(10 Sep 2021, 8:58 am)Drifter60 wrote It’s a fine line though, I’ve got a friend who lives in Ludworth the only bus route is the Arriva 24 Durham-Hartlepool. She doesn’t drive, but actively refuses to go anywhere but Durham by bus, the journey to Durham is a pretty direct route. But the one towards Hartlepool goes round practically every estate to get to Peterlee Town Centre, Pennine Drive/Oakerside - I’m sure the whole route around Peterlee takes about 15 minutes. Too much around the houses, puts people off. One thing I will say I, I think it’s a decent decision to have the 62 avoid the estates in Easington Colliery, whilst those areas are losing one of their buses per hour, sending the service round there would just add too much time to an already long timetable.

I live in Ludworth and have been known to walk the 20 minutes to Thornley to catch the more direct 22 before because I lose the will on the 24. I can tolerate the  various detours around Shotton Colliery but Oakeside's a killer. There's a fine line between going around some of the houses and all of them.

(10 Sep 2021, 9:49 am)tcts24 wrote I live in Ludworth and have been known to walk the 20 minutes to Thornley to catch the more direct 22 before because I lose the will on the 24. I can tolerate the  various detours around Shotton Colliery but Oakeside's a killer. There's a fine line between going around some of the houses and all of them.

Agree the 24 it is a bit much having the tour of Peterlee maybe having another service for Oakeside would be better like bringing the 25 back that could do Peterlee - Durham via Oakeside and Easington’s.

(10 Sep 2021, 10:22 am)col87 wrote Agree the 24 it is a bit much having the tour of Peterlee maybe having another service for Oakeside would be better like bringing the 25 back that could do Peterlee - Durham via Oakeside and Easington’s.

That’s what happens when Arriva withdrawals town services and use out of town services as a replacement , all for profit now rather than passenger needs


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What have the loadings been like on the 21 extension to Brandon so far? The few times we've drove past it I haven't seen a soul on board.

(16 Sep 2021, 7:49 pm)streetdeckfan wrote What have the loadings been like on the 21 extension to Brandon so far? The few times we've drove past it I haven't seen a soul on board.

I had a go on it at the start of the week. From Durham towards Brandon there were two people on as well as me, and then on the next journey back to Durham there were three other passengers on board.

Also, it wasn't on the timetable displays at any of the bus stops around Brandon so that obviously doesn't help if people don't know about it.

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(10 Sep 2021, 10:22 am)col87 wrote Agree the 24 it is a bit much having the tour of Peterlee maybe having another service for Oakeside would be better like bringing the 25 back that could do Peterlee - Durham via Oakeside and Easington’s.

Personally I don't see the issue with the 24. There won't be many people going from Durham to Hartlepool throughout and unless the whole villages get on in Ludworth etc then there's no demand for a quicker service really. In a similar way there won't be many people going from Blackhall to Durham.

imo. it's more for serving.

Oakeside - Durham
Oakeside - Peterlee
Shotton Collery and all the villages inbetween service - Durham
Peterlee - Hartlepool

Shotton Collery and Durham have a quicker service on the 22 to Peterlee so it's only the 4 small villages Sherburn, Shadwell, Ludworth and Haswell and there's probably 5k between them (in other areas of the country they wouldn't have a service at all especially on evenings and Sundays).

You could bring that 25 back, but the 24 wouldn't be running in the evenings so that's the compromise and the estates of Peterlee, which there's more passengers anyway wouldn't have a direct service to Hartlepool.

(17 Sep 2021, 7:11 am)Storx wrote Personally I don't see the issue with the 24. There won't be many people going from Durham to Hartlepool throughout and unless the whole villages get on in Ludworth etc then there's no demand for a quicker service really. In a similar way there won't be many people going from Blackhall to Durham.

imo. it's more for serving.

Oakeside - Durham
Oakeside - Peterlee
Shotton Collery and all the villages inbetween service - Durham
Peterlee - Hartlepool

Shotton Collery and Durham have a quicker service on the 22 to Peterlee so it's only the 4 small villages Sherburn, Shadwell, Ludworth and Haswell and there's probably 5k between them (in other areas of the country they wouldn't have a service at all especially on evenings and Sundays).

