What does the driver do for the rest of the day?

Picking up on a topic which was discussed a few months ago, re 'landing' fees for buses using Interchange facilities like Eldon Square, I wonder if they are charged for parking up too?

That's what I was thinking. Unless they spend the day relieving others for breaks?

Tynedale Links MPD 555 is on the 0830 74A departure from Newcastle, presumably meaning it worked the 0725 X84 service from Hexham.
Disappointing service launch...

It's not at all a service launch for Tynedale Express today. The Sunday X84 directly replaces the 684 the two runs of which which are really only vehicle positioning and crew change runs for the 74A which would otherwise have to run LT, so even though it's not much of a service any passengers are a bonus - and you wouldn't use a Scania when an MPD will be more than enough.

It's not at all a service launch for Tynedale Express today. The Sunday X84 directly replaces the 684 the two runs of which which are really only vehicle positioning and crew change runs for the 74A which would otherwise have to run LT, so even though it's not much of a service any passengers are a bonus - and you wouldn't use a Scania when an MPD will be more than enough.

Surely it would have been better for the 684 to be withdrawn today and the X84/X85 start tomorrow?
In my eyes, it has been launched because the first X84 service has commenced. If the service had started tomorrow rather than today, the service could have been launched with the Scanias and those passengers who travelled today (albeit only 10) wouldn't have seen an MPD on the first day of the new service.

It's not at all a service launch for Tynedale Express today. The Sunday X84 directly replaces the 684 the two runs of which which are really only vehicle positioning and crew change runs for the 74A which would otherwise have to run LT, so even though it's not much of a service any passengers are a bonus - and you wouldn't use a Scania when an MPD will be more than enough.

They advertised that the service was starting on the 8th of September, and it still comes under the Tynedale Express on a Sunday. At least according to the timetable it does. That being said, surely you use the right buses on the day the service launches? Whether it's a one off or not.

They advertised that the service was starting on the 8th of September, and it still comes under the Tynedale Express on a Sunday. At least according to the timetable it does. That being said, surely you use the right buses on the day the service launches? Whether it's a one off or not.

You'll probably find it runs with MPDs every Sunday!

... and if the Sunday X84 ran with the Scanias, wouldn't people on here complain that the Tynedale Links 74A was being run with the wrongly branded vehicles?

They are positioning journeys - better than having out of servce buses running about, surely?

... and if the Sunday X84 ran with the Scanias, wouldn't people on here complain that the Tynedale Links 74A was being run with the wrongly branded vehicles?

They are positioning journeys - better than having out of servce buses running about, surely?

You're not promising Tynedale Links passengers free Wi-Fi. You are to Tynedale Express passengers, unless it's Sunday of course. Hence my original point about people using the TEN rather than this on a Sunday, when the trip is 1h+.

... and if the Sunday X84 ran with the Scanias, wouldn't people on here complain that the Tynedale Links 74A was being run with the wrongly branded vehicles?

They are positioning journeys - better than having out of servce buses running about, surely?

I think that when you live in rural Northumberland, you're more bothered about your two-hourly bus turning up, rather than what colour it is? From looking, I rarely see complaints about the 'Tynedale Links' services on the GNE Facebook page.

At the end of the day, if the X84 is ran with Scanias, the 74A will be run with the wrong vehicles. If the 74A is ran with MPDs, then the X84 will be run using the wrong vehicles.

You're not promising Tynedale Links passengers free Wi-Fi. You are to Tynedale Express passengers, unless it's Sunday of course. Hence my original point about people using the TEN rather than this on a Sunday, when the trip is 1h+.

Daily commuters are promised free Wi-Fi if they are to purchase a weekly ticket. Some may even pay for that additional "bonus" if the X84 is suitable for their journey, as opposed to the 685.
I understand that running costs (fuel consumption) may be a little higher with the Scania as opposed to the MPD, but I do think it's a little irritating that an MPD is to be the Sunday allocation.
The 74A would see an upgrade from Euro 2/Euro 3 vehicles to Euro 4 vehicles with free Wi-Fi and the X84's promise would not be broken.

Daily commuters are promised free Wi-Fi if they are to purchase a weekly ticket.

