(31 May 2022, 6:59 pm)Benny wrote I'd say send the new buses above all to Newcastle. Send 5 of the 200MMC from Stockton so that service 36 is the flagship route plus 1 spare. 37/38 could use old deckers from Newcastle or routes like 10/13/14 could be ran by midi buses from Newcastle.  

Hartlepool will get whatever is spare.

Why should keep getting the crap though there’s been no new buses here since 2008. The majority are knackered it’s in desperate need of new buses.

Stagecoach Hartlepool need new buses I think?

(31 May 2022, 10:00 pm)glen wrote Stagecoach Hartlepool need new buses I think?

They definitely need them the current fleet is falling to bits.

(31 May 2022, 9:20 pm)col87 wrote Why should keep getting the crap though there’s been no new buses here since 2008. The majority are knackered it’s in desperate need of new buses.

Hartlepool would be the perfect depot for full electric buses, which I'm surprised they didn't do for ZEBRA. I just can't see any new buses coming to Hartlepool atm, from a business point any buses that need to be bought are purely for CAZ at Newcastle.

(31 May 2022, 10:48 pm)col87 wrote They definitely need them the current fleet is falling to bits.

I hate being negative but Hartlepool is a bit of a basketcase of a depot and I have a feeling the area could be in big trouble when the BSIP payments end.

Other than the 36 there's nothing really strong there hence it's low cost and is dumped with any crap they can find with the 36 conveniently ran from Stockton instead.

You'll get Hydrogen buses on the 36 soon'ish but the rest of the depot won't ever get a new bus again imo.

South Shields is the same with the E1/E2/E6 moved to Wheatsheaf.

(01 Jun 2022, 6:41 pm)Storx wrote I hate being negative but Hartlepool is a bit of a basketcase of a depot and I have a feeling the area could be in big trouble when the BSIP payments end.

Other than the 36 there's nothing really strong there hence it's low cost and is dumped with any crap they can find with the 36 conveniently ran from Stockton instead.

You'll get Hydrogen buses on the 36 soon'ish but the rest of the depot won't ever get a new bus again imo.

South Shields is the same with the E1/E2/E6 moved to Wheatsheaf.

The thing is if the fleet was a lot better and Stagecoach had some better services then it might just become profitable. The Headland and Seaton for example get busy this time of year when the weather gets nice but you have 1 service to each place using buses that are knackered which can often result in breakdowns meaning the service can get unreliable. Better buses to places people want to go to Seaton, Headland, Teesbay Retail park, maybe Tesco, the Marina, Hospital both Hartlepool and North Tees then you would probably see better profits.  There not really anything else they can cut from the service here either. Most of the town has nothing after 6:30 the only service to the villages is a minibus service operated by a local minibus company a few times a week or the so called Tees flex. Some areas barely get a service every 30 minutes and parts of the town have no Service at all. Reducing the 6 and 7 which can get busy at times as it is will just cause more problems so really can’t see what else they could cut.

(01 Jun 2022, 7:24 pm)col87 wrote The thing is if the fleet was a lot better and Stagecoach had some better services then it might just become profitable. The Headland and Seaton for example get busy this time of year when the weather gets nice but you have 1 service to each place using buses that are knackered which can often result in breakdowns meaning the service can get unreliable. Better buses to places people want to go to Seaton, Headland, Teesbay Retail park, maybe Tesco, the Marina, Hospital both Hartlepool and North Tees then you would probably see better profits.  There not really anything else they can cut from the service here either. Most of the town has nothing after 6:30 the only service to the villages is a minibus service operated by a local minibus company a few times a week or the so called Tees flex. Some areas barely get a service every 30 minutes and parts of the town have no Service at all. Reducing the 6 and 7 which can get busy at times as it is will just cause more problems so really can’t see what else they could cut.

*insert name of most operators* had some better services then it might just become profitable.
Fixed it for you. 

I genuinely don't know how something that's so blindingly obvious keeps whooshing over the head of those who are paid to look after the network.

