(02 Aug 2021, 1:59 pm)Dan wrote Don't be silly...

It's sad that there's been more discussion about a minor cosmetic issue on the map, than the actual campaign itself. I didn't think I'd see the day where Andreos1 had the most positive comments in the thread!

I agree. People should be more positive. These summer fares are fantastic. They make me forget about the mediocre things in life like Holidays, birthdays, and indeed, Christmas.

So what if there was a hiccup with the initial map. The problem has been rectified and we should all rejoice and bask in the glory of this once-in-a-lifetime offer (although as a pensioner with a concessionary pass, I am unable to take advantage).

(02 Aug 2021, 9:55 am)JP6004 wrote Well not really it does say gateshead zone. Thought it would be obvious that coming from outside this zone would be more expensive.....you know as your not in gateshead. In the same way it's a set price in zone A on the metro, however if you come from outside zone A, the price goes up 

Strangers to the area and non bus users, whom this is presumably trying to attract to use the bus rather than simply giving existing passengers a discount, likely won't know where the local authority boundaries lie.
As the fare finder disappeared some time ago, we can't compare any cross LA boundary single/return fares with the new flat fares to see if they jump up as you cross the boundary.
From the map I would think that Newcastle was included in the Gateshead zone (when travelling from Gateshead).

(02 Aug 2021, 6:36 pm)busmanT wrote Strangers to the area and non bus users, whom this is presumably trying to attract to use the bus rather than simply giving existing passengers a discount, likely won't know where the local authority boundaries lie.
As the fare finder disappeared some time ago, we can't compare any cross LA boundary single/return fares with the new flat fares to see if they jump up as you cross the boundary.
From the map I would think that Newcastle was included in the Gateshead zone (when travelling from Gateshead).

Is it really that confusing that Newcastle isn't in Gateshead though? Really? I could maybe understand people thinking a Newcastle ticket would be valid in Gateshead if they didn't know the area, but not the other way round. I've had plenty of passengers do this with different zones and I really struggle to understand they don't seem to realise this. South Tyneside passes not working in Sunderland and vice versa too, do people just not understand Geography?

(02 Aug 2021, 7:49 pm)deanmachine wrote Is it really that confusing that Newcastle isn't in Gateshead though? Really? I could maybe understand people thinking a Newcastle ticket would be valid in Gateshead if they didn't know the area, but not the other way round. I've had plenty of passengers do this with different zones and I really struggle to understand they don't seem to realise this. South Tyneside passes not working in Sunderland and vice versa too, do people just not understand Geography?

You have to take into account that not everyone understands ticketing to the degree that you (or other members of this forum) may do. Offers such as these are designed to encourage non or irregular bus users to use the bus, hence the savings/value element of the offer.

These are people who may currently use a car, and their car doesn't just stop working when they pass the 'Welcome to the City of Sunderland' sign between Whitburn and Seaburn. They shouldn't need to have to understand geography in order to use the bus. They should be able to look at clearly presented information, and then decide which ticket is correct for the journey(s) that they want to make today. When its not clear and leads to an incorrect ticket being purchased and sold, it inevitably ends up in a bad customer experience. That isn't going to encourage people to switch to the bus. 

At least the map has been updated to remove the ambiguity and its now abundantly clear that Newcastle is outside the validity of the ticket zone. Although I'd have personally referred to the purple Go Zones ticket remaining the best option for those in Gateshead wanting to travel to Newcastle, otherwise looking at the 'Summer saving fares' page alone, you'd think the only option was an All Go Zones ticket..!

(03 Aug 2021, 7:24 am)Adrian wrote You have to take into account that not everyone understands ticketing to the degree that you (or other members of this forum) may do. Offers such as these are designed to encourage non or irregular bus users to use the bus, hence the savings/value element of the offer.

These are people who may currently use a car, and their car doesn't just stop working when they pass the 'Welcome to the City of Sunderland' sign between Whitburn and Seaburn. They shouldn't need to have to understand geography in order to use the bus. They should be able to look at clearly presented information, and then decide which ticket is correct for the journey(s) that they want to make today. When its not clear and leads to an incorrect ticket being purchased and sold, it inevitably ends up in a bad customer experience. That isn't going to encourage people to switch to the bus. 

At least the map has been updated to remove the ambiguity and its now abundantly clear that Newcastle is outside the validity of the ticket zone. Although I'd have personally referred to the purple Go Zones ticket remaining the best option for those in Gateshead wanting to travel to Newcastle, otherwise looking at the 'Summer saving fares' page alone, you'd think the only option was an All Go Zones ticket..!

