Arriva Future Orders
Arriva Future Orders
(24 Oct 2020, 1:48 pm)L469 YVK So are Arriva running the 110 using a mixed fleet of StreetDecks & ADL E400 classics?Unsure but these have been kept in Wrights since they went bust and then when they were ready Arriva cancelled them due to the pandemic. I presume they are.
(24 Oct 2020, 1:48 pm)L469 YVK So are Arriva running the 110 using a mixed fleet of StreetDecks & ADL E400 classics?Unsure but these have been kept in Wrights since they went bust and then when they were ready Arriva cancelled them due to the pandemic. I presume they are.
(24 Oct 2020, 5:14 pm)NewcastleOne Unsure but these have been kept in Wrights since they went bust and then when they were ready Arriva cancelled them due to the pandemic. I presume they are.It goes to show the vulnerable state that Arriva is in if they're cancelling new vehicle orders. Newcastle CAZ has been postponed but by how much I don't know. Regardless, Arriva are going to have to upgrade their fleet eventually (not perhaps within the 18 months given the circumstances).
(24 Oct 2020, 5:14 pm)NewcastleOne Unsure but these have been kept in Wrights since they went bust and then when they were ready Arriva cancelled them due to the pandemic. I presume they are.It goes to show the vulnerable state that Arriva is in if they're cancelling new vehicle orders. Newcastle CAZ has been postponed but by how much I don't know. Regardless, Arriva are going to have to upgrade their fleet eventually (not perhaps within the 18 months given the circumstances).
(24 Oct 2020, 5:52 pm)L469 YVK It goes to show the vulnerable state that Arriva is in if they're cancelling new vehicle orders. Newcastle CAZ has been postponed but by how much I don't know. Regardless, Arriva are going to have to upgrade their fleet eventually (not perhaps within the 18 months given the circumstances).
Can see a lot of service cuts to the services "that have been that way for 25 years" happening. A lot of streamlining & downsizing. In response to claims that ANE have made more profit than GNE, yes but at what expense? GNE have invested heavily over the years.
I can see Arriva broken and sold within the next few years as they don't have the capacity going forward. Ashington depot would thrive under GNE though if they got it. Big expansion of "X-Lines" and also a similar demographic to Consett & Stanley in the sense of the area being a "commuting" as well as ex mining.
(24 Oct 2020, 5:52 pm)L469 YVK It goes to show the vulnerable state that Arriva is in if they're cancelling new vehicle orders. Newcastle CAZ has been postponed but by how much I don't know. Regardless, Arriva are going to have to upgrade their fleet eventually (not perhaps within the 18 months given the circumstances).
Can see a lot of service cuts to the services "that have been that way for 25 years" happening. A lot of streamlining & downsizing. In response to claims that ANE have made more profit than GNE, yes but at what expense? GNE have invested heavily over the years.
I can see Arriva broken and sold within the next few years as they don't have the capacity going forward. Ashington depot would thrive under GNE though if they got it. Big expansion of "X-Lines" and also a similar demographic to Consett & Stanley in the sense of the area being a "commuting" as well as ex mining.
(24 Oct 2020, 11:26 pm)Storx It's not a 'claim' that Arriva North East make more profit than GNE it's a fact.You need to pay for the investments from your profits thou.
It's the only fact in the whole thing you've wrote there, the rest of it is assumptions at best. Also most of the buses in Northumbria which operate into Newcastle are Euro 6 already. Investments doesn't affect profits so that's irrelevant, if anything that should increase profits not vice versa since patronage should go up.
If your going to make claims such as, 'Arriva don't have the capacity going forward,' then you need to back it up with evidence which I must've missed somewhere. Cancelling an order of 7 buses isn't that. You don't tend to spend money during a pandemic when your profits are down when you don't need too it's just suicidal.
(24 Oct 2020, 11:26 pm)Storx It's not a 'claim' that Arriva North East make more profit than GNE it's a fact.You need to pay for the investments from your profits thou.
It's the only fact in the whole thing you've wrote there, the rest of it is assumptions at best. Also most of the buses in Northumbria which operate into Newcastle are Euro 6 already. Investments doesn't affect profits so that's irrelevant, if anything that should increase profits not vice versa since patronage should go up.
If your going to make claims such as, 'Arriva don't have the capacity going forward,' then you need to back it up with evidence which I must've missed somewhere. Cancelling an order of 7 buses isn't that. You don't tend to spend money during a pandemic when your profits are down when you don't need too it's just suicidal.
(25 Oct 2020, 6:53 am)citaro5284 You need to pay for the investments from your profits thou.
So, if you are not spending money and investing in new vehicles, then your profits will be higher as you have not got to pay for them?
(25 Oct 2020, 6:53 am)citaro5284 You need to pay for the investments from your profits thou.
So, if you are not spending money and investing in new vehicles, then your profits will be higher as you have not got to pay for them?
I have to say some people on here have right downer on arriva. Where i used to live i had no option but to use them and found i got an efficient service. I've now moved into GNE area and although the service is on equal terms at times missing buses, buses going past bus stops is something I never experience with arriva.
