Here are two maps of Washington from 1989 and 1993 respectively.

93,the year i was born 

(01 Jul 2021, 5:10 pm)MurdnunoC wrote Here are two maps of Washington from 1989 and 1993 respectively.

637?
Can't remember that one at all.
It seems to shadow the 638 and according to the 1993 map, ran as far as The Galleries.

(01 Jul 2021, 7:04 pm)Andreos1 wrote 637?
Can't remember that one at all.
It seems to shadow the 638 and according to the 1993 map, ran as far as The Galleries.

It used to go via the QE and Dunston if memory serves.

(01 Jul 2021, 7:49 pm)MurdnunoC wrote It used to go via the QE and Dunston if memory serves.

I remember the 637 probably in the early 2000s that went from Wardley to Ryton via the QE and Dunston.

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(01 Jul 2021, 7:59 pm)big mac wrote I remember the 637 probably in the early 2000s that went from Wardley to Ryton via the QE and Dunston. 

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https://northeastbuses.co.uk/bygone/inde...eQuery=637&submit.x=10&submit.y=8

Just found this in the bygone era.
The Washington link had obviously gone by this stage, but I think this one passed me by.
Can remember the 638 (magical thing that it was) and the 639 (decker between Winlaton and Ellen Wilkinson Est via Low Fell and Beacon Lough). Can remember the 648 and 649 too

Following on from the Washington Debate I have made a service idea list which i think covers everything (forget the numbers i did those from a independents view).

Frequency, Allocation & PVR
201/202 (Combined Every 15 Mins): Enviro 200 MMC 8.9m (PVR of 4 or 5)
203/204 (Combined Every 15 Mins): Enviro 200 MMC 9.6m (PVR of 7 or 8)
205/206 (Hourly Clockwise, Hourly Anticlockwise): Optare Solo SR (PVR of 2)
207/208 (Hourly Clockwise, Hourly Anticlockwise): Optare Solo SR (PVR of 2)
210 (Up to Every 12 Minutes): Optare Versa or Metrocity (PVR of 11 or 12)

I would also be greatful if anybody would be kind enough to give me any blank bus designs so i could create visual brands and colours for these.

(01 Jul 2021, 7:59 pm)big mac wrote I remember the 637 probably in the early 2000s that went from Wardley to Ryton via the QE and Dunston. 

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(01 Jul 2021, 8:07 pm)Andreos1 wrote https://northeastbuses.co.uk/bygone/inde...eQuery=637&submit.x=10&submit.y=8

Just found this in the bygone era.
The Washington link had obviously gone by this stage, but I think this one passed me by.
Can remember the 638 (magical thing that it was) and the 639 (decker between Winlaton and Ellen Wilkinson Est via Low Fell and Beacon Lough). Can remember the 648 and 649 too

Two different services. The following is taken from a timetable from January 1994.

(01 Jul 2021, 8:16 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote Following on from the Washington Debate I have made a service idea list which i think covers everything (forget the numbers i did those from a independents view).

Frequency, Allocation & PVR
201/202 (Combined Every 15 Mins): Enviro 200 MMC 8.9m (PVR of 4 or 5)
203/204 (Combined Every 15 Mins): Enviro 200 MMC 9.6m (PVR of 7 or 8)
205/206 (Hourly Clockwise, Hourly Anticlockwise): Optare Solo SR (PVR of 2)
207/208 (Hourly Clockwise, Hourly Anticlockwise): Optare Solo SR (PVR of 2)
210 (Up to Every 12 Minutes): Optare Versa or Metrocity (PVR of 11 or 12)

I would also be greatful if anybody would be kind enough to give me any blank bus designs so i could create visual brands and colours for these.

Isn't the 210 just the 4 with Lambton Turning Circle added?

Also, The Drive is Barley Mow. Not Vigo. There will be ructions from some of the snobs on Vigo if they thought The Drive was on their estate.