(01 Jun 2022, 7:24 pm)col87 wrote The thing is if the fleet was a lot better and Stagecoach had some better services then it might just become profitable. The Headland and Seaton for example get busy this time of year when the weather gets nice but you have 1 service to each place using buses that are knackered which can often result in breakdowns meaning the service can get unreliable. Better buses to places people want to go to Seaton, Headland, Teesbay Retail park, maybe Tesco, the Marina, Hospital both Hartlepool and North Tees then you would probably see better profits.  There not really anything else they can cut from the service here either. Most of the town has nothing after 6:30 the only service to the villages is a minibus service operated by a local minibus company a few times a week or the so called Tees flex. Some areas barely get a service every 30 minutes and parts of the town have no Service at all. Reducing the 6 and 7 which can get busy at times as it is will just cause more problems so really can’t see what else they could cut.

Must admit I'm not that well known of the Hartlepool network but it seems a bit crap with buses to Hartlepool and not anywhere else. Doesn't help Arriva have the decent routes where people actually might want to go Peterlee, Durham, Sunderland etc.

It's a funny one as I can't see how you could fix it as people just don't want to go to Hartlepool and if you have buses out of town then your competing with Arriva and/or the train.

Mind I think the 3/3A is the one that's in trouble even known it'll leave areas without a bus service plus the Arriva 57/57A aswell potentially.

This is what happens when areas get carved up

When stagecoach purchased Hartlepool transport, there was an agreement between united/Arriva and stagecoach , Arriva let stagecoach have Hartlepool south area towards billingham , Stockton and Middlesbrough. While stagecoach let Arriva have chunks of the Cleveland transit areas. In Hartlepool you can’t go east unless you got a boat, to go west Arriva withdrew (streamlined)there services towards bishop Auckland , Darlington etc.. and to force passengers heading that way to go via Durham to get to there destination, direct services don’t exist as there are not profitable and making the passenger/customer to travel the route the bus company wants and the times that there want, no wonder more and more are turning to cars etc…
Am surprised stagecoach Hartlepool didnt go the same way as stagecoach Darlington


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(31 May 2022, 10:00 pm)glen wrote Stagecoach Hartlepool need new buses I think?

they do but so does Newcastle for CAZ, kill two birds with one stone if say 15 new 200MMCs were bought for slatyford which could then cascade through Sunderland as they have Newcastle bound services, then down to hartlepool. as it is a lower input area than NCL and SDLD

(02 Jun 2022, 12:07 am)toward6931 wrote they do but so does Newcastle for CAZ, kill two birds with one stone if say 15 new 200MMCs were bought for slatyford which could then cascade through Sunderland as they have Newcastle bound services, then down to hartlepool. as it is a lower input area than NCL and SDLD

With the current financial predicament that the bus industry is in, I can't see any new buses being ordered unless they are bought with assistance from government funding. I can see the north east getting cast offs from Oxford, Cambridge, Coventry, Sheffield, Manchester and so on where they are getting new buses funded through government.

It will be interesting to see if Stagecoach's new owners DWS speed up investment as they have suggested they will do.

(02 Jun 2022, 12:07 am)toward6931 wrote they do but so does Newcastle for CAZ, kill two birds with one stone if say 15 new 200MMCs were bought for slatyford which could then cascade through Sunderland as they have Newcastle bound services, then down to hartlepool. as it is a lower input area than NCL and SDLD

Personally I think it'll be

Some Stockton Enviro 200 MMC -> Newcastle in return ALX 400 to Stockton
New Hydrogen Buses at Stockton from Tees Valley funding (12 and 36 are on the list) -> ALX400's withdrawn and remaining Enviro 200 MMC displaced to other routes at Stockton displacing the older Enviro's to Hartlepool and South Shields -> Withdrawing older routes and anything else lingering on older which hasn't been withdrawn from service cuts elsewhere.

So this Stockton getting new hydrogen buses then.

(02 Jun 2022, 11:17 am)glen wrote So this Stockton getting new hydrogen buses then.