Good point Daniel, commuters are not just Monday to Friday 9 till 5 workers so quite a few commuters will have Sunday in there working week.

10 passengers on the X84 (MPD 557) pulling into Newcastle now.
Again blinded up for 74A!

There was more of us than that. Maybe fifteen. Although that was the headcount before getting to St. James so some might have got off there.

There was more of us than that. Maybe fifteen. Although that was the headcount before getting to St. James so some might have got off there.

The headcount was at St James - on the 11:25am X84 service from Hexham to Newcastle.
10 people stayed on until Eldon Sq, and 2 alighted at St James' Park.

People should stop getting their undergarments in a twist for a MPD being used on the X84 on Sundays.

Operational convinience takes priority over route branding. And it happens a lot.

Two of the morning journeys on the 11A (I think) was ran by Bendy buses, think it's now TEN deckers.

Wallsend Link MPDs run on the 17/17A Centurian services.

Centurians used to run on the 307.

Simplicitys run on the 26A.

Drifters used to be used on the 42 on Evenings and Sundays, not sure if this is still the case.

Red Arrows and Metrolinks run on the 921/922.

Angels run on the X21 on Evening and Sundays.

And more recently Orbits run on the 96A.

The company runs as it suits them, not to suit us.

I apologise if this does sound arsey, but I'm just being realistic.

There is probably lots of others.

People should stop getting their undergarments in a twist for a MPD being used on the X84 on Sundays.

Operational convinience takes priority over route branding. And it happens a lot.

Two of the morning journeys on the 11A (I think) was ran by Bendy buses, think it's now TEN deckers.

Wallsend Link MPDs run on the 17/17A Centurian services.

Centurians used to run on the 307.

Simplicitys run on the 26A.

Drifters used to be used on the 42 on Evenings and Sundays, not sure if this is still the case.

Red Arrows and Metrolinks run on the 921/922.

Angels run on the X21 on Evening and Sundays.

And more recently Orbits run on the 96A.

The company runs as it suits them, not to suit us.

I apologise if this does sound arsey, but I'm just being realistic.

There is probably lots of others.

Well I think we all understand why this happens. But the point is services which come with extras such as free wifi, is this not in breech of their claims? They claim to have free Wifi on the X84/X85 and yet every Sunday they don't if there was a problem with a vehicle on a weekday then unavoidable but a regular allocation like this is bit dodgy. Thought putting in perspective how many people actually choose a bus because of wifi? I think the percentage wouldn't be too high however I remember a friend saying to if she was waiting X9/X10 and yellow bus double decker turned up she wouldn't be too happy and this is understandable also.

I mean I also think the above examples of mis branding on evenings & Sundays is a farce. I mean at the minute with the 42/60/61, on the evenings the Drifter 60 & Simplicity 42 use the drifter Versa's whilst the drifter 61 are using the simplicity Versa's. it's just mixed up and it does confuse people, I mean again another friend also said to me you don't even know what bus your getting on as they change into other services. Waiting for the 61, a simplicity Versa pulled in and was blinded up as '2A Sunderland' and if it wasn't me knowing of the interworking people weren't going to get on. The odd mornings journeys are still far prefect but are little bit more forgivable. But regular evening & Sunday workings are just beyond a joke now. I mean we all understand why it happens but passengers don't.

Well I think we all understand why this happens. But the point is services which come with extras such as free wifi, is this not in breech of their claims? They claim to have free Wifi on the X84/X85 and yet every Sunday they don't if there was a problem with a vehicle on a weekday then unavoidable but a regular allocation like this is bit dodgy. Thought putting in perspective how many people actually choose a bus because of wifi? I think the percentage wouldn't be too high however I remember a friend saying to if she was waiting X9/X10 and yellow bus double decker turned up she wouldn't be too happy and this is understandable also.

I mean I also think the above examples of mis branding on evenings & Sundays is a farce. I mean at the minute with the 42/60/61, on the evenings the Drifter 60 & Simplicity 42 use the drifter Versa's whilst the drifter 61 are using the simplicity Versa's. it's just mixed up and it does confuse people, I mean again another friend also said to me you don't even know what bus your getting on as they change into other services. Waiting for the 61, a simplicity Versa pulled in and was blinded up as '2A Sunderland' and if it wasn't me knowing of the interworking people weren't going to get on. The odd mornings journeys are still far prefect but are little bit more forgivable. But regular evening & Sunday workings are just beyond a joke now. I mean we all understand why it happens but passengers don't.