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(01 Jul 2021, 8:21 pm)MurdnunoC wrote Two different services. The following is taken from a timetable from January 1994.

Ah! Thanks for clearing that one up.
Still no memory of it. 
Mind, even back then there's examples of the PTE having to fill gaps left by operators doing their own thing (638 evening route being different to its daytime route).

(01 Jul 2021, 10:03 am)Andreos1 wrote Always get mixed up with the 2/2a. Are they not circulars any more?
Unless I need to get off on a unique section (and check with the driver if it goes to Shiney or not), I tend to just board whichever version comes first.

The loop roads are funny things. Apart from Fallowfield Way and the back of Barmston, I'm not sure of any that have suitable places to stop. Hail & ride or otherwise.
There's either bends or some sort of camber on most of the ones I can think of.
I agree that it should be an option. But whether it could be or not, not sure.

Yeah I remember when I first moved to Washington in the very early 90s that the old minilinks used to operate on a hail and ride basis around the likes of Barmston and I remember it being a bit awkward for drivers as to where to stop etc. In recent years they have put more paving around one side of the village loop road, and on the other side they have small areas of paving along with Bus Stop road markings so that the buses can serve all parts of the village safely. Maybe this is something Sunderland Council can look to do with all villages in the area.

I know there are many villages in Washington (Blackfell, High Usworth, Teal Farm just to name a few) where the buses go through only one side of the village, meaning a fair walk for some, which will feel like a long walk for the elderley. No the wonder people don't see the bus as an attractive option anymore because it is clearly all about streamling which of course I can understand to a degree. I would rather see Go North East priortising ways of providing all people with a good reliable bus service for each village rather than constantly throwing monety at painting and chopping and changing brands every 5 minutes. In my opinion all villages should really have a minimum of a half hourly bus service within 5 mins walking distance of their home unless it is impossible to do so. If bus companies really want to encourage people to "be more green" and leave the car at home they need to be making it more attractive at least.

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(01 Jul 2021, 10:32 am)ASX_Terranova wrote In regards to the loop roads, why did the services stop. 
I also think a taxibus would probably work for these areas.
I'm also going to make a suggestion for another washington taxibus (see attachment).

I think Go North East should consider looking at buying some of these types of minibuses to serve areas with lower passnger numbers and areas where it is tight to get bigger buses around

https://www.flickr.com/photos/46986413@N07/35122150323/

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(01 Jul 2021, 11:21 am)Adrian wrote I disagree with you there. The Little Pinks network is clearly designed around operational efficiency, rather than the customer. There are still a number of issues that exist from when the Galleries split first happened. 


The Galleries terminus still allows through-fares, but it is not possible to get a return fare, other than from Concord. For example, the 84 becomes an 82 at the Galleries and continues to Birtley, but on the return leg, that 82 becomes an 83 at the Galleries and serves a completely different set of stops between the Galleries and Concord. As there's no route saver tickets available, nor an area saver that covers the whole route, it leaves you needing a Purple Zone Go Zones ticket to cover the return journey via 3 buses.

Despite the through-journeys still existing, they are no longer advertised on the GNE timetable and have never been shown on the bus stop timetables (Nexus advised me that it wasn't possible, as they print timetables to the same standard throughout the network). So only those with knowledge of the services will know they don't have to get onto another bus at the Galleries. This isn't helpful to customers, especially those that infrequently use buses.

Dear me I never realised it was this bad! When I do use the Little Pinks I tend to only used the 83/4 to the Galleries or Concord and have never used the 81/2 since the changes! What a mess! Looking further into this am I right in thinking Rickleton only has a bus every 2 hours during the day on a Sunday?

(01 Jul 2021, 5:10 pm)MurdnunoC wrote Here are two maps of Washington from 1989 and 1993 respectively.