There's nothing confirmed but Tees Valley are pushing it massively and there's numerous trials down there now. It's just a bit lost since they didn't get the Zebra funding but I believe they're bidding for something else later in the year. 

Its just a matter of time before something is Hydrogen down there whether it's converted buses or new buses is unknown though.

Thanks you for info mate

What you could do for Hartlepool is this.

1 High Tunstall - Middlesbrough kept as it is but possibly becoming a joint service with Stockton.
The High Tunstal Seaton Journey renumbered to 1A or 2. Meaning that reduces the number of buses Hartlepool need for it.

3/3A already had reductions down from 15 - 30 Minutes can’t really cut it further. Putting it back to inter working with the 6 could work though. 3 would run every 20 minutes.

6 continues as now but split back into every second Journey going to South Fens these Journeys renumbered as 5 on 20 minutes frequency. 6 would inter work with the 3.

7 could be dropped down to every 15 minutes going back up to 10 at peak times.

If more drivers and better buses become available also do a 7A again which operates via Millbank Road and Morrisons M - F daytimes
This would only be temporary solutions though the long aim should be better services.

Using Saint Patrick’s could do 3/6/7 inter working.
Say a fleet of 36
5 Dart SLF
10 of the better 08 plate enviros
6 Alexander 300 ( From Stockton or Newcastle )
2 Mercedes Benz sprinters ( Teesflex)
3 05 plate enviro 300 ( from Teesside )
10 64/15 plate Enviro 300 ( From Stockton ).
This would see off the majority of the 08 plate enviros. The 59 and 61 plate Dart bodied enviros could be used in spare capacity’s or go back to Sunderland/ Shields depots for work there.

If Newcastle get 20 or so buses such as mixture of enviro 200 and 400 MMC then Stockton could get older 57- 61 plate enviros as well as well as Alexander 300 freeing up some buses to move to Hartlepool which would make the fleet more reliable even if it is still mostly older buses.

No capital expenditure on this region mapped out. DWS will be more interested in profits from their newly gained share of ADL than what happens to Stagecoach North East...

It be nice see new buses at stagecoach north east.

(02 Jun 2022, 11:47 am)glen wrote Thanks you for info mate

No worries

(02 Jun 2022, 3:59 pm)54APhotography wrote No capital expenditure on this region mapped out. DWS will be more interested in profits from their newly gained share of ADL than what happens to Stagecoach North East...

As far as I'm aware Stagecoach doesn't have any shares in ADL. The Souter family does but it's not through Stagecoach, they own them direct through Souter Investments which also has a share in Stagecoach.

(02 Jun 2022, 5:13 pm)Storx wrote No worries


As far as I'm aware Stagecoach doesn't have any shares in ADL. The Souter family does but it's not through Stagecoach, they own them direct through Souter Investments which also has a share in Stagecoach.

Isn't ADL now owned by Nfi International Limited?

(02 Jun 2022, 10:00 pm)busmanT wrote Isn't ADL now owned by Nfi International Limited?

Aye believe so but they've got a share in NFI now, not sure what mind just checked there.

https://www.souterinvestments.com/news/s...nfi-group/

"Souter Investments will retain an equity interest in NFI and ADL going forward having been issued shares in NFI Group Inc. as part of the transaction."

(02 Jun 2022, 10:29 pm)Storx wrote Aye believe so but they've got a share in NFI now, not sure what mind just checked there.

https://www.souterinvestments.com/news/s...nfi-group/

"Souter Investments will retain an equity interest in NFI and ADL going forward having been issued shares in NFI Group Inc. as part of the transaction.

Makes sense, accountancy sense 

(02 Jun 2022, 9:10 am)busmanT wrote With the current financial predicament that the bus industry is in, I can't see any new buses being ordered unless they are bought with assistance from government funding. I can see the north east getting cast offs from Oxford, Cambridge, Coventry, Sheffield, Manchester and so on where they are getting new buses funded through government.

