(30 Jul 2024, 8:38 pm)Adrian wrote It still has functions as the transport authority for the 5x Tyne and Wear Councils, reporting to NECA, but I think it's looking increasingly likely that it'll be absorbed into NECA. Similar to what South and (I think?) West Yorkshire have done. The lines are becoming increasingly blurred between the two organisations now.

I think a lot of the staff are working directly for NECA at the moment, aside from Metro-related staff remaining with Nexus?

Yeah agreed, mind I haven't heard of anything about Durham and Northumberland joining anytime soon, don't believe it's been discussed at all yet?

Honestly not too sure on who's working for who if I had to be honest though, it's very blurred like you said. 

Mind I do think the Metro should stay independent with it's own management and not be ran by NECA directly. It's always been a bit of a conflict of interest having Nexus running the light rail system while supposedly supporting the bus operators who are arguably their competition when they need to make fare revenue. Obviously won't be an issue in the future with franchising, or whatever they choose, but that's years away.

No one could run the Metro run efficently with its current stock.

(30 Jul 2024, 9:35 pm)Storx wrote Yeah agreed, mind I haven't heard of anything about Durham and Northumberland joining anytime soon, don't believe it's been discussed at all yet?

Honestly not too sure on who's working for who if I had to be honest though, it's very blurred like you said. 

Mind I do think the Metro should stay independent with it's own management and not be ran by NECA directly. It's always been a bit of a conflict of interest having Nexus running the light rail system while supposedly supporting the bus operators who are arguably their competition when they need to make fare revenue. Obviously won't be an issue in the future with franchising, or whatever they choose, but that's years away.

Pretty sure this has been mentioned recently, but operational transport functions were delegated to Durham County Council and Northumberland County Council at June's cabinet meeting. This replicates the arrangement that was in place previously, though NECA remains the Transport Authority (taking over from the JTC)

I don't see how it's a conflict of interest. We need an integrated transport model, and it's what the Metro was designed to be part of. It's 40 years of bus deregulation that has put that to bed, as why would operators help the Metro out, when they could have a bigger slice of the pie for themselves. 

The fact that different forms of public transport (or even different operators), see each other as competition, is the problem.

(31 Jul 2024, 9:43 am)Adrian wrote Pretty sure this has been mentioned recently, but operational transport functions were delegated to Durham County Council and Northumberland County Council at June's cabinet meeting. This replicates the arrangement that was in place previously, though NECA remains the Transport Authority (taking over from the JTC)

I don't see how it's a conflict of interest. We need an integrated transport model, and it's what the Metro was designed to be part of. It's 40 years of bus deregulation that has put that to bed, as why would operators help the Metro out, when they could have a bigger slice of the pie for themselves. 

The fact that different forms of public transport (or even different operators), see each other as competition, is the problem.

Yeah it was, don't believe anything has been planned beyond it yet, unless I've missed it?

Agreed with the integration though but I just think the operation of the Metro should be independent from the planners. Not to mention it means that the Metro can have some accountability if things go wrong, with the option on the table to do a management agreement with a private company if things go to pot (not suggesting that though).

You'll also have the massive benefit that they won't be affected by political changes who want to change things for the sake of changing things, obviously Nexus wasn't affected by that too much, but NECA definitely is as if Gannon or McGuiness lose their places then everything could change overnight.

It means that the planners and Metro are independent from each other, obviously under the current system it's better for Nexus to make extra money via the Metro rather than a bus paying it to shareholders. It's totally wrong, but it's reality really. If they were independent then let them compete with the franchisees, a bit of competition is never a bad thing for improving service. I don't think anyone has an issue with the competition element of local buses, it's more where the money is going and the bits they choose not to do which franchising should fix.

Transport Secretary sets the wheels in motion on "biggest overhaul to buses in a generation"
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/trans...generation

There's also a consultation that has been launched on draft new guidance: https://www.gov.uk/government/consultati...g-guidance

The key takes from me seem to be:

• Bus franchising opened up to all local transport authorities - previously this was Mayoral authorities only.
  
• LTAs that aren't Mayoral authorities still need to seek Secretary of State approval to proceed.
  
• Simplified guidance will be delivered to allow a speeding up of the process of franchising, along with the cost of developing the scheme.
  