Are these roadmaps taken from an old Washington timetable? I thought I remembered the old 177/8 serving the whole of Washington during that time. I had asked a while ago on the bygone era if someone had a timetable for these services and someone kindly uploaded one but I think it was quite a while before this. Also don't seem to remember the 298/9??? If you have any timetables would is be possible for you to upload them please when you get the time? No worries if not.

Thanks

New Suggestion X9/X10 to Serve Washington Galleries. Given the fact it can be diverted through washington if high A19 congestion it wouldnt add much time on.

(02 Jul 2021, 4:53 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote New Suggestion X9/X10 to Serve Washington Galleries. Given the fact it can be diverted through washington if high A19 congestion it wouldnt add much time on.

And where do the customers who use Testos Roundabout bus stop go for their bus

(02 Jul 2021, 4:55 pm)ifm001 wrote And where do the customers who use Testos Roundabout bus stop go for their bus

X24 & X34

(02 Jul 2021, 5:22 pm)GNE6312 wrote X24 & X34

Neither of those stop at Testos, nor do they run late at night or on Sundays .  Fair enough X34 stops at Boldon but the X24 stops either side are Gateshead or Chester Road. Hell of a walk.

(02 Jul 2021, 5:24 pm)ifm001 wrote Neither of those stop at Testos, nor do they run late at night or on Sundays .  Fair enough X34 stops at Boldon but the X24 stops either side are Gateshead or Chester Road. Hell of a walk.

Never knew they didn't serve testos always just presumed they did.

(02 Jul 2021, 4:53 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote New Suggestion X9/X10 to Serve Washington Galleries. Given the fact it can be diverted through washington if high A19 congestion it wouldnt add much time on.

You've got the 4 running to Heworth every 12 minutes, so ample opportunity to connect with the X9/X10 there.
The X1 is timed at 36 minutes during the day Washington to Newcastle, and the X11 on an evening takes 32 minutes, so I'd suggest there'd be no benefit in adding the X9/X10 to the existing X1 links.

The only realistic benefit would be a link to Dalton Park, but I don't really think it's a regular shopping pattern for Washington, so not sure how much use it would get.

Return fares are possible on Little Pinks. The ticket machines give options for Heworth, Concord etc to be set even if the service in theory terminates at The Galleries. In theory, if someone purchased a return on the 82 from Birtley to Heworth, they'd be able to change to the next 84 at The Galleries and continue their journey. In reality, the journey isn't the quickest so the majority would use the 82 into Birtley then change to a 21 to get to Gateshead which off the top of my head would be quicker to connect to the Metro at Gateshead.

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(02 Jul 2021, 4:55 pm)ifm001 wrote And where do the customers who use Testos Roundabout bus stop go for their bus

How many of those customers are there? The Testos stop seems to be very rarely used.

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We need an alt service to the X1 for Washington - Newcastle. Something to allow the X1 to avoid recover from delays and busy services. The service could either go via the Metrocentre or Saltwell Park.

(03 Jul 2021, 10:52 am)ASX_Terranova wrote We need an alt service to the X1 for Washington - Newcastle. Something to allow the X1 to avoid recover from delays and busy services. The service could either go via the Metrocentre or Saltwell Park.

Will it just add more time going via metrocentre or saltwell park? , should split the x1 into x1 and x2, x2 doing the old x94 route between Hetton bus station and galleries then non stop to concord then old x95 route to Newcastle , it would give passengers in concord area a faster service to Gateshead/Newcastle?


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(02 Jul 2021, 10:15 pm)6049 wrote Return fares are possible on Little Pinks. The ticket machines give options for Heworth, Concord etc to be set even if the service in theory terminates at The Galleries. In theory, if someone purchased a return on the 82 from Birtley to Heworth, they'd be able to change to the next 84 at The Galleries and continue their journey. In reality, the journey isn't the quickest so the majority would use the 82 into Birtley then change to a 21 to get to Gateshead which off the top of my head would be quicker to connect to the Metro at Gateshead.