You could bring that 25 back, but the 24 wouldn't be running in the evenings so that's the compromise and the estates of Peterlee, which there's more passengers anyway wouldn't have a direct service to Hartlepool.

I think it’s all about perception to a certain extent, I’ve done the 24 route years back from Durham to Horden - and it felt pretty direct until it got to Peterlee Moorcock then we did an approx. 15 minute tour of housing estates in Peterlee and it just felt such a long winded route. We ended up with an added 10-15 minutes onto the journey and came out just a little bit further down Burnhope Way, a journey that would have been 2 minutes just running direct past the college. I agree Oakerside should be served, but I suppose at the minute do you put off anyone who may want to use it long distance to go from Blackhall to Durham or Ludworth to Hartlepool because actually it just feel it takes forever. 

On a wider note and a general observation from across the forum, I’m not sure if I like the whole attitude of “people should be grateful because the alternative is no service” so whatever the issues maybe the buses take too long, they don’t go where people want them to go etc. but hey be grateful it’s that or nothing as you’re a small village/estate whom doesn’t deserve decent bus services. Very low standards, as if the public should just get on with on below par services. Do we also suggest a small town shouldn’t complain about their only main supermarket because it’s that or nothing. No one else is going to open in this town as there isn’t any demand, so use the one with bad customer service and long queues because it’s all you’re going to get.

(17 Sep 2021, 9:14 am)Drifter60 wrote I think it’s all about perception to a certain extent, I’ve done the 24 route years back from Durham to Horden - and it felt pretty direct until it got to Peterlee Moorcock then we did an approx. 15 minute tour of housing estates in Peterlee and it just felt such a long winded route. We ended up with an added 10-15 minutes onto the journey and came out just a little bit further down Burnhope Way, a journey that would have been 2 minutes just running direct past the college. I agree Oakerside should be served, but I suppose at the minute do you put off anyone who may want to use it long distance to go from Blackhall to Durham or Ludworth to Hartlepool because actually it just feel it takes forever. 

On a wider note and a general observation from across the forum, I’m not sure if I like the whole attitude of “people should be grateful because the alternative is no service” so whatever the issues maybe the buses take too long, they don’t go where people want them to go etc. but hey be grateful it’s that or nothing as you’re a small village/estate whom doesn’t deserve decent bus services. Very low standards, as if the public should just get on with on below par services. Do we also suggest a small town shouldn’t complain about their only main supermarket because it’s that or nothing. No one else is going to open in this town as there isn’t any demand, so use the one with bad customer service and long queues because it’s all you’re going to get.

Thing is, the people on those estates have a one bus service to Hartlepool or Durham with the 24. I'm sure there would be just as much outrage if they had to catch a bus to the bus station, then change.
And, the way the 3 way Interworking works, the 24 needs to make up just under 90 minutes from end to end. When the 22 went to hartlepool, that was the one that served the estates.

(17 Sep 2021, 7:11 am)Storx wrote Personally I don't see the issue with the 24. There won't be many people going from Durham to Hartlepool throughout and unless the whole villages get on in Ludworth etc then there's no demand for a quicker service really. In a similar way there won't be many people going from Blackhall to Durham.

imo. it's more for serving.

Oakeside - Durham
Oakeside - Peterlee
Shotton Collery and all the villages inbetween service - Durham
Peterlee - Hartlepool

Shotton Collery and Durham have a quicker service on the 22 to Peterlee so it's only the 4 small villages Sherburn, Shadwell, Ludworth and Haswell and there's probably 5k between them (in other areas of the country they wouldn't have a service at all especially on evenings and Sundays).

You could bring that 25 back, but the 24 wouldn't be running in the evenings so that's the compromise and the estates of Peterlee, which there's more passengers anyway wouldn't have a direct service to Hartlepool.

