(26 Jun 2021, 11:13 am)Rapidsnap wrote I think the 2/2A should be split back into 2 at Sunderland. The 2/2A branded as the Sunderland District Pendulum (Back and forth between Sunderland and Washington). And the southern section as the 42 as the Sunderland District Rambler (Rambling its way through Ryhope)

Would have to be the 62 now as little coasters have the 42

(26 Jun 2021, 12:50 pm)Storx wrote Is it just me who thinks painting everything in the same area the same colour as pointless.

For routes which are mainly city work I much prefer the idea of a corporate livery with sub route branding - essentially a tube style branding. You can still then run everything under the "Sunderland District" overall brand, but then it's simply a coloured section incorporated into the livery with 2/2A slapped on. 

In this example, who is realistically going to be saying "are you getting the Berries tonight?". Compare that to meaningful brands such as the Angel, where that statement would make much more sense. 

This is an example of what I'm meaning: 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/41987105@N...ateposted/

(26 Jun 2021, 12:59 pm)mb134 wrote For routes which are mainly city work I much prefer the idea of a corporate livery with sub route branding - essentially a tube style branding. You can still then run everything under the "Sunderland District" overall brand, but then it's simply a coloured section incorporated into the livery with 2/2A slapped on. 

In this example, who is realistically going to be saying "are you getting the Berries tonight?". Compare that to meaningful brands such as the Angel, where that statement would make much more sense. 

This is an example of what I'm meaning: 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/41987105@N...ateposted/

Yeah know what you mean there, I don't mind that idea either actually. First Aberdeen has done that for years as I know they used to be 'The Red Line' and stuff and always thought it was a good idea as it was easy to tell them apart. Always think colours are a better way to do it as you remember them easier especially for people who never use them. I know people always refer as the Angel as the 'green buses' which works. I quite like First Berkshire livery in terms of that - https://www.oxford-chiltern-bus-page.co....20Bras.jpg

Mind I do like the Trent Barton approach which uses brand names and get's away with the numbers altogether and uses colours / name to seperate each of the routes with a common design through them - https://www.trentbarton.co.uk/resources/...-fleet.png.

Even the interior uses the colour of the brand on it's headrests which I quite like and makes them quite unique for each route - https://www.flickr.com/photos/66523711@N06/37481568850/

(25 Jun 2021, 8:43 pm)Micheal Aaron wrote It's okay. It will look better when it's out on the road. At least there's a better journey to Washington/Sunderland now

It's literally the same service, but with a stupid name and a second downgrade of vehicles in six years...

(26 Jun 2021, 10:53 am)Big O wrote The 2/2A seem to be quite frequent, are they that well used I don’t remember seeing many full when I used to drive in Sunderland?

I use the 2A frequently and I'd say there's two sets of passengers. Those travelling Penshaw to the Galleries, as the 4 only serves the bottom end rather than Barnwell etc, and then it tends to pick up again along Chester Road into Sunderland.

There is 3 sets of passengers on the 2s, the 2 sets you mentioned and then the winter gardens to silksworth lot, it is a very popular route and is well used

Is the 39 39A gonna be the same?

(26 Jun 2021, 8:38 pm)Acky81 wrote Is the 39 39A gonna be the same?

No one knows, maybe they keep them red and call them the strawberries

It seems to me far too confusing and basically triple branding “Berries” as part of “Sunderland District” which presumably will have other colours, all of which is part of “Go North East”

Why are they insisting on replacing practically every existing brand, Trent Barton and Transdev don’t do this.

I’m surprised “Venture” survived and it didn’t become “Consett Yellows”

(25 Jun 2021, 7:32 pm)Michael wrote Just checking the time for the 2/2A for a friend and the new timetable pops up with the brand name on...


Sunderland District Berries


https://passenger-line-assets.s3.eu-west...4b61ab.pdf

This is hilarious 

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(25 Jun 2021, 7:57 pm)omnicity4659 wrote Who, apart from spotters, is going to start suggesting that they get the "Sunderland District Berries" bus to work?

This along with East Gateshead Rider and whatever other crap Stenning has produced isn't exactly roll-of-your-tongue material. Just branding for the sake of branding.

There are attractions in Sunderland and Penshaw that inspiration could've been derived from, but clearly someone in London doesn't know the importance of these places compared to local designers.

