(02 Jun 2022, 1:33 pm)F114TML wrote Well Stagecoach must be doing something right. I just had a ride around Sunderland and plenty of buses were quite busy (yes it's a bank holiday, but still), only saw one bus that was empty, and that was because it was closely following another on the same route.

I noticed the 'open top' E1 board that 19645 was covering was literally trailing an E300 on the same route for much of the day, effectively competing with themselves!

(02 Jun 2022, 8:36 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote I noticed the 'open top' E1 board that 19645 was covering was literally trailing an E300 on the same route for much of the day, effectively competing with themselves!

Interesting - it was two 13s I saw, playing leap frog with each other. The comment was actually in reply to those saying Stagecaoch and Arriva have done nothing to push buses as being covid-safe (although it was vague enough I can see why it was moved - probably should've quoted some posts), only GNE, and yet Stagecoach are doing very well in terms of passenger numbers from what I've seen.

Very much like the issue with trains really…

The commuter market is all but gone, the leisure market is booming.

Timetables and mentality still favour the traditional weekday working market over the leisure market

(02 Jun 2022, 9:32 pm)Ambassador wrote Very much like the issue with trains really…

The commuter market is all but gone, the leisure market is booming.

Timetables and mentality still favour the traditional weekday working market over the leisure market

In fairness there's still very much so a commuter market, buses are still much busier in the morning and evening peak.

It's the bit inbetween 10am - 3pm'ish that is the problem since pensioners are scared to use the bus and everyone else is working so there's no / little demand anywhere.

How you fix that without getting the pensioners back on the bus, who knows but there's no point running bus services to bowling alleys and the like during those times.

(02 Jun 2022, 9:43 pm)Storx wrote In fairness there's still very much so a commuter market, buses are still much busier in the morning and evening peak.

It's the bit inbetween 10am - 3pm'ish that is the problem since pensioners are scared to use the bus and everyone else is working so there's no / little demand anywhere.

How you fix that without getting the pensioners back on the bus, who knows but there's no point running bus services to bowling alleys and the like during those times.

I thought pensioners were the problem because they use ENCTS and the operators don't get to squeeze enough profit out of that?  I'm sure the argument has been made on here that a bus full of conc pass holders is not commercially viable etc etc

(02 Jun 2022, 10:37 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote I thought pensioners were the problem because they use ENCTS and the operators don't get to squeeze enough profit out of that?  I'm sure the argument has been made on here that a bus full of conc pass holders is not commercially viable etc etc

Aye I have heard that before but I'm sure a bus full of ENCTS holders is better than a bus carrying fresh air instead. 

Lets be honest there's not many other people you can carry during the day really. There's not much of a leisure market at 11am on a Tuesday hence most places are dead or if they're not it's pensioners.

I'm guessing there was a lot of demand for GNE 78 as it seems to have deckers on today.

Thought I'd spend some time today experiencing the bank holiday services myself. I've already got a GNE All Zones ticket, so I limited what I did to GNE's services, before it's suggested that I'm picking on one particular operator! 

Journey log below:


I tried to vary as much as possible, using services or sections I generally don't use, but where I could also see volumes on other services. 

I didn't have any issues at all when I was out. Everything was just about on time, with the biggest delay being a couple of minutes. Aside from the Concord to Washington Galleries section on that 11.16 service 50 I used (which appeared to be running fully decker today), loadings were absolutely fine. There wasn't an instance where anyone had to stand and in fact, most people had a pair of seats to themselves. 

The busiest services I spotted were the X1, 20 and the 53/54. I'd say the X1 in particular, probably needs to have it's own timetable for bank holidays, as will some other services if these proposed changes go through... I can't imagine a two-hourly X10 being very pleasant to travel on, on a bank holiday! The 20, I was surprised wasn't being ran with deckers, given the SOL gig tonight and it being a nice day for the coast. That being said, Stagecoach were similarly running a largely single deck operation on the E1/E2/E6.

Bus stations I visited were generally quite busy. It felt more like Saturday volumes than a Sunday, but that's probably the result of a decent loading going out on one bus, rather than being drip fed across the hour on several. I also noticed a lack of timetable information out at Gateshead and the Metrocentre. Maybe the racks have been given the long weekend off?