Service 25 was a shit service from Arriva, I live at Oakerside area, it didn’t come round half the time, the bus did the fast 22 from Durham to Hartlepool before it started going via Peterlee, and changed to a 25 from Hartlepool to old shotton, the 25 was timed from Hartlepool to be in front of the 24 to relieve the congested normal 24, but the 22 used to be always late from Durham and in turn made the 25 late and behind the 24 to Peterlee then half the time the 25 was turned at Peterlee bus station and not taking passengers between bus station at Oakerside who ended up taking taxis, same thing when the GNE X7 started to do the loop south of Peterlee, used to get to Peterlee bus station late and got turned around because it came late at Sunderland from the X6, I think the x7 was just used to keep the X6 on time between Hartlepool and Sunderland


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(17 Sep 2021, 9:21 am)BusLoverMum wrote Thing is, the people on those estates have a one bus service to Hartlepool or Durham with the 24. I'm sure there would be just as much outrage if they had to catch a bus to the bus station, then change.
And, the way the 3 way Interworking works, the 24 needs to make up just under 90 minutes from end to end. When the 22 went to hartlepool, that was the one that served the estates.

At Least the local estate bus will be on time and not have to relay from a bus that came from a crammed city centre miles away when passengers just want to go to there local town centre


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(17 Sep 2021, 9:14 am)Drifter60 wrote I think it’s all about perception to a certain extent, I’ve done the 24 route years back from Durham to Horden - and it felt pretty direct until it got to Peterlee Moorcock then we did an approx. 15 minute tour of housing estates in Peterlee and it just felt such a long winded route. We ended up with an added 10-15 minutes onto the journey and came out just a little bit further down Burnhope Way, a journey that would have been 2 minutes just running direct past the college. I agree Oakerside should be served, but I suppose at the minute do you put off anyone who may want to use it long distance to go from Blackhall to Durham or Ludworth to Hartlepool because actually it just feel it takes forever. 

On a wider note and a general observation from across the forum, I’m not sure if I like the whole attitude of “people should be grateful because the alternative is no service” so whatever the issues maybe the buses take too long, they don’t go where people want them to go etc. but hey be grateful it’s that or nothing as you’re a small village/estate whom doesn’t deserve decent bus services. Very low standards, as if the public should just get on with on below par services. Do we also suggest a small town shouldn’t complain about their only main supermarket because it’s that or nothing. No one else is going to open in this town as there isn’t any demand, so use the one with bad customer service and long queues because it’s all you’re going to get.

I don't disagree with you but the point is there's just probably not the demand to do the route throughout so in reality all your doing it creating a faster bus for 4 pit villages between Sherburn and Shotton Colliery to the demise of Oakerside which has more population than those 4 villages anyway.

There's no demand for 6 buses an hour between Durham and Peterlee neither so what other options are there. Decrease one of them to hourly which would likely be the 24 since the Western side is served by the 64(A) - not sure which off the top of my head, and the Eastern side is served by the 22 from Shotton with an hourly 25 which would combine with the 24 between Peterlee and Hartlepool or alternatively you'd have a Peterlee local service from Peterlee just serving Oakerside.

Personally, they're all much worse than what's there already.

The only thing that possibly would make sense is swapping the 22 and 24 around.

So the 22 does Durham to Hartlepool (fast) and the 24 does Durham to Sunderland via Peterlee and Easington with the 23 being Sunderland to Hartlepool (fast) if you can get it to work. It fixes the discussion on the Blackhall side so argubly the only 4 communities which are disadvantaged are the 4 small pit villages.

What is happening to 6301-6307, and what is happening with the Xlines X5/15 What are they getting? And 47/47A?

From the NEXUS site:

Toontour

Newcastle - Gateshead - Newcastle

Operated by Go North East

Service Withdrawn from 25/09/2021

----------

B1
Newcastle - Beamish Museum

Operated by Go North East

Service Withdrawn from 25/09/2021

(17 Sep 2021, 2:46 pm)Michael wrote From the NEXUS site:

Toontour

Newcastle - Gateshead - Newcastle

Operated by Go North East

Service Withdrawn from 25/09/2021

----------

B1
Newcastle - Beamish Museum

Operated by Go North East

Service Withdrawn from 25/09/2021

X11 is on there as well

(17 Sep 2021, 3:01 pm)Train8261 wrote X11 is on there as well

Never noticed that, its early as the leaflet says 31st October 2021.

