I’m not sure what to make of that update to a point,

A growing in popularity railway service impacting the X84/5….growing In popularity since erm…1834?

There’s an elephant in the room aspect to this. The govt will not and can’t afford to fund buses, the pandemic has made buses even less popular than before which is an achievement and all that money spent on Ray Stenning PowerPoint templates was a nice try but erm…yeah nobody likes buses. It shows all the money wasted on paint jobs as the union call them and fanfare of printed timetables (popular with old people, roger french and bus enthusiasts only) mean absolutely nothing

I hate to sound like our dear Andreos…well I don’t…but at what point do you realise the problem is you

More to come here I think. Further cuts, more money to DRT schemes and those impacted don’t and won’t vote tory. I’d be rts worried if I relied on public transport in a less desirable connected area or worked at go ahead but I’d be thrilled to be a middle manager or a shareholder…or ray stenning, rebrands ahoy!

To end a positive…of sorts. It’s a real shame Martijn joined GNE at a time of crisis and you wonder what he could have done with the resources that Huntley and Carr had, both massive massive failures.

(23 Dec 2021, 10:50 pm)Ambassador wrote I’m not sure what to make of that update to a point,

A growing in popularity railway service impacting the X84/5….growing In popularity since erm…1834?

There’s an elephant in the room aspect to this. The govt will not and can’t afford to fund buses, the pandemic has made buses even less popular than before which is an achievement and all that money spent on Ray Stenning PowerPoint templates was a nice try but erm…yeah nobody likes buses. It shows all the money wasted on paint jobs as the union call them and fanfare of printed timetables (popular with old people, roger french and bus enthusiasts only)  mean absolutely nothing

I hate to sound like our dear Andreos…well I don’t…but at what point do you realise the problem is you

More to come here I think. Further cuts, more money to DRT schemes and those impacted don’t and won’t vote tory. I’d be rts worried if I relied on public transport in a less desirable connected area or worked at go ahead but I’d be thrilled to be a middle manager or a shareholder…or ray stenning, rebrands ahoy!

To end a positive…of sorts. It’s a real shame Martijn joined GNE at a time of crisis and you wonder what he could have done with the resources that Huntley and Carr had, both massive massive failures.

But, prior to the pandemic, didn't that exact approach increase passenger numbers for the first time in years?

(23 Dec 2021, 10:55 pm)streetdeckfan wrote But, prior to the pandemic, didn't that exact approach increase passenger numbers for the first time in years?

It allegedly did, nobody has shared figures Tyne and Wear metro journeys were decreasing for example. 

Hence my end saddened note, I look at Huntley and Carr and all that money and resource and despair. You’d have to imagine MG would have worked wonders. The region needs an MG at the forefront of policy, an actual expert. Not Martin gannon or nick Forbes…If I’m the LA7 group, I’d be on the phone tomorrow asking how much and when can he start

(23 Dec 2021, 7:34 pm)Keeiajs wrote Xlines brand is dropping like flies -

Any guesses of what is next, mine is firmly with the X5/X15

Not if the EV bid is successful

(23 Dec 2021, 7:49 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I wonder if the X21 extension to West Auckland, and the 21 extension to Brandon will stick around. They seem like easy targets.
Honestly, if they cut the X21 back to Bishop, that's me done

Might not get cut, but you might have to put up with smart seats depending on the service changes and PVRs. If the X30's / X70's remain unchanged, you should be safe. But if they do change, GNE aren't going to have 4x E400MMC sitting around Consett as spares when in theory, 6336/37 being available to only cover a PVR of 5x low height deckers would be more than ample. Not forgetting the X21 is technically using 2x intended spares to cover the increased PVR at the moment.

(24 Dec 2021, 6:34 am)L469 YVK wrote Might not get cut, but you might have to put up with smart seats depending on the service changes and PVRs. If the X30's / X70's remain unchanged, you should be safe. But if they do change, GNE aren't going to have 4x E400MMC sitting around Consett as spares when in theory, 6336/37 being available to only cover a PVR of 5x low height deckers would be more than ample. Not forgetting the X21 is technically using 2x intended spares to cover the increased PVR at the moment.

+ The two 67' Plates which are now free up, could paint them into X21's. Then keep 6335/6377

Keep 6376 a Washington with 6334.