In summary, from what I've seen today, the current Sunday service can cope with a bank holiday loads on the most part. I think there's certain services that need a special bank holiday timetable, others ran with deckers and earlier services for retail workers. Recognising that a lot of retail generally runs normal Saturday hours on a bank holiday.

The other thing to point out is that people on here (and I've been guilty of it myself) are often quick to condemn operators to hell based on twitter posts, from the comfort of their armchairs, but the service provided really isn't bad at all.

(03 Jun 2022, 6:10 pm)Adrian wrote Thought I'd spend some time today experiencing the bank holiday services myself. I've already got a GNE All Zones ticket, so I limited what I did to GNE's services, before it's suggested that I'm picking on one particular operator! 

Journey log below:


I tried to vary as much as possible, using services or sections I generally don't use, but where I could also see volumes on other services. 

I didn't have any issues at all when I was out. Everything was just about on time, with the biggest delay being a couple of minutes. Aside from the Concord to Washington Galleries section on that 11.16 service 50 I used (which appeared to be running fully decker today), loadings were absolutely fine. There wasn't an instance where anyone had to stand and in fact, most people had a pair of seats to themselves. 

The busiest services I spotted were the X1, 20 and the 53/54. I'd say the X1 in particular, probably needs to have it's own timetable for bank holidays, as will some other services if these proposed changes go through... I can't imagine a two-hourly X10 being very pleasant to travel on, on a bank holiday! The 20, I was surprised wasn't being ran with deckers, given the SOL gig tonight and it being a nice day for the coast. That being said, Stagecoach were similarly running a largely single deck operation on the E1/E2/E6.

Bus stations I visited were generally quite busy. It felt more like Saturday volumes than a Sunday, but that's probably the result of a decent loading going out on one bus, rather than being drip fed across the hour on several. I also noticed a lack of timetable information out at Gateshead and the Metrocentre. Maybe the racks have been given the long weekend off?

In summary, from what I've seen today, the current Sunday service can cope with a bank holiday loads on the most part. I think there's certain services that need a special bank holiday timetable, others ran with deckers and earlier services for retail workers. Recognising that a lot of retail generally runs normal Saturday hours on a bank holiday.

The other thing to point out is that people on here (and I've been guilty of it myself) are often quick to condemn operators to hell based on twitter posts, from the comfort of their armchairs, but the service provided really isn't bad at all.

Really I think maybe X20 (Langley between Durham), 20, X1, X21, 21.

(03 Jun 2022, 8:46 pm)Unber43 wrote Really I think maybe X20 (Langley between Durham), 20, X1, X21, 21.

Based on what you've seen over the past few days or assumptions?

X20 between Langley Park and Durham does nothing. I'd suggest that the proposed retention of this section in the consultation is to retain some form of service on a Sunday, not because its the most heavily used part of the route.

The 20 is an odd one IMO. If you get warm weather, then I think you'll get more people travelling to the coast and it warrants deckers on a bank holiday. On the other hand though, if it's not great weather, I can't see many people using it beyond Sunderland. 

I didn't see much of the 21/X21 to be able to comment.

(03 Jun 2022, 9:18 pm)Adrian wrote Based on what you've seen over the past few days or assumptions?

X20 between Langley Park and Durham does nothing. I'd suggest that the proposed retention of this section in the consultation is to retain some form of service on a Sunday, not because its the most heavily used part of the route.

The 20 is an odd one IMO. If you get warm weather, then I think you'll get more people travelling to the coast and it warrants deckers on a bank holiday. On the other hand though, if it's not great weather, I can't see many people using it beyond Sunderland. 

I didn't see much of the 21/X21 to be able to comment.

What I have seen, I would say the 65 & 20 are odd, theyve been very busy over the past few days, however this could be that not many people knew/thought of it as a bank holiday. I think the 20 definitely need a bank hoilday service. 