I think the fact that even some enthusiasts on this forum, that do understand the ticketing, were even left confused says it all!

What they really need is to bring the fare calculator back (which MG says is coming back... at some point) with the ability to show the 'best ticket'

Ideally, the journey planner would act as a fare calculator as it takes into account split journeys

I most admit i get confused about tickets sometimes.

(03 Aug 2021, 7:36 am)idiot wrote I most admit i get confused about tickets sometimes.

To be honest, 99% of the time I just buy a day ticket and be done with it, it saves all the confusion. 

Unless I'm literally just getting the bus into Bishop (where it's only £1.40 single) or travelling in GNE land after 7pm, I'll just buy a day ticket.

(03 Aug 2021, 7:29 am)streetdeckfan wrote I think the fact that even some enthusiasts on this forum, that do understand the ticketing, were even left confused says it all!

What they really need is to bring the fare calculator back (which MG says is coming back... at some point) with the ability to show the 'best ticket'

Ideally, the journey planner would act as a fare calculator as it takes into account split journeys

Fares were supposed to be in the Bus Open Data Service by 7th January this year, but I believe it was extended until 31st December due to 'COVID challenges'. See this link.

Hopefully this will see some independently developed/ran services to work out fares. I think I read somewhere that bustimes were working on displaying this data.

The thing is, to me at least it's abundantly clear that it is a Gateshead Borough ticket. It would be more of a false advertisement for it to be valid in Newcastle. I've seen plenty of people shocked or almost insulted when their ticket won't scan in the town and when the driver has checked the ticket it's a Gateshead Day Saver. Something to the effect of:

"Can't use that here"
"Why not?"
"Because this is Newcastle, not Gateshead"

As for the map, you can see from rest of the boundary mirroring the route of the river that at no point does it cross into the Tyne, nevermind over it.


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(04 Aug 2021, 9:06 am)6049 wrote The thing is, to me at least it's abundantly clear that it is a Gateshead  Borough ticket. It would be more of a false advertisement for it to be valid in Newcastle. I've seen plenty of people shocked or almost insulted when their ticket won't scan in the town and when the driver has checked the ticket it's a Gateshead Day Saver.  Something to the effect of:

"Can't use that here"
"Why not?"
"Because this is Newcastle, not Gateshead"

As for the map, you can see from rest of the boundary mirroring the route of the river that at no point does it cross into the Tyne, nevermind over it.


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Then why would they combine Newcastle and Gateshead together? They're not the same place, they're not ticketed the same. They should have been kept separate from the start

Slight OT :  it really doesn't help things that the council's bounded themselves together for tourists and brand as NewcastleGateshead. 

https://newcastlegateshead.com/

Most folk otuside the region think they are the same place, most would say Baltic, Sage and Angel are in Newcastle as opposed to Gateshead.

I doubt many people are making point to point journeys in Gateshead, I'd rather have seen a slightly higher fare option that incorporates the Tyne crossing

(04 Aug 2021, 10:37 am)Ambassador wrote Slight OT :  it really doesn't help things that the council's bounded themselves together for tourists and brand as NewcastleGateshead. 

https://newcastlegateshead.com/

Most folk otuside the region think they are the same place, most would say Baltic, Sage and Angel are in Newcastle as opposed to Gateshead.

I doubt many people are making point to point journeys in Gateshead, I'd rather have seen a slightly higher fare option that incorporates the Tyne crossing

A friend of mine lives in High Spen and works in the Metrocentre, so the new fare is actually ideal for her. In fact, since she finishes work at 6:30pm, she hovers around the Metrocentre for half an hour to take advatnage of the £1 fare, so whilst these fares are on offer her commute has dropped from £4.50 to £2.70

(04 Aug 2021, 9:25 am)streetdeckfan wrote Then why would they combine Newcastle and Gateshead together? They're not the same place, they're not ticketed the same. They should have been kept separate from the start

Because it's designed to show the routes of the services as well as the boundaries. It wouldn't be practical to display all the colours going exactly into Newcastle and all the services on the map which serve Gateshead then serve Newcastle as the two major hubs. You'd have about 20 different coloured lines crossing the Tyne between the two hub circles which wouldn't fit or would look odd.

I've said this time and again, it always seems to be the case where operators are damned if they do and damned if they don't. GNE are being proactive and trying to encourage more people to leave their cars at home, but because something isn't absolutely perfect they're being criticised.

