Arriva North East: Latest News & Discussion - August 2017

[omnicity4659]

Surely E200 MMCs would be a more superior option than StreetLites?

[Cock Robin]

Reinstated MPDs would be a more superior option than Streetlites!

[mb134]

Surely E200 MMCs would be a more superior option than StreetLites?

Definitely. Both of these demonstrators strike me as odd - Arriva seem to be set on ADL products currently and this year's orders reflect that. 

Possible that Wright want Arriva to return to them and are providing these in order to somehow tempt them? I imagine one of the main UK operators moving their entire order to a rival would have hurt them, or definitely has the potential to do so.

Edit: Dread to think what they'll turn to in a couple of years when the Omnicitys need to be replaced. Hopefully they look at some of the B8RLEs Stagecoach are getting, with the Plaxton coach type bodywork and we avoid another X1 Streetlite nightmare.

[Jimmi]

Obviously not but there absolutely shocking, haven't they learnt that the X1 ones are always off the road, more to the point where are the pulsars going off there? Possibly MAX for X26/27/66/67/75/76


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Well Omnicities are supposedly being replaced next year, so that could well be a possibility, number of non MAX/Sapphire spec Pulsar's at Darlington at the moment is 16, so that could make 14 for X26/X27, X66/X67, X75/X76 (not lncluding a spare) but that would only leave two left for the 8/8A although the question as to what livery specification would they be in with all the new Arriva liveries and logo coming in? 

Still got the Cadets at Stockton and Volvo B10BLE's at Jesmond to replace, so there could be a possibility the Pulsar's  could head there as well (maybe?)

Could be a possibility of new buses for at least one of the: X26/X27, X66/X67, X75/X76 as well (speculation).

Wonder if Arriva would even consider more EcoCity's for Darlington?

[mb134]

Well Omnicities are supposedly being replaced next year, so that could well be a possibility, number of non MAX/Sapphire spec Pulsar's at Darlington at the moment is 16, so that could make 14 for X26/X27, X66/X67, X75/X76 (not lncluding a spare) but that would only leave two left for the 8/8A although the question as to what livery specification would they be in with all the new Arriva liveries and logo coming in? 

Still got the Cadets at Stockton and Volvo B10BLE's at Jesmond to replace, so there could be a possibility the Pulsar's  could head there as well (maybe?)

Could be a possibility of new buses for at least one of the: X26/X27, X66/X67, X75/X76 as well (speculation).

Wonder if Arriva would even consider more EcoCity's for Darlington?

If Arriva plan on replacing those with Streetlites, they better invest in a tow truck to go alongside. In no way are they built for express routes.

[Dan]

If Arriva plan on replacing those with Streetlites, they better invest in a tow truck to go alongside. In no way are they built for express routes.

Go North East's Streetlites seem to cope fairly well on long-distance and demanding routes? The 8/78 and 20/20A/X20 spring to mind as being the most demanding.

I don't profess to be completely familiar with the services at Darlington, but I can't imagine them being too dissimilar from the aforementioned Go North East services?

[mb134]

Go North East's Streetlites seem to cope fairly well on long-distance and demanding routes? The 8/78 and 20/20A/X20 spring to mind as being the most demanding.

I don't profess to be completely familiar with the services at Darlington, but I can't imagine them being too dissimilar from the aforementioned Go North East services?

Was thinking more in terms of the ones based at Ashington. I've been on a Streetlite operated X18 (418) before, and it struggled for a good amount of the route.

[Jimmi]

Go North East's Streetlites seem to cope fairly well on long-distance and demanding routes? The 8/78 and 20/20A/X20 spring to mind as being the most demanding.

I don't profess to be completely familiar with the services at Darlington, but I can't imagine them being too dissimilar from the aforementioned Go North East services?

Was thinking more in terms of the ones based at Ashington. I've been on a Streetlite operated X18 (418) before, and it struggled for a good amount of the route.

I'd say that the X26/X27 & X75/X76 are somewhat similar in terms of demands for routes although the X66/X67 are a bit more duel carriageway road blastings, the Middlesbrough - Saltburn stretch of the X3/X4 routes would probably be a better comparison and whilst the StreetLite's can sit at 50mph easily enough,  I think you would maybe have to add a little bit of extra running time to these services to ensure that they have enough running time, even the worst Omnicity's branded for the X66/X67 allocation can manage about 55mph, so I think a bus limited to 50mph may not be the best fit, EcoCity's manage 52mph, unsure about E200 MMC's but think it may me more than both of them? 