Also in My GNE area i hear about all these new buses with wifi, neon lights, 21 cctv cameras, charging points.... the last GNE bus i used to get home on had no of these and it had no heating either. !
Finally on GNE taking bit of ANE if it was sold.... I cant believe anyone would want a monopoly. even now its not great but imagine if GNE got north of tyne with only limit comp from Stagecoach. My mind boggles at the though!
(24 Oct 2020, 11:26 pm)Storx If your going to make claims such as, 'Arriva don't have the capacity going forward,' then you need to back it up with evidence which I must've missed somewhere. Cancelling an order of 7 buses isn't that. You don't tend to spend money during a pandemic when your profits are down when you don't need too it's just suicidal.But the point is that the order for the 110 was planned 'pre-pandemic and was only coincidentially delayed due to the troubles with WrightBus. As was GNE's but with a bit of shuffling around (premature frequency increase of X21 reversed), the Go-Ahead group took full delivery and GNE even benefited with good condition coaches for the X9 & X10.
(25 Oct 2020, 8:45 am)Rob44 Finally on GNE taking bit of ANE if it was sold.... I cant believe anyone would want a monopoly. even now its not great but imagine if GNE got north of tyne with only limit comp from Stagecoach. My mind boggles at the though!Wouldn't be the case at all considering Stagecoach's presence in Newcastle. Would likely go:
(25 Oct 2020, 6:53 am)citaro5284 You need to pay for the investments from your profits thou.It will get to a point though that Arriva will need to spend!
So, if you are not spending money and investing in new vehicles, then your profits will be higher as you have not got to pay for them?
(24 Oct 2020, 11:26 pm)Storx If your going to make claims such as, 'Arriva don't have the capacity going forward,' then you need to back it up with evidence which I must've missed somewhere. Cancelling an order of 7 buses isn't that. You don't tend to spend money during a pandemic when your profits are down when you don't need too it's just suicidal.But the point is that the order for the 110 was planned 'pre-pandemic and was only coincidentially delayed due to the troubles with WrightBus. As was GNE's but with a bit of shuffling around (premature frequency increase of X21 reversed), the Go-Ahead group took full delivery and GNE even benefited with good condition coaches for the X9 & X10.
(25 Oct 2020, 8:45 am)Rob44 Finally on GNE taking bit of ANE if it was sold.... I cant believe anyone would want a monopoly. even now its not great but imagine if GNE got north of tyne with only limit comp from Stagecoach. My mind boggles at the though!Wouldn't be the case at all considering Stagecoach's presence in Newcastle. Would likely go:
(25 Oct 2020, 6:53 am)citaro5284 You need to pay for the investments from your profits thou.It will get to a point though that Arriva will need to spend!
So, if you are not spending money and investing in new vehicles, then your profits will be higher as you have not got to pay for them?
(25 Oct 2020, 8:49 am)L469 YVK But the point is that the order for the 110 was planned 'pre-pandemic and was only coincidentially delayed due to the troubles with WrightBus. As was GNE's but with a bit of shuffling around (premature frequency increase of X21 reversed), the Go-Ahead group took full delivery and GNE even benefited with good condition coaches for the X9 & X10
(25 Oct 2020, 8:49 am)L469 YVK But the point is that the order for the 110 was planned 'pre-pandemic and was only coincidentially delayed due to the troubles with WrightBus. As was GNE's but with a bit of shuffling around (premature frequency increase of X21 reversed), the Go-Ahead group took full delivery and GNE even benefited with good condition coaches for the X9 & X10
Also don't forget the Streetdecks were ordered by Arriva in response a requirement for low emission buses in use in the area covered by the Leeds Clean Air Zone which had planned to be introduced in January 2020, but due to delays by the UK Government it was delayed until January 2021 at the earliest,.
In September 2019 Wrightbus went bust and so the last 7 Streetdecks were delayed, Arriva then decided that as the CAZ was delayed and there was a chance that the buses would not have a warranty, those last 7 were cancelled.
On 13/10/2020 the CAZ was cancelled as the reductions of traffic due to COVID had reduced emissions to below the levels that the CAZ was due to result in.
(24 Oct 2020, 1:48 pm)L469 YVK So are Arriva running the 110 using a mixed fleet of StreetDecks & ADL E400 classics?Yes, and as well as the mix of bus types there is the mix of liveries as well
(24 Oct 2020, 1:48 pm)L469 YVK So are Arriva running the 110 using a mixed fleet of StreetDecks & ADL E400 classics?Yes, and as well as the mix of bus types there is the mix of liveries as well
(25 Oct 2020, 7:40 pm)IRHardy Also don't forget the Streetdecks were ordered by Arriva in response a requirement for low emission buses in use in the area covered by the Leeds Clean Air Zone which had planned to be introduced in January 2020, but due to delays by the UK Government it was delayed until January 2021 at the earliest,.But why did GNE persist with their order then despite the uncertainty regarding WrightBus at the time? Unless Storx's point about the credit applied to GNE and Arriva finance in a different way (we will unlikely know that).