I agree all of the deliberate mis-branding on a evening/Sunday (or indeed any day in it in the case of Deptford) makes a mockery of the whole notion of a bus being recognisable by brand. I think the X84 thing goes beyond branding though - the service is advertised with Wifi etc so it shouldn't be deliberately planned not have have it one day out of seven. GNE charge the same fare on a Sunday and a Sunday counts as a day on their tickets just the same as a weekday - why should the advertised standard not be delivered?

The way it's going at the moment, every bus will have it's own WiFi since they seem to be delivering them with Wi-Fi as standarded. Vehicles also look to be getting retrofitted with it.

Does the branded Volvo B7TLs for the Angels / Red Arrow / Ten / Tyne Tees Express have WiFi fitted?

The way it's going at the moment, every bus will have it's own WiFi since they seem to be delivering them with Wi-Fi as standarded. Vehicles also look to be getting retrofitted with it.

Does the branded Volvo B7TLs for the Angels / Red Arrow / Ten / Tyne Tees Express have WiFi fitted?

Not sure on the others but Tyne Tees 3963 does.

People should stop getting their undergarments in a twist for a MPD being used on the X84 on Sundays.

Operational convinience takes priority over route branding. And it happens a lot.

Two of the morning journeys on the 11A (I think) was ran by Bendy buses, think it's now TEN deckers.

Wallsend Link MPDs run on the 17/17A Centurian services.

Centurians used to run on the 307.

Simplicitys run on the 26A.

Drifters used to be used on the 42 on Evenings and Sundays, not sure if this is still the case.

Red Arrows and Metrolinks run on the 921/922.

Angels run on the X21 on Evening and Sundays.

And more recently Orbits run on the 96A.

The company runs as it suits them, not to suit us.

I apologise if this does sound arsey, but I'm just being realistic.

There is probably lots of others.

As has already been said - we all know that 'operational convenience' comes first, but this should not breech any claims made by a service's brand identity. The "Tynedalexpress" brand identity states that customers can use Wi-Fi for free on their X84/X85 services. Why should Sundays be any different? This debate is not largely based on branding, but promises being given and then broken by deliberate allocation of the wrong brand.
As ADLEnviro said, the X84/X85 services seem to be largely commuter based, and their working week is likely to include Sunday too. If they pay for a weekly ticket on these services, they are not getting the "bonus" of using the X84 (as opposed to the 685) that they pay for.
Granted I can't be classed as a 'normal passenger' as I'm an enthusiast and most 'normal passengers' will not do this, but if I'm wanting to travel on the TEN or Tyne Tees Xpress and a B9TL with plug sockets and Wi-Fi doesn't turn up, I don't get on it. Of course this is ultimately dependent on how lenient my timetable for the day is, and if it was the last one of the day for example, I would have to get on the B7TL, Olympian or B10BLE provided instead.
I expect those things - whatever day of the week. I imagine commuters on the X84/X85 will too. The X10 has a massive layover on Sundays which acts as the driver's lunch break. Let's say that, for convenience, the Orbits were fitted with tachometers and it was easier to interwork the X10 with the 51/52 on Sundays, and they used the Versa as opposed to the Gemini for better fuel consumption... It would be outrageous - everyone would complain! Completely irrational suggestion, but in my eyes it's the same as allocated a "Tynedale Links" MPD to the X84 on Sundays.