(24 Dec 2021, 7:27 am)Keeiajs wrote + The two 67' Plates which are now free up, could paint them into X21's. Then keep 6335/6377

Keep 6376 a Washington with 6334.

The 67 plates as in StreetDecks?

What would be the point of that if a change to the X30's / X70's meant that a low height decker was not needed on the X70's?

In a nutshell out of the 14x 2019/20 E400MMCs available (not including 6352-55), it would be a case of swapping 9x B5TLs with 9x E400MMC between CLS & Consett.

Then for spares, Consett would have 6334-35 and 6336-37 (the latter are low height should they be needed on the X30/X31). Then whatever StreetDecks are available at CLS could then used as a spare for the X21 as it doesn't need a low height decker.

(23 Dec 2021, 10:50 pm)Ambassador wrote I’m not sure what to make of that update to a point,

A growing in popularity railway service impacting the X84/5….growing In popularity since erm…1834?

There’s an elephant in the room aspect to this. The govt will not and can’t afford to fund buses, the pandemic has made buses even less popular than before which is an achievement and all that money spent on Ray Stenning PowerPoint templates was a nice try but erm…yeah nobody likes buses. It shows all the money wasted on paint jobs as the union call them and fanfare of printed timetables (popular with old people, roger french and bus enthusiasts only)  mean absolutely nothing

I hate to sound like our dear Andreos …well I don’t…but at what point do you realise the problem is you

More to come here I think. Further cuts, more money to DRT schemes and those impacted don’t and won’t vote tory. I’d be rts worried if I relied on public transport in a less desirable connected area or worked at go ahead but I’d be thrilled to be a middle manager or a shareholder…or ray stenning, rebrands ahoy!

To end a positive…of sorts. It’s a real shame Martijn joined GNE at a time of crisis and you wonder what he could have done with the resources that Huntley and Carr had, both massive massive failures.

Welcome aboard the luxury coach, heading to cynicism via realism town centre and suggestion interchange

Having seen the internal briefing for the changes at the end of January, changes are nowhere as drastic as the last round of service changes.

However there are evening service reductions from 4th January (to last until 30th January according to the notice). Timetables are online apparently (although I haven't looked). Two things stand out for me, Nexus contract 33 (reduced to hourly) and the X22 (suspended temporarily).

(24 Dec 2021, 9:58 am)morritt89 wrote Having seen the internal briefing for the changes at the end of January, changes are nowhere as drastic as the last round of service changes.

However there are evening service reductions from 4th January (to last until 30th January according to the notice). Timetables are online apparently (although I haven't looked). Two things stand out for me, Nexus contract 33 (reduced to hourly) and the X22 (suspended temporarily).

Any idea of other changes without giving too much away?

Some journeys on the 8, 21, 25 pulled from CLS

Looking at the Bus Service Improvement Plan, three of the KPIs of the plan are as follows:

• Covid-19 recovery: We will repair the damage caused by Covid-19 to bus ridership in our region by returning to the pre-pandemic level of 162.4 million trips by March 2023.
  
• Grow bus patronage: Once that has been achieved we will significantly grow bus patronage, targeting 10% growth on the 2019 baseline by March 2024 and a further 10% growth on 2019 figures by March 2025. We want to make sure this growth comes from all parts of the region and so the same target will apply for boardings at rural bus stops, and for patronage among young people. 
  
• Grow bus modal share: We will increase the modal share of bus by 1 percentage point by March 2024, and by another 1 percentage point by March 2025. This target will apply both overall, and for journeys to work and  education.
  

I'm not sure how to take these services cuts in relation to the positivity span by the BSIP. The target is 178.6 million trips by March 2024 (using the 2019 baseline) and 194.8 million by March 2025. That's only just over 2 and 3 years away respectively. 

The suggestion that a growing popularity of a railway service is impacting the X84/X85, or the all but abandoned battle with the railway service on the X9/X10, feels like an acceptance of defeat. What happened to offering a better product, travel experience and so on? 

Maybe this is an early sign that operators are already abandoning the ambition of the BSIP.

The list of reductions have now been posted online:
https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/temporary-...-4-january

As I have said before so much for Bus Improvement, whilst temporary may be the claim, permanent is far more likely.

2022 the year of not travelling by bus.