21/X21 I definitely think need a bank hoilday timetable every 15 mins between CLS-Newcastle, you could have X21 every 30 mins, West Aukland>Newcastle, then have one West Auckland>Chester-Le-Street (turning into a 21)

(03 Jun 2022, 9:18 pm)Adrian wrote Based on what you've seen over the past few days or assumptions?

X20 between Langley Park and Durham does nothing. I'd suggest that the proposed retention of this section in the consultation is to retain some form of service on a Sunday, not because its the most heavily used part of the route.

The 20 is an odd one IMO. If you get warm weather, then I think you'll get more people travelling to the coast and it warrants deckers on a bank holiday. On the other hand though, if it's not great weather, I can't see many people using it beyond Sunderland. 

I didn't see much of the 21/X21 to be able to comment.

The 20 doesn't touch the coast, or even go particularly near it.  If the Economics can manage with single decks on a sunny bank holiday I suspect the 20 can too.

What service will GNE be running tomorrow with it being a bank holiday, they don't seem to have put any information out.

I assume it'll just be a Sunday service?

Normally is a sunday service so presumably that's what they're running. Or rather attempting to run.

GNE should really bring out Bank Holiday timetable for certain services

The year 2022 and people still dont know that sunday service operates every bank holiday no matter if it is a monday or friday it will never change

(28 Aug 2022, 12:11 pm)N1cholas wrote The year 2022 and people still dont know that sunday service operates every bank holiday no matter if it is a monday or friday it will never change

Yes, but they normally put something out to say it's running to a Sunday service.

(28 Aug 2022, 11:58 am)Unber43 wrote GNE should really bring out Bank Holiday timetable for certain services

With what drivers? They and others are struggling to cover a normal Sunday service at the min, without giving yourself more of a problem. Not to mention that rota changes need a minimum period of notice.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

(28 Aug 2022, 12:11 pm)N1cholas wrote The year 2022 and people still dont know that sunday service operates every bank holiday no matter if it is a monday or friday it will never change

This is one of the reasons the industry will always fail to be an attractive option for people travelling.

Retail, leisure and work patterns have changed, but largely there's been a failure to adapt to them. Most town and city centres are now becoming leisure hot spots, as traditional retail is declining. This should be easy picking for bus operators, because unlike retail, people going out for food and drink generally (or I hope!) don't take their car.

Yet for many, its not worth the hassle of taking the bus on a Sunday or Bank Holiday. Frequencies are dire, demand outweighs capacity on key routes, and its generally a frustrating experience.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

(28 Aug 2022, 12:53 pm)Adrian wrote This is one of the reasons the industry will always fail to be an attractive option for people travelling.

Retail, leisure and work patterns have changed, but largely there's been a failure to adapt to them. Most town and city centres are now becoming leisure hot spots, as traditional retail is declining. This should be easy picking for bus operators, because unlike retail, people going out for food and drink generally (or I hope!) don't take their car.

Yet for many, its not worth the hassle of taking the bus on a Sunday or Bank Holiday. Frequencies are dire, demand outweighs capacity on key routes, and its generally a frustrating experience.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

For most people (or at least everybody that I know) Sundays and Bank Holidays are just normal days now, so why are operators still treating them as if they're special?

They can say it's because there aren't enough passengers, but why is that?

On a Sunday, I lose my direct half hourly services to Newcastle and Darlington, and go from 6 buses an hour to Durham, to one. It's literally not worth the risk to try and travel by bus on a Sunday!

so one on here always mentions that sundays should jist be like any other day.... well for me bank holiday mondays should be too. Can remember the last bank holiday i go off

(28 Aug 2022, 12:53 pm)Adrian wrote This is one of the reasons the industry will always fail to be an attractive option for people travelling.

Retail, leisure and work patterns have changed, but largely there's been a failure to adapt to them. Most town and city centres are now becoming leisure hot spots, as traditional retail is declining. This should be easy picking for bus operators, because unlike retail, people going out for food and drink generally (or I hope!) don't take their car.

