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Politics (and other political stuff)
24 May 2024, 9:40 am,
Post: #1336
RE: Politics (and other political stuff)
(23 May 2024, 10:38 pm)mb134 wrote It's quite simply not true to say that the only thing that separates them is colour. The "Country First, Party Second" messaging that Labour have been putting out is an immediate difference, the Conservatives have pretty much been putting party first since 2016/7. 

The only people who think this Labour party are the same as the Conservatives are either people on the far right who want to justify their vote for Reform UK, or people on the far left who are still sad Corbyn failed to win (twice). 

Labour, at least going into this election, can't be too bold in my view. If they go too far left of centre (or if their messaging comes across that way) then they potentially lose the votes of the people in the centre who get them the majority. You can be as left wing as you want in a manifesto but it means sod all if it scares the public/makes you an easy target for the Daily Mail, and we saw the result of that in 2019. You only get to change things if you actually win.

They're not winning votes, though. If you look at all the Parliamentary by-election results recently, they're not winning seats because they're increasing the number of people voting Labour. They're winning them because Tory voters aren't turning out. So for all intents and purposes, their lunge to the right has been futile so far. 

I'd say that's largely down to the leader, who is a wind-sock, and it's why his messaging of "Country first, Party second" doesn't work. It's well-publicised that he's broken every promise he's made. So much so that he doesn't call them promises anymore. He continues to put wet-wipe ministers on the media rounds, who get caught out every time they're questioned on a particular policy, and then immediately resort to the hyperbole about Labour being 'a changed party'

I also don't think it's fair to suggest that it's only the far-right or far-left who see the Conservatives and Labour as broadly comparable. That's not the message we received on the doorstep during the May campaigning. A lot of swing-voters would sooner not bother, than take a chance on what Starmer has to offer. One common criticism was that people felt he was untrustworthy. 

It's not even during campaigning that you hear this. I work with several different workplaces, and whenever I speak to people, it's clear that a lot of people in this country are genuinely fed up and feel left behind after 14 years of Tory Government. They should be looking towards a Labour Party for hope and change, but Starmer refuses to commit to any of that. 

Not even something as simple to fix as removing the two-child benefit cap, which would pull an estimated 250,000 children out of poverty overnight. Or the 'New Deal for Workers', most of which wouldn't cost a penny, but would massively benefit workers. Is that putting the Country first?