Absolutely! I completely agree with you mate. "Berries". What hilarity.

Ludicrous the lot of it. The network looks horrendous now. Stenning has ruined the image of this once great operator. He doesn't know shit from sand and I've loathed everything he's done design-wise for Go North East. I could have done a better job, and that's coming from someone who doesn't like his own work. You could have revolutionised it!! But no, they join the bandwagon and go with him and his laziness, like 99% of operators around the country. All because of money.

I'm also with you on what you said about the local attractions. There is SO much inspiration, yet he chooses a fruit — not to mention one which is totally irrelevant to the area. Pmsl.
Berries.  Eeeeeeee — what a laugh. 

(26 Jun 2021, 12:50 pm)Storx wrote Is it just me who thinks painting everything in the same area the same colour as pointless.

The original branded worked as everything had different colours so you knew them by that.

ie. in Gateshead

Black = Loop
Purple = Orbit
Yellow = Quaylink
Pink = Angel
Orange = Fab 56
Blue = Fab 57
Green = Highwayman
Gold = Citylink
Red = Red Arrows
Creme = Coaster
Maroon = Waggonway / Crusader (Issue there)

It made sense as you knew what your bus was before it came, think that's everything as it was at first.

Now everything is the same colour or brand it doesn't really work. Little Coasters for example being one and the Cobalt and Coast (used to be Cobalt Clipper and Centurion).

It's certainly not just you, Storx: I share the same opinion.

In my eyes, the overuse of pink (of all colours), on top of all the lacklustre changes that have been put in place over the last two years, has reduced an operator prized for its uniqueness and diversity to something which is now babyfied, plain and uninteresting.

Very rushed, so excuse the overall quality and finish - but here's my suggestion for the 2/2A. 

Carrying on the Best Impressions "style" for the sake of realism and consistency (and I cba to create a whole new brand identity just for a forum)... so sorry Adam and streetdeckfan! 

Lots of negativity around Best Impressions here but what if - and it’s a big if - their design is only as good as the brief they have been given?

If you don’t like any branding that’s done nowadays, maybe the brief has changed.


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(27 Jun 2021, 5:21 am)Dan wrote Lots of negativity around Best Impressions here but what if - and it’s a big if - their design is only as good as the brief they have been given?

If you don’t like any branding that’s done nowadays, maybe the brief has changed.


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Does GNE get a discount for each element reused by Ray?

(27 Jun 2021, 5:29 am)omnicity4659 wrote Does GNE get a discount for each element reused by Ray?

No.

In the same way that you don’t like the Sunderland District Berries livery, I don’t like your concept. Design is subjective and based on opinion.

Whilst your ‘Wearsider’ name has merit, it wouldn’t fit the brief. The brief was to revive the old Sunderland & District name in a modern way, for the majority of services in Sunderland, to create a network of services which are easily identifiable. Each route will carry this name and a descriptor for the colour of the front of the bus - in this case berries - with the rear of the bus being red. This means that each route is easily identifiable as it approaches (as has been suggested is a good thing above), keeps everything looking standardised (as has been suggested is a good thing above), and means that printed literature, network maps, etc, can all carry out the same colourscheme to create one network.

It is clearly inspired by Reading Buses - the concept and the name too in this instance - but if it worked well at Reading Buses, then perhaps it can here too.

The point made about the service being downgraded is 100% correct - but this was always going to happen when a CAZ is implemented in one area and not another, and is a discussion point in itself. Funding opportunities have been made available (with appropriate investment from the operator too), but it was always going to end up where operators reduced service levels, diverted/curtailed services to avoid the CAZ, or swapped vehicles around in their fleet to achieve compliance. If the Optare Versa buses are internally refurbished and fitted with USB charging points, there isn’t a notable downgrade in specification to customers on these routes.


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(26 Jun 2021, 11:05 pm)BeachBoy99 wrote This is hilarious 

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Absolutely! I completely agree with you mate. "Berries". What hilarity.

Ludicrous the lot of it. The network looks horrendous now. Stenning has ruined the image of this once great operator. He doesn't know shit from sand and I've loathed everything he's done design-wise for Go North East. I could have done a better job, and that's coming from someone who doesn't like his own work. You could have revolutionised it!! But no, they join the bandwagon and go with him and his laziness, like 99% of operators around the country. All because of money.