- The two morning "Toon Link" 11A runs are still operated by articulated Citaros - they later run onto the "X66 Metrocentre" X66 service. Two peak time runs (which are deemed as 'duplicates' or 'extras' anyway) a day as opposed to a full running of the service all day is not at all too bad. I don't like how they do it still, but it's not as bad.
- "North Tyne Links" MPDs still operate "Centurion" 17/17A on Sundays. While it does irritate me that this one happens, it's purely down to operator convenience as the timings don't work out for the two to be standalone. I've previously brought up the branding debate on this forum, and at the end of the day, they should aim to work it with a "Northern" service if anything. I don't think that is as bad.
- "Centurion" branded Renowns still see use on service 307. Again, as I said above, the service does not come under any sort of brand name. It's not half as bad, as customers can still identify their bus with ease.
- "SimpliCity" branded Versas do work the 26A, but the service is not held under a brand identity. The Versas (as has previously been discussed) have great fuel consumption because they are so lightweight (cheap ) and I believe the figures were approximately 5mpg as opposed to 6mpg. Nexus dictates a Euro 5 requirement on this service as some runs have been secured. Go North East can't control this, but they use Optare products on these secured services that require Euro 5 vehicles because it's cheaper for them.
- "Drifter" Versas are still used on the 42 during evenings. I think they now do it on Sundays, but I don't believe they previously did? The 60/61 previously interworked, not the 60/42. Deliberate mis-branding. Both are held under a brand identity - this is what I don't like. When the 60/61 interworked, 2A/2C was standalone and 42 was standalone, things were a lot better in my opinion. I can't comment on reliability of the services on Sundays as I've only used the 2A/2C regularly on Sundays, but it really is annoying. It's terribly misleading for passengers. I can cope with it happening during the week as a result of shortages and a branded Merc being VOR, but not when they plan to do it.
- The 921/922/923 are held within the Red Arrows, MetroLINK and East Durham network on GNE's website. The livery for these brands don't mention them, but the website does. Nothing wrong with this one.
- "Angel" branded B5s on the Sunday X21s isn't as bad because it's not the full route - only part of it. Still slightly irritating, but not as irritating.
- Finally, I do believe the "Orbit" Versas are all down to Nexus requirements on the 96A? If so, we can't really say anything about that one. Nevertheless, if we were to, the 96A is a Northern service - really not as bad as if it were to be branded.

There are a hell of a lot more examples that primarily occur on mornings (similar to the "Toon Link" 11A). I went out at daft o'clock a lot during the summer holidays and photographed them all as they rarely seemed to be photographed.
My main problem is when promises are given to those who travel every day of the week, regardless of the day. There are no promises in place for the 74A, but there are for the X84. Why allocate an MPD which does not have free Wi-Fi? Running costs will be slightly higher by using the Solar and no doubt neither service really requires such a high seating capacity on Sundays, but no promises would be broken. Passengers still pay the same fares on Sundays, so should get the same vehicle with all of its benefits on Sundays too.

Waiting for the 61, a simplicity Versa pulled in and was blinded up as '2A Sunderland' and if it wasn't me knowing of the interworking people weren't going to get on. The odd mornings journeys are still far prefect but are little bit more forgivable. But regular evening & Sunday workings are just beyond a joke now. I mean we all understand why it happens but passengers don't.

I've known drivers to change their blind as early as Southmoor School. I understand not many board the services after there, but it's really bad. I did e-mail about it, but never received a reply. I knew that they interworked so I still stuck my hand out for it, but it sailed straight past several people at the bus stops after Southmoor. Not sure if they were waiting for a bus or just sitting in the bus stop - but I think it's ridiculous drivers still insist on changing their blind so early when they are given layover time in Park Lane to do just that.

The way it's going at the moment, every bus will have it's own WiFi since they seem to be delivering them with Wi-Fi as standarded. Vehicles also look to be getting retrofitted with it.

Does the branded Volvo B7TLs for the Angels / Red Arrow / Ten / Tyne Tees Express have WiFi fitted?

I've personally never managed to get a Wi-Fi connection from any of the branded B7TL spares in the fleet, but it clearly must be possible on 3963 as Scott has said above.
It does seem that all new buses being delivered to the fleet are fitted with Wi-Fi as standard (and if you're lucky, plug sockets too!) I imagine this will work alongside the next stop announcements which have previously been discussed on the forum... They will be kitted out as standard with the next stop announcement voiceovers.

The way it's going at the moment, every bus will have it's own WiFi since they seem to be delivering them with Wi-Fi as standarded. Vehicles also look to be getting retrofitted with it.

Does the branded Volvo B7TLs for the Angels / Red Arrow / Ten / Tyne Tees Express have WiFi fitted?

That may be the way it's going, but it's not what is present. For a company that I'd guess at least 95% of their driving staff work a rota including Sundays and bank holidays, you'd think they understand that people do work on a Sunday. Why should someone have a different level of service depending on what day it is?