• Any authority that has already published a notice of intent on or after 4 July 2024, would fall under the new guidance. This includes North East Mayoral Region, where the notice of intent is dated 8 August 2024.
  

Following the Statutory Instrument to deliver the above, they've also spoken about the Buses Bill that'll soon be presented to Parliament. This was part of the King's speech. It was mentioned that this will include:

• A reform of funding, including for those councils who don't want franchising.
  
• the Ban on municipal operators to be lifted.
  
• Further changes to make bus franchising even quicker and easier to deliver.
  
• Something on accessible travel.
  

Hopefully this will help speed up the process massively, as the worry is there'll be nothing left, the way some networks are being ran into the ground.

I'm not against franchises and public ownership. However, I'd welcome proper scrutiny of any proposed alternative schemes, rather than see the process rushed for what appears to be ideological reasons.

Just because the current situation is poor doesn't automatically mean those proposing the medicine are any better.

(09 Sep 2024, 6:02 pm)DeltaMan wrote I'm not against franchises and public ownership. However, I'd welcome proper scrutiny of any proposed alternative schemes, rather than see the process rushed for what appears to be ideological reasons.

Just because the current situation is poor doesn't automatically mean those proposing the medicine are any better.

In fairness, it's worth noting that deregulation in the first place was for ideological reasons, not because there was any supportive evidence that it'd deliver improvements.

NECA have commissioned a Delivery Model Feasibility Study, which was included (pg.279 onwards) in the report to Cabinet back in July. See: https://www.northeast-ca.gov.uk/download...-07-24.pdf

Only a short paper to yesterday's North East CA Cabinet yesterday on Bus Reform, but they were asked to agree delegated authority to the Chief Executive to "commence procurement arrangements and approve contract awards for specialist support associated with the region’s Bus Franchising Scheme Assessment (FSA)".

In the paper, they state that the Bus Reform project is in a "mobilisation phase, which critically includes procurement of specialist support to support the development of the FSA". The current authority level is £500k, and the report suggests that this covers the event that they need to enlist support over the value, not that it's an absolute.

Reading the paper, the reasoning behind the request is that "specialist support is required to complete some elements, including economic and demand
modelling, which the CA does not have the skills or capacity to undertake internally". This sounds like a sensible approach, as I think there's a risk of tunnel vision by trying to deliver this modelling internally.

(09 Sep 2024, 6:02 pm)DeltaMan wrote I'm not against franchises and public ownership. However, I'd welcome proper scrutiny of any proposed alternative schemes, rather than see the process rushed for what appears to be ideological reasons.

Just because the current situation is poor doesn't automatically mean those proposing the medicine are any better.

It is because of ideology that Public Transport is in a mess. Pick up one of the many pre 1986 TW timetables from EBay to see what was destroyed by a mad woman.

(27 Nov 2024, 8:53 pm)Economic505 wrote It is because of ideology that Public Transport is in a mess. Pick up one of the many pre 1986 TW timetables from EBay to see what was destroyed by a mad woman.

It's hard to compare to 1986 though as cars have become much more popular and affordable since then. 

Unless the government wants to invest in public transport properly it won't make too much difference imo. That's the real problem and building the odd bus station and buying the odd electric bus is no-where near enough.

(27 Nov 2024, 8:53 pm)Economic505 wrote It is because of ideology that Public Transport is in a mess. Pick up one of the many pre 1986 TW timetables from EBay to see what was destroyed by a mad woman.

Dont forget the ideological mess caused by numerous busmen. 

Rubber their hands with glee when she had her batshit ideas.

(27 Nov 2024, 10:31 pm)Andreos1 wrote Dont forget the ideological mess caused by numerous busmen. 

Rubber their hands with glee when she had her batshit ideas.

Of course, her batshit ideas enabled some crazy unsustainably competition, which quickly died out, resulting in today’s private and inept monopoly. Quite like the water privatisation. 

As for the comment suggesting it’s hard to compare 1986 to today, I take that on board . However, London was never deregulated and works well (I compare it to Hartlepool where I live now with its very few services ). I go to London with work quite often and amazed at the coordination, the frequency of services etc even in the suburbs like Acton . This is despite there being a very regular Tube across Acton and White City. 