I'm also with you on what you said about the local attractions. There is SO much inspiration, yet he chooses a fruit — not to mention one which is totally irrelevant to the area. Pmsl.
Berries.  Eeeeeeee — what a laugh. 

You talk as if Go North East have just handed Ray Stenning a blank canvas to throw a design at. You do understand that the design agency actively work with the operator to come up with the relevant names and designs?...

Settle down before you give yourself an injury.

(27 Jun 2021, 6:37 am)Dan wrote It is clearly inspired by Reading Buses - the concept and the name too in this instance - but if it worked well at Reading Buses, then perhaps it can here too.

So, if marketed correctly, a more locally themed brand like ‘Black Cats’ wouldn’t be effective as something named after some fruit? Is the Reading Buses concept not compatible with other names?

I know they’re going to have ‘Sunderland District’ on them, but that clearly isn’t the main focus of the brand here.

Not sure any livery will do a lot to disguise the age and feel of the Versa on the 2/2A..

(27 Jun 2021, 7:05 am)S813 FVK wrote So, if marketed correctly, a more locally themed brand like ‘Black Cats’ wouldn’t be effective as something named after some fruit? Is the Reading Buses concept not compatible with other names?

I know they’re going to have ‘Sunderland District’ on them, but that clearly isn’t the main focus of the brand here.

Yes, the Reading Buses concept is compatible with other names and I'm not sure I suggested otherwise?

I think 'Black Cats' only works on local services around Sunderland - since its inception 15 years ago, the name has lost its meaning (as a Go North East brand) somewhat, and the services the Sunderland District family will be rolled out to (35, 61, etc) really aren't local bus services in Sunderland for parts of their routes.

(27 Jun 2021, 6:37 am)Dan wrote No.

So the company is being ripped off for designs already paid for by another company, in this case Reading Buses. I'd be laughing my way to the cashpoint.

In the same way that you don’t like the Sunderland District Berries livery, I don’t like your concept. Design is subjective and based on opinion.

Design also relies on constructive feedback and opinion. But thanks for your comment.

Whilst your ‘Wearsider’ name has merit, it wouldn’t fit the brief. The brief was to revive the old Sunderland & District name in a modern way, for the majority of services in Sunderland, to create a network of services which are easily identifiable. Each route will carry this name and a descriptor for the colour of the front of the bus - in this case berries - with the rear of the bus being red. This means that each route is easily identifiable as it approaches (as has been suggested is a good thing above), keeps everything looking standardised (as has been suggested is a good thing above), and means that printed literature, network maps, etc, can all carry out the same colourscheme to create one network.

It is clearly inspired by Reading Buses - the concept and the name too in this instance - but if it worked well at Reading Buses, then perhaps it can here too.

Fair enough to create a Reading-esque network in Sunderland...but "Sunderland District"? It's not exactly the catchiest name. And does GNE really want to put two company names on the sides of their buses...again? Fairly sure it caused brand confusion the last time. (See Northern.)

The colour coding concept is a good one, it's just that the way it's being executed is quite poor and it looks unprofessional.

(27 Jun 2021, 7:21 am)omnicity4659 wrote The colour coding concept is a good one, it's just that the way it's being executed is quite poor and it looks unprofessional.

To use your words... 'Design also relies on constructive feedback and opinion. But thanks for your comment.'

(27 Jun 2021, 7:27 am)Dan wrote To use your words... 'Design also relies on constructive feedback and opinion. But thanks for your comment.'

It's quite constructive, thanks. Hopefully someone with influence reads my and other people's comments made throughout this thread and takes it in the right way.

(27 Jun 2021, 7:33 am)omnicity4659 wrote It's quite constructive, thanks. Hopefully someone with influence reads it and takes it in the right way.

You've suggested the concept is good but the execution is 'poor' and 'unprofessional' - for your comment to be constructive, you'd be providing your opinion and reason for why you personally think that the execution doesn't deliver what the concept sets out to achieve. Your comment is not constructive at all.

(25 Jun 2021, 8:23 pm)ne14ne1 wrote Passengers aren’t going to refer to it as that and it’s just too much to be repeated over the NSAs every time the doors close.