(24 Dec 2021, 11:18 am)S813 FVK wrote The list of reductions have now been posted online:
https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/temporary-...-4-january

So what’s the chances of the X22 being suspended permanently?

Only certain journeys will have good loadings due to the timings and in my experience Saturday journeys tend to be just full of teenagers who won’t be lost as they can’t change to driving there instead

The 21/X21 and then X66 is a fairly easy link they’d promote as an alternative

And if this turns out to be true it’s yet more paint wasted

(24 Dec 2021, 11:31 am)Wybus wrote So what’s the chances of the X22 being suspended permanently?

Only certain journeys will have good loadings due to the timings and in my experience Saturday journeys tend to be just full of teenagers who won’t be lost as they can’t change to driving there instead

The 21/X21 and then X66 is a fairly easy link they’d promote as an alternative

And if this turns out to be true it’s yet more paint wasted

In the short term, maybe, but in the mid-long term it'll just re-enforce the position that buses aren't a convenient form of transport for them and will speed up their desire to learn to drive and get behind a wheel.

Plus the X22 generally takes around 40 minutes from Durham to the Metrocentre, whereas the X21/X66 takes almost twice the time at 76 minutes. Not exactly convenient for a 17 mile trip... an average speed of 22mph?

(24 Dec 2021, 11:18 am)S813 FVK wrote The list of reductions have now been posted online:
https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/temporary-...-4-january

That night time timetable for the 4 is a funny one. Two buses within 15mins off Heworth and then nothing for 45?

I'm confused why anything is being done to Percy Main depot

1/18/19/310/311 as I've only seen them cancelled a few journeys over the past week

To be honest, it would make sense keeping the evening Ex Newcastle 310 journeys running via Hadrian Park. Serving Hadrian Park during the evening isn't a great deal of bother given less traffic on the road. I didn't mind it in the past.

(24 Dec 2021, 12:19 pm)Train8261 wrote I'm confused why anything is being done to Percy Main depot

1/18/19/310/311 as I've only seen them cancelled a few journeys over the past week

I think there has been around 6-8 journeys and I think only around 4 were full ones, I concour with this.

Also how many of these changes will become permanent? 

Also 56 Once Per Hour from 20:15...

(24 Dec 2021, 12:25 pm)L469 YVK wrote To be honest, it would make sense keeping the evening Ex Newcastle 310 journeys running via Hadrian Park. Serving Hadrian Park during the evening isn't a great deal of bother given less traffic on the road. I didn't mind it in the past.

I still don't understand why GNE made the 311 serve Hadrian Park later anyway when the 310 was doing fine anyway. There basically going back on what they did back in 2020

---

(24 Dec 2021, 12:25 pm)Keeiajs wrote I think there has been around 6-8 journeys and I think only around 4 were full ones, I concour with this.

Also how many of these changes will become permanent? 

Also 56 Once Per Hour from 20:15...

Percy Main has been the less affected depot concerned to other depot and routes. Yet somehow needs to cut them evening services 

Also 

Why the 18 I've never seen a journey cut on that yet

---

Also why are gne concerned about the 19. When there's plans up to scrap it anyway (I know have a go if u want)

(24 Dec 2021, 12:28 pm)Train8261 wrote I still don't understand why GNE made the 311 serve Hadrian Park later anyway when the 310 was doing fine anyway. There basically going back on what they did back in 2020

---

Percy Main has been the less affected depot concerned to other depot and routes. Yet somehow needs to cut them evening services 

Also 

Why the 18 I've never seen a journey cut on that yet

---

Also why are gne concerned about the 19. When there's plans up to scrap it anyway (I know have a go if u want)

I’m guessing it’s been agreed with Nexus?

(24 Dec 2021, 12:39 pm)Thomas12 wrote I’m guessing it’s been agreed with Nexus?

It's possible but I'm still confused about why thr 18 & 19 are having a timetable reduced anyway

(24 Dec 2021, 12:40 pm)Train8261 wrote It's possible but I'm still confused about why thr 18 & 19 are having a timetable reduced anyway

Im confused why any of Percy Main have any reducing.

---

Also why was the confirmation of the X84 (Now 684) and X9 scrapped not announced with these changes were put out.

(24 Dec 2021, 12:41 pm)Keeiajs wrote Im confused why any of Percy Main have any reducing.