If there are no reforms, buses will die. Going back to Hartlepool, Uber is resulting in me using the bus less . Even before the bus fare cap, if the two of us travelled to the town centre to get to the Station , it would be £3.80. Now it’s £4.00 combined. Pretty often, I can get an uber for literally 20 p more than the combined fare but much more door to door. No need to leg it to the bus stop, urging our lass to hurry as the bus is due! 

However, I know that once Uber is dominant and seen off the buses, their prices will rise.

(28 Nov 2024, 4:54 am)Economic505 wrote Of course, her batshit ideas enabled some crazy unsustainably competition, which quickly died out, resulting in today’s private and inept monopoly. Quite like the water privatisation. 

As for the comment suggesting it’s hard to compare 1986 to today, I take that on board . However, London was never deregulated and works well (I compare it to Hartlepool where I live now with its very few services ). I go to London with work quite often and amazed at the coordination, the frequency of services etc even in the suburbs like Acton . This is despite there being a very regular Tube across Acton and White City. 

If there are no reforms, buses will die. Going back to Hartlepool, Uber is resulting in me using the bus less . Even before the bus fare cap, if the two of us travelled to the town centre to get to the Station , it would be £3.80. Now it’s £4.00 combined. Pretty often, I can get an uber for literally 20 p more than the combined fare but much more door to door. No need to leg it to the bus stop, urging our lass to hurry as the bus is due! 

However, I know that once Uber is dominant and seen off the buses, their prices will rise.

Yeah some fair points and I don't disagree but London buses make a massive loss, they're just cross subsidised by the Tube which makes a healthy profit, or did until COVID at least. 

Personally I look closer to home and have a bit of a fear of who will be in charge. 

The Metro, isn't exactly going to be winning any awards anytime soon and those people are very likely going to be the same people running the buses. 

Teesside is potentially even worse, some of the transport ideas down there are bonkers especially the airport farce and those 1/2 routes in East Cleveland. 
The thing is a complete shambles, I know some will blame lack of money, but the buses are going to be exactly the same, unless you only run the profitable bus routes but then we're at the exact same place we are right now...

(28 Nov 2024, 8:07 am)Storx wrote Yeah some fair points and I don't disagree but London buses make a massive loss, they're just cross subsidised by the Tube which makes a healthy profit, or did until COVID at least. 

Personally I look closer to home and have a bit of a fear of who will be in charge. 

The Metro, isn't exactly going to be winning any awards anytime soon and those people are very likely going to be the same people running the buses. 

Teesside is potentially even worse, some of the transport ideas down there are bonkers especially the airport farce and those 1/2 routes in East Cleveland. 
The thing is a complete shambles, I know some will blame lack of money, but the buses are going to be exactly the same, unless you only run the profitable bus routes but then we're at the exact same place we are right now...

But at the same time, they compliment the Tube as part of an integrated transport network. Running a public service isn't about making a profit.

I don't think Metro performance is a good barometer of how buses would be ran. We know that Metro performance is largely down to the age of the rolling stock, and I know Nexus would have had that replaced 10 years ago, if it were down to them. 

I don't think the Mayor has a clue, but I know there are some good people at NECA, and there'll be a lot more recruitment into buses in the future.

(28 Nov 2024, 11:59 am)Adrian wrote But at the same time, they compliment the Tube as part of an integrated transport network. Running a public service isn't about making a profit.

I don't think Metro performance is a good barometer of how buses would be ran. We know that Metro performance is largely down to the age of the rolling stock, and I know Nexus would have had that replaced 10 years ago, if it were down to them. 

I don't think the Mayor has a clue, but I know there are some good people at NECA, and there'll be a lot more recruitment into buses in the future. 

Who and where from though? 

It's like giving the job to Sam Allardyce after realising Steve Bruce isn't up for the job. 
When Sam inevitably moves on, it's going to be Alan Pardew who gets it. 

When you've got different people, with the same culture, my fear is that it will never work for Nexus. Just like it never did for any football teams unlucky enough to have those three muppets.

(28 Nov 2024, 12:34 pm)Andreos1 wrote Who and where from though? 