As for the branded spares, I don't believe so, but don't quote me on that.

Aren't the branded spares just that - branded spares?

To kit out a vehicle with the same spec as their full time equivelants, when they don't get the same level of use seems silly.

However as pointed out by Daniel, passengers wouldn't accept an Orbit interworking with a Tyne Tees Express, because it is convenient with the company.
Nor should they expect an MPD working a route, which has been advertised as offering wifi.

I wonder if the ASA or any other watchdog would approve of a service not offering the facilities promised - because of the deliberate decisions of GNE, based on convenience and costs?

We all accept the logisitical reasons for GNE doing so, however I am not sure a commuter (who is using the service based on advertising promises) will.

Aren't the branded spares just that - branded spares?

To kit out a vehicle with the same spec as their full time equivelants, when they don't get the same level of use seems silly.

However as pointed out by Daniel, passengers wouldn't accept an Orbit interworking with a Tyne Tees Express, because it is convenient with the company.
Nor should they expect an MPD working a route, which has been advertised as offering wifi.

I wonder if the ASA or any other watchdog would approve of a service not offering the facilities promised - because of the deliberate decisions of GNE, based on convenience and costs?

We all accept the logisitical reasons for GNE doing so, however I am not sure a commuter (who is using the service based on advertising promises) will.

I was about to mention something similar. For example, would such a "promise" fall foul of trading standards as it is not being delivered as advertised?

www.tyneandwear.sky.com/news/article/80223/police-in-sunderland-hunt-bus-sex-act-man

Vile.
Hopefully they can catch him before he takes it to the next level.

Not sure I want to be sitting in those seats or touching those grab rails either now...

Can anyone confirm why GNE (I can't comment on other operators), don't post links like this on their fb page or website?
I would guess more passengers visit those two sites than the Sky local page and may be able to assist.

I was about to mention something similar. For example, would such a "promise" fall foul of trading standards as it is not being delivered as advertised?

It's not just the legality of it, it's similar to what we've discussed in the past, with relation to the service provided on Facebook. Why as a customer should you receive a different level of service depending on which day you wish to use it?

I'm surprised someone hasn't said it yet, but I'll pre-empt and answer the question anyway. It would be a different matter if a different vehicle has to be used due to break down, but lets remember that this is an operational decision, i.e. one within management's influence.

I think 99% of bus users want the bus just to turn up. I don't think they be bothered if it came with Wi-Fi or not. I think they be more bothered if there was a couple of wasps on board though.

I think 99% of bus users want the bus just to turn up. I don't think they be bothered if it came with Wi-Fi or not. I think they be more bothered if there was a couple of wasps on board though.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree here.

I would have agreed with you on that point 10 years ago, but if that was the case, why would bus companies these days go to the expense of brand new buses with Wi-Fi, plug sockets, high back seating, leather seating in some cases, and so on. In fact I recall GNE running a survey on this for the Tyne Tees Express (results). The marketing department obviously feel that there is a demand in such features and with commuter services, otherwise they would have stuck a couple of ex-London Prestiges or something on the X9/X10.

The Red Arrows, TEN, Angel and TTX are all established fast frequent commuter services. I'd even say they're becoming victims of their own success in many ways. Despite it's 10min frequency, you tend to find the X1 always fills up at the Galleries towards Newcastle. The same could be said about the Angel coming out of Durham. I can't really comment on the other two, as I rarely use them. Prior to the Red Arrows and Angel becoming what they are now though, I would normally just use the 50 if I was heading to Durham, or I'd use the M1 and Metro if heading towards Newcastle, as I found it more convenient than having to head to the Galleries or to Chester Le Street first. Reason I do that now? More comfortable and I can catch up on emails with my iPad.

I think 99% of bus users want the bus just to turn up. I don't think they be bothered if it came with Wi-Fi or not. I think they be more bothered if there was a couple of wasps on board though.