Yet for many, its not worth the hassle of taking the bus on a Sunday or Bank Holiday. Frequencies are dire, demand outweighs capacity on key routes, and its generally a frustrating experience.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

I definitely think certain services, 20,21 (especially), X21, 65(even tho its just been reduced whenever i've used it its been busy on Sunday), 50, 4, X10

(28 Aug 2022, 1:23 pm)streetdeckfan wrote For most people (or at least everybody that I know) Sundays and Bank Holidays are just normal days now, so why are operators still treating them as if they're special?

They can say it's because there aren't enough passengers, but why is that?

On a Sunday, I lose my direct half hourly services to Newcastle and Darlington, and go from 6 buses an hour to Durham, to one. It's literally not worth the risk to try and travel by bus on a Sunday!

I would presume the issue lies with the drivers actually. Stagecoach offer extra benefits to drivers who work bank holidays (extra day added to holiday allowance and higher pay for that day), presumably GNE are the same. Ergo, passenger numbers need to be higher on Sundays and bank holidays. Would be interesting to see someone run a service with a normal timetable on a sunday/bank holiday. I'm doubtful it'd last long though unless it was something like the 20 or 21.

(28 Aug 2022, 1:34 pm)F114TML wrote I would presume the issue lies with the drivers actually. Stagecoach offer extra benefits to drivers who work bank holidays (extra day added to holiday allowance and higher pay for that day - unsure if these benefits also apply to Sundays), presumably GNE are the same.

I would presume its another failure by the management team.


but remember Better Than Ever

(28 Aug 2022, 1:29 pm)Rob44 wrote so one on here always mentions that sundays should jist be like any other day.... well for me bank holiday mondays should be too.  Can remember the last bank holiday i go off

Tbh, I didn't even know it was a bank holiday tomorrow until someone mentioned it in Lidl before!

I only know one person who gets bank holidays off, but she's an accountant so they use any excuse to have a day off!

(28 Aug 2022, 12:11 pm)N1cholas wrote The year 2022 and people still dont know that sunday service operates every bank holiday no matter if it is a monday or friday it will never change

Yup, the year is 2022 and bank holidays are becoming even more irrelevant.

The majority of services and places are no longer affected as much as they used to be, meaning that people actually need reminding that a bank holiday is coming up so they can plan their day around services that are stuck in the previous century.

But if we did not have Bank Holidays then I would not be able to visit Seaburn tomorrow and watch a load of socially inept people wandering around with oversized cameras.

I'm excited already.

Charles

(28 Aug 2022, 1:23 pm)streetdeckfan wrote For most people (or at least everybody that I know) Sundays and Bank Holidays are just normal days now, so why are operators still treating them as if they're special?

They can say it's because there aren't enough passengers, but why is that?

On a Sunday, I lose my direct half hourly services to Newcastle and Darlington, and go from 6 buses an hour to Durham, to one. It's literally not worth the risk to try and travel by bus on a Sunday!

Not sure that is the case for the majority of the population.  Many, many workplaces still close on bank holidays.  As do a lot of the places people may need to attend e.g. non-urgent health services.  Apart from blue light services etc, retail is probably the main area that is open and even then in the main does so for much reduced hours (meaning among other things fewer staff journeys as less shifts to cover).  I suspect for a lot of people their travel needs are different with more focus on leisure trips rather than 'having to be' somewhere whether that is a workplace, meetings or an appointment.

(28 Aug 2022, 3:12 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Not sure that is the case for the majority of the population.  Many, many workplaces still close on bank holidays.  As do a lot of the places people may need to attend e.g. non-urgent health services.  Apart from blue light services etc, retail is probably the main area that is open and even then in the main does so for much reduced hours (meaning among other things fewer staff journeys as less shifts to cover).  I suspect for a lot of people their travel needs are different with more focus on leisure trips rather than 'having to be' somewhere whether that is a workplace, meetings or an appointment.

Then there's an even greater need to have a proper service.

If people are tempted to use the bus for leisure, then they might choose to switch for commuting as well. But if they look, see they have an hourly service (if they're lucky), then they're not even going to consider using the bus at all

If a company has an enhanced service but they can't get enough volunteers (most drivers will want a day off too, no matter how much dosh you throw at them), then what? Are we comfortable forcing some drivers to work when they don't want to?