(25 Jun 2021, 10:11 pm)Wybus wrote Brand names should be no more than 2 words (excluding “The” or “And”), 3 words are far too clunky that nobody will ever say in real life

(26 Jun 2021, 12:59 pm)mb134 wrote In this example, who is realistically going to be saying "are you getting the Berries tonight?". Compare that to meaningful brands such as the Angel, where that statement would make much more sense. 

(26 Jun 2021, 8:45 pm)Wybus wrote It seems to me far too confusing and basically triple branding “Berries” as part of “Sunderland District” which presumably will have other colours, all of which is part of “Go North East”

Because other people have stated the same things that I would've, Dan. And the last thing I want is to have others reading yet another thread of the same things being repeated all the time.

So find the above quotes as constructive feedback that I echo, along with my posts.

I think some Trentbarton brands and the First colour coded routes are good ideas, but naming things after fruits just doesn't work.

(27 Jun 2021, 8:14 am)omnicity4659 wrote Because other people have stated the same things that I would've, Dan. And the last thing I want is to have others reading yet another thread of the same things being repeated all the time.

So find the above quotes as constructive feedback that I echo, along with my posts.

I think some Trentbarton brands and the First colour coded routes are good ideas, but naming things after fruits just doesn't work.

All those comments are constructive criticism based on the name, not the colour concept.

The design is great, the colours are superb but I feel like this is open door for a euphemism.

(27 Jun 2021, 8:17 am)Dan wrote All those comments are constructive criticism based on the name, not the colour concept.

Part of the concept of the colour coding is allocating names to routes; red line, Metropolitan line, berries.

Anyway, I'm off to bed before I start another egotistical miseryfest.

(27 Jun 2021, 7:15 am)Dan wrote Yes, the Reading Buses concept is compatible with other names and I'm not sure I suggested otherwise?

I think 'Black Cats' only works on local services around Sunderland - since its inception 15 years ago, the name has lost its meaning (as a Go North East brand) somewhat, and the services the Sunderland District family will be rolled out to (35, 61, etc) really aren't local bus services in Sunderland for parts of their routes.

Is that you confirming all the non branded routes at Deptford will receive this brand? - same as the Solo's or will they bare a "Mini" in the brand name.


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2/2A, 9, 35, 39/39A, 55, 61 all getting the "Sunderland District" brand

33/38/38A/938 and the X6 would get the Solo version of the brand.


If each service is getting a different colour, then my guesses would be:

2/2A - Pink
9 - Yellow
35/35A – Green
39/39A – Silver
55 – Purple
61 - Blue
33/38/38A/938/X6 – Black


---------------------

Interesting to see if they apply it to the Citaro's after it was said, they would be withdrawn first.

It has already been said there will be no new bus orders for a while, so that can only mean that the citaros will probably be in the fleet for some time unless newer vehicles can be sourced from elsewhere (pre loved ones) who knows what the plans are but im sure a plan is in place and the life expectancy of the citaros is being monitored, they wont last forever but they are solid buses and for their age what bus doesn't have issues, they are still pretty reliable

(27 Jun 2021, 8:39 am)N1cholas wrote It has already been said there will be no new bus orders for a while, so that can only mean that the citaros will probably be in the fleet for some time unless newer vehicles can be sourced from elsewhere (pre loved ones) who knows what the plans are but im sure a plan is in place and the life expectancy of the citaros is being monitored, they wont last forever but they are solid buses and for their age what bus doesn't have issues, they are still pretty reliable

Aye that's true but I wonder if 5481/5483/5484/5486/5487 will still be withdrawn after all the dupes end, as that was planned.

(27 Jun 2021, 6:37 am)Dan wrote The brief was to revive the old Sunderland & District name in a modern way, for the majority of services in Sunderland, to create a network of services which are easily identifiable. Each route will carry this name and a descriptor for the colour of the front of the bus - in this case berries - with the rear of the bus being red. This means that each route is easily identifiable as it approaches (as has been suggested is a good thing above), keeps everything looking standardised (as has been suggested is a good thing above), and means that printed literature, network maps, etc, can all carry out the same colourscheme to create one network.


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It does make sense now from what you've said, its easier to print a "Sunderland Guide" too.


Will this be happening at other depots too? - so like Peterlee and Washington?