One thing I will say about both demonstrators, just because they are trialing them, doesn't necessarily mean any will actually be purchased, no Optare Versa's or Mercedes Citaro's were purchased for Arriva North East after trials at North East depots in the past.

[mb134]

I'd say that the X26/X27 & X75/X76 are somewhat similar in terms of demands for routes although the X66/X67 are a bit more duel carriageway road blastings, the Middlesbrough - Saltburn stretch of the X3/X4 routes would probably be a better comparison and whilst the StreetLite's can sit at 50mph easily enough,  I think you would maybe have to add a little bit of extra running time to these services to ensure that they have enough running time, even the worst Omnicity's branded for the X66/X67 allocation can manage about 55mph, so I think a bus limited to 50mph may not be the best fit, EcoCity's manage 52mph, unsure about E200 MMC's but think it may me more than both of them? 

One thing I will say about both demonstrators, just because they are trialing them, doesn't necessarily mean any will actually be purchased, no Optare Versa's or Mercedes Citaro's were purchased for Arriva North East after trials at North East depots in the past.

Yeah this is a good point. If you look at the routes 4653/9 are allocated onto at Ashington, the main place they can make up time is along dual carriageway stretches. If you suddenly allocate buses that can only just keep to time along those stretches, you're asking for trouble.

I definitely agree that just because they're on demonstration doesn't mean that we'll see Streetdecks and Streetlites in next year's order, but the fact they've decided to trial the Streetdeck on the Alnwick expresses is concerning.

[Jimmi]

Yeah this is a good point. If you look at the routes 4653/9 are allocated onto at Ashington, the main place they can make up time is along dual carriageway stretches. If you suddenly allocate buses that can only just keep to time along those stretches, you're asking for trouble.

I definitely agree that just because they're on demonstration doesn't mean that we'll see Streetdecks and Streetlites in next year's order, but the fact they've decided to trial the Streetdeck on the Alnwick expresses is concerning.

At least the StreetDeck is being trialled on some demanding routes rather than just being trialled 
on a town/city route and then they buy them for these demanding routes and hope they perform alright on them.

[mb134]

At least the StreetDeck is being trialled on some demanding routes rather than just being trialled 
on a town/city route and then they buy them for these demanding routes and hope they perform alright on them.

This is true. I fully anticipate that the Streetdeck will do an alright job on them in its demonstration period, however I don't think long term they would be a good buy. 

I think where we could see them, if bought, is replacing the VDLs on the Blyth express routes.

[L469 YVK]

Do you think any Northern operators such as will look at the Ensignbus BCI Enterprise? Have raved about this bus since seeing a video of it but has exactly the same engine as an E400/E400MMC (Cummins 6.7) and sounds a lot better and robust bar a few rattles. Sounds more like a combo of a Cummins / Gardiner Olympian / Volvo Engined Olympian / Volvo B9TL. The bus is also heavily based on it's tri-axile counter part (minus the 8.9 engine).

Here's the video somebody has posted on youtube, sounds and seems to perform class (credit goes to the uploader for this).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoN6A8mJUc4

And here's a write up on Route One with reports of 9mpg (similar to a Streetdeck?)
http://www.route-one.net/articles/Test_D..._in_the_UK

[South Tyne Lad]

I'd say that the X26/X27 & X75/X76 are somewhat similar in terms of demands for routes although the X66/X67 are a bit more duel carriageway road blastings, the Middlesbrough - Saltburn stretch of the X3/X4 routes would probably be a better comparison and whilst the StreetLite's can sit at 50mph easily enough,  I think you would maybe have to add a little bit of extra running time to these services to ensure that they have enough running time, even the worst Omnicity's branded for the X66/X67 allocation can manage about 55mph, so I think a bus limited to 50mph may not be the best fit, EcoCity's manage 52mph, unsure about E200 MMC's but think it may me more than both of them? 