It will be interesting to see if Stagecoach's new owners DWS speed up investment as they have suggested they will do.

i dont think that manchester or sheffield will be sending anything to newcastle as i know sheffield has been receiving ex magic bus 07/57/08 and 58 plate E400s from manchester, apart from helping to maybe get rid of ALX300s or the Hartlepool E200s them buses would be unusable when the CAZ comes into force (if and when of course).

oxford could be a maybe as the oldest deckers there are about 13 2010 registered E400Hs and then a whole mix of standard and scania enviro 400s which range from 2010 to 2014 registered examples i believe so although not great they aren't terrible either

its welcome to see that some newer machines have arrived in the way of the 3 09 plate E300s from Carlisle with all the sounds saying they will be replacing 3 of the older ALX 300s when the commonwealth games is over, but i am disappointed that its not a substantial improvement, i mean the 08 plate 300s from Scotland were full of problems when they arrived and the three that are left currently do not sound in great health now

(22 Feb 2015, 3:38 pm)Kuyoyo wrote I would say, that the 12/39 would be the most likely routes to receive investment before 10/11 14/34 58/35 59/61 and 13 in that order. More than likely, the following would happen at Stockton:

• Service 12/39: 17 ADL E300s (Presently PVR 12, minor changes result in PVR 13 + 4 spares)
  
• Service 58/35: 5 ADL E300s (PVR 4)
  
• Service 59/61: 7 ADL E300s (PVR 6)
  

24101-15 would then be allocated to services 14/34 (6) and 10/11 (5) (while also being WiFi fitted) while 22061-6 would be retained for the 13 (5).

Never e300s on 35 normally alx300

When are stagecoach north east going to New buses again?

(02 Aug 2022, 8:00 pm)glen wrote When are stagecoach north east going to New buses again?

Whenever the owners decide to spend money again. At this rate Hartlepool really will have buses going out held together by type due to how knackered some of them are. It’s the only depot not to have investment over the last 10 and only 4 times it’s had any major investment since Stagecoach took over Hartlepool Transport.  

1995. Volvo B10S. 1999 Super Six branded Alexander 200 Darts. 2004 Service 1 branded Transbus Dart SLF. 
2008 Man Enviro 200.   

it shows Stagecoach don’t really care about Hartlepool when the very poor Man enviros which totally Unreliable are still the main bus in the Hartlepool fleet and still here 14 years later when the better Volvos went after 12 years most of the Alexander darts went after years and the majority of darts slf started getting moved after 11 years.  
Even some of the 59 and 11 plates dart type enviros don’t sound that good. Stagecoach just won’t spend the money though.

(04 Aug 2022, 8:59 am)col87 wrote it shows Stagecoach don’t really care about Hartlepool 

The 36 has gotten new buses every 5 years since 2009 and serves quite a bit of Hartlepool....

(04 Aug 2022, 3:28 pm)Benny wrote The 36 has gotten new buses every 5 years since 2009 and serves quite a bit of Hartlepool....

Is it true hartlepool getting optare

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I read somewhere a few buses from down south or Scotland will be getting shared out between pools and stockton as well as Hyrdos and E400s?

(04 Aug 2022, 3:28 pm)Benny wrote The 36 has gotten new buses every 5 years since 2009 and serves quite a bit of Hartlepool....

The 36 is not really a Hartlepool service though same as its not really a Middlesbrough service. The area it serves the most of is Stockton.  It’s no good if you need to get from the Headland or Hospital or Seaton Carew because the Enviros broke down again.

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(04 Aug 2022, 3:58 pm)Lollist wrote Is it true hartlepool getting optare

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I read somewhere a few buses from down south or Scotland will be getting shared out between pools and stockton as well as Hyrdos and E400s?

I wouldn’t believe anything until it happens.  They brought Darts up from Yorkshire intending to replace some of the enviros and only about two of them are another went to Shields and about 2 where scrapped straight away because they were worse than the existing fleet so if buses do come from elsewhere it probably won’t be much of an improvement like usual.   
The Hydro again are going to be for Stockton depot so will be of very little benefit for the Hartlepool services. ( 1 3 3A 6 and 7  I don’t really count the 20 or 980 since they early morning work services).