(17 Sep 2021, 3:04 pm)Michael wrote Never noticed that, its early as the leaflet says 31st October 2021.

What was happening with the other 2 open decks which they got. Also I'd imagine the B1 won't be returning..

(17 Sep 2021, 3:15 pm)Keeiajs wrote What was happening with the other 2 open decks which they got. Also I'd imagine the B1 won't be returning..

Was the B1 even popular 
Toontour was extremely popular this year
Them other open toppers are for TT next year I'm guessing

(17 Sep 2021, 3:04 pm)Michael wrote Never noticed that, its early as the leaflet says 31st October 2021.

Is that the X11 done then,or will that be returning next year?

(17 Sep 2021, 6:34 pm)V514DFT wrote Is that the X11 done then,or will that be returning next year?

I'm guessing with the amount of times it was duplicated. I can probably take a guess and say yea

(17 Sep 2021, 7:21 pm)Train8261 wrote I'm guessing with the amount of times it was duplicated. I can probably take a guess and say yea

Wonder why its finishing early, still seems popular.

(17 Sep 2021, 7:27 pm)Michael wrote Wonder why its finishing early, still seems popular.

Would u really want to go to Scarborough in October (unless weather is nice for once)

(17 Sep 2021, 12:20 pm)Storx wrote I don't disagree with you but the point is there's just probably not the demand to do the route throughout so in reality all your doing it creating a faster bus for 4 pit villages between Sherburn and Shotton Colliery to the demise of Oakerside which has more population than those 4 villages anyway.

There's no demand for 6 buses an hour between Durham and Peterlee neither so what other options are there. Decrease one of them to hourly which would likely be the 24 since the Western side is served by the 64(A) - not sure which off the top of my head, and the Eastern side is served by the 22 from Shotton with an hourly 25 which would combine with the 24 between Peterlee and Hartlepool or alternatively you'd have a Peterlee local service from Peterlee just serving Oakerside.

Personally, they're all much worse than what's there already.

The only thing that possibly would make sense is swapping the 22 and 24 around.

So the 22 does Durham to Hartlepool (fast) and the 24 does Durham to Sunderland via Peterlee and Easington with the 23 being Sunderland to Hartlepool (fast) if you can get it to work. It fixes the discussion on the Blackhall side so argubly the only 4 communities which are disadvantaged are the 4 small pit villages.

They already had pretty much this exact arrangement a few year back where 22 went to Hartlepool via Peterlee and 24 went to Sunderland and it was not a popular decision, they were swapped round after a few years as people in the Thornley & Wheatley Hill areas wanted a service towards Sunderland and they also had the 58 to Hartlepool running hourly as well at the time (DCC contract service ran by Scarlet Band, since succeeded by the Arriva 57).

I think the current 22/23/24 arrangements are about the best you will achieve as anything else likely requires much more resources that likely won't be viable, given GNE has made some cuts to some of the local routes round Peterlee the demand for short distance town services is likely less attractive option to passengers as most hate making changes and connections especially in the bleak hole that is Peterlee Bus Station.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, what is the obsession on here with sending buses to Hartlepool?! Most of these experimental services in the last few years like the X6 Hartlepool to Sunderland, X55 to Newcastle on Saturdays or even the 230 from Hartlepool to Sunderland via Horden from Pygalls have never taken off, Hartlepool is lower down than some alternative destinations close by to some and those likely making longer journeys would take the train, whenever I've done stuff like 23 & 24 it's mostly just local traffic with most not going much further beyond Peterlee. Can't see the demand being there in 2021 for a direct near non stop bus from Durham City Centre to Hartlepool, most of the stuff in Hartlepool is in Durham City Centre or the nearby retail parks like the Arnison Centre.

(17 Sep 2021, 7:29 pm)Train8261 wrote Would u really want to go to Scarborough in October (unless weather is nice for once)

Yes, just because the weather is crap doesn't mean you can't have a good day.

As we say at work... there's no such thing as bad weather, only unsuitable clothing.

(17 Sep 2021, 7:34 pm)Michael wrote Yes, just because the weather is crap doesn't mean you can't have a good day.