---

Also why was the confirmation of the X84 (Now 684) and X9 scrapped annouced?

Passengers numbers on the X85 is to low 
X84 needs to be renumbered to make it work with the 685 (don't ask me)
X9 no idea but the X10 severs that route enough since the start of the pandemic

(24 Dec 2021, 11:00 am)Adrian wrote Looking at the Bus Service Improvement Plan, three of the KPIs of the plan are as follows:

• Covid-19 recovery: We will repair the damage caused by Covid-19 to bus ridership in our region by returning to the pre-pandemic level of 162.4 million trips by March 2023.
  
• Grow bus patronage: Once that has been achieved we will significantly grow bus patronage, targeting 10% growth on the 2019 baseline by March 2024 and a further 10% growth on 2019 figures by March 2025. We want to make sure this growth comes from all parts of the region and so the same target will apply for boardings at rural bus stops, and for patronage among young people. 
  
• Grow bus modal share: We will increase the modal share of bus by 1 percentage point by March 2024, and by another 1 percentage point by March 2025. This target will apply both overall, and for journeys to work and  education.
  

I'm not sure how to take these services cuts in relation to the positivity span by the BSIP. The target is 178.6 million trips by March 2024 (using the 2019 baseline) and 194.8 million by March 2025. That's only just over 2 and 3 years away respectively. 

The suggestion that a growing popularity of a railway service is impacting the X84/X85, or the all but abandoned battle with the railway service on the X9/X10, feels like an acceptance of defeat. What happened to offering a better product, travel experience and so on? 

Maybe this is an early sign that operators are already abandoning the ambition of the BSIP.

The BSIP is only built around obtaining the £800m it has asked for.

Clearly TNE are not going to receive the full amount they want, so lots of BSIP ambition will be lost.

My understanding, as it stands, operators are at best, 70-75% recovered and leveling off. Clearly, funding only guaranteed until end of March. No surprise operators are already starting to cut their cloth to match demand and/or remove services that are marginal or loss making even before this.

(24 Dec 2021, 11:54 am)Adrian wrote In the short term, maybe, but in the mid-long term it'll just re-enforce the position that buses aren't a convenient form of transport for them and will speed up their desire to learn to drive and get behind a wheel.

Plus the X22 generally takes around 40 minutes from Durham to the Metrocentre, whereas the X21/X66 takes almost twice the time at 76 minutes. Not exactly convenient for a 17 mile trip... an average speed of 22mph?

Didn't help that in the most recent timetable change the X21 got extra running time added in so the journey time is now the same as the X12 takes from Durham, at least on the plus side the 21 & X21 now leave 15 minutes between each other although annoyingly for me now leaves 5 mins in front of the X12 towards Newcastle (annoying long wait or painfully long 21 trip for me if the 7 arrives in Durham late).

Problem with suspending the likes of the X22 is it damages any thoughts of its existence so will just be forgotten about when the service starts up again, to a degree this is what saw the downfall of Arriva's X24 which ran to the same route as the X22 does. If you have to suspend something at CLS, at least its a service mostly used for leisure purposes although some Metrocentre staff do use it.

Think this could be the case for some time, they're gonna struggle to recruit when posts on their socials are littered with comments about poor pay, bad experiences from past members of staff and frustrated passengers from buses not running.

(24 Dec 2021, 11:00 am)Adrian wrote The suggestion that a growing popularity of a railway service is impacting the X84/X85, or the all but abandoned battle with the railway service on the X9/X10, feels like an acceptance of defeat. What happened to offering a better product, travel experience and so on?

Surely that's the correct thing if everything was right. It shouldn't be bus vs train. It should public transport vs car. The fact that trains up here are so fragmented is a massive issue in comparison to say places like Leeds where you can get train and bus tickets. There is literally no ticket for someone catching a train from Hexham to Newcastle, then a bus from there to Cobalt let's say.

The problem isn't the X84/X85, it's the horrendous ticket acceptance between trains and buses. It's £173 a month for someone travelling from Huddersfield to Leeds with the ability to use any train in West Yorkshire and buses county wise. Good value imo as trains are never cheap and it's what is needed in places like Hexham. You'd be looking at £20's worth of petrol a week at least travelling back and forwards from Hexham every day with a car before parking and so on. (£92 without the train).