In September 2019 Wrightbus went bust and so the last 7 Streetdecks were delayed, Arriva then decided that as the CAZ was delayed and there was a chance that the buses would not have a warranty, those last 7 were cancelled.
On 13/10/2020 the CAZ was cancelled as the reductions of traffic due to COVID had reduced emissions to below the levels that the CAZ was due to result in.
(25 Oct 2020, 7:40 pm)IRHardy Also don't forget the Streetdecks were ordered by Arriva in response a requirement for low emission buses in use in the area covered by the Leeds Clean Air Zone which had planned to be introduced in January 2020, but due to delays by the UK Government it was delayed until January 2021 at the earliest,.But why did GNE persist with their order then despite the uncertainty regarding WrightBus at the time? Unless Storx's point about the credit applied to GNE and Arriva finance in a different way (we will unlikely know that).
In September 2019 Wrightbus went bust and so the last 7 Streetdecks were delayed, Arriva then decided that as the CAZ was delayed and there was a chance that the buses would not have a warranty, those last 7 were cancelled.
On 13/10/2020 the CAZ was cancelled as the reductions of traffic due to COVID had reduced emissions to below the levels that the CAZ was due to result in.
(25 Oct 2020, 7:40 pm)IRHardy On 13/10/2020 the CAZ was cancelled as the reductions of traffic due to COVID had reduced emissions to below the levels that the CAZ was due to result in.
(25 Oct 2020, 7:40 pm)IRHardy On 13/10/2020 the CAZ was cancelled as the reductions of traffic due to COVID had reduced emissions to below the levels that the CAZ was due to result in.
(25 Oct 2020, 8:49 pm)L469 YVK But why did GNE persist with their order then despite the uncertainty regarding WrightBus at the time? Unless Storx's point about the credit applied to GNE and Arriva finance in a different way (we will unlikely know that).Last I heard, Arriva negotiate longer warranty terms on their vehicles but the new Wrightbus owners not prepared to agree to longer warranty terms.
@Dan - Do bus operators finance in the same ways or differently? (Don't need to know the particulars of course)
(25 Oct 2020, 8:49 pm)L469 YVK But why did GNE persist with their order then despite the uncertainty regarding WrightBus at the time? Unless Storx's point about the credit applied to GNE and Arriva finance in a different way (we will unlikely know that).Last I heard, Arriva negotiate longer warranty terms on their vehicles but the new Wrightbus owners not prepared to agree to longer warranty terms.
@Dan - Do bus operators finance in the same ways or differently? (Don't need to know the particulars of course)
(25 Oct 2020, 9:26 pm)RobinHood Last I heard, Arriva negotiate longer warranty terms on their vehicles but the new Wrightbus owners not prepared to agree to longer warranty terms.Will be interesting going forward if that's the case. The 308 if that was to receive new vehicles (doubt it) would suit the StreetDeck hands down.
(25 Oct 2020, 9:26 pm)RobinHood Last I heard, Arriva negotiate longer warranty terms on their vehicles but the new Wrightbus owners not prepared to agree to longer warranty terms.Will be interesting going forward if that's the case. The 308 if that was to receive new vehicles (doubt it) would suit the StreetDeck hands down.
(25 Oct 2020, 8:49 pm)L469 YVK But why did GNE persist with their order then despite the uncertainty regarding WrightBus at the time? Unless Storx's point about the credit applied to GNE and Arriva finance in a different way (we will unlikely know that).All the big groups will finance vehicles differently - some will buy outright, some will buy on HP, others will lease.
@Dan - Do bus operators finance in the same ways or differently? (Don't need to know the particulars of course)
(25 Oct 2020, 8:49 pm)L469 YVK But why did GNE persist with their order then despite the uncertainty regarding WrightBus at the time? Unless Storx's point about the credit applied to GNE and Arriva finance in a different way (we will unlikely know that).All the big groups will finance vehicles differently - some will buy outright, some will buy on HP, others will lease.
@Dan - Do bus operators finance in the same ways or differently? (Don't need to know the particulars of course)
(26 Oct 2020, 7:44 pm)V514DFT Whats on the market bus wise for a potential replacement for the Solos when the time comes?I fear that lots of the Solos won't be replaced when their time comes, due to service reductions as a result of lower passenger numbers medium to long term.
(26 Oct 2020, 7:44 pm)V514DFT Whats on the market bus wise for a potential replacement for the Solos when the time comes?I fear that lots of the Solos won't be replaced when their time comes, due to service reductions as a result of lower passenger numbers medium to long term.
If Arriva do order in the not so distant future, I can see them going (depending on PVRs etc)
- 10x OM934 StreetDecks or ADL E400MMC (Voith) for 308
- 6x OM936 StreetDecks or Scania E400MMC for X93
7628-37 would then cascade down and replace older Geminis in turn replacing older double deckers.
7401-06 would then go to Ashington / Alnwick for either the X14 or X20 with 2x either also going or acting as 'float' spares.