As we say at work... there's no such thing as bad weather, only unsuitable clothing.

True didn't think about that. I even forgot I had a ride on the Beachcomber when it was cold raining and foggy 

(17 Sep 2021, 7:33 pm)Jimmi wrote They already had pretty much this exact arrangement a few year back where 22 went to Hartlepool via Peterlee and 24 went to Sunderland and it was not a popular decision, they were swapped round after a few years as people in the Thornley & Wheatley Hill areas wanted a service towards Sunderland and they also had the 58 to Hartlepool running hourly as well at the time (DCC contract service ran by Scarlet Band, since succeeded by the Arriva 57).

I think the current 22/23/24 arrangements are about the best you will achieve as anything else likely requires much more resources that likely won't be viable, given GNE has made some cuts to some of the local routes round Peterlee the demand for short distance town services is likely less attractive option to passengers as most hate making changes and connections especially in the bleak hole that is Peterlee Bus Station.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, what is the obsession on here with sending buses to Hartlepool?! Most of these experimental services in the last few years like the X6 Hartlepool to Sunderland, X55 to Newcastle on Saturdays or even the 230 from Hartlepool to Sunderland via Horden from Pygalls have never taken off, Hartlepool is lower down than some alternative destinations close by to some and those likely making longer journeys would take the train, whenever I've done stuff like 23 & 24 it's mostly just local traffic with most not going much further beyond Peterlee. Can't see the demand being there in 2021 for a direct near non stop bus from Durham City Centre to Hartlepool, most of the stuff in Hartlepool is in Durham City Centre or the nearby retail parks like the Arnison Centre.

Yeah that makes sense then had a feeling Thornley and Wheatley might have had something to do with it and makes sense then. 

Honestly didn't really expect many to do the whole route but the dog leg service from Durham to Sunderland via the quicker route just didn't make sense while the Hartlepool to Sunderland and Durham services took the diversions. 

Makes sense now though and agreed tbh and let's be honest it might a bit slow it's not really that bad in comparison to say GNE's town services as you mentioned.

Not surprised Arriva done it the way I said though as for someone who doesn't the area that well it definitely on paper seems most sensible.

Also why is TT B1 and X11 finishing on a Saturday. Seems a bit of an odd day doesn't it

(17 Sep 2021, 10:23 pm)Train8261 wrote Also why is TT B1 and X11 finishing on a Saturday. Seems a bit of an odd day doesn't it

I'd imagine that the company week likely starts on a Sunday, so it'll be due to finish on the Saturday so that new rotas can be followed from that Sunday. 

From memory it hasn't been quite as popular on Sundays either, so both commercially and operationally it makes sense to have one last potential big Saturday then get the new rotas etc in place for the next business week.

(17 Sep 2021, 10:37 pm)mb134 wrote I'd imagine that the company week likely starts on a Sunday, so it'll be due to finish on the Saturday so that new rotas can be followed from that Sunday. 

From memory it hasn't been quite as popular on Sundays either, so both commercially and operationally it makes sense to have one last potential big Saturday then get the new rotas etc in place for the next business week.

Ah that makes sense 
I can definitely see the X11 making a return next year

(17 Sep 2021, 7:34 pm)Michael wrote Yes, just because the weather is crap doesn't mean you can't have a good day.

As we say at work... there's no such thing as bad weather, only unsuitable clothing.

Still doesn't make it desirable enough to fill a bus.

So here's a theory (it's just a theory)

If Go North East have move the open toppers on TT because they ain't fit for the Euro Emissions plan for next year (whatever its called)

Could GNE then put the 3 open toppers over in North Shields and trial there version of Stagecoach Seasider

This is only because didn't Stagecoach lose the contract or something to run the Sightsee tour and Stagecoach moved to North Shields. Go North East then ran there own version of the Newcastle Sightsee (Now named Toontour)

(Just a theory/opinion)

Maybe they are withdrawing these services early because they need the drivers elsewhere.

Mind there isn't any mention of it on the GNE website, hopefully people don't turn up in Newcastle or Washington tomorrow expecting to go to Scarborough. It isn't even mentioned in the short notice cancellations.