I agree. 99% of bus users probably do just want the bus to turn up (on time) and are happy when it does. But if this is the case, why go all gimmickry with branding featuring promises of WiFi enabled buses? Once you start advertising services promising some sort of competitive advantage over other similar services, then these promises should really be kept as some may choose these services based upon what's being offered. Unless there's a valid reason due to vehicles being off the road, GNE should strive to deliver their end of the bargain. If they don't, then it's tantamount to false advertising which become legally ambiguous.

www.tyneandwear.sky.com/news/article/80223/police-in-sunderland-hunt-bus-sex-act-man

Vile.
Hopefully they can catch him before he takes it to the next level.

Not sure I want to be sitting in those seats or touching those grab rails either now...

Can anyone confirm why GNE (I can't comment on other operators), don't post links like this on their fb page or website?
I would guess more passengers visit those two sites than the Sky local page and may be able to assist.

Disgraceful and to think I probably sat in that seat he'd been sitting in today on the 2C, hope they catch him.

I don't want to go off topic but legally GNE are not doing anything wrong in terms of the law by not providing a wi-fi bus

Under the Conditions of Carriage you simply agree to pay a free for carriage on the bus. You are not guaranteed a seat nor a leather headrest, wifi, next stop announcements nor the right coloured bus. You are entitled to a vehicle that gets you from A to B and no more, no less.

I'd imagine the users of the early Sunday morning service already used the previous service to arrive into town and wouldn't expect wi-fi et al anyway, besides the point.

If every single bus was operated without wi-fi and that was a key selling point and in the terms and conditions of carriage then yes there's a point, otherwise its simple armchair law at the end of the day (no offence!)

I agree. 99% of bus users probably do just want the bus to turn up (on time) and are happy when it does. But if this is the case, why go all gimmickry with branding featuring promises of WiFi enabled buses? Once you start advertising services promising some sort of competitive advantage over other similar services, then these promises should really be kept as some may choose these services based upon what's being offered. Unless there's a valid reason due to vehicles being off the road, GNE should strive to deliver their end of the bargain. If they don't, then it's tantamount to false advertising which become legally ambiguous.

The percentage of passengers that don't care about additional features such as Wi-Fi and power sockets for mobile phones/laptops is not relevant in my opinion - it is the percentage that do care.

ASDA stock various "own brand" chocolate bars - milk chocolate, white chocolate and dark chocolate to name just three. If a bar of white chocolate is wrapped in milk chocolate packaging, the customer expects milk chocolate - not white chocolate. They are essentially promised that their product will contain milk chocolate. There are some customers that their chocolate bar has been packaged incorrectly (and they are likely to be the people that just picked the first bar up), but there are other customers that would care - they may prefer milk chocolate to white.
You could then turn this argument to also include Sainsburys' own brand chocolate bars so that it was similar to the X84/685 argument.

Surely the above applies to Go North East's "Tynedalexpress" X84 on Sundays? Passengers are promised free Wi-Fi on the X84; their timetable would suggest that they would receive just that, rather than being allocated an older, smaller vehicle which does not have high back seating or free Wi-Fi. Because there is no documentation that states what the vehicle allocation will be on Sundays, passengers should expect an orange bus to turn up with all of the features as they're promised. It costs passengers the same amount of money to travel on Sundays, so why should they not receive the benefits Monday - Saturday passengers do?

The consultation results Aureolin provided a link to proves that customers do care about having these additional features. A total of 260 completed questionnaires were returned to Go North East. 54% of those customers were in favour of the new "Tyne Tees Xpress" vehicles to have free Wi-Fi, which is 140 people - but apparently only 1% care about having these features? A further 32% were in favour of adding power sockets to the new buses. Again, a massive difference between the official number and the earlier number given (although it was likely to be under-exaggerated anyway, providing that is a word?)

Go North East certainly wouldn't plan to have the Red Arrows, Angels, TENs, TTXs off-road and have them worked by something smaller that can't deliver the features that are promised, so why should the X84 be any different?

Fleet News:

Two further vehicle transfers from last weekend are of Trident 3859: W859 PNL from Chester le Street to Percy Main and Volvo B10BLE 4905: W905 RBB from Chester le Street to Stanley.

MPD 560: NK53 TKZ has been transferred from Hexham to Consett and 561: NK53 TLF from Hexham to Deptford.

MPDs 506, 512 and 513 (X-WRG) are officially withdrawn but may remain in service temporarily.

Don't know where to put it.. since everything has changed...