. I thought it was going to stop completely at one point!

Would there possibly be an argument to have a Saturday service on a Bank Holiday or do passenger numbers not justify it? In terms of the running time at least, Sunday service on Bank Holidays seems to lead to a lot of delayed services.

(02 Jun 2022, 6:04 pm)big mac wrote Would there possibly be an argument to have a Saturday service on a Bank Holiday or do passenger numbers not justify it? In terms of the running time at least, Sunday service on Bank Holidays seems to lead to a lot of delayed services.

Usually bank holidays normally on a Monday, a lot of drivers would want the day off , maybe there have things to do on that bank holiday with family etc…, also costs less for the bus companies to pay out for running costs. If you want more bus services with higher frequencies then the passenger has to contact there local council to foot the bill, don’t forget the bus companies are a business to make profit and running extra services and frequencies might cause a loss for that day towards the bus company


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There’s a lot of passengers out today and not realising that it’s a Sunday service for today and Friday, as most are on automatic pilot as a normal Thursday and Friday


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(02 Jun 2022, 6:04 pm)big mac wrote Would there possibly be an argument to have a Saturday service on a Bank Holiday or do passenger numbers not justify it?  In terms of the running time at least, Sunday service on Bank Holidays seems to lead to a lot of delayed services.

Doubt it they're usually quite quiet. This Bank Holiday is weird as it doesn't feel like a BH to most people, most the supermarkets are just operating normal hours whereas a BH would usually be Sunday hours or seriously reduced hours. Most shops and leisure are the same I believe.

I don't understand why it's Thursday and Friday instead of Monday and Tuesday like in 2012, it was much better that way imo.

(02 Jun 2022, 6:46 pm)Storx wrote Doubt it they're usually quite quiet. This Bank Holiday is weird as it doesn't feel like a BH to most people, most the supermarkets are just operating normal hours whereas a BH would usually be Sunday hours or seriously reduced hours. Most shops and leisure are the same I believe.

I don't understand why it's Thursday and Friday instead of Monday and Tuesday like in 2012, it was much better that way imo.

The 2nD of June is the anniversary of the Queens coronation.

(02 Jun 2022, 7:23 pm)Economic505 wrote The 2nD of June is the anniversary of the Queens coronation.

Makes sense then, must admit I haven't been following it much, not the biggest fan of royalty stuff, but not against it either like some. Just not my cup of tea.

(02 Jun 2022, 6:26 pm)cbma06 wrote Usually bank holidays normally on a Monday, a lot of drivers would want the day off , maybe there have things to do on that bank holiday with family etc…, also costs less for the bus companies to pay out for running costs. If you want more bus services with higher frequencies then the passenger has to contact there local council to foot the bill, don’t forget the bus companies are a business to make profit and running extra services and frequencies might cause a loss for that day towards the bus company


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There’s a lot of passengers out today and not realising that it’s a Sunday service for today and Friday, as most are on automatic pilot as a normal Thursday and Friday


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Public service for the public. Shouldn't be about profit - no matter which you paint it today's service failed to provide a service and that is looking at GNEs twitter.

Saw quite a few peoplpe waitsing for the 750am 28a this morning whilst taking the other half to work......... would have a long wait as i thin the first bus on " sunday service" is 930 ish!

(03 Jun 2022, 10:43 am)Rob44 wrote Saw quite a few peoplpe waitsing for the 750am 28a this morning whilst taking the other half to work......... would have a long wait as i thin the first bus on " sunday service" is 930 ish!

Quite a few have been caught out by the Sunday service offered over the Bank Holiday, saw someone stood waiting for a bus at Aycliffe Town Centre when the first journey wasn't for another 30 mins at that moment.

(03 Jun 2022, 2:00 pm)Jimmi wrote Quite a few have been caught out by the Sunday service offered over the Bank Holiday, saw someone stood waiting for a bus at Aycliffe Town Centre when the first journey wasn't for another 30 mins at that moment.

I've worked the last several chritmas days and new years days and never seen anyone out on chritmas but remember one new years day saw several people waiting for buses early on a morning when i was sure none were running!

19/41/41A merged to create a new service 19 and would operate as follows-Hadrian Park Addington Drive,Battle Hill Drive,Mullen Road,Wiltshire Drive,Springwell Gardens,Cross Avenue,Station Road,Wallsend Interchange,High Street East,Tynemouth Road,Waterville Road,,North Shields Ferry Landing,Fish Quay,North Shields,Howdon Road,Percy Main,Tyne Tunnel Trading Estate,Cobalt,Northumberland Park current route to Ashington

(03 Jun 2022, 10:43 am)Rob44 wrote Saw quite a few peoplpe waitsing for the 750am 28a this morning whilst taking the other half to work......... would have a long wait as i thin the first bus on " sunday service" is 930 ish!

I noticed a similar thing yesterday morning around Harlow Green with three people waiting at the stop for the 25 at 8am, when the first bus wasn't going to be for about another hour and a half.