Quite frankly, if someone buys a Gateshead Day Ticket and then finds themselves having to pay to come back across to Gateshead from Newcastle I have no sympathy. Given that the Purple Day ticket is still priced at £5.30, that still represents best value for money for anyone going to Newcastle. With the new pricing scheme, I'd guess there's only about 20/30p difference in the price to pay for a single back to Gateshead where your ticket would be valid anyway.

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(04 Aug 2021, 11:28 am)6049 wrote Because it's designed to show the routes of the services as well as the boundaries. It wouldn't be practical to display all the colours going exactly into Newcastle and all the services on the map which serve Gateshead then serve Newcastle as the two major hubs. You'd have about 20 different coloured lines crossing the Tyne between the two hub circles which wouldn't fit or would look odd.

I've said this time and again, it always seems to be the case where operators are damned if they do and damned if they don't. GNE are being proactive and trying to encourage more people to leave their cars at home, but because something isn't absolutely perfect they're being criticised.

Quite frankly, if someone buys a Gateshead Day Ticket and then finds themselves having to pay to come back across to Gateshead from Newcastle I have no sympathy. Given that the Purple Day ticket is still priced at £5.30, that still represents best value for money for anyone going to Newcastle. With the new pricing scheme, I'd guess there's only about 20/30p difference in the price to pay for a single back to Gateshead where your ticket would be valid anyway.

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All they needed to do was have the map the way they have it now.

And as I said before, that's how it was initially designed otherwise the '20' lines going across the river wouldn't have been there hidden underneath.

So, it was designed properly, then they stupidly decided to merge Newcastle and Gateshead, got called out on that design and went back to how it was to start with!

(04 Aug 2021, 11:32 am)streetdeckfan wrote All they needed to do was have the map the way they have it now.

And as I said before, that's how it was initially designed otherwise the '20' lines going across the river wouldn't have been there hidden underneath.

So, it was designed properly, then they stupidly decided to merge Newcastle and Gateshead, got called out on that design and went back to how it was to start with!

Yes, I know it's been fixed now.... Gateshead Interchange is huge according to that map - I hope GNE checked it was to scale.....

My point still stands. The furore over something so small is a bit daft. It wasn't false advertising as it's sold as a Gateshead Borough ticket, the price of crossing the river is clearly advertised. Much ado about nothing frankly.

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There's way too many zones again imo.

Sunderland Zone, Sunderland District Zone, Red Zone just stick with one and make it easier for people to understand there's no need for 3 different type of day ticket for once place and if it means splitting the Buzz Zones or whatever they're called this week into more zones and offering a one zone (£3.90), 2 zone (£5.30), all zones ticket (£7.00). It's much easier to understand, similar to the Arriva Triple Tickets in SE Northumberland which everyone understands perfectly fine .

(04 Aug 2021, 11:49 am)6049 wrote My point still stands. The furore over something so small is a bit daft. It wasn't false advertising as it's sold as a Gateshead Borough ticket, the price of crossing the river is clearly advertised.

Your point doesn't really stand though, does it?

It is advertised as a Gateshead Borough ticket, yet the ticket includes Springwell, which lies outside the Borough of Gateshead.

A small point of contention, perhaps. But if you're going to use the "Newcastle isn't the Borough of Gatehsead" argument, then you must accept that neither is Springwell and, ergo, your argument is flawed.

I do however agree it is much ado about nothing. And if GNE had of gotten it right at the start there would be no confusion, and thus no 'ado' to get worked up about.

(04 Aug 2021, 12:34 pm)MurdnunoC wrote Your point doesn't really stand though, does it?

It is advertised as a Gateshead Borough ticket, yet the ticket includes Springwell, which lies outside the Borough of Gateshead.

A small point of contention, perhaps. But if you're going to use the "Newcastle isn't the Borough of Gatehsead" argument, then you must accept that neither is Springwell and, ergo, your argument is flawed.

As has already been mentioned, Springwell is in the City of Sunderland, yet it has an NE postcode. The same applies to Washington but I would suspect more people would kick up a fuss if they were excluded from this offer in terms of travelling to Gateshead which I believe will be the more popular sevice from Springwell.

As you will also notice above, it looks as if the boundary is actually Springwell itself so you can use both zones for your full journey to either Gateshead or Sunderland - that's TBC though.

My main point is that the criticism of the map in regards to Newcastle and Gateshead is overblown and I stand by that.