It's the same for the X9/X10. Surely the best answer would be a train then change to a bus on one ticket. less vehicles through the ULEZ and less traffic on the roads especially in Newcastle which is just filled with buses.

It's the same with Newcastle to Durham, yes the hill is a big problem but if we're being serious then you could easily build some escalators up from where the top of the ramp is with that improved aswell. It's literally a 5 minute walk from the bus station with that done and that would be a big push. Bus to Durham 15 mins, train to Newcastle 15 mins. 45 minute journey time vs driving for from 45 mins but that could be double with traffic.

(24 Dec 2021, 1:13 pm)Jimmi wrote Didn't help that in the most recent timetable change the X21 got extra running time added in so the journey time is now the same as the X12 takes from Durham, at least on the plus side the 21 & X21 now leave 15 minutes between each other although annoyingly for me now leaves 5 mins in front of the X12 towards Newcastle (annoying long wait or painfully long 21 trip for me if the 7 arrives in Durham late).

Problem with suspending the likes of the X22 is it damages any thoughts of its existence so will just be forgotten about when the service starts up again, to a degree this is what saw the downfall of Arriva's X24 which ran to the same route as the X22 does. If you have to suspend something at CLS, at least its a service mostly used for leisure purposes although some Metrocentre staff do use it. 

Think this could be the case for some time, they're gonna struggle to recruit when posts on their socials are littered with comments about poor pay, bad experiences from past members of staff and frustrated passengers from buses not running.

Similar to the X9 during the pandemic.

(23 Dec 2021, 10:50 pm)Ambassador wrote I’m not sure what to make of that update to a point,

A growing in popularity railway service impacting the X84/5….growing In popularity since erm…1834?

There’s an elephant in the room aspect to this. The govt will not and can’t afford to fund buses, the pandemic has made buses even less popular than before which is an achievement and all that money spent on Ray Stenning PowerPoint templates was a nice try but erm…yeah nobody likes buses. It shows all the money wasted on paint jobs as the union call them and fanfare of printed timetables (popular with old people, roger french and bus enthusiasts only)  mean absolutely nothing

I hate to sound like our dear Andreos…well I don’t…but at what point do you realise the problem is you

More to come here I think. Further cuts, more money to DRT schemes and those impacted don’t and won’t vote tory. I’d be rts worried if I relied on public transport in a less desirable connected area or worked at go ahead but I’d be thrilled to be a middle manager or a shareholder…or ray stenning, rebrands ahoy!

To end a positive…of sorts. It’s a real shame Martijn joined GNE at a time of crisis and you wonder what he could have done with the resources that Huntley and Carr had, both massive massive failures.

The rail service from Hexham to Newcastle has increased in frequency since GNE started the X85 (from 2 trains per hour to 3 trains per hour) and the rolling stock has improved from the class 142s - so the train is bound to have hit passenger numbers on the X85 (as well as X84 and 685)>

---

(23 Dec 2021, 10:50 pm)Ambassador wrote I’m not sure what to make of that update to a point,

A growing in popularity railway service impacting the X84/5….growing In popularity since erm…1834?

There’s an elephant in the room aspect to this. The govt will not and can’t afford to fund buses, the pandemic has made buses even less popular than before which is an achievement and all that money spent on Ray Stenning PowerPoint templates was a nice try but erm…yeah nobody likes buses. It shows all the money wasted on paint jobs as the union call them and fanfare of printed timetables (popular with old people, roger french and bus enthusiasts only)  mean absolutely nothing

I hate to sound like our dear Andreos…well I don’t…but at what point do you realise the problem is you

More to come here I think. Further cuts, more money to DRT schemes and those impacted don’t and won’t vote tory. I’d be rts worried if I relied on public transport in a less desirable connected area or worked at go ahead but I’d be thrilled to be a middle manager or a shareholder…or ray stenning, rebrands ahoy!

To end a positive…of sorts. It’s a real shame Martijn joined GNE at a time of crisis and you wonder what he could have done with the resources that Huntley and Carr had, both massive massive failures.

First time I've heard the late Peter Huntley called a failure !
Peter brought route branding in, vehicle refurbishment, reinvigorated printed timetables and, like MG, was high profile.

Peter H and MG have both spent a very large amount of money on fleet upgrades and vehicle presentation - but GNE continued pre pandemic to be the least profitable of the 3 large North East operators.