(28 Oct 2018, 9:06 pm)James101 wrote I understood. I wasn't picking examples at random, I lived in Dukinfield for a little bit so had an insight into the area's network. I thought the 168 was a good example of an A-B-C-D route as I don't believe anybody would spend 90 minutes going from Ashton to Chorlton, particularly given this obscure link could easily be made more quickly going via the city centre. 

I had a quick look through the current timetables for the areas I used to live in in GM. Generally most routes had a first service around 07:00 at weekends, much earlier during the week. I'm open to correction, but haven't the Ashton and Stockport locals historically been operated by smaller & single deck buses? Currently E200s; previously B10Ms, Solos, Darts, Nationals and even Mercedes 709Ds all the way back to GM Buses? Regarding fares, I'd point out a Stoke-on-Trent multi operator weekly bus ticket comes in at £19.50 (covering a relatively tiny area), the equivalent in West Yorkshire is £23 and in the West Midlands £31.50(!!). A TFGM bus only system one is just £18. TFGM also provides free town centre circulars in Stockport & Bolton, as well a the revamped 'Free Bus' in the city centre - which I think has been marketed bang on the money as it happens. This is all alongside the Metrolink expansions, which though clearly have impacted corresponding bus corridors, overall wherever Metrolink had been introduced there are now more public transport seats per hour. 

My point is here, though I feel we've moved away from ENCTS, is that PTE areas are generally fairing much better than non PTE area - and I would add that GM is doing particularly fine. Yes, there have been cuts, but only the most minor when compared to similar areas in terms of car ownership and incomes. Relating this back to the Bus Services Bill, I believe this point illustrates the importance of only introducing re-regulation/QCS under the supervision of at PTE - as asking an individual Tory* council to look after your bus services is rather like asking Bernard Mathews to look look after your turkey.  

* - I use Tory as an example as they hold control in Stoke, where I currently live. I've previously lived in Hartlepool, forever controlled by Labour, who were proved even more incompetent as being among the first two councils to remove 100% of bus support way back in 2010. I think the individual leaders of the councils is more relevant than their party alliance when it comes to such matters.

I'm surprised at West Midlands charging so much, given that TWM is the dominant operator and I recently researched a possible trip incorporation Wolverhampton, Walsall, West Brom and into B'ham, suggesting a Day ticket would only be about £4.50. metrolink is (at least) a double-edged sword. Being pedantic I would disagree with it meaning more public transport seats per hour, as trams have awful bum perches, not seats. Also, walking time/distance to tram stops is considerably longer than to bus stops and then there is the cost to the tax-payer (Metrolink debt repayments are TFGM's biggest current expenditure). Returning to fares, the main problem is that Day/week tickets in GM are effectively a flat fare. You pay £4.50 if you travel 20, 30 or 40 miles on Stagecoach services, but you still pay £4.50 if you just need to travel 1.5 miles down the road to the Supermarket, Health Centre or minimum wage part-time job. Further, and this is the real proof of the failure of the "free" (haha) market, is that if you live in a low income, low profile suburb or "overspill" estate, you pay £4.50 for these 3 mile round trips, but if you live in a politically correct, middle income area with planned investment (public and private) you pay £3 for a round trip of up to 12 miles into the city centre - and services have been reduced in the low income areas to resource "bus wars" in the trendy areas, which also means your £4.50 may or may not include a seat (probably not in the evening peak), but the £3 in the latter case buys you half a deck to choose from.

The revamped "Free bus" is effectively a disguised cut in service, with reduced links for those arriving on the periphery of the city by bus. Don't forget rail users get free Metrolink travel anyway. The Stockport MetroShuttle is reasonably successful, but would be more of an "integrated" service if it ran in reverse ie. a quick journey up the hill for rail connections, but I think the road layout in Stockport mitigates against this. The Bolton MetroShuttle is less successful, and I think moving the bus station out of the town centre could eventually be its downfall, as the Indoor Market is on its last legs.

Ashton & Stockport locals have been single deckers for most of the time since 1986 (and before in the case of Stockport). However, before de-reg, most services in Tameside were 'deckers, and had to be at peak times! Bus use in Ashton itself has declined sharply since the depot was closed in 1991, though the real money spinners (330, 347 & 409) still stumble on. The rot in Stockport is much more recent, led by service cuts and amalgamations. Reddish Road especially has been virtually halved since 2008 (and more especially 2015).