It's like giving the job to Sam Allardyce after realising Steve Bruce isn't up for the job. 
When Sam inevitably moves on, it's going to be Alan Pardew who gets it. 

When you've got different people, with the same culture, my fear is that it will never work for Nexus. Just like it never did for any football teams unlucky enough to have those three muppets.

The numbers required, I'd imagine, would be to the point that it'd be a completely different organisation. So I don't think it can be compared to replacing one person with another.

Of course, I'd imagine some of that recruitment will come from those who are already in the industry and the North East. You're going to need that knowledge; any organisation would, but it's a different world with different objectives. We'll be gone of the day that we do what's right for the shareholder, and hopefully return to doing what's required to deliver a good quality service for the public.

(28 Nov 2024, 11:59 am)Adrian wrote But at the same time, they compliment the Tube as part of an integrated transport network. Running a public service isn't about making a profit.

I don't think Metro performance is a good barometer of how buses would be ran. We know that Metro performance is largely down to the age of the rolling stock, and I know Nexus would have had that replaced 10 years ago, if it were down to them. 

I don't think the Mayor has a clue, but I know there are some good people at NECA, and there'll be a lot more recruitment into buses in the future.

Don't disagree with the first bit at all but the problem is where's the money going to come from. I know the mayor has some limited funds but it won't get far and this Labour government hasn't really shown they've got much more interest in spending on public transport than the last lot who were in for 14 year. 

I don't want to say it with confidence as it's just stuff i've read from ex staff members on other forums but Nexus sounds like it has a really bad culture which isn't too dissimilar to the Silver Place award winning company in the North East, god only knows how they won that...

Obviously it all depends on who they hire though, I know there's a lot of slating of the local companies but there's some good heads within them and you could build something good from them really - as long as you keep the baggage like Ben Maxfield well away.

(28 Nov 2024, 2:40 pm)Adrian wrote The numbers required, I'd imagine, would be to the point that it'd be a completely different organisation. So I don't think it can be compared to replacing one person with another.

Of course, I'd imagine some of that recruitment will come from those who are already in the industry and the North East. You're going to need that knowledge; any organisation would, but it's a different world with different objectives. We'll be gone of the day that we do what's right for the shareholder, and hopefully return to doing what's required to deliver a good quality service for the public.

You're never going to 'cleanse' any ex-corporates of an ideology or belief just because they're no longer employed by a PLC. 
It's what they've been brought up with on their management graduate degrees and all they've ever known whilst working in the corporate world.

My own thoughts would be to hire someone from a local authority from say Notts or Edinburgh, maybe further afield in Europe.
Someone with understanding of integrated, public sector transport.

(28 Nov 2024, 9:57 pm)Storx wrote Don't disagree with the first bit at all but the problem is where's the money going to come from. I know the mayor has some limited funds but it won't get far and this Labour government hasn't really shown they've got much more interest in spending on public transport than the last lot who were in for 14 year. 

I don't want to say it with confidence as it's just stuff i've read from ex staff members on other forums but Nexus sounds like it has a really bad culture which isn't too dissimilar to the Silver Place award winning company in the North East, god only knows how they won that...

Obviously it all depends on who they hire though, I know there's a lot of slating of the local companies but there's some good heads within them and you could build something good from them really - as long as you keep the baggage like Ben Maxfield well away.

We're already spending a fortune on public transport. We just seem to be less critical about it, when it's going into the coffers of private business.

Government funding is always going to be 'up in the air', so to speak, but the funding will be there to deliver this. These are powers that have been devolved to the North East, as they have in other regions, and there needs to be funding to deliver those functions.

(28 Nov 2024, 10:38 pm)Andreos1 wrote You're never going to 'cleanse' any ex-corporates of an ideology or belief just because they're no longer employed by a PLC. 
It's what they've been brought up with on their management graduate degrees and all they've ever known whilst working in the corporate world.

My own thoughts would be to hire someone from a local authority from say Notts or Edinburgh, maybe further afield in Europe.
Someone with understanding of integrated, public sector transport.

In senior leadership roles, I'd completely agree. I think it needs a fresh set of eyes.

As much as people like to pat themselves on the back up here, we haven't seen success relating to public transport for a hell of a long time.