Id disagree, Yes they probably have the same amount of flat out running but the 8/78 also benefit from slower area's along the route, Which let's the Streetlite's to take a breather while en route, While the X26/27/66/67 are mostly sat at the Speed Limiter for the whole route.
The Ecocity's are on a heavy duty chassis, And are powered by a more than capable engine underneath, Coupled to a Heavy duty Gearbox the ZF Ecolife, The Ex Demo's can sit at 65 or over easily, Baffles me why Arriva decided to limit there's to such a such a underperforming speed.
Long E200MMC's are limited to the 50ish mark, I believe due to Chassis Limitations due to them being on a lightweight chassis, Same thing that bugged the E300 when that was produced, Even though that was supposedly a " Heavy Duty Bus "

Surely E200 MMCs would be a more superior option than StreetLites?

In a way, Yes. But even they shouldn't be chucked on expresses either in my opinion. Standard spec for Arriva so far is pretty much the cheapest option, ADL's standard offering of the 4.5L, 4 Cylinder Cummins with the Dinky Voith ( The model Voith which is normally restricted to less torque 4 Cylinder's in the UK for Town Work ) Stagecoach atleast seen some sense in specifying the Heavy Duty 6.7L 6 Cylinder Cummins which could easily handle Demanding work, Which is the reason ADL offered in the first place!

A perfect Express in my opinion is the like's of the Volvo B8RLE,Scania K270UB or Mercedes O295N Citaro, All heavy duty Chassis/Engines with Bags of Power and Torque giving them perfect pulling into Fast Traffic and Sitting at 50-60mph.
McGill's have bought 2 batches of Euro6 Citaro's ( All being used on Long Distance Express's out of Glasgow down the M8 ) and they are a absolute dream, Setup for the route's perfectly, Reasonably Quiet, And will sit at around 60mph the whole way.

Unfortunately I've probably put a lot more effort into making this Essay than what Arriva will look at when ordering, 4 Cylinder E200's with dinky Voith's screaming to a North Yorkshire Village near you next year?...

[RobinHood]

Darlington are getting 13 new Streetlites for Ser 1/5/12/19 next year in Sapphire spec.

The DD recently moved from Durham will remain generic, for use il on both, primarily the busy BA college runs on Service 5.

The Pulsars will be offloaded to Stockton and Durham (replace SB120s and Streetlites - allow Sapphire for Service 23 with Pulsars and Streetlites to Newcastle).

X26 isn't even considered at this point. The Scanias are not due off until 2020 - fifteen years of life.

[Jimmi]

Darlington are getting 13 new Streetlites for See 1/5/12/19 next year.

The Pulsars will be offloaded to Stockton and Durham (replace SB120s and Streetlites - allow Sapphire for Service 23 with Pulsars and Streetlites to Newcastle).

X26 isn't even considered at this point. The Scanias are not due off until 2020 - fifteen years of life.

Is there any actual point in trialling one if it's seemingly already being decided that they are being bought for the services in question?

[Cock Robin]

Darlington are getting 13 new Streetlites for Ser 1/5/12/19 next year in Sapphire spec.

The DD recently moved from Durham will remain generic, for use il on both, primarily the busy BA college runs on Service 5.

The Pulsars will be offloaded to Stockton and Durham (replace SB120s and Streetlites - allow Sapphire for Service 23 with Pulsars and Streetlites to Newcastle).

X26 isn't even considered at this point. The Scanias are not due off until 2020 - fifteen years of life.

That makes more sense.

[BusLoverMum]

Pretty bonkers but necessary detour for Coxhoe services, this weekend. One of the roads was tricky enough on the scarlet band 58, almost coming face to face with someone's living room to let the 57A through, and I noticed that the X12 had gone the same way!

[Jimmi]

Demonstrator StreetLite SK17HHL has entered passenger service at Darlington depot today on the 1/5/5A/12 circuit. It's currently on the 14:42 5 to Darlington Town Centre.
Arriva North East: SK17HHL by Matthew Jimmison, on Flickr

[RobinHood]

Demonstrator StreetLite SK17HHL has entered passenger service at Darlington depot today on the 1/5/5A/12 circuit. It's currently on the 14:42 5 to Darlington Town Centre.
Arriva North East: SK17HHL by Matthew Jimmison, on Flickr

Apparently this one has a higher spec engine, hence the trial.

[omnicity4659]

StreetDeck SK17 HHC has moved to Redcar, for use there instead of the high-speed interurban routes at Ashington.