A return portion of a ticket is single use, so the QR code won't work/be valid if you changed at the Galleries to continue your return, or your ticket will be punched, if that still happens. Customer services have previously confirmed to me that it is not a valid option.

(03 Jul 2021, 11:43 am)Adrian wrote A return portion of a ticket is single use, so the QR code won't work/be valid if you changed at the Galleries to continue your return, or your ticket will be punched, if that still happens. Customer services have previously confirmed to me that it is not a valid option.

I didnt think there was a need to change buses, I thought the number changed once it got to galleries. Therefore no need to scan return ticket twice

(03 Jul 2021, 11:46 am)JP6004 wrote I didnt think there was a need to change buses, I thought the number changed once it got to galleries. Therefore no need to scan return ticket twice

The timetable complicates it.
83 Concord to Washington Galleries, via Barmston Court and Biddick changes to an 81 Washington Galleries to Rickleton
84 Heworth to Washington Galleries, via Washington Village changes to an 82 Washington Galleries to Birtley

However, on the return trip:
81 from Rickleton to Washington Galleries changes to an 84 to Heworth, via Washington Village.
82 from Birtley changes to an 83 to Concord via Barmston Court and Biddick.

81/82/83/84 may share some common parts of the route, e.g. Washington Galleries and Concord but by large they don't. The exception being an evening, where the 81/82 both operate to Birtley, to maintain the 30 minute frequency.

(03 Jul 2021, 11:43 am)Adrian wrote A return portion of a ticket is single use, so the QR code won't work/be valid if you changed at the Galleries to continue your return, or your ticket will be punched, if that still happens. Customer services have previously confirmed to me that it is not a valid option.

Do they still not have the loophole where the return QR codes can be scanned unlimited times?

(03 Jul 2021, 10:52 am)ASX_Terranova wrote We need an alt service to the X1 for Washington - Newcastle. Something to allow the X1 to avoid recover from delays and busy services. The service could either go via the Metrocentre or Saltwell Park.

How about extending the 4 to Newcastle?

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(03 Jul 2021, 1:10 pm)big mac wrote How about extending the 4 to Newcastle? 

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What would be the point?

The core frequency of the service is every 12 minutes. If extended to Newcastle, it would most likely follow the route of the 27, which has a core frequency of every 15 minutes. To accommodate the former, it is most likely the latter would be withdrawn as people can easily change buses at Heworth onto the most direct route, or alternatively use one of the more indirect routes into Newcastle,  or the Metro.

Plus there is the issue of reliability to consider. I don't know how reliable the 4 is, but you can guarantee it is bound to be less reliable if extended to Newcastle.

(03 Jul 2021, 1:10 pm)big mac wrote How about extending the 4 to Newcastle? 

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They've tried it a few times in its previous guise as the 194.
As handy as it was, it never seemed to work and it reverted back to terminating at Heworth.
Ditto the 191. That never lasted long either. Although that may have been down to frequency and it shadowing the 194 and 294 for a large portion of the route.

(03 Jul 2021, 1:40 pm)Andreos1 wrote They've tried it a few times in its previous guise as the 194.
As handy as it was, it never seemed to work and it reverted back to terminating at Heworth.
Ditto the 191. That never lasted long either. Although that may have been down to frequency and it shadowing the 194 and 294 for a large portion of the route.

Did it not work because of reliability issues or not enough passengers?

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(03 Jul 2021, 11:41 am)cbma06 wrote Will it just add more time going via metrocentre or saltwell park? , should split the x1 into x1 and x2, x2 doing the old x94 route between Hetton bus station and galleries then non stop to concord then old x95 route to Newcastle , it would give passengers in concord area a faster service to Gateshead/Newcastle?


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If you go via the A1, harlow green, low fell, saltwell park, bensham & redhugh bridge, it takes about the same time as the X1 between the galleries and eldon square. You would also give people a direct bus to central station and saltwell park.