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(04 Aug 2021, 9:06 am)6049 wrote The thing is, to me at least it's abundantly clear that it is a Gateshead  Borough ticket. It would be more of a false advertisement for it to be valid in Newcastle. I've seen plenty of people shocked or almost insulted when their ticket won't scan in the town and when the driver has checked the ticket it's a Gateshead Day Saver.  Something to the effect of:

"Can't use that here"
"Why not?"
"Because this is Newcastle, not Gateshead"

As for the map, you can see from rest of the boundary mirroring the route of the river that at no point does it cross into the Tyne, nevermind over it.


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I’d completely agree with you if it wasn’t for two things: 
1) A map that merged Newcastle and Gateshead into one super bubble
2) A ‘Sunderland District’ ticket that actually goes into County Durham. 

There’s something to be said though about how many zones they’re are now, whilst I appreciate cheaper bus travel. In Seaham, you now have the option of the following day tickets: 

• Seaham and Murton: £4.00
  
• Sunderland District: £4.00
  
• County Durham: £5.00
  
• Red Zone: £5.30
  
• All Zone: £7.00 
  

There’s a fear of too many options. I mean I guess the Sunderland District and County Durham are temporary options, for now.

(04 Aug 2021, 12:44 pm)Drifter60 wrote I’d completely agree with you if it wasn’t for two things: 
1) A map that merged Newcastle and Gateshead into one super bubble
2) A ‘Sunderland District’ ticket that actually goes into County Durham. 

There’s something to be said though about how many zones they’re are now, whilst I appreciate cheaper bus travel. In Seaham, you now have the option of the following day tickets: 

• Seaham and Murton: £4.00
  
• Sunderland District: £4.00
  
• County Durham: £5.00
  
• Red Zone: £5.30
  
• All Zone: £7.00 
  

There’s a fear of too many options. I mean I guess the Sunderland District and County Durham are temporary options, for now.

Think the 'Super Bubble wasn't great but still a storm in a tea cup. Agreed that the Sunderland ticket should end at the County Boundary, but we've got to remember that the aim of these fares is to encourage people back onto the buses and I think GNE have taken the decision to allow this to be included for that reason.

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(04 Aug 2021, 12:49 pm)6049 wrote Think the 'Super Bubble wasn't great but still a storm in a tea cup. Agreed that the Sunderland ticket should end at the County Boundary, but we've got to remember that the aim of these fares is to encourage people back onto the buses and I think GNE have taken the decision to allow this to be included  for that reason.

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If that is the case, then why aren't they allowing people to go a couple extra stops over the Tyne (arguably a shorter distance than the other border anomalies)?

(04 Aug 2021, 12:42 pm)6049 wrote As has already been mentioned, Springwell is in the City of Sunderland, yet it has an NE postcode. 

Using that logic you'd have include Low Westwood, Hamsterley Collery, and Hamsterley Mill as they all fall within NE17 (the first two) and NE39 (the latter).

(04 Aug 2021, 1:07 pm)MurdnunoC wrote Using that logic you'd have include Low Westwood, Hamsterley Collery, and Hamsterley Mill as they all fall within NE17 (the first two) and NE39 (the latter).

And wouldn't that mean you'd have to exclude Bishop Auckland and Spennymoor from the County Durham zone because they have a Darlington postcode?

So does Houghton-le-Spring, Hetton and Easington Lane

(04 Aug 2021, 12:42 pm)6049 wrote As has already been mentioned, Springwell is in the City of Sunderland, yet it has an NE postcode.

Post codes have nothing to do with saying what city / county a place lies in and is just simply where the sorting office is for that address.

Rowlands Gill and places over there are Newcastle when using post codes.

Gateshead Better Bus Fares now on GNE Site
https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/better-bus...-clean-and

Summer saving fares offers – now extended!
Today Fri 3rd Sep 2021

We're delighted to let you know that we're extending the offers beyond the summer, so you can continue to save across County Durham, Gateshead and the City of Sunderland.

We're also introducing new money saving fares in North Tyneside from 5 September (which includes journeys into Newcastle). Discounts across the rest of the network, including our £1 evening fare, also remain.


https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/summer-saving-fares

Is Newcastle a part of North Tyneside? Pretty sure the boundary line is just before Wallsend. Not the boundary lines count for much like. .

one side of the main road in hazlerigg is Newcastle The other is north tynside. Be intresting to see if that effects the 42asummer fares

(03 Sep 2021, 11:59 am)MurdnunoC wrote Is Newcastle a part of North Tyneside? Pretty sure the boundary line is just before Wallsend. Not the boundary lines count for much like. .

Go North East’s North Tyneside includes all of ‘North Tyneside’ as we know it plus all of Newcastle and Cramlington, Ashington and Blyth from Northumberland.