Will I be delighted to see the back of the Tories? Absolutely! But I've no enthusiasm about the thought of a Starmer Labour Government either. Maybe five years will convince me, maybe it won't.
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Messages In This Thread
Politics (and other political stuff) - by MrFozz - 30 Jan 2015, 12:48 pm
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - by Tom - 09 Mar 2015, 7:06 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by MrFozz - 18 Mar 2015, 12:30 am
Politics (and other political stuff) - by LeeCalder - 19 Mar 2015, 10:11 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by LeeCalder - 19 Mar 2015, 10:23 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by LeeCalder - 19 Mar 2015, 10:29 pm
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - by mb134 - 29 Mar 2015, 11:27 am
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - by mb134 - 29 Mar 2015, 12:59 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by Adrian - 02 Apr 2015, 9:33 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by R852 PRG - 02 Apr 2015, 10:25 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by MrFozz - 02 Apr 2015, 10:33 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by MrFozz - 16 Apr 2015, 8:36 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by MrFozz - 16 Apr 2015, 10:33 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by MrFozz - 18 Apr 2015, 10:21 am
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - by Jimmi - 18 Apr 2015, 10:37 am
Politics (and other political stuff) - by Jimmi - 18 Apr 2015, 11:32 am
Politics (and other political stuff) - by MrFozz - 18 Apr 2015, 5:22 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by MrFozz - 21 Apr 2015, 8:22 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by LeeCalder - 27 Apr 2015, 10:09 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by LeeCalder - 27 Apr 2015, 10:17 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by LeeCalder - 27 Apr 2015, 10:19 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by MrFozz - 29 Apr 2015, 3:00 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by MrFozz - 01 May 2015, 6:39 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by MrFozz - 01 May 2015, 8:05 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by MrFozz - 01 May 2015, 8:25 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by MrFozz - 05 May 2015, 10:22 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by Jimmi - 05 May 2015, 10:51 pm
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - by Jimmi - 05 May 2015, 11:16 pm
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - by Dan - 07 May 2015, 6:55 am
Politics (and other political stuff) - by MrFozz - 07 May 2015, 8:49 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by MrFozz - 07 May 2015, 9:14 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by MrFozz - 07 May 2015, 10:03 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by LeeCalder - 08 May 2015, 10:23 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by LeeCalder - 08 May 2015, 10:27 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by LeeCalder - 08 May 2015, 10:34 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by LeeCalder - 08 May 2015, 10:41 pm
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - by idiot - 09 May 2015, 12:02 am
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - by idiot - 09 May 2015, 12:07 am
Politics (and other political stuff) - by MrFozz - 11 May 2015, 6:19 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by MrFozz - 02 Jun 2015, 8:28 am
Politics (and other political stuff) - by MrFozz - 15 Sep 2015, 12:15 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by MrFozz - 03 Dec 2015, 10:00 am
Politics (and other political stuff) - by Adrian - 24 Feb 2016, 11:52 am
Politics (and other political stuff) - by Adrian - 08 Mar 2016, 8:27 am
Politics (and other political stuff) - by Adrian - 24 Mar 2016, 5:23 pm
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - by Chris - 05 May 2016, 11:13 am
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - by Chris - 17 May 2016, 12:17 pm
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - by Tom - 23 Jun 2016, 5:03 pm
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - by Tom - 23 Jun 2016, 8:45 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by Jimmi - 23 Jun 2016, 9:16 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by MrFozz - 24 Jun 2016, 6:57 am
Politics (and other political stuff) - by cbma06 - 24 Jun 2016, 8:30 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by cbma06 - 24 Jun 2016, 10:29 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by MrFozz - 05 Nov 2016, 9:30 am
Politics (and other political stuff) - by MrFozz - 14 Dec 2016, 5:52 pm
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - by Chris - 28 Apr 2017, 11:53 am
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - by Chris - 31 May 2017, 12:05 pm
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - by Chris - 01 Jun 2017, 11:37 am
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - by mb134 - 28 Apr 2018, 12:35 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by MrFozz - 29 Apr 2018, 9:57 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by cbma06 - 20 Feb 2019, 2:48 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by cbma06 - 30 Apr 2020, 7:23 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by Adrian - 31 May 2020, 4:26 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by cbma06 - 31 May 2020, 5:18 pm
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - by Storx - 19 Sep 2020, 12:55 pm
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - by Rob44 - 07 May 2021, 12:03 pm
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - by mb134 - 08 May 2021, 12:12 am
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - by Rob44 - 10 May 2021, 12:17 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by cbma06 - 07 Jul 2022, 9:00 am
Politics (and other political stuff) - by cbma06 - 15 Oct 2022, 2:34 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by cbma06 - 20 Oct 2022, 2:21 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by cbma06 - 20 Oct 2022, 4:33 pm
Politics (and other political stuff) - by cbma06 - 20 Oct 2022, 6:16 pm
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - by Shrek - 22 May 2024, 10:46 pm
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - by mb134 - 23 May 2024, 10:38 pm
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - by Adrian - 24 May 2024, 9:40 am
RE: Politics (and other political stuff) - by Storx - 24 May 2024, 10:26 pm
Political Discussion - by MrFozz - 20 Sep 2014, 8:43 am
RE: Political Discussion - by S813 FVK - 20 Sep 2014, 11:15 am
RE: Political Discussion - by Andreos1 - 20 Sep 2014, 11:30 am
Re: RE: Political Discussion - by Adrian - 20 Sep 2014, 12:30 pm
Re: RE: Political Discussion - by Adrian - 20 Sep 2014, 12:33 pm
RE: Political Discussion - by MrFozz - 20 Sep 2014, 12:38 pm
RE: Political Discussion - by MurdnunoC - 20 Sep 2014, 3:15 pm
RE: Political Discussion - by S813 FVK - 20 Sep 2014, 4:48 pm
RE: Pricing - by Adrian - 11 Apr 2018, 10:27 pm
RE: Pricing - by idiot - 12 Apr 2018, 9:42 am
RE: Pricing - by Adrian - 12 Apr 2018, 7:00 pm
RE: Pricing - by Jamie M - 12 Apr 2018, 7:17 pm
RE: Pricing - by Adrian - 12 Apr 2018, 7:23 pm
RE: Pricing - by Jamie M - 12 Apr 2018, 7:28 pm
RE: Pricing - by idiot - 12 Apr 2018, 7:46 pm
RE: Pricing - by Andreos1 - 13 Apr 2018, 10:19 am
RE: Pricing - by Chris 1 - 13 Apr 2018, 11:20 am
RE: Pricing - by Jamie M - 13 Apr 2018, 11:22 am
RE: Pricing - by Andreos1 - 14 Apr 2018, 9:37 am
RE: Pricing - by Adrian - 14 Apr 2018, 11:52 am